Confession

[Fata Morgana]

Zumi those fucking gifs. I nearly choked on me cake.

 

[bluebell]

One of the only people who wrote about excess in a non-romanticized way was Bukowski and, to an extent, Burroughs.
I agree when you are young and you read " The Great Gatsby" you want to recreate Paris and drink martini's and be unaccountable and anarchistic, free from responsibility and spend your life in pursuit of sensual pleasure.
When you are 20 or 30 you can do it, and I think in many cases it's probably a good thing.

But then you read Bukowski and see where it leads if you aren't a published author or a well respected actor or artist and the reality of it, in this world, is poverty and addiction and sickness.

I think Hemingway was a guy who never grew up.

Kerouac was another one who just never let go of his image.

But while they were in the throes of their belief they created some great art

So who is to say it was a waste of time or a life?



Should I add some gratuitous fluff?


What's this long nipple obsession you have?

Ungh. Your post is so good. Just so good.

To me, the nature of ultimate creative freedom is the idea that someone doesn't stress too hard about how they're going to live. They just MAKE STUFF.

When I think of the people I know who paint, draw, write, sculpt, etc, there's a big rift. Half of them have nothing and still create out the yin-yang. The other half are rich as hell and can afford not to worry about money so they can be creative. That's not to say the people with less don't think about having more, or don't worry sometimes. I just think those types of worries are far from occupying the head space that they do for most people.

If they are not bound by worries about where the money is going to come from (or if it comes at all), that frees up a lot of space to live in whatever state keeps them happiest. When pragmatism comes knocking, it's ignored or given half-credence.

When you are free, for whatever reason, to follow your creative pursuits, you can build your own bubble and just go to town. Ego is free of charge and could become the thing you focus on maintaining above all. Like your impressive list above, look at Ted Hughes. Sylvia Plath's suicide instilled a legacy for both of them, even though he sure didn't escape from that as the good guy and basically remained the same cheating, egotistical bastard until he was pushing daisies. None of that kept him from perpetuating the cycle: some recognition is better than no recognition.

Sorry, I have clearly shifted away from fluff and nipples!

 

[Fata Morgana]

In summary; someone eats bowls of cum, zumi was dancing like Flatters on Skittles washed down with Fanta, eyer pissed in everyone's milk and Tath wants a fuckstick bringing back?

 

[bluebell]

Ernest or Mariel?

Definitely Ernest!
I bet you could find something to like about Mariel.

I didn't mean to get all..analytical about Literature on the blurt thread.
I'm sure it's boring as fuck the the general population

They can pass over it. Lord knows I do if I can't be arsed.

Think of it as a public service. Amy is no longer being lambasted for cheating-which-isn't-yet-cheating-and-may-never-be-but-oh-my-god-it-could-and-we-have-to-save-her-long-suffering-husband-and-call-her-a-hoor-like-Jesus-would-want-us-to-do-amen.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Zumi those fucking gifs. I nearly choked on me cake.

heh heh heh

Girl came on here with a harmless lil' ol' fantasy about having a drink and doing a bawdy two-stepping with Henry Cavill...mostly everyone was groovin' with it...then the misery vampire crashed the party and just leeched the fun out of everything!

And on Valentine's Day, too! What good are these kinda holidays if we can't let our freak flags fly?

 

[girlsmiley]

heh heh heh

Girl came on here with a harmless lil' ol' fantasy about having a drink and doing a bawdy two-stepping with Henry Cavill...mostly everyone was groovin' with it...then the misery vampire crashed the party and just leeched the fun out of everything!

And on Valentine's Day, too! What good are these kinda holidays if we can't let our freak flags fly?

Exactly.

God there are some boring old fucking tossers here.

Jealous, attention-craving, ruin-your-awesome-mood fuckwits. Garnate's right. Eyer needs to die. Let's start a Kill Eyer thread.

 

[Tathagata]

Ungh. Your post is so good. Just so good.

