Common Core Subtraction

[Wat_Tyler]

I used to accidentally memorize VW part numbers.

It's really scary what numbers will get stuck in my head.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Re. your first paragraph. Spot on regarding the inner city schools, and some other specific situations such as reservation schools. So the observation of what to fix is a legitimate question. Further, while it's easy to say that the traditional methodology is failing it avoids my point. And that being that before we jump ship wouldn't it make sense to at least test the new methodology in a controlled experiment?

It's awkward and as you previously posted, real life gives you no credit for arriving at the wrong answer the right way.

Formal proof of 1+1=2

Ishmael

When I was a civil engineer I was paid to fix whatever problems came along.

If I had a crew laying concrete water pipe, and we got a load of pipe without lifting rings, my job was to make it possible to keep laying pipe. If a truck load of sewer pipe arrived a day early, and we had no crane to unload the truck, it was my job to unload the truck. There was no such option as doing the right thing. You do whats possible.

If I were an educator I'd teach kids to think about whats possible NOT limit them to whats kosher.

 

[about_average]

Wrong construction bids because of bad math result in lost job or bankruptcy, neither of which is desirable.

Or crashed interplanetary spacecraft.

 

[about_average]

We should look at results in the aggregate. I agree. But then we should also break them down to find out where the weakness lies, so we can focus on what really needs to be fixed.



Totally an aside, but interestingly, Viagra was in fact a failure. It was developed as a drug to increase blood flow to the heart as a treatment for angina. Turns out it increased blood flow a bit farther south.

Just because I can.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Or crashed interplanetary spacecraft.

Our conversation was a tad more earthbound.

 

[sigh]

sigh, you just managed to get yourself back on iggy.


FUCK YOU!

STAY OUT OF MY THREADS!!!

Golly gee, I'm in trouble again.

 

[about_average]

Our conversation was a tad more earthbound.

I'm not so sure, based on some of the posts.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Sweetie, international testing shows that the US is weak in math and science. Obviously no one believes that to be a harbinger of good things to come. But this whole new technique of teaching math seems to me to be nothing more than "new math", round two.

Is this method being used by any of the nations that are out performing us? As far as I've been able to research they most decidedly are not!!!! OK, we can assume that this is a profound leap forward, but we've heard that song and dance before. Why hasn't this methodology been approached like any other scientific experiment? A study group and a control group to determine whether this methodology truly is the panacea its being held out to be? Again, to my knowledge this is NOT the case. It is the case of an attempt to use the entire school age population of the nation as lab rats to test an unproven methodology. And if it doesn't work an entire generation of school children is lost.

I'd like to see some empirical results BEFORE this is foisted on an entire generation of students.

Ishmael

There is an enormous control group, but the logistics of testing them would be daunting. There are millions of people who learned arithmetic as I did - the granny method or the American method or whatever else you want to call it. The method involves using memorized tables for each of four math functions and using these tables to solve problems.

The testing would be a matter of giving pages of problems to numerous members of this control group and comparing their results to those of people who learned arithmetic using New Math or CC or some other method. The group with the highest percentage of correct answers within a given time period would be judged to be using the most efficacious method.

 

[RobDownSouth]

There is an enormous control group, but the logistics of testing them would be daunting. There are millions of people who learned arithmetic as I did - the granny method or the American method or whatever else you want to call it. The method involves using memorized tables for each of four math functions and using these tables to solve problems.

The testing would be a matter of giving pages of problems to numerous members of this control group and comparing their results to those of people who learned arithmetic using New Math or CC or some other method. The group with the highest percentage of correct answers within a given time period would be judged to be using the most efficacious method.

As I said earlier, there is some benefit to rote memorization. That might take you all the way through 5th grade math, in fact.

At a certain point, however, your going to have to transition to higher math concepts, and allllll that rote memorization you take such pride in will not help you. You're going to have to *gasp* think and use reasoning.

THIS is where the wheels fall off your bus, and why Murica starts lagging behind the rest of the first world insofar as mathematics goes.

