Bernie!

[AlwaysHungry]

Sanders didn't do any homework in or for the DNC. Why should the DNC have any form of loyalty to him or listen to him beyond what his "now" support numbers accord him? I see occasionally here that Hillary is stealing the nomination from him. It's the other way around. He's doing any stealing there is. He wasn't even a Democrat at the beginning of this nomination process. Hillary has been paying her loyalty dues in and working inside the party for decades. She's not stealing anything from anyone on the Democratic side of the process. I won't slit a wrist if Bernie does steal the nomination, but let's be clear on what the DNC owes to Sanders--absolutely nothing. He's the Johnnie-come-lately opportunist here.

On the other hand, why should the rank-and-file Democrats have any form of loyalty to the DNC? The DNC has been selling them out for decades with corrupt and un-democratic administration of the party, and has subverted the Democratic Party platform to the point where on issues that really matter (as opposed to "wedge issues") the party is now virtually indistinguishable from the Republicans.

 

[sr71plt]

That's a different question and not one that I know very much about, so it doesn't bother me if you want to be bitter about something that may or may not have much truth attached to it. Bringing it up doesn't distract me from pointing out that Bernie has little earned right to claim any support/loyalty from the Democratic Party--the mirror image of The Trump and the Republican Party. But, once again, I don't care all that much if Bernie wins the White House--as long as someone does in the name of some other party more progressive than the Republicans (although I won't slit my wrists if that happens, either).

So, as far as I'm concerned, your "other hand," is a different, irrelevant point to the issue.

 

[Sean Renaud]

On the other hand, why should the rank-and-file Democrats have any form of loyalty to the DNC? The DNC has been selling them out for decades with corrupt and un-democratic administration of the party, and has subverted the Democratic Party platform to the point where on issues that really matter (as opposed to "wedge issues") the party is now virtually indistinguishable from the Republicans.

Because that's a fairly radicaul interpretation of the facts.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Because that's a fairly radicaul interpretation of the facts.

Not really....

Just look at ACA. Obama straight pimped Americas peachy ass out to the insurance companies and they are taking us for a dry raw dog ass fucking in the billing department until the Republicans repeal it and replace it with imaginary HC.

He could have POTUS'ed Cannabis off the shit list at any point with 78% of the public's support.

Will he do it? Fuck no the fuckers ran more raids against medical cannabis states in his first 4 years than Bush did in all 8 of his. The guy is a prison for profit dick sucking pro war on drugs Nixon fan.

Both Clintons are moderate Republicans and so is Obama. All of them Wall Streeters for Wall Street and fuck America with all it's idiot voters.

Might as well have voted for fuckin Romney

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not really....

Just look at ACA. Obama straight pimped Americas peachy ass out to the insurance companies and they are taking us for a dry raw dog ass fucking in the billing department until the Republicans repeal it and replace it with imaginary HC.

He could have POTUS'ed Cannabis off the shit list at any point with 78% of the public's support.

Will he do it? Fuck no the fuckers ran more raids against medical cannabis states in his first 4 years than Bush did in all 8 of his. The guy is a prison for profit dick sucking pro war on drugs Nixon fan.

Both Clintons are moderate Republicans and so is Obama. All of them Wall Streeters for Wall Street and fuck America with all it's idiot voters.

Might as well have voted for fuckin Romney

You keep making the mistake of thinking that Democrats are all a lot more hardcore on the socialism than they are. To say nothing of the fact that large swaths of Democrats are less "democrats" and more "Not Republican." Socially most minorities ARE conservative by comparison to America as a whole.

While I think Hillary is and Bill was left of center, the fact that they are centrists is beyond reproach. WHICH IS WHY THEY WIN ELECTIONS. Bernie and Warren are abberations.

Besides there are other issues is the world. Not all Democrats are doves, fuck Hillary but we aren't all don't fight period. In fact few Americans are.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You keep making the mistake of thinking that Democrats are all a lot more hardcore on the socialism than they are.

