Death of Wooing?

[ownedsubgal]

How did you get to know your PYL inside and out prior to his becoming your PYL?

we were casual friends, then Mentor and mentee, then really good friends. in that natural progression we got to know one another very well and completely without facades or expectations. we liked one another for who we really were, warts and all, not for any shiny and pretty posed versions of ourselves. imo any solid and sincere romantic/love relationship must have a foundation of real friendship, and friendship is just not something you can plan or force.

 

[intothewoods]

we were casual friends, then Mentor and mentee, then really good friends. in that natural progression we got to know one another very well and completely without facades or expectations. we liked one another for who we really were, warts and all, not for any shiny and pretty posed versions of ourselves. imo any solid and sincere romantic/love relationship must have a foundation of real friendship, and friendship is just not something you can plan or force.

Cool. I'm personally in favor of dating or getting to know the person in some way, but that dating need not be pomp and circumstance. It can just be going to the movies.

 

[the captians wench]

I don't know, a couple of my really good friends are people I met and went out with in a bit of a pomp and curcumstance kind of way.

We had fun, we enjoyed each other, lots of hot sex, but the romantic aspect just didn't last, so they went on the buddy list. *shrug*

Now I did go out with a guy once who was set on the first date on making me "his" and for us to be together forever. He told me how many children we'd have and where we'd live and everything!

that was a bit far.

 

[eastern sun]

I definitely understand this. I wasn't talking about just some random person on the street.

I'm interested to see what you mean by non-public, free ways to show interest are. Because honestly, I think some flowers (not like a $100 bouquet or anything, but just a simple little thing of 'em) would be a nice way to say "hey, I am interested in you." I personally felt sorry for both of them; my female friend because she did feel pressured into the situation, and also for the guy because he ended up going out on a limb for her at it backfired.

I definitely like that term.

Where do people draw the line between showing you're interest in someone, and pressuring them into a situation?

I've been given flowers from a stranger on the street. And there was no pressure at all. Just an exchange. I was charmed and wore a big smile for a long time. It made me feel attractive.

I've been given flowers and other little gifts from someone who I knew wanted to be in a relationship, and I knew I wasn't going to choose him (my husband and I were planning our marriage at the time). Those gifts made me feel sad, because I knew I was only going to hurt him. But I still let him know how much I appreciated his interest.

 

[eastern sun]

we were casual friends, then Mentor and mentee, then really good friends. in that natural progression we got to know one another very well and completely without facades or expectations. we liked one another for who we really were, warts and all, not for any shiny and pretty posed versions of ourselves. imo any solid and sincere romantic/love relationship must have a foundation of real friendship, and friendship is just not something you can plan or force.

This is how my relationship with my husband developed too. Except that we worked together, and he was assigned the task of training me when I first arrived.

The only other man I even thought of marrying was someone I had known since I was a kid, and had a crush on since I was eight years old. We had a chance to consummate our relationship in our 20's, and boy, did I like him.

Having been someone who always fucked on the first date, it's interesting to me that the only relationships I was interested in long-term were the ones that took the longest to initiate.

 

[graceanne]

My stepdad and K's brother were best friends. I knew K's family before I knew him (he was living in Texas then). I was fifteen when he moved to Oregon, but nothing romantic happened. We didn't start dating until several months after I graduated from high school. Things moved kinda fast after that, but honestly, we'd known each other for 3 years by then. It's not like we were strangers.

 

[nh23]

but I do woo.

Yes, I know. I am girl. Woop de do. I believe that everyone deserves to be treated with repect and honor. That makes me a gentleman. (grins)

I have been with baby girl for over a year and a half. I text her at least 3 to 4 times a day because she needs to know when I am thinking of her. I buy her small gifts for no reason because I know the sorts of things she likes. We spend time cuddling because nothing beats a good snuggle. (and yes, I give flowers...)

When I was with my children's father (over 15 years off and on) I did the same sorts of things for him. Relationships should not end the wooing, a serious relationship should make the wooing BETTER.

Do I think wooing has went the way of the Dinah Shore show? No, but I do think we adults tend to rush things.

*pouts* I want Luna to woo me.

 

[00Syd]

I really distrust romance prior to sex as a means to get sex. Ew.

I'm much more comfortable with the "let's fuck, and if I like you maybe you can leave a toothbrush here and you know, come over again" kind of thing.

Wooing, to me, is best done concurrent with that heavily drugged first month of boinking. Not as a way to buy sex.

Seconded.

