Sweeps: How Common is Losing 5s?

[LargoKitt]

I think most of us like our stories, and would rate them 5*. They tell the stories we want to read, after all, and in a style we enjoy. We wouldn't publish them if we didn't think they were worth it.

If a reader votes 5*, they're just agreeing with us. We don't require them to justify that, because they're simply reinforcing our own opinion. It's nice to hear precisely what they liked, but overall we accept their vote because it reflects what we would vote as well. It's the lower votes that we question because we disagree with them.

Strictly speaking, if the average score was in fact 3*, as authors we might be more inclined to say, "You know, this story isn't my best work, I'd rate it 4*." And if someone gives it 5* we'd probably like to hear why.

Scanning my stuff I realize that several of the lower rated stories are 'better literary work' but they are probably less sexy. If the default 'gong button' is that it wasn't sexy enuf, then, yeah, the rating is right and also I'll take it.

 

[LargoKitt]

I don't buy that at all. You know why you like something just as easily as you know why you don't like something. Even if it's something that you can't quite put your finger on. It's that 'it' factor. Just as sometimes you read something and there's nothing really wrong with it, but it just doesn't have that 'it' factor. It's not grabbing you. And whether or not it has 'it' or a bit of 'it' or not, upon a deeper reflection, you can see all the things that you did or didn't like and add them up.

Hmm, as writers many of us are going to evaluated a story on whether it's good writing. I spent many years as a professional editor. But on *this* site many are willing to forgive sloppy writing if the premise and development is hot. And there are obviously 'unspoken expectations' in a genre, and you fuck with them at your peril.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Hmm, as writers many of us are going to evaluated a story on whether it's good writing. I spent many years as a professional editor. But on *this* site many are willing to forgive sloppy writing if the premise and development is hot. And there are obviously 'unspoken expectations' in a genre, and you fuck with them at your peril.

Then why does it matter to be explained if the score is 5 or low? If your statement is true, the score should not make a difference as to whether an explanation is wanting for the rating.

Curious thing is that some readers do explain their five, or say they want to give it a ten. Nice ego boost.

Yep, that's what it is.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Scanning my stuff I realize that several of the lower rated stories are 'better literary work' but they are probably less sexy. If the default 'gong button' is that it wasn't sexy enuf, then, yeah, the rating is right and also I'll take it.

I've argues that and been absolutely shit on for it. I've said the exact same thing and been villified as the worst person in the AH for it by some very nice and wise people. (eyeroll)

 

[LargoKitt]

I've argues that and been absolutely shit on for it. I've said the exact same thing and been villified as the worst person in the AH for it by some very nice and wise people. (eyeroll)

SSL, you get pushback partly for the *way* you put stuff forward. I had a friend/employer who dealt with shit by being ready to get in the ring and scrap. You win some moves and you feel good. Different ish from what is true and what ain't and all that mishigosh. I respect the need to wrestle and the need to get to the nut of it. Sometimes two different games in the same arena.

 

[LargoKitt]

Then why does it matter to be explained if the score is 5 or low? If your statement is true, the score should not make a difference as to whether an explanation is wanting for the rating.



Yep, that's what it is.

Information. As a little kid doing a dance for the crowd one wants the applause. But as a writer, who was maybe trying something different it is *useful* to know why it fell flat. Tweak it different in a new story. Never try it again. Do the opposite and see the reaction to that. A story is a dialog. In prehistoric time the griot would watch the faces around the fire.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Information. As a little kid doing a dance for the crowd one wants the applause. But as a writer, who was maybe trying something different it is *useful* to know why it fell flat. Tweak it different in a new story. Never try it again. Do the opposite and see the reaction to that. A story is a dialog. In prehistoric time the griot would watch the faces around the fire.

I don't buy that around here. I'm sure that here and there that may be the case with a handful of us, but I know the culture here and by-and-large this is not true. For the majority of writers here, a 5 is simply accepted as confirmation that the writer is awesome and the reader's judgement is never questioned, but as soon as there's a downvote, that reader needs to explain himself. He either read it wrong, didn't get it, or he's a troll and the writer's ego needs to know which one of those that reader falls into to satisfy the belief that writing was great, reader was dumb.