To me, the nature of ultimate creative freedom is the idea that someone doesn't stress too hard about how they're going to live. They just MAKE STUFF.

When I think of the people I know who paint, draw, write, sculpt, etc, there's a big rift. Half of them have nothing and still create out the yin-yang. The other half are rich as hell and can afford not to worry about money so they can be creative. That's not to say the people with less don't think about having more, or don't worry sometimes. I just think those types of worries are far from occupying the head space that they do for most people.

If they are not bound by worries about where the money is going to come from (or if it comes at all), that frees up a lot of space to live in whatever state keeps them happiest. When pragmatism comes knocking, it's ignored or given half-credence.

When you are free, for whatever reason, to follow your creative pursuits, you can build your own bubble and just go to town. Ego is free of charge and could become the thing you focus on maintaining above all. Like your impressive list above, look at Ted Hughes. Sylvia Plath's suicide instilled a legacy for both of them, even though he sure didn't escape from that as the good guy and basically remained the same cheating, egotistical bastard until he was pushing daisies. None of that kept him from perpetuating the cycle: some recognition is better than no recognition.

Sorry, I have clearly shifted away from fluff and nipples!

I, for one. couldn't be happier.

I can't remember where the quote came from ,( I know Bukowski has his famous " Don't try" poem) but the basic thought is, you don't create art in your spare time, you create art because you are compelled to, if you don't you "go mad" This is, of course, without any thought of notoriety or money or comfort. You are expressing your "way" your self and, when you are young and free and bohemian, this is an easy thing to do. Maugham's " The Moon and Sixpence" paints the artist this way .

The Zen artists and poet of centuries ago knew this and most of their art reflects this, an absence of ego altogether. You feel that when you see a sumi-e painting of a cat done with one brushstroke or a poem from Basho.

Having nothing is very freeing. That's what in part launched the Beat Movement.

If you do break free from ego , you break free from worry, from expectations, from rules and you are creating from a place where there is no outside influence.

Now you take Fitzgerald and Hemingway and they reached a certain level of Non-ego and freedom through lifestyle and excess.

However excess is a wonderful tool but a horrible Master

I would be interested in your opinion of your artist friends creations. Is there a difference between the have's and the have-nots art?

People get caught in roles, Hughes was no exception.
Then you see people Like Snyder and Brautigan, who lived their life on their own terms and produce things that may not connect with everyone, but connect with people of a similar mind set. Which, really, is all any artist wants, to be understood and thus validated by a group of " peers" ie: people of the same "mindset'

If you do it right, if you do it pure, your art is an expression of your consciousness.
And thus has transformative qualities.

Ginsberg , Kerouac, Hemingway,Capote all reached a certain state and then, for whatever reason, collapsed or never moved past a certain identification.

It doesn't mean their stuff doesn't contain elements of truth and awareness.


“The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.”

― William Blake, Proverbs of Hell

People always forget that second part and that's the wise part.

 

[bluebell]

I, for one. couldn't be happier.

I can't remember where the quote came from ,( I know Bukowski has his famous " Don't try" poem) but the basic thought is, you don't create art in your spare time, you create art because you are compelled to, if you don't you "go mad" This is, of course, without any thought of notoriety or money or comfort. You are expressing your "way" your self and, when you are young and free and bohemian, this is an easy thing to do. Maugham's " The Moon and Sixpence" paints the artist this way .

The Zen artists and poet of centuries ago knew this and most of their art reflects this, an absence of ego altogether. You feel that when you see a sumi-e painting of a cat done with one brushstroke or a poem from Basho.

Having nothing is very freeing. That's what in part launched the Beat Movement.

If you do break free from ego , you break free from worry, from expectations, from rules and you are creating from a place where there is no outside influence.

Now you take Fitzgerald and Hemingway and they reached a certain level of Non-ego and freedom through lifestyle and excess.

However excess is a wonderful tool but a horrible Master

I would be interested in your opinion of your artist friends creations. Is there a difference between the have's and the have-nots art?

