Could it be the CAT 5 cable?

[midwestyankee]

Lately I've been having an odd computer problem and now I'm here to beg for some help.

Problem: Intermittent connectivity when using my internet browser (Mozilla Firefox) and Yahoo Messenger.

Symptom: Fairly often browser pages fail to load but the worst is that Yahoo Messenger (Trillian acts the same way when I use it) simply disconnects at frequent and random intervals.

The real quandary is this: I get these disconnection symptoms only when I use my laptop on my home network. When I am at work I have none of these issues either with the browser or with messenger. For this reason I doubt that my laptop is the source of the problem, but I wasn't sure of this until recently.

What I've done so far:

- I've tested and verified that the problem is non-existent when I'm connected via my office network.

- I've uninstalled and reinstalled both my browser and messenger programs several times.

- I regularly check for spyware and related irritants with Ad Aware and Spybot. Norton AV is on an automatic update and scan schedule.

- I've tested my laptop from a different node in my home network. When plugged into a different jack, one much closer to the switch and router, I have no symptoms.

So, because I found that the disconnections did not happen when connected to a different node, I think that there must be something wrong with the cable going to the room where I usually connect at home. I suppose that one junction point on the network switch could be bad, but this seems remote.

Does this make sense, then, that the problem is likely in the cable?

If the problem is in the cable, would there be any advantage to getting CAT 6 cable instead of the CAT 5 that I now have? I noticed that my browser operation was much faster when I was connected to a shorter cable this morning. Is there any way to improve this over a longer length? The cable to the room where I usually connect is 50 feet long.

 

[Bottomlover]

Try a different cable in the same node. If it works, it was the cable or one of the connectors.

 

[midwestyankee]

Try a different cable in the same node. If it works, it was the cable or one of the connectors.

I suppose I'll have to do this. But staring at the cost of a 50 foot cable makes me want to be sure that it's a highly likely cause of the problem first.

 

[TBKahuna123]

ok if you are using the same cable to connect to the two nodes, one of which works and one of which doesn't, then no it is probably not the cable. Unless, that is, the non-functional node is already a long way fromt eh switch.

CAT-5 cable is rated at about 300 feet. All things being equal you will not see any noticable loss at 50 feet, or even 200 feet. It could be a bad cable, it could have just been that your internet connection was slower do to traffic, or the website was busier. OR, the cable could be bad.

Have you tried the shorter cable in the intermitent node? If you try that shorter cable and the problems keep happening, it's the node. If not, it's the cable.

For a home usage where you are just connecting to the internet there is no good reason to run CAT 6 cable. I run full duplex gigabit between 3 floors of my building at work with no degredation of speed whatsoever.

 

[midwestyankee]

ok if you are using the same cable to connect to the two nodes, one of which works and one of which doesn't, then no it is probably not the cable. Unless, that is, the non-functional node is already a long way fromt eh switch.

CAT-5 cable is rated at about 300 feet. All things being equal you will not see any noticable loss at 50 feet, or even 200 feet. It could be a bad cable, it could have just been that your internet connection was slower do to traffic, or the website was busier. OR, the cable could be bad.

Have you tried the shorter cable in the intermitent node? If you try that shorter cable and the problems keep happening, it's the node. If not, it's the cable.

For a home usage where you are just connecting to the internet there is no good reason to run CAT 6 cable. I run full duplex gigabit between 3 floors of my building at work with no degredation of speed whatsoever.

Thanks. To clarify, when I tested this morning from the node closer to the switch, I used a much shorter cable (thus a different one).

Just now I changed the cable arrangement slightly, by eliminating a short laptop-to-wallbox cable. Now the long 50 footer is plugged directly into my laptop and I'll see how it behaves. I do seem to be getting slightly faster browser performance (and no shutdowns of YM so far) but that could be a random thing due to traffic etc. Will keep you posted.

 

[Bert Notorius]

Personally I like the freedom of wireless...

 

[midwestyankee]

Personally I like the freedom of wireless...

It's tempting, Bert, sometimes it really is. But I have five computers here and have put a small fortune into wiring the house. To go wireless I'd need new routing and switching equipment plus three wireless net cards. The cost is prohibitive relative to the expense of switching out a single bad cable.

 

[Bert Notorius]

Agreed. We have two on cables. The laptop and one desktop are wireless. I have had cables go bad from absolutely no apparent reason. Wireless works out well when the kids have friends over for computer game parties. Fortunately, my no.1 is in computer science and is my IT manager.

