Bi but...?

[EmilyMiller]

And I often pick up the thread where my notifications where you or other directly reply to a further post, not necessarily seven posts down the line of "that OPer is such a fucking dope", with variations.

Prove it. Post the links here. Unless you are referring to obvious bots or sock puppets. Or unless someone has attacked first.

Should be easy to do, right? Just prove it.

 

[SmilingLez]

No you don’t.

If understanding was your objective you would actually listen to what multiple people have repeatedly and consistently tried to tell you. At the beginning patiently, but with increasing frustration as you actively chose to ignore very simple concepts that a child could comprehend. Or you chose to argue that you know best based on - refers to notes - nothing whatsoever.

You lost the benefit of the doubt some time ago. No one is actually as obtuse as you seem to be unless they are willfully trying not to understand.

And people who want to understand don’t constantly engage in unfounded arguments. They don’t constantly shift the subject to an unrelated area. You are acting in bad faith and I assume you know it.

There is no point talking to someone who has their fingers in their ears and is yelling, “La la la la la.”

If you really sought understanding, you’ve had enough people try to explain in simple terms. It’s very clear your agenda is other than understanding.

You asked for proof of your behavior here it is EM

This is one of many examples in this thread where you talk down to people. You definitely have a bully/mean girl holier than thou streak. I for one am definitely sick of it. Yes my opinion and YMMV

 

[LargoKitt]

This is totally misunderstanding what being bisexual is. It doesn’t mean that half my sex acts have to be with a man and half with a woman.

I still sometimes fantasize about other women, but that’s pretty much the same as you fantasizing about being with another woman.

I don’t feel incomplete. My relationship is more important to me than anything. And it’s my choice to be monogamous. I don’t feel something is missing as I don’t have sex with anyone (regardless of gender) but my partner. Quite the opposite. I have the best sex of my life with him.

But… if just a few things had played out differently, I could be in a - most likely equally monogamous - relationship with a woman.

As I get tired of saying, I didn’t pick a side, I found a person. And I can say with utter honesty that his genitalia are not why I am with him. Just as it should be.

Do you talk with you partner about the full spectrum of your desires? NOMB. Do I talk with my partner about what/who attracts me? Yes. Also my partner's attractions. Have we talked about whether we had feeling for people of our own gender, or others for us? Yes. If, after decades of a CIS relationship, I said I was having strong sexual feelings for people of my own gender and saw myself as bi, it could be a deal breaker. Maybe less so if my partner said the same thing. If I said I had strong sexual feelings for a particular person, regardless of gender, it would be a deal breaker. This whole scenario could be quite different for the Gen Z people in my life. I hope the greater fluidity of identities and commitments makes their lives easier. For my granddaughter, in high school, who has said she feels for both male and female people, I hope her discussions with possible partners is fascinating.

 

[LargoKitt]

Prove it. Post the links here. Unless you are referring to obvious bots or sock puppets. Or unless someone has attacked first.

Should be easy to do, right? Just prove it.

Anger issues. These discussions often roam away from the OP. Or take issue with some aspect of it that resonates with the poster. Prove what? Since I don't have your eyes nor read the thread post by post, I might miss the way someone dissed me to someone else. Dunno. Not really important to me. I am learning stuff. Touched some nerves. Good. Sorry if it felt unkind.

 

[Cagivagurl]

This thread is the perfect example of the failings of the AH.... Toxicity...

People cannot express opinions without being personally attacked...
You don't have to agree, but is it so difficult to be polite?
Disagree, but please stop making everything personal....

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Prove it. Post the links here. Unless you are referring to obvious bots or sock puppets. Or unless someone has attacked first.

Should be easy to do, right? Just prove it.

Be careful @LargoKitt she's something of an expert on the care and feeding of sock puppets.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

This thread is the perfect example of the failings of the AH.... Toxicity...

People cannot express opinions without being personally attacked...
You don't have to agree, but is it so difficult to be polite?
Disagree, but please stop making everything personal....

And if you don't like the conversation, don't participate... seems simple enough... yet here we are.

