Bernie!

[underguy1]

They will be eliminated when employers are forced to pay more than they think the jobs are worth. Some examples: Pin-setting. At one time, bowling alleys paid people to set the pins by hand and paid low wages to those doing it. Now, this job has been eliminated because it is cheaper to buy automatic equipment.

Bill-pushers: At one time these people were paid very low wages for hand-delivering circulars. They don't anymore, because it's cheaper to have these deliveries made by the post office.

Farm labor: This used to be labor-intensive but now, with high minimum wages, farmers are using automated equipment.

In all these cases, the work was done better, generally speaking, by hand but those who did it have been replaced, largely because of high minimum wages.

I expect most people can come up with other examples.

That's a different issue. Technology will continue to change the nature of work and the economy no matter what the minimum wage is.

Increasing the minimum wage will drive out some marginal jobs but the increased aggregate demand will create more jobs in other areas of the economy.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That's a different issue. Technology will continue to change the nature of work and the economy no matter what the minimum wage is.

Economically incentivizing it has it's effects though. They drive it harder and faster than probably any other thing could.

Very few things motivate bidnizz like the bottom line does.

Increasing the minimum wage will drive out some marginal jobs but the increased aggregate demand will create more jobs in other areas of the economy.

LMFAO! Not for the masses of unskilled shitheads it wont.

 

[underguy1]

They will be eliminated when employers are forced to pay more than they think the jobs are worth. Some examples: Pin-setting. At one time, bowling alleys paid people to set the pins by hand and paid low wages to those doing it. Now, this job has been eliminated because it is cheaper to buy automatic equipment.

Bill-pushers: At one time these people were paid very low wages for hand-delivering circulars. They don't anymore, because it's cheaper to have these deliveries made by the post office.

Farm labor: This used to be labor-intensive but now, with high minimum wages, farmers are using automated equipment.

In all these cases, the work was done better, generally speaking, by hand but those who did it have been replaced, largely because of high minimum wages.

I expect most people can come up with other examples.

That's a different issue. Technology will continue to change the nature of work and the economy no matter what the minimum wage is.

Increasing the minimum wage will drive out some marginal jobs but the increased aggregate demand will create more jobs in other areas of the economy.

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

I guess you haven't been around much to see what the economy does with across-the-board pay hikes.

I know from my experience & those of friends & family that the more you make (hourly, daily, weekly, however), the more you can afford to spend.

Not everyone can spend a ton on an expensive meal every day, & even some who have increased wages may tend towards cheaper "fast food" & what have you, but go there more often or order more food per trip.

Regardless, whichever one they do, that is more that establishment will make, & therefore can afford to pay their workers (again, hourly, daily. etc.), which is more that person can spend...It's a BIG CIRCLE!

But the GOOD kind of BIG CIRCLE, not the kind where we get a second President from the same family, or the kind where you are counting Trump's always-working brain cells.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post

They will be eliminated when employers are forced to pay more than they think the jobs are worth. Some examples: Pin-setting. At one time, bowling alleys paid people to set the pins by hand and paid low wages to those doing it. Now, this job has been eliminated because it is cheaper to buy automatic equipment.

Bill-pushers: At one time these people were paid very low wages for hand-delivering circulars. They don't anymore, because it's cheaper to have these deliveries made by the post office.

Farm labor: This used to be labor-intensive but now, with high minimum wages, farmers are using automated equipment.

In all these cases, the work was done better, generally speaking, by hand but those who did it have been replaced, largely because of high minimum wages.

I expect most people can come up with other examples.

That's a different issue. Technology will continue to change the nature of work and the economy no matter what the minimum wage is.

Increasing the minimum wage will drive out some marginal jobs but the increased aggregate demand will create more jobs in other areas of the economy.

That may be so, but the people who work at the jobs I mentioned do so because they are unable to get or keep anything better. If they could, they would do it. So that means hundreds of thousands of people would be permanently unemployed.