 

[CurlyKat]

I really distrust romance prior to sex as a means to get sex. Ew.

I'm much more comfortable with the "let's fuck, and if I like you maybe you can leave a toothbrush here and you know, come over again" kind of thing.

Wooing, to me, is best done concurrent with that heavily drugged first month of boinking. Not as a way to buy sex.

I don't see wooing in its true sense as a way to try to get sex out of someone. I see it more in the relational aspect, as in one person trying to prove to the other that he's good enough to win her over. While obviously we're all sexual beings and sex will eventually become a part of it and may be a consideration since chances are he finds this person attractive, wooing is more about landing that relationship and caring more about that than about if he gets laid or not.

At least that's when it starts. It continues on, after he's won the girl over (in our little example), to keep assuring her (at first) that she made the right decision and he's worth it. The act of wooing proves that the person being wooed is worth the time and effort put into it. Once she's really his for good the little follow-up acts just reinforce that "you're worth it, you're special" message that's sometimes hard to totally convince someone of with just words. Those actions speak tremendously.

That might be viewed by some as an overly romantic dream that's completely unrealistic, but that's how I've always viewed it. I think that showing that kind of interest, especially if it's unwavering interest before AND after sex, is what really can build and strengthen a relationship. This really is my view as far as relationships go... casual sex is a totally different ball game.

 

[Tawny_Temptress]

I definitely understand this. I wasn't talking about just some random person on the street.

I'm interested to see what you mean by non-public, free ways to show interest are. Because honestly, I think some flowers (not like a $100 bouquet or anything, but just a simple little thing of 'em) would be a nice way to say "hey, I am interested in you." I personally felt sorry for both of them; my female friend because she did feel pressured into the situation, and also for the guy because he ended up going out on a limb for her at it backfired.


I definitely like that term.



Where do people draw the line between showing you're interest in someone, and pressuring them into a situation?

I understand you didnt mean a random person sending flowers. What I meant was that there are times that you go places with males but it isnt a date, just as pals. Instead of the pal sending flowers, they can maybe bring it up when you all are together and you all can discuss it.

Pressure comes when you say "I am not interested" and the guy keeps on and on.

I have wanted to change a friendship and have been the one persuing. I am not aggressive about it. If they dont seem interested I back off. The problem there is some of th guys had no idea that they were being persued. Apparently I was too subtle about it. One they knew it always went real well..

 

[DiscusDave]

I understand you didnt mean a random person sending flowers. What I meant was that there are times that you go places with males but it isnt a date, just as pals. Instead of the pal sending flowers, they can maybe bring it up when you all are together and you all can discuss it.

Pressure comes when you say "I am not interested" and the guy keeps on and on.

I have wanted to change a friendship and have been the one persuing. I am not aggressive about it. If they dont seem interested I back off. The problem there is some of th guys had no idea that they were being persued. Apparently I was too subtle about it. One they knew it always went real well..

Maybe you should be buying flowers too. That way you won't be as subtle. Otherwise, you're like the ninja of wooing. Hehe.

 

[Mia_Iris]

Courtship in its traditional sense is unheard of in this modern age. Even dating has lost it's significance with the invention of speed-dating.

People are usually pursued (or interest is expressed towards someone and then reciprocated likewise) before they start dating exclusively not long afterwards. At least that has been my experience thus far.

We seem to bypass the wooing stage or forget the importance of the courtship. It's a pity when relationships are only a destination rather than a journey together.

 

[ImOnIt]

Courtship in its traditional sense is unheard of in this modern age.

Have you ever courted someone? Letters and blushing and patience? Its pretty awesome.

Even dating has lost it's significance with the invention of speed-dating.

Speed dating is about meeting people as far as i know, and without any experience it sounds pretty close to hell. Re - used care salesmen.

 

[PertPerth]

Speed dating is about meeting people as far as i know, and without any experience it sounds pretty close to hell. Re - used care salesmen.

I can't help but feel that speed-dating and internet-dating are making people nonchalant about dating (and people for that matter). It builds up the theory that there is "plenty of fish in the sea", so if one fish doesn't quite meet the mark, throw it back for another one. This of course, leads to less effort put into the relationship...and the relationship falling over pretty early. Or at least, that has been my experience.


I would love to be wooed - without the modern day twist!

 

[StrayKat]

I can't help but feel that speed-dating and internet-dating are making people nonchalant about dating (and people for that matter). It builds up the theory that there is "plenty of fish in the sea", so if one fish doesn't quite meet the mark, throw it back for another one. This of course, leads to less effort put into the relationship...and the relationship falling over pretty early. Or at least, that has been my experience.