People get caught in roles, Hughes was no exception.
Then you see people Like Snyder and Brautigan, who lived their life on their own terms and produce things that may not connect with everyone, but connect with people of a similar mind set. Which, really, is all any artist wants, to be understood and thus validated by a group of " peers" ie: people of the same "mindset'

If you do it right, if you do it pure, your art is an expression of your consciousness.
And thus has transformative qualities.

Ginsberg , Kerouac, Hemingway,Capote all reached a certain state and then, for whatever reason, collapsed or never moved past a certain identification.

It doesn't mean their stuff doesn't contain elements of truth and awareness.


“The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.”

― William Blake, Proverbs of Hell

People always forget that second part and that's the wise part.

Yes, yes, exactly. My inner English major is sporting some major girly-sproing right now.

No matter the excess, the ruin, the devolution, there is always something to be said about putting in the time and effort to create. Personal failings notwithstanding; those sparks contribute to who we are. Sure, a lot of those dudes were assholes to know but like you said, that doesn't necessarily take away from their work. There are usually hard choices to be made if you live your life like that, though. They frequently have to sacrifice fulfilling personal relationships, don't have any at all, or leave behind a trail of pain. Although, people like that may not even be capable of stepping outside their behavior and seeing how they live.

I have a book that I haven't read yet but am excited to get to sometime soon about the relationship between creativity and depression. There are so many things to factor in along with our humanity. So many, that it almost seems like folly to define people by their actions. And yet their actions are important and are tied to who they are.

David Foster Wallace. I mean. David was not his suicide. He was way more than that. But he's not here to continue that narrative.

It's funny you ask about the haves and the have-nots art. I actually went to an art show a couple of weeks ago, held as a fundraiser for a special needs facility here in town. They had the residents create original art, then they displayed it in a gallery owned by one of the art professors who works here at a university. I'm still really amused at the contrast of the work, because the residents' work was shown in the two main rooms, and the "professional" art was hung in smaller adjoining rooms.

And guess what? It was pretty underwhelming.
It was "technically" interesting, but it looked like stuff you could buy out of a Crate and Barrel catalog or something.
The art done by the residents had more behind it, it was so much more interesting. I think all of their pieces were bought within an hour or so, and I'm not surprised.

That's one of the things I love about this area: there's an art culture to be had. You can be rich or you can be not-so-rich and there will always be a way for you to share your work. We've gone to other art shows here where the art is mostly done by the "have-nots" and it's crazy-interesting. That's not to say people who are well-off unequivocally make boring art, I just think it goes back to what you're saying about the balance of factors that go into the creative mind and the creative process.

If you do it right, if you do it pure, your art is an expression of your consciousness.

Fuck yes. Some people get stuck there, and some people realize they have to navel-gaze and then bring those revelations out in the light of day and see how the edges rub off. Be interested, go out into the world, do things! People who express themselves creatively are probably also the ones who know best how to be people.
Funny, flawed, grumpy, lovable, real people.
Creative expression and self-awareness are harder to come by when there's a daily grind (bills, FT work, stress, etc) wearing you down. Sometimes creative expression is as simple as thinking more deeply about things. Below surface.

I ran across this quote from Ingmar Bergman recently:

"I’ll tell you something banal. We’re emotional illiterates. And not only you and I — practically everybody, that’s the depressing thing. We’re taught everything about the body and about agriculture in Madagascar and about the square root of pi, or whatever the hell it’s called, but not a word about the soul. We’re abysmally ignorant, about both ourselves and others. There’s a lot of loose talk nowadays to the effect that children should be brought up to know all about brotherhood and understanding and coexistence and equality and everything else that’s all the rage just now. But it doesn’t dawn on anyone that we must first learn something about ourselves and our own feelings. Our own fear and loneliness and anger. We’re left without a chance, ignorant and remorseful among the ruins of our ambitions. To make a child aware of it’s soul is something almost indecent…How can you understand other people if you don’t know anything about yourself? Now you’re yawning, so that’s the end of the lecture."