 

[usable001]

If, after decades of a CIS relationship, I said I was having strong sexual feelings for people of my own gender and saw myself as bi, it could be a deal breaker.

It is even worse for someone who is transgender... and that was before people in political power started equating being transgender with being a terrorist.

 

[SmilingLez]

And if you don't like the conversation, don't participate... seems simple enough... yet here we are.

I took your advice and built a collaborative creative community website

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It is even worse for someone who is transgender... and that was before people in political power started equating being transgender with being a terrorist.

There are so many different issues tied up in these things.
It's perfectly natural for people to have questions about other people's perspectives. It's rather unfortunate that there are bigots who will attack people for the sin of seeking to understand how other people feel about something.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I took your advice and built a collaborative creative community website

You're welcome! Always happy to help!

 

[EmilyMiller]

Anger issues. These discussions often roam away from the OP. Or take issue with some aspect of it that resonates with the poster. Prove what? Since I don't have your eyes nor read the thread post by post, I might miss the way someone dissed me to someone else. Dunno. Not really important to me. I am learning stuff. Touched some nerves. Good. Sorry if it felt unkind.

You make an accusation and fail to back it up. I don’t need an apology. Your lack of any evidence speaks for itself.

Now you are self-gaslighting about it all. I’ll leave you to get on with that.

You made my point for me very eloquently, thank you.

And FWIW my partner knows all about my sexual history and all about my sexuality. Unlike many men, he’s not threatened by either. And again, it’s my choice to be monogamous, not something imposed on me by either him or society. And - despite all that - I’m bisexual. It’s not that I identify as bisexual, it’s just a simple fact I find both men and women sexually attractive (and have historically acted on that impulse with both). It’s not hard to understand.

#NotAllMen obv.

 

[Cagivagurl]

And if you don't like the conversation, don't participate... seems simple enough... yet here we are.

At no point did I say I wasn't enjoying the initial thread.
It has been lost in a decaying list of personal attacks rather than comments about the topic...
People using the thread as an opportunity to continue long standing personal grudges...
The thread then becomes a pit of angry insulting comments aimed more at people rather than content...

Disagree yes... offer counter arguments yes... but does it have to become so toxic and personal???

I love seeing discussion... disagreement, it proves we are all human, and have different opinions...
Our God given right...

 

[LargoKitt]

Kitty, I'm puzzling over whether a trans person whichever way they made their transition can be scolded for 'mansplaining'. I have queer friends who knew they were queer at three years old and a stepsister who didn't know she was a lesbian until her children were quite mature. 'Kids' these days get very huffy about their gender identity language as that identity is still evolving. It is possible to be ignorant and still understanding. I have been schooled here because I saw 'bisexual' as a sexual preference (perhaps based on personal biology) rather than an identity. But pardon me if I do a bit of a head swivel if you say you weren't trans until your mid-twenties and bi until some time later. I will feebly guess that you basically thought you were 'queer' some time early on. But what was your identity when. If it is evolving you need to give people some rope in getting you, right? But your identity is you, whatever pants you got on. That said, other people who didn't grow up in your body just might need some time and some words to understand and love you the way you deserve.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You make an accusation and fail to back it up. I don’t need an apology. Your lack of any evidence speaks for itself.

Now you are self-gaslighting about it all. I’ll leave you to get on with that.

You made my point for me very eloquently, thank you.

And FWIW my partner knows all about my sexual history and all about my sexuality. Unlike many men, he’s not threatened by either. And again, it’s my choice to be monogamous, not something imposed on me by either him or society. And - despite all that - I’m bisexual. It’s not that I identify as bisexual, it’s just a simple fact I find both men and women sexually attractive (and have historically acted on that impulse with both). It’s not hard to understand.

#NotAllMen obv.

It's weird, I never thought "I have a boyfriend and he's great" would turn into the new "some of my best friends are black" but here we are...

 

[LargoKitt]

You make an accusation and fail to back it up. I don’t need an apology. Your lack of any evidence speaks for itself.

