Delving the Psyche of Sadists
- Thread starter RJMasters
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AngelicAssassin
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Are we going to do this intimacy thing ... AGAIN?RJMasters said:
AngelicAssassin
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Wicked Grin
It's actually nothing but a pendulum stroke varying in intenisty at your discretion.
Remove your rings, and check your nail lengths.
If you golf, the forehand should come naturally. You're looking to accelerate the club speed right before the point of impact, so you hold the wrist cocked back slightly. Timing counts here. Snap the wrist too soon, and you'll jam a finger and your target. Snap it too late, and you might as well use a blunt instrument. Get it right and your fingers, primarily the two joints leading away from the palm will hit flat accelerating into the target. Continue the flick just right and you'll get just a touch of nail snick across the field of flame you just laid down.
Backhand is slightly different. As your forehand stroke reaches the top of your follow through, you purposely twist your wrist so your thumb moves away and your pinkie towards you. As the downstroke of the backhand begins, you need to force your ulna and radius to remain twisted as long as you possibly can hold it. Just like the forehand, you're looking for max club head speed at the point of impact. This is where you get the most feedback on what your target feels because of the thiness of the skin on the backs of your fingers. Just before impact you snap the pinkie side of your hand forward to lay the backs of your fingers flat on the target. Too soon, and you'll stove your fingers and stab the target again. Too late and you might club the target with the opposite side of your palm, or wrist instead. Again, done right you can get the trailing *snick* of nails across that field of fire you just laid for a little added juice to the target.
Make sense?
Depending on intent, the pain threshold of the target and you, you can lay a wonderfully rosey glow up down a thigh, across buttocks, soles of the feet, etc. Or ... you can concentrate in one area and see whom collapses first.
Quite welcome.RJMasters said:
It's actually nothing but a pendulum stroke varying in intenisty at your discretion.
Remove your rings, and check your nail lengths.
If you golf, the forehand should come naturally. You're looking to accelerate the club speed right before the point of impact, so you hold the wrist cocked back slightly. Timing counts here. Snap the wrist too soon, and you'll jam a finger and your target. Snap it too late, and you might as well use a blunt instrument. Get it right and your fingers, primarily the two joints leading away from the palm will hit flat accelerating into the target. Continue the flick just right and you'll get just a touch of nail snick across the field of flame you just laid down.
Backhand is slightly different. As your forehand stroke reaches the top of your follow through, you purposely twist your wrist so your thumb moves away and your pinkie towards you. As the downstroke of the backhand begins, you need to force your ulna and radius to remain twisted as long as you possibly can hold it. Just like the forehand, you're looking for max club head speed at the point of impact. This is where you get the most feedback on what your target feels because of the thiness of the skin on the backs of your fingers. Just before impact you snap the pinkie side of your hand forward to lay the backs of your fingers flat on the target. Too soon, and you'll stove your fingers and stab the target again. Too late and you might club the target with the opposite side of your palm, or wrist instead. Again, done right you can get the trailing *snick* of nails across that field of fire you just laid for a little added juice to the target.
Make sense?
Depending on intent, the pain threshold of the target and you, you can lay a wonderfully rosey glow up down a thigh, across buttocks, soles of the feet, etc. Or ... you can concentrate in one area and see whom collapses first.
G
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AngelicAssassin said:
One should not fear intimacy...
*sigh*
Knives...Knives are so wonderfully intimate.....
AngelicAssassin
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Re: Re: Wicked Grin
Remember, remove the rings.
If you don't, you'll leave welts on the target, unless that's your intent, but worse possibly swell the hell out of your fingers to the point of pain if constricted by the ring(s).
Depends on how much rhythmn you have in your blood, bro.RJMasters said:Yeah sounds like playing hambone in 2/4 time
Thanks
Remember, remove the rings.
If you don't, you'll leave welts on the target, unless that's your intent, but worse possibly swell the hell out of your fingers to the point of pain if constricted by the ring(s).
AngelicAssassin
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Chuckling.RJMasters said:
Ever heard of a vampire glove? i think JamesG5 posted one not long ago.
G
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RJMasters said:
Seen em...
*grin* But....
