Deal with a Client

[SweetErika]

I'm a tutor, and a few weeks ago a woman responded to an ad requesting tutoring for her three kids. We set up an interview/trial session, but she called that morning saying her daughter had to be picked up from school, so she and I would just talk. No problem...kids get sick. I went, met the kids briefly, and talked to the mom about what the kids needed and my policies (which she agreed to). One of my policies is:

2) If the student can not make a session, he or she is expected to telephone the tutor at least twelve hours in advance of the agreed upon time of the lesson. The student will not be charged for the missed session.
Unacceptable reasons for canceling on short notice include:
a) Failure to arrange transportation
b) Vehicle problems
c) Forgetfulness
d) Traffic
e) Vacation
f) Sudden illness, unless under special circumstances which have been discussed with ***** *****. (Many students give sudden illness as an excuse for not showing up at appointments.) However, I know that sudden illness DOES occur. Students and the tutor are allowed one sudden illness every twelve lessons, though the tutor may allow more at her sole discretion. It is very important to let me know if the student has a sudden illness that is highly contagious such as Pink Eye, the flu, a cold virus, or Strep Throat, so we can re-schedule that session when the student is well. I also want to make sure all of my students stay healthy, so if I have one of these contagious illnesses, I will let you know as soon as possible and work with you to re-schedule the session. Re-scheduled sessions due to excusable sudden illness will take place at regular price. Note: This does not apply if the student or tutor has a documented health problem such as MS, epilepsy, sudden-onset migraines, or CFS, which renders them unable to function on a moment's notice.

We discussed this specific policy very well, that this day was an example of a sudden illness I would excuse, and when children are that ill or contagious I NEED her to cancel because I can't afford to get sick and expose my other students to illnesses. She agreed, we scheduled a session for the following week, and I was extremely clear that if her daughter or other kids were still sick, it would be an excused cancellation as long as she notified me that morning.

The session came, and all three of the children arrived with bad colds. I continued, but told the mom after that this was an instance in which she should have cancelled because they were to sick to work well and obviously highly contagious. She said she didn't want to cancel like last week, and she felt it was okay because they didn't have fevers. (Nevermind the fact that they're coughing, sneezing, and dripping all over the place. ) Again, I told her if they were sick next week, she needed to cancel, and why...she agreed again.

I was supposed to tutor her children today, but she called at 11am to cancel the 3:30 appointment. She also let me know that they would miss EVERY SESSION IN FEBRUARY, and would resume in March. I asked why, and she said her daughter had an ear infection and needed to go to the doctor today (fine...those hurt like hell, and if she's sick enough for the doctor, I'm happy to excuse it). As for the other sessions, her husband is coming back from Thailand next week, and they have appointments and obligations the following weeks. It sounds like she made these appointments for Wednesdays because the kids have lessons/activities Mon.-Sat. every week...tutoring was the easiest to cut out.

Needless to say, I'm thoroughly pissed because these are new students and I've declined other jobs to take this one. I believe she started tutoring before March because she wanted to reserve a spot and knew the children would miss the whole month and no one would save a place for that long. I feel, and believe I was purposely deceived.

I realize I need to add a policy about this type of thing, but in three years and tons of students I've NEVER had this happen and thought my policies were comprehensive enough. I'm pretty flexible and understand vacations, appointments, and other things DO come up, but am far less inclined to be flexible here because it's a new client who doesn't have credibility yet.

-So, apart from adding a policy (any thoughts on wording the policy and maybe fees?), how do you think I should deal with this?
-I'm considering more advertising and cutting this family loose if I get other students. If that's the case, any thoughts on what I should say to the mother?
-If I don't get other students and wait out March, what should I say?
-Should I refuse to work with the family, period?
-Anything else?

All constructive advice would be appreciated!

 

[Guest]

 

[Ezzy]

Send them a package deal of work for each of the kids to carry them through to March.

Send a bill for the "extra" work at 1/2 your agreed fees at the begining of the last week of February or around the 21st - 22nd, send the bill and ask that they return the completed work on the first day they attend in March.

This will confirm one of two things, either: -

1) They won't be coming back in March and you will at least get some warning if they baulk at the bill.

2) They will pay the bill without flinching and you are up the 1/2 cost of the set work.

 

[Eilan]

So, apart from adding a policy (any thoughts on wording the policy and maybe fees?), how do you think I should deal with this?
-I'm considering more advertising and cutting this family loose if I get other students. If that's the case, any thoughts on what I should say to the mother?
-If I don't get other students and wait out March, what should I say?
-Should I refuse to work with the family, period?
-Anything else?