 

[JackLuis]

That may be so, but the people who work at the jobs I mentioned do so because they are unable to get or keep anything better. If they could, they would do it. So that means hundreds of thousands of people would be permanently unemployed.

You mean kinda like a Rethuglican recession?

Cause/effect, so how do we adapt to that and get people back working? Education, vocational training perhaps. Maybe the States could start up employment development programs to retrain our youth, maybe we could look at the future needs of our industries and start training more of the needed skills rather than importing 'guest workers' to suppress the wages of the American who invested in an education and need money to pay off the Banksters, who borrow money at 3/4%, from the Fed, and loan it at 14% to our students?

Maybe we should stop putting up private prisons and start sentencing the "near well doers" to WPA style programs to learn new construction skills or heavy equipment driving, or any one of a number of skills needed to replace Flint's fucked up water system?

Maybe we should look at the problems as opportunities to progress our society?

 

[phrodeau]

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post

They will be eliminated when employers are forced to pay more than they think the jobs are worth. Some examples: Pin-setting. At one time, bowling alleys paid people to set the pins by hand and paid low wages to those doing it. Now, this job has been eliminated because it is cheaper to buy automatic equipment.

Bill-pushers: At one time these people were paid very low wages for hand-delivering circulars. They don't anymore, because it's cheaper to have these deliveries made by the post office.

Farm labor: This used to be labor-intensive but now, with high minimum wages, farmers are using automated equipment.

In all these cases, the work was done better, generally speaking, by hand but those who did it have been replaced, largely because of high minimum wages.

I expect most people can come up with other examples.



That may be so, but the people who work at the jobs I mentioned do so because they are unable to get or keep anything better. If they could, they would do it. So that means hundreds of thousands of people would be permanently unemployed.

Pin setters do a better job than machines? Bill pushers do a better job than postal carriers?

 

[JackLuis]

Sanders’ campaign continues despite Obama’s support for Clinton

He may have been beaten by Hillary Clinton but Bernie Sanders is still on the campaign trail.

Despite both President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden declaring their support for Clinton, Sanders has only committed to joining his rival in fighting against Donald Trump.

After a series of big losses on Tuesday that made Clinton the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party, Sanders spoke to supporters in the District of Columbia ahead of the primary there next Tuesday, the last nominating contest of the year

Nice to see Bernie fighting to the bitter end for his beliefs. What with over a million votes not counted yet in California. He can still make a difference in Philly.

One aspect of this story I found interesting is that it comes from Euro News, not the American LSM, who all are Hillary boosters, except Fox. I've sen this more and more in news aggregators like Raw Story. Instead of using the feeds from the American press, they are shifting to foreign press stories, that seem to value journalism more that the lackeys of the Establishment Dark Lords.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Maybe the States could start up employment development programs to retrain our youth,

Maybe the states could get the fuck out of peoples way with all their stupid rich people protecting regulations that are there just to regulate everyone out of all the markets giving the elites total ownership.

I'm not saying totally deregulate but holy fucking shit some states (like CA) could REALLY stand to back the fuck up off the control freak, market limiting/protecting/micromanaging and arbitrary cost incurring just for the sake revenue generation buushit.

EPA, glad they are out to protect the environment but in a lot of ways they've turned in to the US's goon squad of extortion. Got an extra inch of rain this year? 300,000 dollar a day fine every day your farm/home is here on these suddenly protected wetlands.

Got all your permits to damn that creek up for a stock pond? Don't care 25,000 dollars a day anyhow just because we can.

We've got to stop doing that shit........or the economy is not going to get better.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Pin setters do a better job than machines? Bill pushers do a better job than postal carriers?

Yes and yes. In case of malfunction, the hand pin-setter can quickly correct it, which a machine cannot do. Consumers actually look at circulars left on their doors but they simply discard the wad of junk left by postal carriers.

 

[underguy1]

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post

They will be eliminated when employers are forced to pay more than they think the jobs are worth. Some examples: Pin-setting. At one time, bowling alleys paid people to set the pins by hand and paid low wages to those doing it. Now, this job has been eliminated because it is cheaper to buy automatic equipment.