And ona more general bit of Sadistic glee......
How much of a role, if any, do you find that the inspiration of anticipation, plays in your sadism?
Or in play of a more general, less extreme variety?
Personally I have always found it to be.........Motivating...
AngelicAssassin
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Multiple threads, but it was Snoozebutton, not James.RJMasters said:i did a search on JamesG5 and vampire And glove...no luck... no I haven't seen one.
Heading to google now.
SWEET!
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173867&highlight=vampire+AND+glove
and here's a set from one of the links:
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CutieMouse
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eeps.
RJMasters
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AngelicAssassin said:
Mouth watering....
Imagining the look in the eyes as you put these on slowly...as the last thing seen before the blindfold goes on.
Dragged lightly over the skin perusing certain soft squeezable curves...
The only thing I keep thinking of is the how much fun it would be to tear, peel and otherwise rip fishnet stockings off a lovely pair of legs with these.
Damn now I am hungry!
catalina_francisco
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RJMasters said:
LOL, so is this an interest developing in abrasion? Seen our thread? (https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218774)
Catalina
RJMasters
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catalina_francisco said:LOL, so is this an interest developing in abrasion? Seen our thread? (https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218774)
Catalina
Hmmm abrasions....Interesting....Just read that thread.
I think I see these gloves more like scratching or gripping. Like the accidental scratches
that would occur as my hands got all tangled up in the fishnet and had to use brute strength to rip them free. Little nicks and scraps in various palces up and down the legs. Some light, some a bit deeper.Also, I think I would enjoy gripping the waist from behind and watching both the pleasure and the pain as both hands clamp tighter.
Lastly I see them used again from behind to reach forward and grab hold of the back of the shoulder area pressing downwards.
I see abrasions a slight bit different, but after reading the thread, it does sound worth thinking on.
TY for sharing that thread.
Pure
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{revised in several details, 11-22-04, 1:20 pm EST.}
Hi Francisco,
I for one do not believe in only 2 or 3 types of sadist,
I don't believe anyone in this thread, said this.
like I do not believe there are only 2 or 3 types of personalities in life.
Good.
When trying to make facsimiles we always try to simplify matters and characterize our subjects in such a way that we can try making a basic model. That however is an approach that has lead Freud and others to make conclusions about sadism that are not based on reality but on their own preconceptions.
You deal in concepts, just like anyone else. Yes, there are deeply flawed systems, but dealing with concepts and categories is not, as such, a source of theoretical errors. All human thought, of course, has shortcomings in grasping or describing reality.
If there is one thing I have learned in my short life it is that we are all individuals,
Every diabetic person is an individual, but there are types of diabetes, and general criteria defining a 'diabetic' category of illness. Every manic-depressive person is an individual, but the category helps determine what might be effective medication. But of course some people fall in gray areas.
Originally posted by catalina_francisco
.. all subjects that although interesting to talk about and although may be interesting to fantasize about, they are not part of what I consider to be a BDSM sadist.
Francisco.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angelic said, Unless you're Bytor, or someone with a vested interest in keeping the DSMV in print.
Not quite so simple, angelic. Unfortunately, unless a new word is coined, Francisco is not entirely free in constructing 'a BDSM sadist' at will, to suit himself or his associates. (Hey, I thought everyone was individual; hence there is no 'BDSM sadist').
Psychiatry intersects criminology and law. So I'd say it's more than 'interesting', Francisco and Angelic, where you yourself may be jailed under those definitions, which happen not to be of particular 'interest' to you.
If you've read the famous Brown case in England (involving jailing homosexual 'bdsm' persons), you know that *your* favorite terminology has a relationship that of 'the authorities'. "Sadist" has a DSM IV definition which arises in courts; it has a common definition which arises is newspapers routinely. Would it not be foolhardy NOT acknowledge facts of law, and facts of usage.
Further, the DSM IV definition is NOT worlds apart from some 'individual' characteristics posted in this thread. e.g., arousal or sexual pleasure in inflicting pain.