If I were in your shoes, I think I would not deal with this woman any more, and I think I'd tell her a relatively polite version of what you've told us. I completely understand wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt because she's a new client, but she's certainly not making a good impression. Not to mention she's wasting your time.

I don't think it's fair of her to expect you to wait the entire month for you to decide what to do. You have to earn a living.

This is off-topic, but I kinda feel for the kids. They sound overscheduled as hell.

I'll chime in later if I think of anything else.

 

[Ezzy]

Just on a side note, I find if I have made an appointment with a client and they need to reschedule at short notice I am ok about it, if they cancel and I am already at the agreed meeting place, they get a bill for my time (NO EXCEPTIONS), I generally only need to do this once per client before they get the idea that my time earns my money and if you waste my time you get to pay for it.

In the 5 years I have used this method I have only had one client refuse to pay for their cancellation of our meeting, they waited to cancel until I was in the air an the way to their city then paged me informing me they weren't going to be able to find time that day.

The bill was for the lost day and the airfare, and they refused to pay for the day.

Unfortunately for them I was implementing a new system for them (and to pull the contract from me and hire another contractor to complete the job, would have cost them the same again as they had already paid me, and the same again to finalize the contract). and there are a thousand ways to pad a bill with extra hours, when they got the next set of bills in, they paid them without a quibble and I was ready to drop them from my client list. The COE was informed by me that this would be the last work I would do for them, and the reason why. The COE kicked the ass of the manager who cost him the extra hours, and got me a written apology for the waste of my time. We still work together about once a year.

 

[SweetErika]

I would cut the family loose and move on. The woman has no repect for your time. You have standards, stick with them.

Good luck Erika.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would not deal with this woman any more, and I think I'd tell her a relatively polite version of what you've told us. I completely understand wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt because she's a new client, but she's certainly not making a good impression. Not to mention she's wasting your time.

I don't think it's fair of her to expect you to wait the entire month for you to decide what to do. You have to earn a living.

Thanks for the support guys. Cutting them loose is certainly what I feel like doing, but I'm glad to have other opinions because there's often a gap between feelings and what's best.

This is off-topic, but I kinda feel for the kids. They sound overscheduled as hell.

Yes, I think so too, and agree with you.

Another kicker is I gave this woman a discount because she was scheduling larger blocks of time weekly and said she couldn't afford my regular rate. I allow for a little flexibility on rates because I want help to be available to more people and certain things save me time and money so I can afford to pass that on. However, today when I learned the kids go to music, karate, dance, language, and ski lessons, it was clear that the mom had misled me. Lessons learned...next time I'll take more care in offering flexibility and generosity (that I have to do that pisses me off, too).

 

[Guest]

 

[TBKahuna123]

Lesson learned? Yeah I think everyone in business has to learn a few the hard way. Personaly I've gotten to the point where I won't do any website that would bid out under $1000. Those kind of simple, easy, basic sites are almost always requested by extremely nice people who require a TON of hand holding. I'm too nice a guy to just put up the site and cut them loose, so I always wind up losing money in the end. I've also learned that cutting people a break on price to match their budgets isn't worth it.

As you know, Erika, your time is valuable. Especially when you are a contract type worker, your time IS money. You can't afford to let people waste your time, because they are taking money out of your pocket.

 

[SweetErika]

Send them a package deal of work for each of the kids to carry them through to March.

Send a bill for the "extra" work at 1/2 your agreed fees at the begining of the last week of February or around the 21st - 22nd, send the bill and ask that they return the completed work on the first day they attend in March.

This will confirm one of two things, either: -

1) They won't be coming back in March and you will at least get some warning if they baulk at the bill.

2) They will pay the bill without flinching and you are up the 1/2 cost of the set work.

I hadn't thought of something like this, Ezzy. I don't think it will work this time, but perhaps I'll integrate it into my policies. Thanks!

Just on a side note, I find if I have made an appointment with a client and they need to reschedule at short notice I am ok about it, if they cancel and I am already at the agreed meeting place, they get a bill for my time (NO EXCEPTIONS), I generally only need to do this once per client before they get the idea that my time earns my money and if you waste my time you get to pay for it.

In the 5 years I have used this method I have only had one client refuse to pay for their cancellation of our meeting, they waited to cancel until I was in the air an the way to their city then paged me informing me they weren't going to be able to find time that day.

I require 12 hours for a few good reasons I've learned over time. One of them is I'll often schedule my day around tutoring, combining errands that are on the way, and other sessions with students who don't have a regular schedule. So, I have to have a cut-off point to save time, hassle, money (and actually make money in some cases). Another issue is a lot of people use "illness" as an excuse for their own irresponsibility, and again will try to cancel to close to the appointment...the 12-hour rule remedies that, and other cancellations, somewhat.