Now you are self-gaslighting about it all. I’ll leave you to get on with that.

You made my point for me very eloquently, thank you.

And FWIW my partner knows all about my sexual history and all about my sexuality. Unlike many men, he’s not threatened by either. And again, it’s my choice to be monogamous, not something imposed on me by either him or society. And - despite all that - I’m bisexual. It’s not that I identify as bisexual, it’s just a simple fact I find both men and women sexually attractive (and have historically acted on that impulse with both). It’s not hard to understand.

#NotAllMen obv.

Interesting nerve I touched. Refreshing to know that it isn't about me.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

At no point did I say I wasn't enjoying the initial thread.
It has been lost in a decaying list of personal attacks rather than comments about the topic...
People using the thread as an opportunity to continue long standing personal grudges...
The thread then becomes a pit of angry insulting comments aimed more at people rather than content...

Disagree yes... offer counter arguments yes... but does it have to become so toxic and personal???

I love seeing discussion... disagreement, it proves we are all human, and have different opinions...
Our God given right...

I wasn't criticizing you for participating in the discussion. It was directed at the perpetually aggrieved who turn up in these threads.

 

[LargoKitt]

Be careful @LargoKitt she's something of an expert on the care and feeding of sock puppets.

Mystery to me. The only sock puppets I know well are the Muppets, and I love them all, even the Grouch. Meat puppets are another issue.

 

[usable001]

I hope the greater fluidity of identities and commitments makes their lives easier.

Me too. Unfortunately, my experience has been that deviating from the norm makes your life harder, not easier. Being a single pansexual man means twice as much rejection, not twice as many sexual hookups. Attempting to express being poly means dealing with more jealousy, miscommunication, and hurt feelings instead of less. That's one of the reasons people get their hackles up when the way they're wired to feel is treated like a choice. Who would actively choose to make their lives harder?

There's a sci-fi short story I read from the POV of a gay man. In the story, a cure for homosexuality exists, but it can only be given to small children. In that world, homosexuality is a choice, and the main character has to deal with a question from his brother about his nephew. I wish I could remember the title; it's a good read.

My point, before I distracted myself, is that every person needs to decide for themselves whether and when to try to fit in. The fact that I'm over sixty and in a committed relationship doesn't change the fact that people who have felt like I do exist. In the name of fitting in, I could choose to hide details about my past and my feelings. As a matter of fact, in some settings, I do. But I also know people who are twenty or forty years younger than me, and hiding who I am—hiding the crap I've been through and what it took to get through it—isn't doing them any favors. I exist, and people like me have existed for a very long time without society falling apart. That's why I still say that I "identify as" this or that, because those parts of myself still matter, no matter who I am (or am not) sleeping with.

 

[LargoKitt]

To round back to my OP, I'm fascinated by how, in a story, people who have identities that could bump into each other talk about it and work it out in what they do. Freddy Mercury and Mary Austin really loved each other. So did Virginia and Leonard Woolf. It would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall and see how these relationships work out. We live in a world of growing complexity of types of people and customs. All the great stories!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Me too. Unfortunately, my experience has been that deviating from the norm makes your life harder, not easier. Being a single pansexual man means twice as much rejection, not twice as many sexual hookups. Attempting to express being poly means dealing with more jealousy, miscommunication, and hurt feelings instead of less. That's one of the reasons people get their hackles up when the way they're wired to feel is treated like a choice. Who would actively choose to make their lives harder?

There's a sci-fi short story I read from the POV of a gay man. In the story, a cure for homosexuality exists, but it can only be given to small children. In that world, homosexuality is a choice, and the main character has to deal with a question from his brother about his nephew. I wish I could remember the title; it's a good read.

My point, before I distracted myself, is that every person needs to decide for themselves whether and when to try to fit in. The fact that I'm over sixty and in a committed relationship doesn't change the fact that people who have felt like I do exist. In the name of fitting in, I could choose to hide details about my past and my feelings. As a matter of fact, in some settings, I do. But I also know people who are twenty or forty years younger than me, and hiding who I am—hiding the crap I've been through and what it took to get through it—isn't doing them any favors. I exist, and people like me have existed for a very long time without society falling apart. That's why I still say that I "identify as" this or that, because those parts of myself still matter, no matter who I am (or am not) sleeping with.