Neither is the 'BDSM sadist' (or the collection of these individuals) always worlds apart from an abuser. Anyone reading this forum over the years and months has seen something that says 'bdsm' and creates the reaction (in oneself) 'no, that's abuse' or even 'that's sick.' And indeed some activities happily recounted here in celebration of 'consensual bdsm' just don't happen to qualify as consensual, in many courts. Would that be of any particular interest?
(NOTE to RJ: Neither is it simply a matter of consent. (It's not sufficient for Francisco to propose that a 'bdsm sadist' is identical to 'sadist who acts safely, sanely and with consent'). Domestic abuse/violence is often 'consented' to, in the ordinary (nonlegal) sense. That's why the testimony of the abused is often disregarded in a domestic violence case (The wife who says, "I'm not abused." Or, "I deserved it.") )
It's possible, of course, to invert a word's value connotations or massage its meaning, as in "I'm a queer; get used to it." Or, "Yes, I'm a kike." One can say "I'm a good terrorist; I'm Nelson Mandela" But then there's a lot of explaining in talking to ordinary people (One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, etc.). And one may end up trying to explain to a judge why, although one's actions fit the criteria on the books, one is nevertheless a noble and conscientious person.
Anyway, just a little frustrated. Feel free in your uninterest in these matters. Call when you need bail.
Hi Francisco,
I for one do not believe in only 2 or 3 types of sadist,
I don't believe anyone in this thread, said this.
like I do not believe there are only 2 or 3 types of personalities in life.
Good.
When trying to make facsimiles we always try to simplify matters and characterize our subjects in such a way that we can try making a basic model. That however is an approach that has lead Freud and others to make conclusions about sadism that are not based on reality but on their own preconceptions.
You deal in concepts, just like anyone else. Yes, there are deeply flawed systems, but dealing with concepts and categories is not, as such, a source of theoretical errors. All human thought, of course, has shortcomings in grasping or describing reality.
If there is one thing I have learned in my short life it is that we are all individuals,
Every diabetic person is an individual, but there are types of diabetes, and general criteria defining a 'diabetic' category of illness. Every manic-depressive person is an individual, but the category helps determine what might be effective medication. But of course some people fall in gray areas.
Originally posted by catalina_francisco
.. all subjects that although interesting to talk about and although may be interesting to fantasize about, they are not part of what I consider to be a BDSM sadist.
Francisco.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angelic said, Unless you're Bytor, or someone with a vested interest in keeping the DSMV in print.
Not quite so simple, angelic. Unfortunately, unless a new word is coined, Francisco is not entirely free in constructing 'a BDSM sadist' at will, to suit himself or his associates. (Hey, I thought everyone was individual; hence there is no 'BDSM sadist').
Psychiatry intersects criminology and law. So I'd say it's more than 'interesting', Francisco and Angelic, where you yourself may be jailed under those definitions, which happen not to be of particular 'interest' to you.
If you've read the famous Brown case in England (involving jailing homosexual 'bdsm' persons), you know that *your* favorite terminology has a relationship that of 'the authorities'. "Sadist" has a DSM IV definition which arises in courts; it has a common definition which arises is newspapers routinely. Would it not be foolhardy NOT acknowledge facts of law, and facts of usage.
Further, the DSM IV definition is NOT worlds apart from some 'individual' characteristics posted in this thread. e.g., arousal or sexual pleasure in inflicting pain.
Neither is the 'BDSM sadist' (or the collection of these individuals) always worlds apart from an abuser. Anyone reading this forum over the years and months has seen something that says 'bdsm' and creates the reaction (in oneself) 'no, that's abuse' or even 'that's sick.' And indeed some activities happily recounted here in celebration of 'consensual bdsm' just don't happen to qualify as consensual, in many courts. Would that be of any particular interest?
(NOTE to RJ: Neither is it simply a matter of consent. (It's not sufficient for Francisco to propose that a 'bdsm sadist' is identical to 'sadist who acts safely, sanely and with consent'). Domestic abuse/violence is often 'consented' to, in the ordinary (nonlegal) sense. That's why the testimony of the abused is often disregarded in a domestic violence case (The wife who says, "I'm not abused." Or, "I deserved it.") )
It's possible, of course, to invert a word's value connotations or massage its meaning, as in "I'm a queer; get used to it." Or, "Yes, I'm a kike." One can say "I'm a good terrorist; I'm Nelson Mandela" But then there's a lot of explaining in talking to ordinary people (One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, etc.). And one may end up trying to explain to a judge why, although one's actions fit the criteria on the books, one is nevertheless a noble and conscientious person.