I would love to be wooed - without the modern day twist!

I see nothing wrong with looking for another fish if I dont like the first one. Why would I put effort in relationship with someone I dont truly like? I am picky but I dont think thats wrong. There is plenty of fish in the sea, no reason to be satisfied with second rate ones.

That said, I dont think I have unrealistic expectations or lack of patience to make something work. I just need to be sure that something is worth my effort.
I was married first time for almost 18 years and now I am in second marriage that will soon reach 8 years, thats quite amount of effort made. I do start to wonder what would it be like to be single for a change

 

[sb2009]

I don't know about dating wooing - when I met my husband, we hit it off immediately, and went on lots of dates to have fun, and after a few months decided to be exclusive.

I konw that the everyday married wooing is different. Cheezy as it sounds, it's like that "five languages of love" theory. He likes to do things for me - make things with his woodworking tools, fix things, make improvements to our home that I've mentioned, things like that. He's REALLY good at making paddles and restraints as well.

So that is the kind of wooing he prefers, which is totally opposite of me - I actually prefer to be told things - how much he loves me, how he appreciates me, how stunning I am (ha ha).

So it's a give-and take. I do the little things that make his life easier, he does things for me, I give him verbal feedback and he remembers (with some prompting) that verbal affection is what really makes me happy.

But our system isn't always perfect, even after 14 years, so it's the whole constant communication thing.

For a while we lived overseas where flowers were incredibly cheap and he brought them home to me all the time and it was sweet.

 

[Netzach]

I don't see wooing in its true sense as a way to try to get sex out of someone. I see it more in the relational aspect, as in one person trying to prove to the other that he's good enough to win her over. While obviously we're all sexual beings and sex will eventually become a part of it and may be a consideration since chances are he finds this person attractive, wooing is more about landing that relationship and caring more about that than about if he gets laid or not.

At least that's when it starts. It continues on, after he's won the girl over (in our little example), to keep assuring her (at first) that she made the right decision and he's worth it. The act of wooing proves that the person being wooed is worth the time and effort put into it. Once she's really his for good the little follow-up acts just reinforce that "you're worth it, you're special" message that's sometimes hard to totally convince someone of with just words. Those actions speak tremendously.

That might be viewed by some as an overly romantic dream that's completely unrealistic, but that's how I've always viewed it. I think that showing that kind of interest, especially if it's unwavering interest before AND after sex, is what really can build and strengthen a relationship. This really is my view as far as relationships go... casual sex is a totally different ball game.

I'm boringly serious, even in the romantic relationships.

It's not to say I don't understand or like the "little things" stuff. It's just that until BIG things are encountered, I don't feel like the proof has been made.

M married me during the first flareup of my disease. Life is short and we wanted to be married. I was wed at court, in a black suit, swollen and miserable, and happier than I could ever be.

I am MUCH MUCH more reassured by the fact that T is steering me through a bout of disease with phone calls and visits.

When he fails to answer a love letter, I'm totally happy to blow that off when I think about times like this.

I've accepted things about him that are unacceptable to most people. I've toughed out long nights of crazy in my marriage. It's not that I'm a pure taker, either, I just don't like to get into the stuff I do because I don't like to expose my fluffy underside.

 

[CurlyKat]

I don't know about dating wooing - when I met my husband, we hit it off immediately, and went on lots of dates to have fun, and after a few months decided to be exclusive.

I konw that the everyday married wooing is different. Cheezy as it sounds, it's like that "five languages of love" theory. He likes to do things for me - make things with his woodworking tools, fix things, make improvements to our home that I've mentioned, things like that. He's REALLY good at making paddles and restraints as well.

So that is the kind of wooing he prefers, which is totally opposite of me - I actually prefer to be told things - how much he loves me, how he appreciates me, how stunning I am (ha ha).

So it's a give-and take. I do the little things that make his life easier, he does things for me, I give him verbal feedback and he remembers (with some prompting) that verbal affection is what really makes me happy.

But our system isn't always perfect, even after 14 years, so it's the whole constant communication thing.

For a while we lived overseas where flowers were incredibly cheap and he brought them home to me all the time and it was sweet.

This is a really good example. Different people do have different ways that they "know" how to express love, appreciation, and affection towards their significant other. The hard part is learning to understand a different method in order to accurately convey those expressions to someone else. It seems like y'all have a good balance and understanding.

You also bring up the "constant communication thing." I think that's the most vital part of continually winning over your loved one.