Bi but...?

[sirhugs]

Which doesn't change my point.
When you are using "you can't say that, people are offended" as a juvenile way to shout down people who disagree with you, equality isn't the issue.

And you missed the opening:

“You have to say I found that joke offensive. Someone saying to me ‘I'm offended’ they might as well be saying they've got a pain in their leg. I have no opinion about it."

talk about missing the point...

 

[Kelliezgirl]

talk about missing the point...

Yeah, did you read the whole article?

 

[sirhugs]

Yeah, did you read the whole article?

The part where he made the point about why he no longer argues with idiots? Or was that too subtle for you?

 

[SmilingLez]

And I think the heart of the matter is a refusal to let bisexual people say who they are. Which we see on this very thread. We have to subscribe to definitions imposed by other people.

I say this with all due respect:

Fuck - that - shit!

I think that has to do with the queer umbrella. It has erased not only lesbianism but bisexuality.

I've read a lot of books about the GLF. Bisexuals were a big part of that movement. That was why they were included when the GLF became the Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual movement.

YMMV

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The part where he made the point about why he no longer argues with idiots? Or was that too subtle for you?

Nope, it's great advice. It's why I'm not arguing with you.

 

[sirhugs]

Nope, it's great advice. It's why I'm not arguing with you.

apparenty, too subtle...

I wonder if @EmilyMiller is free for a relaxing Jameson's over at the AH Coffee House. I do enjoy a safe space after a long day.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Wow, that almost completely changes the meaning of the quote.

It’s almost like some people cherry-pick…

 

[EmilyMiller]

apparenty, too subtle...

I wonder if @EmilyMiller is free for a relaxing Jameson's over at the AH Coffee House. I do enjoy a safe space after a long day.

Can I make it Appleton Rare Cask Rum? About the only spirits I drink neat (with ice)… My SO likes scotch. Too much for me.

 

[sirhugs]

Can I make it Appleton Rare Cask Rum? About the only spirits I drink neat (with ice)… My SO likes scotch. Too much for me.

IRL I have the scotch poured.

Jameson's is the mythical spirit supplied by @Candy_Kane54 in the coffee house, where this afternoon there is a dandy polite discussion of the merits or lack therof of lamb going on, with no one getting overly excited.

I'm sure your tipple of choice would be welcomed.

 

[PennyThompson]

claiming an identity might require an actual, you know, action.

By that logic, anyone who has not had sex, or is not currently sexually active, is asexual. I think most people would agree that this would not be an accurate definition of asexual?

Alfred Kinsey figured this out seventy years ago, his scale used a questionnaire that asked about both sexual activity and sexual attraction and fantasies.

Though interestingly, he didn't care for the term "bisexual," and said that all human experiences and identities (as with most things in nature) exist on a fuzzy continuum.

in the current culture, there's a lot of social incentives to focus on your most fleeting fantasies that lie outside of the "conventional" norms and use them to acquire some covered, non-heteronormative label.

That seems to bother you, why?

 

[sirhugs]

By that logic, anyone who has not had sex, or is not currently sexually active, is asexual. I think most people would agree that this would not be an accurate definition of asexual?

Alfred Kinsey figured this out seventy years ago, his scale used a questionnaire that asked about both sexual activity and sexual attraction and fantasies.

Though interestingly, he didn't care for the term "bisexual," and said that all human experiences and identities (as with most things in nature) exist on a fuzzy continuum.

That seems to bother you, why?

you'd also be welcome to bring the tipple of your choice over to the coffee house (the Jameson's is the house stock). I bet you have interesting things to say about the pros and cons of lamb.

 

[yowser]

May I direct authors with bisexual themes/characters/interests to the Bi-Ways Author Challenge slated for January 2027. Some of you may value an opportunity to expand your repertoire.

 

[Britva415]

in the current culture, there's a lot of social incentives to focus on your most fleeting fantasies that lie outside of the "conventional" norms and use them to acquire some covered, non-heteronormative label

What I see looks like: We have a couple of generations now who have grown up without active disincentive against being naturally, inherently non-normative. Against just being who they are without being able to help it.