I saw a clip from a comedian years ago and he made a joke about how he was glad he wasn't bi-sexual, because "imagine wanting to fuck everyone you meet, that would be exhausting".

As always there's always some truth to the best jokes. Theoretically you have more choices, but as a practical matter you are much more limited because of the way others feel about the matter.

 

[LargoKitt]

Me too. Unfortunately, my experience has been that deviating from the norm makes your life harder, not easier. Being a single pansexual man means twice as much rejection, not twice as many sexual hookups. Attempting to express being poly means dealing with more jealousy, miscommunication, and hurt feelings instead of less. That's one of the reasons people get their hackles up when the way they're wired to feel is treated like a choice. Who would actively choose to make their lives harder?

There's a sci-fi short story I read from the POV of a gay man. In the story, a cure for homosexuality exists, but it can only be given to small children. In that world, homosexuality is a choice, and the main character has to deal with a question from his brother about his nephew. I wish I could remember the title; it's a good read.

My point, before I distracted myself, is that every person needs to decide for themselves whether and when to try to fit in. The fact that I'm over sixty and in a committed relationship doesn't change the fact that people who have felt like I do exist. In the name of fitting in, I could choose to hide details about my past and my feelings. As a matter of fact, in some settings, I do. But I also know people who are twenty or forty years younger than me, and hiding who I am—hiding the crap I've been through and what it took to get through it—isn't doing them any favors. I exist, and people like me have existed for a very long time without society falling apart. That's why I still say that I "identify as" this or that, because those parts of myself still matter, no matter who I am (or am not) sleeping with.

An analogy. My DNA makes me about as much of a 'white person' as one can get. I'm in an interracial marriage. Yet I do not 'identify as white'. Except in the context where my people have weaponized skin color and now people I might be close to are separated by an idea. Today's kids often grow up in a Sesame Street world where color is what makes a particular person interesting. They also are less locked to 'pairing up' or 'wearing the right mask' even as they try that stuff on. Curiously, despite old cultural constraints, a person of your vintage might find more people because of the "Hello In There" effect where all kinds of seniors need love, attention, touch, appreciation, and careful sex because they find themselves on a lonesome road.

 

[usable001]

I'm fascinated by how, in a story, people who have identities that could bump into each other talk about it and work it out in what they do.

I'm even more fascinated when it happens in real life. There's a married couple who do reaction videos on YouTube who casually dropped the information during Pride Month that she is a lesbian and he is gay. They are legally married and deeply love each other... just not in that way.

I was more psyched that they felt comfortable enough to share that information in public than I was about hearing the details of someone else's love life.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

I will say what I said on another thread recently when I saw it begin to get heated. These are incredibly difficult and sensitive topics, and the potential for misstepping and misunderstanding is quite high. It is extremely easy to come off as rude or antagonistic or closed-minded or willful, whether one intends it or not. When emotion increases, understanding and cognition decrease. I recognize that some differences are irreconcilable, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Please, for the sake of everyone here and everyone who's struggling with being understood and accepted, can we all try to, on the one hand, be careful with how we're phrasing things and, on the other, give everyone the benefit of the doubt when they fail to do so, and just... be kind to each other? The world is full of so much hate right now, there's no need to unnecessarily generate more of it.

 

[LargoKitt]

I'm even more fascinated when it happens in real life. There's a married couple who do reaction videos on YouTube who casually dropped the information during Pride Month that she is a lesbian and he is gay. They are legally married and deeply love each other... just not in that way.

I was more psyched that they felt comfortable enough to share that information in public than I was about hearing the details of someone else's love life.

Margaret Mead said a marriage is 1 the joining of two families, 2 an agreement to share property, and 3 an understanding that you will share the raising of any children. That's it. Add love and sex as the bubble wrap that makes the rest continue without damage.