Common core is an attempt to introduce the "why" of math at an early age. It's something you're not familiar with, so of course you and your kind denigrate it.

 

[bronzeage]

As a specialist I'm sure you must know that the VAK learning theory no longer holds water. The fact is everyone uses multiple learning styles- they may favour one over the other but never exclusively so.

Tell me JBJ, ever across illiterate people who cannot read or write and yet manage to keep count/accounts?

You still wanna stick to your argument?

JB evaluated kids with math problems in between his career as a street car conductor and double ought spy.

 

[bronzeage]

As I said earlier, there is some benefit to rote memorization. That might take you all the way through 5th grade math, in fact.

At a certain point, however, your going to have to transition to higher math concepts, and allllll that rote memorization you take such pride in will not help you. You're going to have to *gasp* think and use reasoning.

THIS is where the wheels fall off your bus, and why Murica starts lagging behind the rest of the first world insofar as mathematics goes.

Common core is an attempt to introduce the "why" of math at an early age. It's something you're not familiar with, so of course you and your kind denigrate it.

I hope you are wrong about the motives of Common Core. It sounds vaguely like New Math, which also intended to teach the why of math at an early age with Set Theory. It didn't work because early age type minds can't grasp philosophical concepts such as logical proofs. What early type minds excel at is rote memorization. The facts (such as multiplication tables) learned between the ages of 5 and 12 will be retained for life and be of use when called upon to solve the problem of the intersection of all sets which do not contain themselves.

The real problem with teaching Arithmetic to small children is it is no fun, either for the teachers or the students. It's tedious and hard work. Everyone wants some way to make it easier and interesting, but there just isn't one.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

There is an enormous control group, but the logistics of testing them would be daunting. There are millions of people who learned arithmetic as I did - the granny method or the American method or whatever else you want to call it. The method involves using memorized tables for each of four math functions and using these tables to solve problems.

The testing would be a matter of giving pages of problems to numerous members of this control group and comparing their results to those of people who learned arithmetic using New Math or CC or some other method. The group with the highest percentage of correct answers within a given time period would be judged to be using the most efficacious method.

The good thing about memorization is that it teaches pattern recognition. What we see with Common Core is the idea that one example makes the pattern and then you are supposed to recognize it. That's why I know if all of the integers add up to three, then it is divisible by three, if they add up to nine, it is divisible by nine and if the former is true, and it is an even number it is divisible by six. There are similar rules for four, and eight. But the problem is, that as soon as they provide one test example, they are on to the next one. There is no building upon a foundation. It's all okay as long as you have calculator, computer and lots of time, but unless the nature of tests has changed, I think that they are still timed events and frustration is just human nature...



As far as testing, I do not know if that is the answer. I know that in China, historically, and currently testing is the way of separating who goes into government and who does not. Trying to measure the success of education on standard tests, to me seems a waste of metric. What is needed, in a Social Science, is not a study of historical measurements, but an examination of actual outcomes.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I hope you are wrong about the motives of Common Core. It sounds vaguely like New Math, which also intended to teach the why of math at an early age with Set Theory. It didn't work because early age type minds can't grasp philosophical concepts such as logical proofs. What early type minds excel at is rote memorization. The facts (such as multiplication tables) learned between the ages of 5 and 12 will be retained for life and be of use when called upon to solve the problem of the intersection of all sets which do not contain themselves.

The real problem with teaching Arithmetic to small children is it is no fun, either for the teachers or the students. It's tedious and hard work. Everyone wants some way to make it easier and interesting, but there just isn't one.

Yeah, I hope I'm wrong but it does seem that common core has a bit in common with "new math".

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I hope you are wrong about the motives of Common Core. It sounds vaguely like New Math, which also intended to teach the why of math at an early age with Set Theory. It didn't work because early age type minds can't grasp philosophical concepts such as logical proofs. What early type minds excel at is rote memorization. The facts (such as multiplication tables) learned between the ages of 5 and 12 will be retained for life and be of use when called upon to solve the problem of the intersection of all sets which do not contain themselves.