Bill-pushers: At one time these people were paid very low wages for hand-delivering circulars. They don't anymore, because it's cheaper to have these deliveries made by the post office.

Farm labor: This used to be labor-intensive but now, with high minimum wages, farmers are using automated equipment.

In all these cases, the work was done better, generally speaking, by hand but those who did it have been replaced, largely because of high minimum wages.

I expect most people can come up with other examples.



That may be so, but the people who work at the jobs I mentioned do so because they are unable to get or keep anything better. If they could, they would do it. So that means hundreds of thousands of people would be permanently unemployed.

No that's a logical fallacy. The demand for labour would shift to other areas of the economy. As it has done since the so called industrial revolution.

Demand is the driver.

 

[underguy1]

You mean kinda like a Rethuglican recession?

Cause/effect, so how do we adapt to that and get people back working? Education, vocational training perhaps. Maybe the States could start up employment development programs to retrain our youth, maybe we could look at the future needs of our industries and start training more of the needed skills rather than importing 'guest workers' to suppress the wages of the American who invested in an education and need money to pay off the Banksters, who borrow money at 3/4%, from the Fed, and loan it at 14% to our students?

Maybe we should stop putting up private prisons and start sentencing the "near well doers" to WPA style programs to learn new construction skills or heavy equipment driving, or any one of a number of skills needed to replace Flint's fucked up water system?

Maybe we should look at the problems as opportunities to progress our society?

A government jobs guarantee. Federally funded, locally run. Full time work at a living wage for anyone who wants one.

 

[phrodeau]

Yes and yes. In case of malfunction, the hand pin-setter can quickly correct it, which a machine cannot do. Consumers actually look at circulars left on their doors but they simply discard the wad of junk left by postal carriers.

Never mind that there's all sorts of human error with hand pin-setters that you don't get with mechanical ones.

 

[underguy1]

"I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it, than something I don't want and get it." -Eugene Debs

 

[JackLuis]

Democrats Will Learn All the Wrong Lessons From Brush With Bernie

Years ago, over many beers in a D.C. bar, a congressional aide colorfully described the House of Representatives, where he worked.
It's "435 heads up 435 asses," he said.

I thought of that person yesterday, while reading the analyses of Hillary Clinton's victories Tuesday night. The arrival of the first female presidential nominee was undoubtedly a huge moment in American history and something even the supporters of Bernie Sanders should recognize as significant and to be celebrated. But the Washington media's assessment of how we got there was convoluted and self-deceiving.

This was no ordinary primary race, not a contest between warring factions within the party establishment, á la Obama-Clinton in '08 or even Gore-Bradley in '00. This was a barely quelled revolt that ought to have sent shock waves up and down the party, especially since the Vote of No Confidence overwhelmingly came from the next generation of voters. Yet editorialists mostly drew the opposite conclusion.

The classic example was James Hohmann's piece in the Washington Post, titled, "Primary wins show Hillary Clinton needs the left less than pro-Sanders liberals think."

Matt Taibbi has a way of cutting to the chase. In the article he points out that the establishment thinks that the Bernie Bro's will put down their pitch forks and torches and calmly get in step with Hillary and the Establishment. If they don't start making nice with Sanders supporters, they run the risk of fucking the country with Trumpinistas!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Never mind that there's all sorts of human error with hand pin-setters that you don't get with mechanical ones.

Have you ever set pins by had? I have, and I don't mean I crawled out onto the lane and paced the wooden pins on circles that were painted there for that purpose. I and my coworkers placed the ball on a return ramp and picked up the knocked-down pins and set them in a rack. After the second ball had been rolled, we would use a mechanical device to sweep all the pins from the lane, drop the in the rack and lower the rack to the wooden lane where it would deposit the pins upright on the pre-arranged places. If, for whatever reason, a pin would fall over, we were able to pick it up and put it into place. If a ball didn't make it back to the ball rack and rolled back to us, we could correct that malfunction too.