As I said, I'm human and flexible on things like true sudden illness, and expect that same courtesy from clients because I can't make it once in awhile as well. However, I've found establishing strict policies so people know what's expected and the specific consequences, THEN relaxing a little at my discretion, to be the best way to go.

I'm paid in person at each session (though one long-standing client pays monthly, which is fine), and have a feeling sending bills won't get results. I would if I had to, but would also assume I'd have to take the person to small claims court if it got to that point when I did so. I do see the value of billing, know some might pay it, and it could help determine intention, so I'll tie up the loose ends on that before accepting any more students.

Thank you again for the ideas and advice, Ezzy; my education and past experiences help, but thoughts from seasoned pros like you are invaluable.

 

[Eilan]

However, I've found establishing strict policies so people know what's expected and the specific consequences, THEN relaxing a little at my discretion, to be the best way to go.

Definitely a good idea. It's not quite the same thing, but when I was teaching, I found that it was in my best interest to make the syllabus (which is, in essence, a contract between the instructor and his or her students) for each class as clear--and as strict--as possible. Almost every term I'd have to add some minor detail to the syllabus.

As you've obviously noticed, it's much easier to relax the rules later on than to not have strict enough rules in the beginning. That can be said for a lot of things.

 

[armchairqtrback]

clients

I am in a profession that relies solely on private clients. I advise them that I bill for my time. Thus, whether or not they make the appointment is irrelivent because I set the time aside for them. Usually I need at least 2 weeks notice of a cancellation. Here is a quote that refers specifically to lawyers but applies to all who bill based on time:

"A lawyers stock and trade is his time and advice" Abraham Lincoln.

Thus, a store keeper who sells fruit will not let you just take some without paying for it. Thus, someone who measures their services based on time will not allow a client to just take time and not pay for it. Ask this question, "Would a sick kid have to pay for the fruit?"

And if your worried about being nice to people ask this, "Would the supermarket let someone walk out without paying for items because they shop there every week?" The answer is no, they would have them arrested.

Clients who miss appointments or cancel regularly are shit clients that you dont need, even if they pay for it. First, they will bitch and moan that your charging for nothing, which is not true. You are billing for time. If they did not use it then they wasted it. (If you buy fruit and dont eat it do you still have to pay for it? Fuck yes!) If they dont want to pay they are stealing from you. If they dont want to pay they do not respect you. If they do not respect you they will not refer you to others. You would rather have clients that will refer you. If they cannot refer you then you are better off doing nothing with your time because dealing with these people will just put a few bucks in your pocket now but hurt you in the long run.

Second, clients who miss or cancel appointments delay the progress of your work. As a lawyer this means that their case takes longer. In your situation the student takes longer to learn. Thus, your reputation (and referals) is ruinned because "my kid has been seeing the tutor for 5 months and cant read yet" (despite the fact they missed all but two fuckin appointments). On a regular basis I get clients who bitch to me that I lied to them about how long their case would take so I could charge more money. They forget that their case took longer because they missed court dates, failed to sign papers, failed to do their community service or whatever. These people dont get good results and thus dont generate more business in the long run.

I find that my clients (and myself) are better off being told openly to their faces that I wont tolerate their bullshit. Make clients pay in advance. Let them throw their money away not take your money. Plus, if they pay in advance they will never cancel unless it is really an emergency.

Lastly and most importantly. And as a lawyer I cant stress this enough to clients PUT IT IN WRITING!!!!! Not because you dont trust them but because you like them you dont want there to be any misunderstandings.

(Please send your check in the sum of $750 to.......... )

 

[jadefirefly]

This past week, my sister got into an argument with her daycare over payment of a late fee. My mother told me in private that she was actually annoyed with my sister, and felt she was picking the wrong battle.

The argument was because her son was sent home by the day care middle of the day on Monday and wasn't allowed back till certain health criteria had been met, which he did not do until the next week. But because -she- didn't pick him up Monday, and therefore was not present to pay them for the week, she was assessed a late fee.

My mom made the point that when you pay a day care, you really aren't paying -just- for the services provided. You're paying for the -right- to leave your kids there, essentially, to reserve a spot for your child.

As she said, if you go on vacation for two weeks, do you get angry because you have to pay rent?

My opinion is, when you are contracted for a specific period of time, that is time that you are assuming is off-limits for other people who may want to pay you for your services. Therefore when they cancel, you're out money, and ought to be compensated somehow.