The real problem with teaching Arithmetic to small children is it is no fun, either for the teachers or the students. It's tedious and hard work. Everyone wants some way to make it easier and interesting, but there just isn't one.

I have to agree with most of that.

However, when I was teaching Algebra to Princess, she was eager every day to have me write her new equations to solve and she was precocious at that. It only took a few weeks of Common Core to crush her enthusiasm. The delivery of concepts was os bizarre that even as I assured her, we've done all of this before, it's just being presented differently, I, for the life of me, could not even comprehend the presentation and I have a degree in math.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I have to agree with most of that.

However, when I was teaching Algebra to Princess, she was eager every day to have me write her new equations to solve and she was precocious at that. It only took a few weeks of Common Core to crush her enthusiasm. The delivery of concepts was os bizarre that even as I assured her, we've done all of this before, it's just being presented differently, I, for the life of me, could not even comprehend the presentation and I have a degree in math.

That does not speak well to the quality of education you received.
:nods:

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JB evaluated kids with math problems in between his career as a street car conductor and double ought spy.

I drove a taxi and a garbage truck, too. I'm a polymath.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I'm living Common Core every single fucking day of my life.

My wife has thrown up her hands and walked away in complete frustration.

It is an insane curriculum with the attention-span of a dedicated MTV and uT00b fan.

That isn't CC. I've said this before & I'll say it again, you don't know what CC is. CC is just standards. It's just what needs to be taught. How it's taught & the pace at which it is taught is the decision of the school.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I drove a taxi and a garbage truck, too. I'm a polymath.

At the same time?

 

[RobDownSouth]

That isn't CC. I've said this before & I'll say it again, you don't know what CC is. CC is just standards. It's just what needs to be taught. How it's taught & the pace at which it is taught is the decision of the school.

Chief Tub_of_Lard simply wanted an excuse to bash public education.

What a shame he wasn't up to the challenge of Homeskooling his "daughter".

 

[marshalt]

I sat there looking at that problem and the solution. Yeah, I guess it works, but in the most ass-way possible.

 

[Que]

Chief Tub_of_Lard simply wanted an excuse to bash public education.

What a shame he wasn't up to the challenge of Homeskooling his "daughter".

Nothing new still?

#FatShaming
#AttackTheChildren
#StillNotHashTagEnabled

 

[Cleopatra]

I'll stick with the abacus, thanks.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Nothing new still?

#FatShaming
#AttackTheChildren
#StillNotHashTagEnabled

You don't have to stick up for your new "bro", little fella.

Teh Chief is perfectly capable of standing up for himself.

Besides, he swore a blood oath to Skyfather that he'd put anyone who quoted me on "permanent ignore". You might want to edit your post.

 

[Que]

Hey its Friday...

Speaking of ALPHAS, why aren't you and your new "bro" Dom Roger Elliot out sarging?

 

[Boxlicker101]

As I said earlier, there is some benefit to rote memorization. That might take you all the way through 5th grade math, in fact.

At a certain point, however, your going to have to transition to higher math concepts, and allllll that rote memorization you take such pride in will not help you. You're going to have to *gasp* think and use reasoning.

THIS is where the wheels fall off your bus, and why Murica starts lagging behind the rest of the first world insofar as mathematics goes.

Common core is an attempt to introduce the "why" of math at an early age. It's something you're not familiar with, so of course you and your kind denigrate it.

I learned all the math tables in third and fourth grades when I was seven to nine years old and they were useful through high school and college and throughout my life beyond schooling. I have never gotten involved in anything beyond elementary geometry and some trig, but I used the same math tables in those classes too. As an accounting major in college and on my job afterward, I used a lot of arithmetic, including percentages and fractions and was still using those same arithmetic tables I had learned in third and fourth grades. When faced with the need to do some calculating, I never needed to know why 6 * 8 was 48 or why 3 plus 4 equaled 7; I just accepted these things as fact. If it ever became necessary to apply these tables to facts rather than figures, being of normal intelligence, I never had any trouble doing so,