Well, not as much, anyway, since phobia and pressure from some people to closet clearly still exist.

That's what I think. But what do you mean by "social incentives?" And what are they?

 

[sirhugs]

And I think the heart of the matter is a refusal to let bisexual people say who they are. Which we see on this very thread. We have to subscribe to definitions imposed by other people.

I say this with all due respect:

Fuck - that - shit!

a tribute:

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Alfred Kinsey figured this out seventy years ago, his scale used a questionnaire that asked about both sexual activity and sexual attraction and fantasies.

Though interestingly, he didn't care for the term "bisexual," and said that all human experiences and identities (as with most things in nature) exist on a fuzzy continuum.

Kinsey (like Vladimir Nabokov) was an entomologist. Biologists like them (and Emily Miller) inevitably learn lots about variation.

 

[usable001]

I'm open to the possibility that the whole point of the OP was to rile people up, not an actual question by someone who wants to learn anything.

Say something to piss people off, then keep quiet until the annoyed responders start nipping at each other for lack of another actively engaging target. If that was the goal, the OP succeeded.

 

[XerXesXu]

I'm open to the the possibility that the whole point of the OP was to rile people up, not an actual question by someone who wants to learn anything.

Say something to piss people off, then keep quiet until the annoyed responders start nipping at each other for lack of another actively engaging target. If that was the goal, the OP succeeded.

I see it differently. Some people assume monogamy, some assume promiscuity, as a default mode. Many people in a partnered relationship will share the same assumptions, some will have contradictory assumptions. The OP seems to assume promiscuity as the default mode and his question arises from that.

I’m a serial monogamist, monogamous within relationships, promiscuous between. My relationships have always been with monogamous partners so I’ve no idea how the conversation the OP asks about would go.

 

[LargoKitt]

This is just hard to follow for me. I'm about as straight as anyone, but ... "You claim to like two things, but since you are only currently holding one of those things, you must have stopped liking the other one." Really?

"I like both reading novels and playing tennis."

"But you're playing tennis now, so you must have given up reading for pleasure."

What?

And because you like reading novels you have decided never to play tennis again; but you identify as someone who presently both reads novels and plays tennis (Not 'likes' but 'plays and reads'. Seems like there are two circumstances here: An unmarried and legally unattached person says, " I like sex with both men and women. And if I find the right person I'll go with that kind of sex." But marriage has elided a bit since I did mine nearly sixty years ago. Economics and the sight of so many parents splitting hard created generations of people who now say, basically, "I'm going to commit myself to *trying out* this relationship as long as it 'works'. If one way isn't good I''l try another." Another generation or so along people seem to be saying (to exaggerate a bit), "Lots of sexual and emotional 'modes' feel interesting to me. And I see myself as an evolving being. This week I feel like trying a bit of this and a little of that and putting myself forward like this. The pronouns that attract me are anything including 'it'. As for finding a permanent life partner...permanent is a very long time and people change. If a person I love can't handle that complexity...fuck 'em. Marriage? Oh. That isn't really necessary any more." I'm not really judging these changes, but forgive me if for my generation they feel kind of like whiplash.

 

[usable001]

I see it differently.

Just a possibility, not a surety.

Some people assume monogamy, some assume promiscuity, as a default mode.

I think an answer to my page 3 question would have provided some much-needed context.

If you are married, are you allowed to find other people attractive, or do you think that should be off the table for straight people?

 

[LargoKitt]

I'm open to the the possibility that the whole point of the OP was to rile people up, not an actual question by someone who wants to learn anything.

Say something to piss people off, then keep quiet until the annoyed responders start nipping at each other for lack of another actively engaging target. If that was the goal, the OP succeeded.