Oh it must be all that good talk they always put up right before they get into office and flush every fucking word of it.

Like homeslice said.....why should we have any loyalty? How many times you gonna buy "hope and change" from these mother fuckers?

To say nothing of the fact that large swaths of Democrats are less "democrats" and more "Not Republican."

Mmmmm in Red states yes. Currently however I think most of the blue states are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY left of the Corporate dick sucks who are running the DNC right now. Thus sanders absolutely CRUSHING (R)odham in blue states.

While I think Hillary is and Bill was left of center, the fact that they are centrists is beyond reproach. WHICH IS WHY THEY WIN ELECTIONS. Bernie and Warren are abberations.

Left of cold war era American center, I'd buy.

2016 center? Not so much and that aberration factor is fading by the day.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

While I think Hillary is and Bill was left of center, the fact that they are centrists is beyond reproach. WHICH IS WHY THEY WIN ELECTIONS.

Au contraire. Bill won because he was personally likable, like Reagan. Not "entitled." He also had some decent impulses, like the Oslo Accords, but after the blowjob scandal he was too chicken to act on them further.

Hillary is an ambitious slut, available to the highest bidder. And the reason "centrists" like Obama win is simply extortion: "vote for me, or you'll get the Republican mad dog." The Democratic Party went through a period when it represented the principles of the American Revolution, as embodied in the preamble to the constitution. Those were the years from FDR to JFK. Since then, they have steadily been reverting to what they were originally, the party of the confederacy.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Oh it must be all that good talk they always put up right before they get into office and flush every fucking word of it.

Like homeslice said.....why should we have any loyalty? How many times you gonna buy "hope and change" from these mother fuckers?



Mmmmm in Red states yes. Currently however I think most of the blue states are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY left of the Corporate dick sucks who are running the DNC right now. Thus sanders absolutely CRUSHING (R)odham in blue states.



Left of cold war era American center, I'd buy.

2016 center? Not so much and that aberration factor is fading by the day.

I don't think the majority of them talk about it overmuch. The only think I remember Obama saying was the Bush Tax cuts would end and well he clearly didn't have a choice there. Otherwise he was never preaching much about the system as a whole vs unfucking the recession.

As for Gays he "evolved" (which is code for he saw what was happening anyway and decided to get on board.).

He was never with you weed or us on drugs in the broader sense and never pretended to be.

While ACA isn't UHC I got what I wanted or at least what I expected out of Obama. I can complain he wasn't super man but not that I didn't get my money's worth.

I don't buy that most of those blue states are nearly as socialist as you are giving them credit for.

Au contraire. Bill won because he was personally likable, like Reagan. Not "entitled." He also had some decent impulses, like the Oslo Accords, but after the blowjob scandal he was too chicken to act on them further.

Hillary is an ambitious slut, available to the highest bidder. And the reason "centrists" like Obama win is simply extortion: "vote for me, or you'll get the Republican mad dog." The Democratic Party went through a period when it represented the principles of the American Revolution, as embodied in the preamble to the constitution. Those were the years from FDR to JFK. Since then, they have steadily been reverting to what they were originally, the party of the confederacy.

The blowjob scandal was on his way out. Anything he was gonna do would have been done by then. As for the rest of that the Dems outdate the Confederacy for starters but yes fiscally they've drifted steadily to the right, not so much socially though.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I don't think the majority of them talk about it overmuch.

We must have watched two totally different Obamanators then because I heard all about hope and change for all of us non elites.

He was never with you weed or us on drugs in the broader sense and never pretended to be.

Right...back to being further right wing than 78% of the country on another topic.

While ACA isn't UHC I got what I wanted or at least what I expected out of Obama. I can complain he wasn't super man but not that I didn't get my money's worth.

LMFAO!

You do realized we're getting fucked significantly harder for HC than any other citizenry on the planet right?

I don't buy that most of those blue states are nearly as socialist as you are giving them credit for.