Anyway, just a little frustrated. Feel free in your uninterest in these matters. Call when you need bail.
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catalina_francisco
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RJMasters said:Hmmm abrasions....Interesting....Just read that thread.
I think I see these gloves more like scratching or gripping. Like the accidental scratches
Also, I think I would enjoy gripping the waist from behind and watching both the pleasure and the pain as both hands clamp tighter.
Lastly I see them used again from behind to reach forward and grab hold of the back of the shoulder area pressing downwards.
I see abrasions a slight bit different, but after reading the thread, it does sound worth thinking on.
TY for sharing that thread.
LOL, depends what you use and how. Our brushes definately scratch deep as they are metal and don't have any give so the level of pressure applied as it drags across the skin determines the depth of scratching or cutting into the flesh. The gloves do have the advantage of being like an extension of the hand though in that they are worn. Either way, pretty bloody patterns can be created and remembered for days to come (at least).
Catalina
AngelicAssassin
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Keep your money for a rainy day. As for your SME parade into a court room, the most obvious answer lies in not getting your @ss drug into a court room to start. What we've discussed so far involves thoughts, some actions, and some beliefs. Not too long ago, some of the things we've discussed passed for de rigueur, especially if practiced by the ruling elite, or governing bodies of tribes, states, and civilizations. The worm turns. It always does.Pure said:
catalina_francisco
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OK Pure, if you want to talk about definitions.
Which definition do you want to discuss? The DSMV has a definition of sexual sadism. The FBI has a definition of criminal sexual sadism. Webster’s dictionary has a definition of sadism.
Every institution has its own definition and terminology. If you want to put salt on a snail's tail then do it correctly. I talk about the kind of sadism I know and which relates to my reality which is BDSM sadism. Most of us have the power of creativity and can combine words together to create new meanings or to clarify the subject they are talking about. It is like the forum you are posting on, it is called BDSM
Talk, is there a definition in Webster's or DSMV?
I am open to discussing BDSM with everyone who has an open mind and is willing to listen to me and expects
the same of me. But I am not going to waste my time in discussing the effects of my so called illness and neither am I interested in curing myself or accepting
that I should be pushed into a corner.
When a connection is made between serial killers and BDSM I am going to express my own thoughts and
opinions. It is my opinion you can agree or disagree, you can have your own opinion or not. But in the country I live in which is The Netherlands I have a
right to have an opinion and I have a right to express it. I have always lived under the impression the same
applied to the USA and other western countries. I even thought that thousands have laid their life down in the USA just to have that right.
That some people look at us, the practitioners of BDSM with disgust, so be it. That we might get thrown into
jail for practicing BDSM so be it. I will not nor can I deny my own nature, I can not nor do I want to comply
with the righteous majority that has already ruled that I am a sick bastard and should be put down.
It was not so long ago that homosexuals were thrown into jail or forced to deny their own nature. It was
not so long ago that women were considered to be inferior to men. It was not so long ago we were like
animals hunting for our own survival living in caves and wearing furs. Humans evolve despite our nature
and normally because a handful of people decide they are not going to be oppressed any longer.
I should thank you for making the connection between Nelson Mandela and I, it is a great compliment
although I do not feel it is a deserved one of course.
Francisco.
Which definition do you want to discuss? The DSMV has a definition of sexual sadism. The FBI has a definition of criminal sexual sadism. Webster’s dictionary has a definition of sadism.
Every institution has its own definition and terminology. If you want to put salt on a snail's tail then do it correctly. I talk about the kind of sadism I know and which relates to my reality which is BDSM sadism. Most of us have the power of creativity and can combine words together to create new meanings or to clarify the subject they are talking about. It is like the forum you are posting on, it is called BDSM
Talk, is there a definition in Webster's or DSMV?