 

[midwestyankee]

Agreed. We have two on cables. The laptop and one desktop are wireless. I have had cables go bad from absolutely no apparent reason. Wireless works out well when the kids have friends over for computer game parties. Fortunately, my no.1 is in computer science and is my IT manager.

It would be very handy to have your own in-house IT guy (or gal). At casa midwestyankee, I'm it.

 

[midwestyankee]

Update:

I spent more time tonight using yahoo messenger and my browser using two different nodes in our home network. From both nodes (so, using two different cables), I ran into the same problems of random disconnects.

Since this problem appears to happen from more than one location at home, it's hard to suspect cables. Next on my list will be the hardware. I wonder if the router (though it's quite new) might need updated firmware.

Any ideas here based on this new information?

 

[Bert Notorius]

No of the other comps experience the drops, just the laptop?

 

[midwestyankee]

No of the other comps experience the drops, just the laptop?

The laptop seems to experience the greatest frequency of the dropouts. At least one other computer appears to have had some similar occurrences.

I updated the firmware for the router earlier tonight so it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference.

 

[Bert Notorius]

You're not a speednet wireless customer by chance?

 

[akatrex]

Fluke it.

That is have someone with a Fluke tool check it out for you.

http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/DTX+CableAnalyzer+Series/Overview.htm

I have one that I use. Its pretty amazing tool.

 

[Fantazmaster]

Midwestyankee,
There is the ouside possibility of your Cat5 cables experiencing Electromagnetic Interference od some sort.Unshielded Cat 5 or Cat 6 for that matter can b especially suceptible to this EMI.In that you have several such Cat 5 cables
wired throughout your home,it could be case of these cables passing too near a
bathroom exhaust fan or some other appliance with an electric motor powering it.I had one customer who had such a case and the culprit here was of all things
his refrigerator running the automatic icemaker.This "gremlin" was especially difficult to track down,but after eliminating everything else,we did catch the icemaker "redhanded" in causing this EMI disruption.Relocating the cable further away from the refrigerator solved the problem.
I am going to concur on your upgrading the firmware on the router and will also suggest you look through the support database for this particular model router to see if other owners of this router are having the same difficulty.Also running a search on that Manufacturer and Model Number in some of the bigger search engines may also be revealing as others having the same difficulty with this model router will appear on support forums and the like and this will often reveal a solution.

The laptop seems to experience the greatest frequency of the dropouts. At least one other computer appears to have had some similar occurrences.

I updated the firmware for the router earlier tonight so it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference.

 

[midwestyankee]

Bert, no I'm not using Speednet.

Akatrex, thanks. I'll look into fluke.

Fantazmaster, I've gone over the routing of our cables and the only place where it nears an electric motor is in passing through the ceiling above our furnace and fan. However, the cable has been in place for three years and this problem with messenger began occurring only about two weeks ago.

I did some poking around an online forum for messenger issues and found threads describing malicious programs called booters. I guess the idea is that geek bullies like to overwhelm random people's messenger applications so that they're booted off the network at frequent and random intervals. Some experts in the forum suggested a few tweaks to the YM settings, which I did late last night. I'll have to wait until I'm working from home again to see if this made a difference.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[TBKahuna123]

OK When troubleshooting network isues I think of it like a chain. You take it one link at a time, from end to front, and eliminate each link. So here is the chain you have to deal with:

END
Laptop
Cable (wall to computer)
Wallbox
Cable (wallbox to switch)
Switch/Router (I'm assuming you have a combo unit)
Modem
Internet Provider

The first thing to eliminate is the cables, because that's the easiest to try. I think you have done that.

Second Have you tried rebooting your modem? Have you contacted your ISP and asked them to test your modem. Usualy they can do this remotely.

You said the laptop has the highest number of drop offs. Could it be the laptop itself? Could it be the network card in the laptop?

The wallbox or the cable in the wall is the toughest to check. I went through this same thing and discovered the cable I had run through my wall had gone out. Awfully tough to replace, or in my case, impossible.

Testing the router is easy, just remove it and plug your laptop directly into the modem. You may need a crossover cable though.

On another note, wireless really isn't that expensive. Linksys has a great kit for $85. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1030259&CatId=370

 

[midwestyankee]

Thanks, kahuna. Here's a rundown based on your post:

ISP - I learned today that while I don't have disconnects when I use YM from my office network, I do appear to be signing on and off to my chat friends. This tells me that it can't be an ISP issue, as it would have to be nearly identical problems with two unrelated ISPs.