Then why is a democratic socialist fucking SLAUGHTERING the DNC/Walls St. puppet so fucking badly in them?

The bluer the state the worse (R)odham is doing.


Either Clinton is further right than your saying or the blue states are further left.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Oh I heard hope and change just as I hear move forward and fighting for our future and a dozen other catch phrases. In the meat of his debates and interviews I never heard anything that convinced me he was a lefty.

If it was 78% of the population wanted legal weed and an end to the Drug War it would have happened. Hell we in California held a ballot measure for it and got smacked down in 2008. (I personally blame Obama for that one but meh, he couldn't have known.)

Yes I realize we are getting fucked harder for ACA than any other nation on the planet. I also know it is better than what we had in 2008 and that is the only metric that counts in the real world. Obama could and should have fought harder but the reality is he was going to take what a 59 man majority in Congress gave him or we wouldn't discuss it again until 2030 or so if Hillarycare/Newtcare from the early 90's was any example.

He's not. He's getting beat rather handily. As I've stated before Hillary will win, and won't NEED the Super Delegates. They aren't necessary to putting down a socialist in the United States.

We'll see if you're right on the bluer the state. You don't get much more loyal than NY and CA and I'd bet both go HRC.

Hillary is exactly where I say, just slightly to the left of center. Like this

Obama-Hillary-Romney-Bush

Sanders winning states (in a two man race) really doesn't mean a whole lot of anything other than Hillary isn't actually annointed by god.

But back to the original point somewhat. There is no good reason for any individual or even group of individuals to remain loyal to the Democrats (or any party) but this concept that they've sold us collectively up the river pretends that we are a lot more alike than we care to admit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If it was 78% of the population wanted legal weed and an end to the Drug War it would have happened.

78% support some level of legalization.

Nearly half the country has, 23 states, take into account CBD/Low THC states and you got 11 more + DC.

With several states up for rec/medical laws up this year.

Feds are going to pretend to the bitter end tho because billions in funding depend on the war on pot.

Hell we in California held a ballot measure for it and got smacked down in 2008.

We have them all the time.

They almost all fail because everyone fighting over money.

This last one after what 20 years without any regs? We got some...and they are so insane trying to make everyone happy CA ain't regulating shit.

That doesn't mean we don't want the Feds to quit being total scum bags about it.

Yes I realize we are getting fucked harder for ACA than any other nation on the planet. I also know it is better than what we had in 2008

An improvement yea....

I wouldn't call it getting our dollars worth though.

He's not. He's getting beat rather handily.

He's BARELY losing as far as the vote goes and that's because (R)odham did great in the south. The only reason she's so far ahead is because all the supers are backing her.

As I've stated before Hillary will win, and won't NEED the Super Delegates. They aren't necessary to putting down a socialist in the United States.

We'll see if you're right on the bluer the state. You don't get much more loyal than NY and CA and I'd bet both go HRC.

That's only a certainty because the DNC is as corrupt as the day is long and Sachs owns those supers and they will nearly all vote for (R)odham even if Sanders destroys her in NY/CA.

NY/CA are the big questions.

CA will either be one hell of a fight between the liberal north voting for sanders and the conservative south voting Clinton eeking her by the hair on her chinny chin chin, or maybe LA won't be retarded and Sanders will crush her like he has in other deep blue states with another 70+% win. But CA is anything but in the bag for Clinton. SF/north state are just as if not bigger Sanders fans.

NY, most of the polls I saw say (R)odham wins by 3-8% and only one that I saw on the list had Sanders winning.

Now I think that one actually will be a knock down drag out fight and if (R)odham has a chance at a big shut out it will be NY, not CA.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Poll: Sanders ahead in Wisconsin

From The Hill reporting on a Fox Poll

Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders is leading front-runner Hillary Clinton by 5 percentage points in Wisconsin, according to a new Fox Business poll.