Could a fully automatic pin-setter do that?

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

Have you ever set pins by had? I have, and I don't mean I crawled out onto the lane and paced the wooden pins on circles that were painted there for that purpose. I and my coworkers placed the ball on a return ramp and picked up the knocked-down pins and set them in a rack. After the second ball had been rolled, we would use a mechanical device to sweep all the pins from the lane, drop the in the rack and lower the rack to the wooden lane where it would deposit the pins upright on the pre-arranged places. If, for whatever reason, a pin would fall over, we were able to pick it up and put it into place. If a ball didn't make it back to the ball rack and rolled back to us, we could correct that malfunction too.

Could a fully automatic pin-setter do that?

This is off-topic & (regardless) cyclical.

It is the reason Morello joined Springsteen & you don't hear from RATM anymore... All machines were created by one-or-more human(s), so any job a machine does that puts a human out of work, they literally have 1 or 2 of their fellow man to thank for that.

I'm no fan of outsourcing to other countries (let alone continents), but at least those people don't lose their jobs b/c their best friend they watch the Super Bowl with taught a couple of hunks of metal how do to it instead.

 

[phrodeau]

Have you ever set pins by had? I have, and I don't mean I crawled out onto the lane and paced the wooden pins on circles that were painted there for that purpose. I and my coworkers placed the ball on a return ramp and picked up the knocked-down pins and set them in a rack. After the second ball had been rolled, we would use a mechanical device to sweep all the pins from the lane, drop the in the rack and lower the rack to the wooden lane where it would deposit the pins upright on the pre-arranged places. If, for whatever reason, a pin would fall over, we were able to pick it up and put it into place. If a ball didn't make it back to the ball rack and rolled back to us, we could correct that malfunction too.

Could a fully automatic pin-setter do that?

Then you were a machine-assisted pin-setter. I thought we were discussing hand pin-setters.

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

Then you were a machine-assisted pin-setter. I thought we were discussing hand pin-setters.

I thought we were discussing the rightful next President.

 

[Beco]

Bernie is so weird....i dont know, its not over yet? Fight at the convention? for what?

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

Bernie is so weird....i dont know, its not over yet? Fight at the convention? for what?

Bernie is weird regarding lots of things (most of which Conan has covered well), but it isn't over yet... Non-physical fight at convention would be fine & make sense, & I for one would like it even more if a third (4th, 5th) candidate was involved.

 

[JackLuis]

California Counts Millions Of Provisional And Mail-In Ballots, Counties Flip For Bernie And Nine More Superdelegates Drop Clinton

It ain't over 'til they count the last ballot. Hillary can gloat if she wants to, but let's see what the Supers do on July 25th.

Latest polls show Clinton leading Trump by 3.8%
Bernie leading Trump by 10.4%.

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

California Counts Millions Of Provisional And Mail-In Ballots, Counties Flip For Bernie And Nine More Superdelegates Drop Clinton

It ain't over 'til they count the last ballot. Hillary can gloat if she wants to, but let's see what the Supers do on July 25th.

Latest polls show Clinton leading Trump by 3.8%
Bernie leading Trump by 10.4%.

If they're Super, Bernie. If they take the Hil, Super-Stupid.

 

[urguyscott]

I have yet to see anything on here truthful about what B. H. Obama has done in his political life that has done any good for the people of the U. S. or the world. He just gave another of his "written by" speeches where he ran down the country and its people. He hates the U. S. and its people and has never made any effort to hide that fact. I see people quoting facts and figures given out by his administration and when pressed they say "oh, someone else made that statement, not the president, or he misspoke, or what he meant was.... Lies are lies. Robbery is robbery. Treason is treason. And some fools on here say "the media said...." as if the Joseph Goebbels of the press are real reporters. And now they think Clinton or Sanders or Trump will be better. Man have I got some swamp land for you.