Interesting perspective. But actually I'm mostly expressing my own ignorance about how people describe to themselves how they *are* (not *like*) two states of *being* while they are permanently and legally commited to someone. I do recognize that I am 'tickling the tiger' because it is the 'legally and permanently' that is out the window these days. My parents' generation and before and some of mine were raised with the 'rule' that to be a social being you created a legal bond with another person for life. The rule is patriarchal and half of Americans, even in those early generations broke it. The breaking was often ugly. So Boomers have a 'tidal' tune in our heads that says, "The person you choose should ideally have all the characteristics of a close partner you both need, for the next sixty years." So, logically, to my generation, an unmarried person saying they were bisexual meant just two things: 'I like both men and women and will have sex with both until I find a mate and then I will choose one. I might have fantasies but that life is over.' or, 'I really like both men and women in bed so I guess that rules out getting married or being in a permanent relationship.' (Okay, so there has always been Virginia Woolf and Frida Kahlo and Freddy Mercury and Cole Porter and Leonard Bernstein. So if you can make it work, the more power to you.) For the sake of 'story research' I am curious about how the dialog goes when you ask your lover for the first time, "Are you okay with me being bi?" And maybe they ask, "What does that mean...for us?"

 

[usable001]

This week I feel like trying a bit of this and a little of that and putting myself forward like this. The pronouns that attract me are anything including 'it'.

That's me, and I'm not much younger than you (the label of the week for that is either pansexual or omnisexual, by the way). I also could probably slap on the label polyamourous, if I was in the mood to add more labels, as well, because I feel absolutely zero jealousy when people I like are amorous with other people. However, I've also been in a monogamous relationship for multiple decades with someone who doesn't judge me for the experimentation of my youth, but has zero interest in swinging or anything similar outside our marriage. How do those two things mesh?

I suspect the same way they did for you, @LargoKitt: I made a choice. I would rather be with the person I am with than with any of the other possible people out there. The fact that my "could have been" list is seven billion instead of two or three billion is moot.

 

[XerXesXu]

If I like blondes, brunettes, and red-headed women, does that mean I have three needs?

On the topic of monogamy, anything you say about bisexual people can also probably be said about straight people. If you are married, are you allowed to find other people attractive, or do you think that should be off the table for straight people?

I've never felt a particular attraction to blondes, but brunets and redheads I can find physically attractive. But if I'd met the right blonde ... who knows. I wouldn't have felt any need to pursue brunets and redheads. I'm a straight, monogamous male who's always had relationships with straight, monogamous females; for the duration, they've met all my sexual and emotional needs.

The same may be said for many non-binary couples.

If they default to a presumption of promiscuity that all changes and the couple must negotiate who, how and when. I know straight couples who've done this and I know NB couples who've done this. Insofar as it's been studied, NBs assume promiscuity within a relationship at a higher rate -- though still a low rate -- compared to straight couples.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And because you like reading novels you have decided never to play tennis again; but you identify as someone who presently both reads novels and plays tennis (Not 'likes' but 'plays and reads'. Seems like there are two circumstances here: An unmarried and legally unattached person says, " I like sex with both men and women. And if I find the right person I'll go with that kind of sex." But marriage has elided a bit since I did mine nearly sixty years ago. Economics and the sight of so many parents splitting hard created generations of people who now say, basically, "I'm going to commit myself to *trying out* this relationship as long as it 'works'. If one way isn't good I''l try another." Another generation or so along people seem to be saying (to exaggerate a bit), "Lots of sexual and emotional 'modes' feel interesting to me. And I see myself as an evolving being. This week I feel like trying a bit of this and a little of that and putting myself forward like this. The pronouns that attract me are anything including 'it'. As for finding a permanent life partner...permanent is a very long time and people change. If a person I love can't handle that complexity...fuck 'em. Marriage? Oh. That isn't really necessary any more." I'm not really judging these changes, but forgive me if for my generation they feel kind of like whiplash.

This is all in your head. It bears no relation whatsoever to the lived reality of bisexual people.

A question for you: why the fuck are you so caught up on this that you feel the need to dismiss and denigrate other people’s lives, when you clearly know nothing about the area? Why do you care?

This has now become a commentary on you, not other people. You are simply revealing your own misconceptions and biases.

 

[usable001]

'I like both men and women and will have sex with both until I find a mate and then I will choose one. I might have fantasies but that life is over.'

Close, but when I got married, instead of choosing "men" or "women", I chose one person. Again, as I suspect you did.

As for fantasies, I do happen to write porn.

 

[usable001]

You are simply revealing your own misconceptions and biases.

Yes. So now the proper response is education, not hostility.