Modem - We had an outage a few weeks ago and the cable technician checked the modem out at that time so I doubt if it's the source of the problem. Further, I reboot the modem as a default fix whenever I experience internet access problems.

Swith/Router - I replaced our router shortly after this problem began to appear with a new broadband wired router from Linksys. Last night I updated the firmware on the router and it appears to be working normally.

Cable - I get the same symptoms when using two different cables in our home network. Further, since there seems to be some interference happening when I'm on my office network, it seems to me that cabling can't be the source of the problem.

Wallbox/Main cable - I've bypassed the wallbox and last night I was connected via the main cable from the switch. Still the problem persists.

Laptop - This is a tough one. It's quite possible that I have some piece of malware that is interfering with YM, but so far two different applications (Ad Aware and Spybot Search and Destroy) have not found it.

There is one other link in the chain: my YM ID. If my ID is being targeted by booters, then it's conceivable that I would have this problem regardless of which computer or network I was using.

Since I appear to be experiencing some of the symptoms of this problem when using my office network, though not the severe ones, I'm tempted to think that it could be related to a firewall setting.

Any thoughts?

 

[Bert Notorius]

If you're experiencing page loading problems in Firefox you can probably rule out Messenger as the culprit. Was the cause of the outage ever explained? Seems like more than a coincidence that the problem appeared shortly after the outage.

 

[midwestyankee]

If you're experiencing page loading problems in Firefox you can probably rule out Messenger as the culprit. Was the cause of the outage ever explained? Seems like more than a coincidence that the problem appeared shortly after the outage.

I agree that there's an appearance of suspicious coincidence there, but IIRC there was a one or two week time lag between the cable modem service call and the beginning of the problems with YM.

The nutty thing is that I almost never have the page loading problem in Firefox from my office location. Because the problem seems to be much more pronounced when I'm at home, I am very tempted to suspect something in the home network. I just can't identify what it might be.

I also posted a description of the problem on a bulletin board dedicated to instant messaging applications. It will be interesting to see what they have to say there.

 

[TBKahuna123]

OK, a few more things to try, though you may ahve already tried these too.

Do you have another computer at home ont he network that you can log into with YM and do some tests. If it is a booter that is targetingyour IM screename, you should get the same issue on another computer.

Another option is to create a new YM account and see if that has the same issues.

The difference in how it reacts at home vs at the office could very well be related to firewall settings. That said, I doubt it is the cause of the problem. You may want to double check though and make sure the proper services and ports are open.

Also, have you scanned all the other computers on the home network? It's entirely possible that something has planted itself on another computer in the house and is attacking yours. If your defensive programs are blocking something, this could cause your connection to drop out when it stops an attack.

Finally, have you looked at your event logs? If there is some kind of networking issue, it should thrown and exception into the event logs.

INtersting issue. I hate things like this. :-(

 

[midwestyankee]

TBK, I could try with another computer but will have to wait until the teenager is finished with homework. Practically speaking, that means testing it tomorrow night.

I've tried creating an alternative ID and have been signed on with it for a while tonight. So far it doesn't seem to be subject to the same kinds of issues.

Re: the firewall - I wouldn't have a clue how to check for the right services and ports.

The same is true of event logs - I wouldn't know one if it rolled over my foot.

I plan to do some spyware checking on a couple of the other computers in the network tomorrow. One got the treatment today.

Life sure can be interesting, ya know?

 

[emptynester]

You may want to double check though and make sure the proper services and ports are open.. :-(

Finally I understand! Everything works better when properly serviced and those ports are kept open. Sorry TBK, I couldn't resist.

 

[TBKahuna123]

Finally I understand! Everything works better when properly serviced and those ports are kept open. Sorry TBK, I couldn't resist.

No problem. Life is always better when you've got the right ports open.

Re: the firewall - I wouldn't have a clue how to check for the right services and ports.

I thought you might say that. Try a different PC and then if that doesn't happen, I'll igve you a step by step. Shouldn't be too tough.

 

[midwestyankee]

Thanks for all the help here. I think that I have solved the problem.

A couple of days ago I shut down every computer on the home network and unplugged them all from the network. Then, one by one I booted up each computer, updated all spywaye/nasties definitions and did a thorough cleaning job, finishing by shutting the pc down. Only after all five computers were as clean as I could make them did I reboot the network.

That seems to have done the trick. My guess is that one of our computers - probably one operated by one of the children, had a nasty on it that was fond of migrating around the network or attacked other computers on the network.