Look at the countries that Sanders and Obama and Clinton point to as being the type they want us to be. Like Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, China, Iran, Russia, Vietnam, Greece,etc. How great they are, how happy their people are. Why look at all the happy people in Mexico and South American. Why would they leave their paradise to come to a rotten country like ours unless their countries are even worst? Nah, that can't be. And of course a two class society like our beloved leaders want for us is perfect. The top elite like Clinton and Obama and the other royalist get rich, while the people get taxed and poorer. That is the way the right of Divine Leadership works. It worked in the Dark Ages so it will work now. You tax the business and in any business they have what is called overhead which they pass on in the price of their service or goods to the public who pays for any increase in taxes. The government at the same time, because most top officials are either in the pocket or own the top businesses make sure there are loop holes to help out the rich like the jerks in Hollywood, etc. who you know wouldn't give money to Clinton or Obama unless they got something out of it. Or you control business like in Communists and Fascists states by the people in Government. No company in China is run by the people, but by party members. Air quality and other environmental concerns and work safety and product safety mean nothing when they are controlled by the corrupt rich who also control the government. Look at little Princess Nancy of San Francisco and the Cattle Thief Senator of Nevada. Both have long ties with the Chinese, which means the Communists Government. Clinton sells out to the Wall Street Corrupt and to foreign governments for a buck. Obama, Clinton and Sanders want the kind of corrupt government that Chicago and Detroit are famous for and has no respect for human rights, civil rights, equal rights, women's rights, etc. Their record shows it. What is really sad is not that we have no choice this election (for Trump is a Clinton follower and puppet. The only man or woman in the entire nation she can have a chance of beating even in a crooked election) so we will lose more of our freedom, let the black shirts bully the people, divide the nation, and sell out the world to the dictators. No raising the wage (especially in business's whose jobs were designed for part time workers like retired and students) will only cause those people to lose their jobs. Look at what happened to jobs that corrupt unions forced out of business by driving the cost of doing business too high. The business and jobs disappear. Some of the fools on here say "Oh, it will create new jobs." The idea people is to KEEP jobs AND create new ones. Not ruin jobs and add more people on unemployment. If the people, most of whom are people who have come into the country in the last few years and these are the only jobs they are qualified for at this time lose their jobs, you destroy both dreams and jobs and the economy with stupid socialist ideas that don't and have never worked.

 

[JackLuis]

Joe Biden says Sanders will endorse Clinton: ‘I’ve talked to Bernie’

Vice President Joe Biden downplayed any worries about tension between Sen. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton heading into the Democratic National Convention next month, NPR reported.

“I’ve talked to Bernie,” Biden told Weekend Edition host Rachel Martin. “Bernie’s going to endorse her. This is going to work out. The Democrats are coalescing even before this occurs.”

Sanders rebuts Biden on Clinton endorsement: ‘We are not there at this moment’

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) confirmed on Thursday that he had spoken with Vice President Joe Biden — but did not corroborate Biden’s allegation regarding an endorsement of Hillary Clinton.

“I talked to Joe, I think it was three weeks ago,” Sanders told MSNBC host Chris Hayes. “On that issue, we are trying to work with Secretary Clinton’s campaign on areas that we can agree on.”

NPR reported earlier in the evening that Vice President Joe Biden said the senator would indeed endorse Clinton as the Democratic presidential nominee in an interview taped for its Weekend Edition program.

Sanders reaffirmed that he would do everything he could to ensure the defeat of presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump, but would not respond when Hayes pressed him on whether he saw himself eventually giving stump speeches on behalf of Clinton like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) has done recently.

He also declined to go into detail on his recent meeting with President Barack Obama when Hayes alluded to a Washington Post report that Obama’s administration had “leaned on key Democrats” to ensure that the party’s platform would not include opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the multi-national trade deal Sanders has consistently criticized.

“On this issue we have a fundamental disagreement,” the senator said.

Is it July 26th yet? Has the FBI investigation finished yet? Has Hilary become a Progressive yet? Has the DNC fired DWS yet? Well there ya go.