It's also interesting that there are so many talented artists or writers who think their stuff is shit or they just don't care about being validated for creating it.

 

[Saint Peter]

tl/dr

 

[Fata Morgana]

tl/dr

Ct. ...

 

[Saint Peter]

Ct. ...

ts/ds




too stinky/didn't sniff

 

[bluebell]

I don't expect anyone but Tath to read that shit. And probably not even him, at that.

Go sniff a stinky cunt, Petey, it's snowing out- time for indoor sports!

 

[Saint Peter]

I don't expect anyone but Tath to read that shit. And probably not even him, at that.

Go sniff a stinky cunt, Petey, it's snowing out- time for indoor sports!

No!

Do you have any idea where that stinky cunt has been?

 

[bluebell]

No!

Do you have any idea where that stinky cunt has been?

I don't! We'll have to insert the Cunt Tracker 5000.

 

[Tathagata]

Yes, yes, exactly. My inner English major is sporting some major girly-sproing right now.

No matter the excess, the ruin, the devolution, there is always something to be said about putting in the time and effort to create. Personal failings notwithstanding; those sparks contribute to who we are. Sure, a lot of those dudes were assholes to know but like you said, that doesn't necessarily take away from their work. There are usually hard choices to be made if you live your life like that, though. They frequently have to sacrifice fulfilling personal relationships, don't have any at all, or leave behind a trail of pain. Although, people like that may not even be capable of stepping outside their behavior and seeing how they live.

I have a book that I haven't read yet but am excited to get to sometime soon about the relationship between creativity and depression. There are so many things to factor in along with our humanity. So many, that it almost seems like folly to define people by their actions. And yet their actions are important and are tied to who they are.

David Foster Wallace. I mean. David was not his suicide. He was way more than that. But he's not here to continue that narrative.

It's funny you ask about the haves and the have-nots art. I actually went to an art show a couple of weeks ago, held as a fundraiser for a special needs facility here in town. They had the residents create original art, then they displayed it in a gallery owned by one of the art professors who works here at a university. I'm still really amused at the contrast of the work, because the residents' work was shown in the two main rooms, and the "professional" art was hung in smaller adjoining rooms.

And guess what? It was pretty underwhelming.
It was "technically" interesting, but it looked like stuff you could buy out of a Crate and Barrel catalog or something.
The art done by the residents had more behind it, it was so much more interesting. I think all of their pieces were bought within an hour or so, and I'm not surprised.

That's one of the things I love about this area: there's an art culture to be had. You can be rich or you can be not-so-rich and there will always be a way for you to share your work. We've gone to other art shows here where the art is mostly done by the "have-nots" and it's crazy-interesting. That's not to say people who are well-off unequivocally make boring art, I just think it goes back to what you're saying about the balance of factors that go into the creative mind and the creative process.

If you do it right, if you do it pure, your art is an expression of your consciousness.

Fuck yes. Some people get stuck there, and some people realize they have to navel-gaze and then bring those revelations out in the light of day and see how the edges rub off. Be interested, go out into the world, do things! People who express themselves creatively are probably also the ones who know best how to be people.
Funny, flawed, grumpy, lovable, real people.
Creative expression and self-awareness are harder to come by when there's a daily grind (bills, FT work, stress, etc) wearing you down. Sometimes creative expression is as simple as thinking more deeply about things. Below surface.