Sanders has 48 percent among the state’s likely Democratic voters, while Clinton lags slightly behind with 43 percent.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

CBS - Wisconsin Primary (3/29 to 4/1)
Bernie Sanders: 49%
Hillary Clinton: 47%

 

[JackLuis]

California governor signs $15-an-hour minimum wage into law

With any luck the wage will increase faster than the value of the dollar erodes.

Governor Jerry Brown on Monday signed into a law a bill raising California’s minimum wage from $10 to $15 an hour by the year 2023, making the nation’s most-populous state the first to boost pay to that level for the working poor.

The move marks the culmination of a deal Brown brokered with labor leaders and state Democratic leaders and puts California, home to one of the world’s biggest economies, at the forefront of U.S. states and cities that have moved to surpass the federal minimum wage, which has remained at $7.25 an hour since 2009.

Say,"Thank you Bernie."

 

[sr71plt]

Why? What did Sanders have to do with it?

I declare some of you Bernie nuts think that life didn't start until Bernie appeared and decided he'd be a Democrat and God this year.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah I'm not sure why I'm supposed to thank Bernie for the actions of a man we elected a before the general population was even really aware of Bernie.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Although I would not say that I myself am "feeling the Bern," I would say that the visible show of public support has probably encouraged some politicians to publicly embrace FDR-style policies, as opposed to the 'blowjobs for bankers" approach of Obama and the DNC.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Some thoughts about this and other elections.

Why do so many white, working-class voters vote against their interests at times? In other words, why do they vote Republican?

1. Democratic stupidity on wedge issues that are proven losers, such as gun control. Sorry, folks, but many people don't trust that future governments can be trust with a monopoly on force. On that issue, they're right, even if on balance, the Democrats are still the better party. Governments are made up of people, people fuck up, and if you don't trust individuals with weapons, why the hell would you trust institutions with a track record of violence, abuse, war crimes, genocide, etc.?

That said, I fear the GOP far more as potential tyrants than any Democrats, and I find it ironic that the ones who most want to disarm citizens are the ones who are least likely to abuse that monopoly. Still, it's a prudent man or woman who looks ahead and human nature is immutable short of macro evolution, so it's wise to avoid crazy ideas like gun bans.

2. Blue-collar workers worried about the environmental movement's effects on their jobs. To you and me, it's a no-brainer that climate change and pollution are real threats to our future. To someone whose job seems endangered by the EPA, however, it's easy to buy something that might keep them employed.

3. Failure to paint the Republicans effectively in economic terms as the party that wants to kill jobs, lower wages, and cause their sick relatives to not get proper health care. That's the line of attack that should be followed. Also, failure to hit them harder on failing to provide benefits to veterans who have been in these wars that they've fought for us under Republican administrations.

4. These government shutdowns. The human and financial costs of them need to be presented in real terms, ideas that the voters can see how it affects their daily lives. Furloughed defense workers, soldiers endangered, national security harmed. That sort of thing. The very fact that so many Republican veterans haven't turned against Ted Cruz despite his role there is symptomatic of this problem.

5. Too much focus on the GOP tax cuts' impact on the debt, instead of connecting the Republicans' lack of fiscal conservatism to the rich cheating on their taxes already, painting them as the welfare queens that they really are, and showing how flat and sales taxes are bad for the middle class and working poor. Too many believe that these would cut their taxes and simplify what they see as a rotten and unfair system. It IS rotten and unfair, but not for the reasons that they believe. These voters need to be shown in regular ad spots that tax cuts for the rich are at THEIR expense.

6. Inattention to men's issues. The war on women is real, but so is the war on working-class men. Both are harmed by the radical social and economic agenda of the far right, and those bemoaning what is done to American men often have an easy scapegoat in feminists, given to them courtesy of the religious, evangelical right. This needs to be driven home, constantly. For instance, equal pay for equal work HELPS men, because wives have more to bring home to the household, easing the burden on the whole family and ex-wives need less alimony if they're paid more. This is not just a women's issue. It's a men's issue, too.