I am open to discussing BDSM with everyone who has an open mind and is willing to listen to me and expects
the same of me. But I am not going to waste my time in discussing the effects of my so called illness and neither am I interested in curing myself or accepting
that I should be pushed into a corner.
When a connection is made between serial killers and BDSM I am going to express my own thoughts and
opinions. It is my opinion you can agree or disagree, you can have your own opinion or not. But in the country I live in which is The Netherlands I have a
right to have an opinion and I have a right to express it. I have always lived under the impression the same
applied to the USA and other western countries. I even thought that thousands have laid their life down in the USA just to have that right.
That some people look at us, the practitioners of BDSM with disgust, so be it. That we might get thrown into
jail for practicing BDSM so be it. I will not nor can I deny my own nature, I can not nor do I want to comply
with the righteous majority that has already ruled that I am a sick bastard and should be put down.
It was not so long ago that homosexuals were thrown into jail or forced to deny their own nature. It was
not so long ago that women were considered to be inferior to men. It was not so long ago we were like
animals hunting for our own survival living in caves and wearing furs. Humans evolve despite our nature
and normally because a handful of people decide they are not going to be oppressed any longer.
I should thank you for making the connection between Nelson Mandela and I, it is a great compliment
although I do not feel it is a deserved one of course.
Francisco.
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Francisco said, When a connection is made between serial killers and BDSM I am going to express my own thoughts and
opinions. It is my opinion you can agree or disagree, you can have your own opinion or not. But in the country I live in which is The Netherlands I have a
right to have an opinion and I have a right to express it.
Is someone trying to take away your right to express yourself? How would I do that? Post something that says, "Francisco is wrong about X" ?
Do you see "a connection... made between serial killers and BDSM"? by me? Quote it, if it exists.
Some sadistic urges, if fully acted on, would bring one to criminality. That sadist practices are, shall we say 'next door' to (in a field adjoining, but fenced off from) criminal behavior has been articulated by at least three posters:
Betticus: //For me the true sadist comes out on the street. In a streetfight where I can put all control aside and fully release that hungry part of me. It's strange to talk about but in that place I lose coherency of thought. There is a ravenous hunger for destruction and no morals at all. I can liken the feeling only really to what novels describe as the extremely erotic act of a vampire sucking a victim dry of life. To see the blood and hear the thick sound of a rib cracking under my knee. To feel the twist and pop of a joint dislocating. It is an undescribable feeling of hunger, lust and power.//
===
Rosco R
//One of the many reasons I like to make people suffer is the triumphant "and now I whip out my cock and piss you you" feeling of sheer Mr. Hyde vengeance it gives me. //
-----
Angelic
//i'm blood thirsty and keep it on a tight leash because i know that about myself.
i know, with the right person, i can take it right to the criminal prosecution edge, dangle her over the abyss, and get off on her not knowing whether i'll let go.//
----
An awareness of the difference, the 'fence' between the fields, has also been expressed by the above posters, and by no less a person than the Marquis de Sade:
"I am a libertine, not a murderer."
----
PS. Francisco, you no doubt have many of the virtues of Nelson M, but are just a bit more short tempered.
opinions. It is my opinion you can agree or disagree, you can have your own opinion or not. But in the country I live in which is The Netherlands I have a
right to have an opinion and I have a right to express it.
Is someone trying to take away your right to express yourself? How would I do that? Post something that says, "Francisco is wrong about X" ?
Do you see "a connection... made between serial killers and BDSM"? by me? Quote it, if it exists.
Some sadistic urges, if fully acted on, would bring one to criminality. That sadist practices are, shall we say 'next door' to (in a field adjoining, but fenced off from) criminal behavior has been articulated by at least three posters:
Betticus: //For me the true sadist comes out on the street. In a streetfight where I can put all control aside and fully release that hungry part of me. It's strange to talk about but in that place I lose coherency of thought. There is a ravenous hunger for destruction and no morals at all. I can liken the feeling only really to what novels describe as the extremely erotic act of a vampire sucking a victim dry of life. To see the blood and hear the thick sound of a rib cracking under my knee. To feel the twist and pop of a joint dislocating. It is an undescribable feeling of hunger, lust and power.//
===
Rosco R
//One of the many reasons I like to make people suffer is the triumphant "and now I whip out my cock and piss you you" feeling of sheer Mr. Hyde vengeance it gives me. //
-----
Angelic
//i'm blood thirsty and keep it on a tight leash because i know that about myself.
i know, with the right person, i can take it right to the criminal prosecution edge, dangle her over the abyss, and get off on her not knowing whether i'll let go.//
----
An awareness of the difference, the 'fence' between the fields, has also been expressed by the above posters, and by no less a person than the Marquis de Sade:
"I am a libertine, not a murderer."