I rather liked the idea of sending the kids with a sort of homework package, to suss out whether or not they'll be coming back. Mostly though, my gut instinct says to put out the feelers, find new clients, and tell this woman two things:

You won't be working for her anymore, and for the love of god, let her kids have a freakin' break! That is FAR too many lessons for kids to be taking! Poor kids! That, and she doesn't have much right to bitch about prices if she sends 'em to all that, too -- tutoring is more important than karate, skiing, or that other crap.

Well... except for language. And maybe music. Maybe.

 

[SweetErika]

I find that my clients (and myself) are better off being told openly to their faces that I wont tolerate their bullshit. Make clients pay in advance. Let them throw their money away not take your money. Plus, if they pay in advance they will never cancel unless it is really an emergency.

Lastly and most importantly. And as a lawyer I cant stress this enough to clients PUT IT IN WRITING!!!!! Not because you dont trust them but because you like them you dont want there to be any misunderstandings.

(Please send your check in the sum of $750 to.......... )

I think this is really sound advice that I'm going to take for new clients. You're right, my time is valuable, and paying in advance would show that and be a big deterrent to cancel.

I know your time is valuable and you're not giving legal advice here, but do you think (provided I change my policy to pay-in-advance) a term like: The tutor reserves the right to cancel the session if the student arrives with a contagious illness such as Pink Eye, Strep Throat, or a symptomatic cold, flu, or other virus. The student will still be charged for the session, but can avoid charges by giving at least 6 hours notice s/he will miss the session due to a contagious illness. With advance notice, the student will be allowed two sudden and/or contagious illness cancellations per 16 sessions without charges. Additional cancellations will only be excused if a doctor's note verifying the student is too ill or contagious to attend tutoring is provided to the tutor upon request. The tutor will also follow this policy yada yada yada...
will work alright? The point would clearly be to give me an out to limit my exposure if the kid comes as sick as the three did last week (and lo and behold, I have the SAME symptoms right now), while elminating "illness" as a viable and frequent excuse for irresponsibility.

Believe me, I put EVERYTHING in writing, and really value contracts. I'm sure they will save me a ton someday.

 

[SweetErika]

A little update...

Okay, so I wrote a very nice, professional, but firm, email to her explaining my position, policies, and offering reasonable solutions, and got an unreasonable response. Since this is clearly a person who lacks empathy and respect, and I'm guessing allowing the cancellations this time would just set a precedent for the future, so I'm not going to work with her at all.

On to bigger and better things, eh?

 

[midwestyankee]

Okay, so I wrote a very nice, professional, but firm, email to her explaining my position, policies, and offering reasonable solutions, and got an unreasonable response. Since this is clearly a person who lacks empathy and respect, and I'm guessing allowing the cancellations this time would just set a precedent for the future, so I'm not going to work with her at all.

On to bigger and better things, eh?

Bravo.

 

[Guest]

 

[SweetErika]

Thanks, Yank and Scaly!

Watch out...You all had such great suggestions on this one, I may pester you for more in the future!

 

[Eilan]

She sounds like a cunt. You did the right thing.

 

[IV_play69]

I am in a bit of a similar situation.......My Daughter rides horses and she has a private instructor. Her policy is as follows:

Payment for the month is due on the 25th of the previous month. (example: Feb lessons are due to be paid Jan 25)

Payment is made for the # of Thursdays there are in the month (thurs is her lesson day) So if there are 5 Thursdays then payment for 5 lessons.

As a parent I must be committed to 2 1/2 hours for the lesson (arrive 45 min prior to lesson in order to have 15 min to tack up and 30 min to warm up, then 45 min to cool out horse and anything else that is needed for the horses care) Also, if the lesson is at 5 and we arrive at 4 the we are considered 30 minutes late and the lesson starts at 5:30 and ends at 6pm.

If a lesson is missed it is at the instructors descression if it is to be made up or not UNLESS there is a dr. excuse, or totally unable to travel due to weather conditions.

Students are to be prepared and ready to work and learn and if attitude does not reflect that they are also dismissed.

There are NO REFUNDS.

I tell you all this because as hard-nosed as this instructor is she has a waiting list even to get into her group lessons. Private lessons are by invitation ONLY.


Your time is worth being paid for. If these kids did not need your services as a tutor then they would not have inquired. Therefore, it is important that you remember that and get paid accordingly for your time and effort.

Were it me......I would cut them loose and be glad that you won't have to deal with them. If this is the way they behave on their first couple of appointments I am sure you would be jerked around worse later.

 

[silverwhisper]

erika, good call.

ed

 

[SweetErika]

<snip>
I tell you all this because as hard-nosed as this instructor is she has a waiting list even to get into her group lessons. Private lessons are by invitation ONLY.