7. Perceived hostility to small business. THIS, my friends, is the silent killer of Democratic chances in many mid-term elections and in swing states in Presidential years. As long as the Republicans can paint tax cuts for the rich as friendly to small business, due to incorporation law and the use of personal income as financial capital, it is very damaging to the Democratic side. This has to be addressed, such as showing how single-payer would lift the burden off the small business owners and how forcing Big Business to follow the tax and pollution laws will remove key advantages that they have over small.

8. Trade deals that are often job killers. Coupled with recent failures to stand up for unions effectively and failures to fight for minimum wage hikes, along with immigration issues (though realistically, the GOP is on the wrong side of that), the GOP can often sell the Lou Dobbs, Donald Trump populist angle to hard hat Reagan Democrat and independent types.

9. Campaign finance laws, bribery, and the incestuous Wall Street connections of the DLC types. Face it, the cozier the Clintonistas become with Wall Street, Walmart, etc., the harder it is to believe them when they declare themselves champions of the working man and woman. The more they take corporate money, the more corrupt BOTH parties seem to be, until it seems harder to know who to trust on these things. Republicans of the Trump set can use smoke and mirrors to exploit this and appear as fighters for the people.

10. Failure to hit home and hard on the real threat to senior citizens, the very most Republican voters of all, from GOP plans to axe their necessary "entitlement" programs. These people are often even told that the ACA was a threat to Medicare, that the programs are going bankrupt, and that it's their duty to do without so that America doesn't collapse from a national debt that even Ronald Reagan rightly observed has nothing to do with "entitlements."

11. Closely connected to this is the constant portayal of "welfare queens," "low-information voters," "junkies," and people sponging off the system. While this backfired with Romney, it was only because he was too blunt about whom he meant. There are still a lot of folk who believe that if you're on food stamps, whether WIC, SNAP, etc., that you're lazy. In fact, of course, most recipients are from the underpaid working poor. This point needs to be constantly made. You want to pay for less public assistance? Raise wages. We're paying for those lower wages through our taxes.
12. National security issues. Despite the horrible track record of a needless invasion of Iraq, ballooning the naitonal debt, and despite the fact that the vast majority of foreign, Muslim and Christian, refugees are just hard-working, decent folk who want to escape, the GOP is continuing to agitate through Trump and Cruz for anti-Islamic harassment, exclusion (unless you're a rich donor to Trump, of course), and oppression against people are actually so against ISIS that they are FLEEING from them! This point and Bush's telling failure to get bin Laden when Obama succeeded should be pointed time and again.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I agree with much of your analysis. This one needs more work:

2. Blue-collar workers worried about the environmental movement's effects on their jobs. To you and me, it's a no-brainer that climate change and pollution are real threats to our future. To someone whose job seems endangered by the EPA, however, it's easy to buy something that might keep them employed.

This is more complicated than your explanation would suggest. There are many common-sense ways of cleaning up pollution, but they tend to be energy-intensive. The "green" crowd insists that we must use less energy. They were insisting it long before climate change came along. They have a romantic vision of a gloriously primitive, feudal sort of society, along the lines of the American Confederacy. Now, they will say that they don't like the slavery part, but they love the agrarian, low-tech side of it -- which is inextricably connected to the slavery.

The "green" movement rose from the ashes of the Eugenics movement, which was discredited in the public mind by its association with the Nazis. It was re-packaged as environmentalism. The big cheese of Eugenics, Julian Huxley, was a founding member of the World Wildlife Fund, the original "green" organization, along with Prince Philip of the UK and Prince Berhard of the Netherlands, both of whom had their own flirtations with Nazism. They complain about overpopulation in all the nations where people have dark complexions.

This doesn't mean that pollution is good, or that there are not perfectly legitimate environmental issues. But it's complicated and rife with hidden agendas, and blue collar workers have a nose for that sort of thing.