----
PS. Francisco, you no doubt have many of the virtues of Nelson M, but are just a bit more short tempered.
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AngelicAssassin
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And therein lies the difference. It ain't a fence Pure, it's the abyss, but i'll accept your analogy. Where a prosecuter and his SME could decry my behavior for the exercising of mental cruelty and perhaps push hard for any list of "conspiracy to," the simple fact i haven't done much beyond assault with someone that agrees with my actions points to a prosecuter in an election year trying to push the buttons of a jury the DMSV and the SME wish to describe as normal.Pure said:
i fully agree if i "drop" my playmate, and for the sake of arguement, kill her, i deserve the punishment. Knowing that attorneys with agendas exist, however, determines whether the charge reads Voluntary Manslaughter versus Murder, not to mention whether said attorney gets the conviction. That i think, may speak to some of what you've said so far.
There's a huge difference, however, between me and someone that needs their partner to die to achieve sexual gratification. A big difference also exists between me and my partner who knows exactly what i am, and the abuser that has fooled, then conditioned a partner into accepting the abuse as love. Unfortunately, those that "make the rules" and those peers that stand in judgement normally don't see that.
One tangent point, and i don't direct this at Pure alone. Do you think the punishment meted out by a kink aware jury would prove more, or less severe in the case of a PYL up on charges? i use PYL here for a reason ... to include the sadist with purpose, the Dom/mes that slipped, the Master/Mistress that went a little too far, and the Top that stretched the limits of both top and bottom.
catalina_francisco
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What you seem to keep missing though Pure is these gentlemen draw the line between criminal behaviour and the way they choose to live their life. It seems you keep trying to get an admission of guilt, a definite 'yes, I am a sadist and therefore don't need consent and see no problem with breaking the law', whereas whether you want to recognise it or not, IME and those of most on the board, the brand of sadism practiced is based on consent at some point from the receiver and is widely recognised as one of the important factors of BDSM or D/s which does not promote or support the rape and beating of strangers on the street and excuse it as BDSM.
As to your assertion an abuse victim consents in their own way because through emotional, psychological, and/or physical abuse they sometimes feel it is their fault, they have deserved or set off the behaviour.....that is not consent. As a therapist in this field, if you delve deep enough, have the trust of the victim/survivor, they wil tell you they do not feel they gave consent nor welcomed the abuse....quite the opposite. Truth of the matter is they live in fear and usually a feeling of complete isolation and inability to stop the abuse, certainly not consent as we talk about it here. And yes, courts may wish to view it as consent...usually through ignorance, disinterest, an affinity with the abuser because of their own views, or simply a matter of it being easier than trying to deal with the real issue of abuse in the community.
Catalina
BTW, though he does not need me to defend him, I can vouch for F having one of the most patient and controlled temperaments I have found in life.
As to your assertion an abuse victim consents in their own way because through emotional, psychological, and/or physical abuse they sometimes feel it is their fault, they have deserved or set off the behaviour.....that is not consent. As a therapist in this field, if you delve deep enough, have the trust of the victim/survivor, they wil tell you they do not feel they gave consent nor welcomed the abuse....quite the opposite. Truth of the matter is they live in fear and usually a feeling of complete isolation and inability to stop the abuse, certainly not consent as we talk about it here. And yes, courts may wish to view it as consent...usually through ignorance, disinterest, an affinity with the abuser because of their own views, or simply a matter of it being easier than trying to deal with the real issue of abuse in the community.
Catalina
BTW, though he does not need me to defend him, I can vouch for F having one of the most patient and controlled temperaments I have found in life.
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