We hear this crap all the time, "if the reader votes less than 4 he should be forced to give a comment," or "people shouldn't be allowed to vote unless they give enough comments," or "anonymous voting/comments should be banned (so I can track down the asshole who hurt my feelings)" or the best one ... "people who criticize without posting a story of their own shouldn't talk because I have a right to see if their writing is as good as mine."

These are all just excuses to dismiss criticism.

 

[LargoKitt]

Totally agree, by and large. One man's meat is another woman's turkey neck. Feedback can feel good if its an ego boost. It can offer insight into why a story didn't work for that reader. But consider a simple situation. You have a basic story with a romance element. Someone might give it a 3 or 4 because it promised more romance and didn't give it. Same story but some reader was getting all hot but the payoff was too slow. The story was about an extramarital affair and a reader wanted to see revenge, or more humiliation of the legal mate. Or the reader had a shitty day at work. I'm grateful when a story rests somewhere above 4 because I know it did its job. If it is mid 3s I know that tells me I 'broke the rules' a little.

 

[LargoKitt]

BTW, my ego tells me my stories are better written than 3/4 of the stuff on Literotica. None of them have been a 'best seller' as far as I know. Lots with fine ratings have very few viewers. Some with tons of viewers have modest ratings. I don't do contests or themes much. So I guess it's about having a story idea that I like and building some interesting people into it.

 

[StillStunned]

BTW, my ego tells me my stories are better written than 3/4 of the stuff on Literotica.

Our ego always tells us that, because the stories we write are the stories we want to read, in the style we like with characters we like reading about. I myself think my stories are the best ever, but I've never come close to winning a contest, or sticking around at the business end of a top list, nor got a green E from Laurel (may she live forever).

Does that mean my stories aren't as good as I think they are? Does it mean that they're not reaching the right audience, or that they're not right for the audience they do reach? Is it all a matter of luck? Are stories that I consider less well written in fact better than mine, because they evoke the right response from their readers?

Most of all: does it matter? And the answer to that, for now at least, is no.

 

[BeechLeaf]

It's partly a selection bias. All of us in the Authors' Hangout are likely to think our stories are at least better than average, and this is actually likely to be true - because mostly, only reasonably good and thoughtful writers would bother to hang out here and discuss this stuff ad infinitum. Everyone likes their own stories but only certain people would seek out a specialist authors' forum.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Totally agree, by and large. One man's meat is another woman's turkey neck. Feedback can feel good if its an ego boost. It can offer insight into why a story didn't work for that reader. But consider a simple situation. You have a basic story with a romance element. Someone might give it a 3 or 4 because it promised more romance and didn't give it. Same story but some reader was getting all hot but the payoff was too slow. The story was about an extramarital affair and a reader wanted to see revenge, or more humiliation of the legal mate. Or the reader had a shitty day at work. I'm grateful when a story rests somewhere above 4 because I know it did its job. If it is mid 3s I know that tells me I 'broke the rules' a little.

Certainly we would all love to know why someone voted our story a 3 or what have you, and a few of us do genuinely care because we want to know what worked and what didn't, what pressed the right buttons for the reader and what didn't, but those few of us are really the only ones who also want to know why someone gave us a 5, did we really give you a gripping story or did we just give you your fave kink, or do you just have a thing for our character because she happened to be a big-tiddy-blonde in heels?

Most writers here need to know why the downvote happened but do not care why they got a 5. The 5 is just assumed to confirm their awesomeness.

 

[LargoKitt]

It's partly a selection bias. All of us in the Authors' Hangout are likely to think our stories are at least better than average, and this is actually likely to be true - because mostly, only reasonably good and thoughtful writers would bother to hang out here and discuss this stuff ad infinitum. Everyone likes their own stories but only certain people would seek out a specialist authors' forum.

