Creating our own categories

[StillStunned]

Alright, so you know how we're always complaining here about how Lit's categories are too vague? That they lump together too many stories that are so different in content, length, sexiness and all that?

How about we make our own categories in separate threads? Say I start a thread called "Category: Sci-Fi & Fantasy - Sword & Sorcery", and add links to stories that fit that description. Or "Category: Exhibitionist & Voyeur - Voyeur (short)". Or "Category: Erotic Couplings - Random Encounters". Or "Category: Sci-Fi & Fantasy - Magical Realism". And everyone can add links to their own stories as well, or start their own threads for other categories they want. Maybe "Bisexual", for a start. As long as the category isn't too restrictive (I doubt there would be many links in "2P POV stream-of-consciousness cyberpunk", for instance).

A stickied thread with links to all the category threads might be useful. Perhaps even a link on Lit's homepage? And maybe this would work best in the "Looking for a Story?" forum. I'd love to get the thoughts of @Laurel, @AH_Mod and @Sammael Bard.

It wouldn't really require any effort from the site, except perhaps to raise awareness among writers and readers. It would give writers more ways to classify their stories, including in multiple categories for stories that fit R/NC, Anal and Mature, for instance. And it would be an extra tool for readers looking for things like "Anal - Romantic (long)".

Thoughts? Anything I've overlooked, like obvious reasons why this won't work?

 

[Writer61]

You can achieve the same thing by using tags.

 

[BeechLeaf]

We could do with something intermediate between categories (where you have to make an exclusive choice) and tags (too scattergun and arbitrary). It needs to not be a tree structure: lesbian romance shouldn't be just a subset of either of the two head words.

Possibly a restricted set of super-tags: part categories like lesbian or incest, part descriptors like short or slow-burn, with some flexibility to add new ones where they are agreed to be useful.

 

[Voboy]

That's far, far more work than I want to do just to reach a tiny subset of fellow writers. Remember, a VAST swath of readers has never heard of these forums and don't know they exist, nor would they care about them. They're here to read on the story side, and the categories there probably work just fine for them.

If I was "just" a reader and I had to take an extra step to find my stories, by coming over here, searching through one of a dozen haphazardly-named category threads, then going back to the story side to use the weird search function over there? I'm not doing it.

Again, more work than I'd want to do. Readers are used to the categories. That's what they've learned to use.

 

[NotWise]

Could a story be listed in more than one category?

If not, people will want it.
if so, people will abuse it.

 

[CalBishForNow]

Call it "major tags" and "minor tags", or a few "opt-in" tags the author is recommended to use by default and a large pool of "opt-out" tags they have to manually create, or have a few site-supported "recommended tags" or "primary tags" or whatever and leave all the rest to be user-generated.

But whatever the case, there would be tags instead of categories. Not exclusive, so if the story "My Perfect Family" is about a man married to a woman who also has sex with his brother on the DL, you don't have to choose between LW, Gay Male, and Incest, it can go in all three equally. The site could still have a list of the "major tags" or "recommended tags" or whatever on the front page just like they now have a list of the categories, but "My Perfect Family" would appear at each of those three links. "Trump categories" wouldn't be needed anymore, or could be officially supported instead of being half guesswork like they are now. If the community of writers and readers makes a new "minor tag" popular organically, it could be elevated to "major tag" status easily, and vice versa if some kink falls out of fashion or becomes so vanilla that it no longer needs a tag.

Yeah, I know, it'll never happen, too much work for Laurel, Manu, and the hamster in the wheel powering the servers, it would scramble the spaghetti code forever, unintended consequences, etc.

 

[Writer61]

"Trump categories" wouldn't be needed anymore

That's not a category I want to think about.

 

[StillStunned]

If I was "just" a reader and I had to take an extra step to find my stories, by coming over here, searching throu

Yeah, I know, it'll never happen, too much work for Laurel, Manu, and the hamster in the wheel powering the servers, it would scramble the spaghetti code forever, unintended consequences, etc.

I don't mean that this should replace Lit's categories. I'm suggesting it as a way for us, as writers, to provide a more precise categorisation.

If it happens, it will probably take a while for readers to get used to it. It would need to be advertised on the homepage, for instance. But beyond that, it wouldn't take any effort from Laurel and Manu, because we writers - or other interested forum users - create the lists and add links to stories. And I'm not suggesting that anyone go through Lit's entire back category, either. This is for us, the current writers, to stand out among the daily deluge of stories.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You can achieve the same thing by using tags.

The challenge with using tags for that purpose is getting a critical mass of authors to use the same tags, and then to educate the readers about it.
Neither is easy...

 

[Writer61]

The challenge with using tags for that purpose is getting a critical mass of authors to use the same tags, and then to educate the readers about it.
Neither is easy...

You would face the same problem with self-defined categories.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

That's far, far more work than I want to do just to reach a tiny subset of fellow writers. Remember, a VAST swath of readers has never heard of these forums and don't know they exist, nor would they care about them. They're here to read on the story side, and the categories there probably work just fine for them.

If I was "just" a reader and I had to take an extra step to find my stories, by coming over here, searching through one of a dozen haphazardly-named category threads, then going back to the story side to use the weird search function over there? I'm not doing it.