 

[JackLuis]

Why? What did Sanders have to do with it?

I declare some of you Bernie nuts think that life didn't start until Bernie appeared and decided he'd be a Democrat and God this year.

Yeah I'm not sure why I'm supposed to thank Bernie for the actions of a man we elected a before the general population was even really aware of Bernie.

Do you two think that if Bernie hadn't raise the $15/hr issue that anyone would have taken it seriously? Even the Hillary was pushing a lot lower increase, when she had to take a stand because Bernie shamed her into it.

Gov Moonbeam at least took the opportunity to do something, even though it will take seven years to get there.

If you hadn't heard of Bernie before last year, you haven't been paying attention to politics.

 

[sr71plt]

The $15/hour wage was being discussed and worked on before your God Bernie, a seventy-four-year-old Jewish socialist from a miniscule state who decided he wanted to be a Democrat rather than a no-party-dues-paying independent and put forth pie-in-the-sky proposals he doesn't have a hope of getting passed or paid for even though they go over great with clueless wishful-thinking fantasy voters, decided to try to steal the Democratic nomination for president and has folks on this forum cheering each time he reaches or exceeds parity in some small state's primary even though it, in fact, just makes him get behinder the aheader it looks to clueless fantasy voters like he gets to landing the nomination.

It will be fun to see what god you pick after this one is deflated with the pin of reality.

 

[JackLuis]

The $15/hour wage was being discussed and worked on before your God Bernie, a seventy-four-year-old Jewish socialist from a miniscule state who decided he wanted to be a Democrat rather than a no-party-dues-paying independent and put forth pie-in-the-sky proposals he doesn't have a hope of getting passed or paid for even though they go over great with clueless wishful-thinking fantasy voters, decided to try to steal the Democratic nomination for president and has folks on this forum cheering each time he reaches or exceeds parity in some small state's primary even though it, in fact, just makes him get behinder the aheader it looks to clueless fantasy voters like he gets to landing the nomination.

It will be fun to see what god you pick after this one is deflated with the pin of reality.

And just who was discussing $15/hr, wasn't Hillary, wasn't Schumer, wasn't Obama or any other Democratic Dues Paying shill. It certainly wasn't the Rethuglicans, so who is responsible for the $15/hr meme?

Your last line I read as 'deflated by the prick of reality,' I was thinking of Trump.

I don't think that Bernie is a god. I just believe him to be a responsible politician who considers what good for the masses before he counts the scheckels.

 

[BotanyBoy]

decided he wanted to be a Democrat rather than a no-party-dues-paying independen

What a piece of shit he is for not being a Wall St. mouthpiece like Hillary.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Another overwhelming victory for our campaign in Wisconsin!

BND - Moments ago the news networks called another state for our political revolution, and it’s a big one: Wisconsin.

The corporate media and political establishment keep counting us out, but we keep winning states and doing so by large margins. If we can keep this up, we’re going to shock them all and win this nomination.

Contribute $250 to our campaign tonight and we are going to keep winning states by large margins until we win this nomination and take our country back from the billionaire class.

Wyoming caucuses in just four days and New York votes two weeks from today, and you can bet the financial elite of this country won’t give up without a fight. They’re going to throw everything they can at us. But if we stand together, we’re going to keep winning.

Tonight kicked off the most important three week stretch of the campaign, and we did it with another overwhelming victory. If we can keep our momentum going through the states that vote and caucus over the next three weeks, we’re going to win this election.

We're doing so well because you keep standing with our campaign. Make a $250 contribution now and help us win Wyoming on Saturday and New York on April 19.

Amazing win tonight. It wouldn’t have happened without you. That’s the absolute truth.

In solidarity,

Bernie "Feel my Bern SexyAlison" Sanders

 

[Sean Renaud]

No you really aren't. And I want you to win but here on earth you're desperately hoping the big boys come to your aid and I don't know if we will. Only that I'll do my part.