This raises an interesting mental challenge. Clearly, people come here because they like stories that turn them on. Maybe for most that is just another spicy M&M. Don't mess with the formula (like making M&Ms spicy?) But as a writer it is fun to crack the mold a little; to add some new element. My succubus in the Daughter of Lilith series is not a devilish creature who wants to destroy men's souls. But she's a succubus. She can be dangerous. But she can also be a woman who is all about her own sexuality. Nice big playground there. But those seeking horror stories will be disappointed.

 

[SmilingLez]

It's partly a selection bias. All of us in the Authors' Hangout are likely to think our stories are at least better than average, and this is actually likely to be true - because mostly, only reasonably good and thoughtful writers would bother to hang out here and discuss this stuff ad infinitum. Everyone likes their own stories but only certain people would seek out a specialist authors' forum.

Subject matter aside, I wouldn't be surprised if 30% or more of the stories on Literotica have spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. errors. So yes, construction wise my stories are better than most. Not ego - fact. I take the time to correct any mistakes before submitting.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Subject matter aside, I wouldn't be surprised if 30% or more of the stories on Literotica have spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. errors. So yes, construction wise my stories are better than most. Not ego - fact. I take the time to correct any mistakes before submitting.

Every single story have published here has at least one typo. Despite the long suffering @Djmac1031’s efforts. Despite my own multiple read throughs. Despite me using iOS Speak to listen to the text. Despite my wonderful and varied beta readers. It’s the nature of the beast.

But some stories have five typos in the opening paragraph .

 

[SmilingLez]

Every single story have published here has at least one typo. Despite the long suffering @Djmac1031’s efforts. Despite my own multiple read throughs. Despite me using iOS Speak to listen to the text. Despite my wonderful and varied beta readers. It’s the nature of the beast.

But some stories have five typos in the opening paragraph .

So you are excusing typos then?

 

[EmilyMiller]

So you are excusing typos then?

I’m unclear how you draw that conclusion…

 

[alohadave]

So you are excusing typos then?

Everything has typos. It's impossible to avoid them. Noting the phenomenon does not equal excusing them.

 

[SmilingLez]

Every single story have published here has at least one typo. Despite the long suffering @Djmac1031’s efforts. Despite my own multiple read throughs. Despite me using iOS Speak to listen to the text. Despite my wonderful and varied beta readers. It’s the nature of the beast.

But some stories have five typos in the opening paragraph .

I’m unclear how you draw that conclusion…

From your first reply, it's obvious that you have read stories with typos (and probably other errors). Then you said it's the nature of the beast (which I disagree with, to me it is carelessness) That's how I drew my conclusion. If it is wrong, my apologies.

 

[SmilingLez]

Everything has typos. It's impossible to avoid them. Noting the phenomenon does not equal excusing them.

You are making a generalization which is false. Not everything has typos. To me it's being careless. YMMV

 

[EmilyMiller]

From your first reply, it's obvious that you have read stories with typos (and probably other errors). Then you said it's the nature of the beast (which I disagree with, to me it is carelessness) That's how I drew my conclusion. If it is wrong, my apologies.

I gave you an example of how anally retentive I am about typos - and yet my work contains them.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You are making a generalization which is false. Not everything has typos. To me it's being careless. YMMV

Bailing on this convo…

 

[SmilingLez]

I gave you an example of how anally retentive I am about typos - and yet my work contains them.

Then I misunderstood

 

[StrentWriter]

I’m grateful for reading this thread this evening as it has made me feel a bit better about the downvoting I’ve got on my last round of chapters.

One of the comments above is “more literary, lower scores” or something to that effect and I realise, because I’m writing a novel, and not every chapter has an explicit sex scene, that it’s a case of building to the ones which do.

They are all, I find, higher rated.

And that was an epiphany for me but would probably have been a “the sky is blue” moment for someone else!

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’m grateful for reading this thread this evening as it has made me feel a bit better about the downvoting I’ve got on my last round of chapters.

One of the comments above is “more literary, lower scores” or something to that effect and I realise, because I’m writing a novel, and not every chapter has an explicit sex scene, that it’s a case of building to the ones which do.

They are all, I find, higher rated.

And that was an epiphany for me but would probably have been a “the sky is blue” moment for someone else!

Call me when you have 184 downvotes removed from seven stories in two weeks