D&D(Give it a read, at least)

[Snork Maiden]

thats cool, but hopefully you can see in AD&D 1st Edition, you don't even need charts - Just a LVL and an armor class to hit The tables were really just for quick reference I guess

And surely the base attack Really is the THAC0 equivalent - its just been displaced in the repackaging

Snork

 

[Snork Maiden]

3rd Ed Combat rules

But seriously....

Spectral - I don't suppose you have a table of 3rd Combat Base Scores etc you can put together, if we are going to use 3rd to hits,

I really do think the 1st Ed is easier especially for newbies - you don't need any charts or tables just a simple equation and since each character only needs to learn one equation to last his character throughout the game

Any one else what do you say ?

Snork

 

[SpectralDragoon]

I could. For it to be any use I'd have to break it out by class. That'd be no problem, would only take a sex.

The classes in 3E are:

Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Base attack bonuses by class

When characters get a +5 in their attack bonus, the next time they level up they get an extra attack, and the bonus starts over for that second attack. The first bonus continues on. You'll see.

Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins and Rangers go up on the same chart.

Lev Bonus

1 +1
2 +2
3 +3
4 +4
5 +5
6 +6/+1
7 +7/+2
8 +8/+3
9 +9/+4
10 +10/+5
11 +11/+6/+1
12 +12/+7/+2
13 +13/+8/+3
14 +14/+9/+4
15 +15/+10/+5
16 +16/+11/+6/+1
17 +17/+12/+7/+2
18 +18/+13/+8/+3
19 +19/+14/+9/+4
20 +20/+15/+10/+5

Bards, Clerics, Druids, Monks and Rogues use the same chart.

Lev Bonus

1 +0
2 +1
3 +2
4 +3
5 +3
6 +4
7 +5
8 +6/+1
9 +6/+1
10 +7/+2
11 +8/+3
12 +9/+4
13 +9/+4
14 +10/+5
15 +11/+6/+1
16 +12/+7/+2
17 +12/+7/+2
18 +13/+8/+3
19 +14/+9/+4
20 +15/+10/+5

Sorcerers and Wizards use the same chart too.

Lev Bonus

1 +0
2 +1
3 +1
4 +2
5 +2
6 +3
7 +3
8 +4
9 +4
10 +5
11 +5
12 +6/+1
13 +6/+1
14 +7/+2
15 +7/+2
16 +8/+3
17 +8/+3
18 +9/+4
19 +9/+4
20 +10/+5

 

[Snork Maiden]

Another question

Fantastic - Thank you Spectral,

My next question is .....

How does this relate in combat and I will give a complicated scenario..

Example if I was a lvl 8 Ranger with 18/49 str fighting 2 handed using
a long sword primary weapon
a short sword secondary weapon
against kobolds AC7 ('giant class monster')

I would need 6 to hit

That's
7 - (+1 str modifier) = 6 for the primary weapon

7 - (+1 str modifier) - (-2 weapon penalty) = 8 for the secondary weapon

Hit bonuses = +11
+8 (ranger 1hp/lvl bonus vs Giant Class) +3 (str Bonus)

God I Rangers

1d8 +11 damage from the long sword (DEAD)
1d6 + 11 from the short sword (DEAD)

How does that work out in 3rd Edtion

In his next round he attacks twice, thats potentially 4 hits with a potential of 72 Hit Points (Max Damage in that configuration)

Snork

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Hmm..

Well, for one thing, there is no 18/anything strengths, its just 18.

There is no bonus for using a primary weapon. If you're holding the weapon... you're using it (what more do ya want? lol).

Level 8 ranger. Base attack: +8/+3

Long sword: 1d8

18 Str: +4 to hit and damage

First attack: need to roll a 5 to hit. d8+4

Second attack: need to roll a 10 to hit. d8+4

Typical Gnoll AC: 17 (+1 natural, +4 scale, +2 lage shield, base of 10)

Typical Gnoll Hp: 2d8+2 (around 11)


Thats assuming you didn't grab any feats that would help you out with attacking. Feats are special things in 3E. Things like power attack, cleave, point blank shot, dodge. Things like that.