I ran across this quote from Ingmar Bergman recently:

"I’ll tell you something banal. We’re emotional illiterates. And not only you and I — practically everybody, that’s the depressing thing. We’re taught everything about the body and about agriculture in Madagascar and about the square root of pi, or whatever the hell it’s called, but not a word about the soul. We’re abysmally ignorant, about both ourselves and others. There’s a lot of loose talk nowadays to the effect that children should be brought up to know all about brotherhood and understanding and coexistence and equality and everything else that’s all the rage just now. But it doesn’t dawn on anyone that we must first learn something about ourselves and our own feelings. Our own fear and loneliness and anger. We’re left without a chance, ignorant and remorseful among the ruins of our ambitions. To make a child aware of it’s soul is something almost indecent…How can you understand other people if you don’t know anything about yourself? Now you’re yawning, so that’s the end of the lecture."

It's also interesting that there are so many talented artists or writers who think their stuff is shit or they just don't care about being validated for creating it.

English major? Now I have performance anxiety.

If you look at the need to create as you would an addiction, the circumstances they live in, the things in life they learn to do without, are all inherent in the behavior. The "suffering artist" is a bit of a cliche but there is a germ of truth there. I remember when Elvis Costello went from being the angry young wordsmith of the pop/new wave set to releasing songs like
" Everyday I Write The Book". In an interview he said something to the effect that " You can't expect an artist to suffer forever".
I think some artists have no choice in the matter. Is their stuff better? More consistent? In some cases I think so, in others the lifestyle gets them and they have " years of decline" where there are certain bright spots but over all the spirit is gone.
I think that, too, is part of the "contract" they sign with themselves when they first start.

I like the Bergman quote. I think the need or urge to create art, which someone once said has no value other than aesthetically, is an attempt to express that which is inexpressible. That " thing" can be labeled a thousand ways "the soul" certainly being one of them. Giving children an idea that they are a vital part of everything, that they have a purpose and they can do or be or express themselves in any way they please would certainly make for a different world.

I may have to pick up that book. I read "Lincoln's Melancholy" and there is certainly the theory that without that condition he would not have been the compassionate complex man we all know.

I think depression is an altered state, and any altered state has a profound influence on what you see and how you respond. Depression contains with in it, in my case at least, a desire to understand. To get the feelings out where you can study them. Writing, music,painting..and of course when it works, these are the very works that touch the viewer or listener in such a way they they slip into a melancholy as well. The sad crying during a movie or a piece of classical music, when you simply nod..it is understood but beyond words.


Your observations of the art were a bit as I expected ( had I thought it would have been different I wouldn't have asked )
Especially this: It was "technically" interesting, but it looked like stuff you could buy out of a Crate and Barrel catalog or something.


Technical meaning it lacked soul or spirit.( I assume)
I think there are certainly rich people who can make beautiful art or music and, as you said, have no outside worries and are able to concentrate solely on the art it itself.
I think if they have achieved a certain understanding what ever they do comes from that center. Their life is their lesson, so to speak.

It's also interesting that there are so many talented artists or writers who think their stuff is shit or they just don't care about being validated for creating it.


I think many of them see repetition or patterns in their work which may not be apparent to others. If all their art is coming from one place, to them, it may seem variations on a theme, where to people who don't have that center it all appears different..there's just something about it that draws them.

I think very few people get past some form of validation..if you include being understood as validation as well.

Ultimately it is, at it's center, a holy thing. It is an expansion of your consciousness out into the world. If it is done with that intention it will always show,
Intention is everything.

/endofhijack

 

[jomar]

Alone? I'm pretty sure I said he would be with his friends. Anyways, it's irrelevant because I also said I'm not going (just that I think it would've been fun is all -- thus the "confession").

And sex is never boring to me. I'll take it in all forms. My husband just doesn't have the desire he used to, and the unfortunate part to that is now I want it like I've never wanted it before.

Also, I know it's important but I feel my 18 years of marriage is shallow so I want to fuck a boy that could be my son. Our marriage is perfectly fine otherwise.[/QUOTE]

This just reads so much like you meant to write it.

YWIA.

Yeah, was gonna say this crossed my mind when I did a drive by, but now feel I might need to get a textbook out for reference given the latest hijack. Eh, could be fun until Waling Dead comes on.

 

[islandman]

Chock-full of judgements, this thread is.