Your time is worth being paid for. If these kids did not need your services as a tutor then they would not have inquired. Therefore, it is important that you remember that and get paid accordingly for your time and effort.

Were it me......I would cut them loose and be glad that you won't have to deal with them. If this is the way they behave on their first couple of appointments I am sure you would be jerked around worse later.

Thanks, IV...I certainly appreciate it, and agree with you. I'm working on revising my policies this week, so hopefully I won't encounter these problems in the future.

 

[capricious_chic]

I think this is really sound advice that I'm going to take for new clients. You're right, my time is valuable, and paying in advance would show that and be a big deterrent to cancel.

I know your time is valuable and you're not giving legal advice here, but do you think (provided I change my policy to pay-in-advance) a term like: The tutor reserves the right to cancel the session if the student arrives with a contagious illness such as Pink Eye, Strep Throat, or a symptomatic cold, flu, or other virus. The student will still be charged for the session, but can avoid charges by giving at least 6 hours notice s/he will miss the session due to a contagious illness. With advance notice, the student will be allowed two sudden and/or contagious illness cancellations per 16 sessions without charges. Additional cancellations will only be excused if a doctor's note verifying the student is too ill or contagious to attend tutoring is provided to the tutor upon request. The tutor will also follow this policy yada yada yada...
will work alright? The point would clearly be to give me an out to limit my exposure if the kid comes as sick as the three did last week (and lo and behold, I have the SAME symptoms right now), while elminating "illness" as a viable and frequent excuse for irresponsibility.

Believe me, I put EVERYTHING in writing, and really value contracts. I'm sure they will save me a ton someday.

About the contagious illness thing - most all places that deal w/children have a policy that states 24 hours fever free and (or as well as) on antibiotics. Children can be ill/symptomatic (coughing, sneezing, etc.) but as long as they have been fever free I don't know of any place that would refuse them.

Many illnesses can take days or weeks to recover from and while I can appreciate the need on your part to stay healthy - most health care providers agree that as long as a child is on antibiotics and has been fever free for 24 hrs. then they need to carry on w/life as usual and aren't contagious.

 

[SweetErika]

About the contagious illness thing - most all places that deal w/children have a policy that states 24 hours fever free and (or as well as) on antibiotics. Children can be ill/symptomatic (coughing, sneezing, etc.) but as long as they have been fever free I don't know of any place that would refuse them.

Many illnesses can take days or weeks to recover from and while I can appreciate the need on your part to stay healthy - most health care providers agree that as long as a child is on antibiotics and has been fever free for 24 hrs. then they need to carry on w/life as usual and aren't contagious.

Having never dealt with daycare as an adult, I didn't know the specifics. Thanks for the info, capricious_chic...I'll integrate this into my policies!

 

[capricious_chic]

Having never dealt with daycare as an adult, I didn't know the specifics. Thanks for the info, capricious_chic...I'll integrate this into my policies!

You're very welcome.

I am coming from the parent end and that has always been the guidelines for every school they have attended as well as doctor orders.

I have some supplemental staff for my oldest son. All of my staff is paid once a month and always a month in advance. There are no refunds for times missed - although many times, because I am a good client w/an excellent record of paying, if they can swing it we have "make up" days/hours if we have to miss unexpectedly and if not, I have no complaint because I know that as an employee I expect to get paid sick days.

Of course our schedule is X amount of hours per month instead of particular days and while they are typically the same days each month I have insisted and been offered some flexibility to allow for vacations (mine and theirs) as well as illnesses. As long as I get the hours that I have paid for then I have no complaint and as long as I let them know my schedule a month in advance (always when I pay) it has never been a problem to adjust as needed to accommodate and my staff is secure in the knowledge that they have been paid fairly for billable hours.

Good luck in finding better clients than the last! Implementing a pay ahead schedule would more than likely weed out those that were not as serious about your time and theirs as you need them to be to guarantee a steady income.

 

[jethrobodeen]

On to bigger and better things, eh?

To forget what is past and look to what lies ahead....

Also, make sure you're charging enough for your time. Lot's of SE like us undervalue the sum total of our uniqueness of knowledge and experience. I command a high price for my time and I cut loose crazy clients occaisionally. In the IT and telecom world, downtime is lost money and SLAs and response guarantees go into the mix, but when they ignore the agreement, a) cut em loose as a cost of doing business, b) renogiatiate the agreement to your mutual benefit with applicable performances for them like "upon payment of 50% of the balance owed" early to make sure they're authentic which you have, or c) take em to court. Especially when it costs you out of pocket.

Use the 80/20 rule, babe.

-JB