Again, more work than I'd want to do. Readers are used to the categories. That's what they've learned to use.

You're right, but the idea still has merit. Lets not let perfect be the enemy of good.
Think of this as a beta test. If it works, if people like it and give good feedback it provides the site ideas for potential change in the future. (I know...I know...Lit doesn't change, but it's easier to sell an idea you can prove works. )

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That's not a category I want to think about.

That's the Taboo part of I/T...

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You would face the same problem with self-defined categories.

True... but if we collectively discuss it here, perhaps we can be mostly on the same pages.

 

[TheLobster]

Do we also form a hierarchy of categories and assign numeric codes to them, like in the Dewey system?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Do we also form a hierarchy of categories and assign numeric codes to them, like in the Dewey system?

Now we're on to something... doesn't the girl on the front page have a name? We could name the system after her!
Once we have a system in place we can compete to be the Asimov of Smut and have a story in every category!

 

[Voboy]

I don't mean that this should replace Lit's categories. I'm suggesting it as a way for us, as writers, to provide a more precise categorisation.

I’m aware. I addressed that.

This plan of yours would reach “a tiny subset of fellow writers,” as I said. For me, that’s not worth the effort.

If it happens, it will probably take a while for readers to get used to it. It would need to be advertised on the homepage, for instance.

Readers have had over 25 years to find their way to the forums. the forums are well-advertised. Many readers simply aren’t interested.

When I was “just” a reader here, I didn’t crave involvement in the forum because it required a username, and I didn’t want to join the site. I was apprehensive about setting up an account on a porn site, quite frankly, and didn’t do so until I had to. I think many, many readers have similar concerns.

 

[BeechLeaf]

Grant that the vast majority of readers just want some quick gratification. But still, they would be benefited by some readily visible narrowing: not incest but father/daughter, not BDSM but whipping. Splitting categories is arbitrary, the almost infinite range of tags (which most such readers won't see anyway) is arbitrary. A bit of overlapping narrowing, implemented somehow, I don't know how, don't ask me how, would be helpful to the general reader.

 

[Writer61]

Grant that the vast majority of readers just want some quick gratification. But still, they would be benefited by some readily visible narrowing: not incest but father/daughter, not BDSM but whipping. Splitting categories is arbitrary, the almost infinite range of tags (which most such readers won't see anyway) is arbitrary. A bit of overlapping narrowing, implemented somehow, I don't know how, don't ask me how, would be helpful to the general reader.

There are already 33 categories. The category page could quickly get pretty messy.

If readers can't be arsed to learn how tags work, I doubt they'll put much effort into working through additional categories.

 

[AG31]

If such a feature were created, I'd enjoy trying to describe my niche.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Voboy makes a pretty strong point, and I agree with him.

Still, I support this idea wholeheartedly. Sure, the effect is going to be minor at best; this forum is a place frequented by a tiny subset of authors, let alone readers.

But it's the part where we decide to be proactive in a place that stays blind and deaf to anything we need or ask for that makes this a good initiative. If it makes a difference for even 0.1 % of potential readers, it's at least something.

Most of all, it might help influence our mindset for the better.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is one of those proposed changes that falls into the category of "Interesting, but definitely not going to happen."

The site is not interested in increasing the number of categories to make them more fine-grained and specific. There are reasons for and against that, but that's how the site feels.

I do think we could move toward a more tag-based system that would help connect authors and readers with compatible interests.

 

[yowser]

This is a bit of a tangent response, but it's in the spirit of finding sub-niche tales.

Many of us keep lists, often divided into discrete categories, that may or may not match Lit's (ancient and oddly constructed) taxonomy. This is a small step towards alternative story classification. I have my own, and just to pick another example, THBGato has a large and effectively organised set of lists.

These aren't site-wide responses of course, but a potential move in the direction you pose.

 

[AG31]

This is a bit of a tangent response, but it's in the spirit of finding sub-niche tales.

Many of us keep lists, often divided into discrete categories, that may or may not match Lit's (ancient and oddly constructed) taxonomy. This is a small step towards alternative story classification. I have my own, and just to pick another example, THBGato has a large and effectively organised set of lists.

These aren't site-wide responses of course, but a potential move in the direction you pose.

Back in the day someone created a post that was a list of lists that we could make public our lists. It was flawed, as I recall, in that one couldn't supply one's own description. But I forget where it is or what it's called.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Back in the day someone created a post that was a list of lists that we could make public our lists. It was flawed, as I recall, in that one couldn't supply one's own description. But I forget where it is or what it's called.

It was @Omenainen. I suppose the interest quickly died out. That idea had the same problem - the fact that only a tiny subset of authors visits this place, along with an infinitesimal subset of readers.

 

[CalBishForNow]

only a tiny subset of authors visits this place, along with an infinitesimal subset of readers.

This is getting off-topic, but agreed, that's interesting and unfortunate. The contests (on my mind because of the one ending this week) are interesting among other things because they're a sample of writers and stories that's random, or put together based on something other than my own personal interests or the AH. Despite how active this forum is and how much people talk about writing here, it's impressive how many writers out there aren't in the forum at all.