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Now if you're using the long sword two handed, (which you probably are) you get a bonus. But if you are, you can't have a weapon in your offhand. The above was for the ranger just using the longsword.

 

[Khadgar]

woah WOAH!, i get the THAC0 stuff, but these new bonuses and attack classes and stuff is a little odd. so basically, the way we could play it is if a level 3 or 4 with a 4 THAC0, it would been 15 or so, right? so one out of three hits, would be a critical strike?

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Only critcal strike on a 20 or a 19 or so, on a natural roll (without modifers.)

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Actually, even then, its only a "threat of critical strike".

There is still another roll involved to see if you actually critical.

 

[Khadgar]

uh, so it's a 75 percent chance of landing any kind of blow at all then?

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Pretty much, yep.

I never do these type of calculations when making up a character. I just make 'em up how I think they'd be, and fight with them how I think that character would fight. I don't create characters for max damage, max killing.

 

[Khadgar]

ahhh okay. well i'll be a wizard then. even with the -THAC0 points

 

[Snork Maiden]

Khadgar, if you want to use THACO as form 1st Edition That's finewith me. Thats what I will be using in terms of the monsters attack on you anyway heh heh

I think its easier and faster to learn + I don't have any of the 3E rule set to effectively play it properly

It is up to you.

----


Spectral I wasn't playing any Primary weapon bonus - there isn't one in 1st Ed

I was playing a -2 weapon penalty for the secondary attack which equates to a non proficiency attack

Snork

 

[SpectralDragoon]

okay man.

do up your stats (str, dex, con...)

 

[Khadgar]

hmmm.... okay.... let me think

 

[SpectralDragoon]

You'll be taking alot more than a -2 if you're attacking with two weapons and don't have the ambidextrous and two weapon fighting feats. Even then you still come out with a negative for your secondary attack.

Ugh, all this might scare people away lol.

 

[Snork Maiden]

I'm back again

I under stand the modifiers you used for the Ranger but how did you exactly determ you needed 5.

Snork

 

[SpectralDragoon]

The AC you're trying to hit is 17.

You have:

+8 to hit for your base attack bonus
+4 to hit for your strength bonus.
--------
+12


so if you roll a 5 to hit, add your bonus of 12, you have 17. 5 is the minimum roll needed to hit that Gnoll.


edit: Oh yeah, AC of 20 is the best. Not zero.

Armor adds to your AC.

 

[Snork Maiden]

Ok Spectral - thanx for that I understand it a bit better now

Just to check though

If a Lvl Magic User attacks the same gnoll AC 17 with no strength bonus

Then that would mean he would need 17 - (+4) = 11 to hit right.

----

In 1st Ed the gnoll would be AC 6 (Scale Mail) -1 with the shield AC 5


FTR/RNG would need 8 to hit unmodified with the +3 str bonus that would be 3 to hit

MU Level 8 would need 14 or higher to hit thats a big difference im not sure thats balanced properly seem like th MU class in ed has better to hit stats (i'm not sure that how it should be)

If AC 20 is the best can you get higher with magical armor -
like in the old system where you basically could achieve AC -10



Are we going to start soon ?

Do you want me to post more lead in in the main thread, to get you all started I do have other things and info to give the party I was just waiting to see what was happening

 

[Khadgar]

*'s brain explodes*

 

[SpectralDragoon]

I didn't see a level number there but I'm assuming level 8.

At level 8 a wizard has a +4 to attack. If he rolled a 13, he would hit the gnoll AC 17.


AC can go higher than 20, with magical items for example, as you stated.

 

[SpectralDragoon]

Aww man, I hate when that happens.

*starts picking up and piecing together Khadgars brain (leaving out any chop-busting remarks I could have eaaaasily put here)*

 

[Khadgar]

heh heh heh good to know ya care SD. heh heh heh

 

[Snork Maiden]

I got it - (my maths was wrong)

both system appear to give around the same results

cool.

So you gonna join in ?

- I think we should start it up soon or it will neaver get going

Snork