Dirt cookies

[cloudy]

If we were starving in america or canada or europe.. we wouldn't eat dirt now would we? we would over run the government and military and take the food. we would ask for help if we couldn't do it ourselves ... America sends them food..we aren't the problem here.

I've got a newsflash for ya: we have people starving right here in the US. There are people who's life expectancy is less than that of third world countries, and in the same area, the infant mortality rate almost doubles that of any third world country. "elderly" is considered around 50 years of age, and the leading cause of death for those "elderly" people is freezing to death. The average income is less that $4,000/year.

It's a place called Pine Ridge, home to a people that have been on this continent for thousands and thousands of years - the Lakota Sioux.

What a country.

 

[shereads]

I've got a newsflash for ya: we have people starving right here in the US. There are people who's life expectancy is less than that of third world countries, and in the same area, the infant mortality rate almost doubles that of any third world country. "elderly" is considered around 50 years of age, and the leading cause of death for those "elderly" people is freezing to death. The average income is less that $4,000/year.

It's a place called Pine Ridge, home to a people that have been on this continent for thousands and thousands of years - the Lakota Sioux.

What a country.

We tried to help them, and they shot at us!

 

[cloudy]

We tried to help them, and they shot at us!

How dare we?! It's not like they were stealing our land or anything.

oh, wait....

 

[FatDino]

The problem with haiti and so many other third world countries. And please research this if you don't believe me and think that this is only an opinion is that....there is an overwhelming feeling of despair and hopelessness. they don't think that there is anything that they can do about it ..so they don't. I and many americans(and to be fair many people of all countries and cultures) would not give up and in essence commit a sort of living suicide. I would never give up like these people ...and I doubt that you would either.

that's what differentiates people like those in haiti and other third world countries and us. I know i'm lucky but luck aside. I know that I would never give up. I would be like ghandi or jesus or MLK or the thousands of leaders who have made a differnce in third world countries.

these people have given up. they have reaped what they have sown.

First of all, they, meaning those in Haiti, have not given up. They're actually fighting to be alive. They're eating dirt, FFS. I call that trying to survive. Maybe, just maybe, what they're doing does not seem very...human to you. But when survival instincts kick in, you will, this I know for fact, eat anything that provides even just the slightest amount of calories. I will too, just like every living organism will. Giving up is not eating anything, sitting there feeling disgusted at the idea of eating dirt or insects or tree barks to survive.

Second of all, don't assume you know much, or anything, about third-world countries and how the people there would act until you have lived in such a place for at least 5 years.

And last, don't flatter yourself and compare you with Ghandi, and especially not with Jesus. It's not like we know for sure he was real.

 

[colddiesel]

For anyone who has a problem dealing with the facts about Haiti I have a suggestion.

Look up Dominican Republic on Google earth then pan westwards. You will know immediately when you get to the border.

On one side is a reasonably successful 3rd world peasant economy . On the other side utter devastation . This image tells you most you need to know about Haiti.

 

[sethp]

I've got a newsflash for ya: we have people starving right here in the US. There are people who's life expectancy is less than that of third world countries, and in the same area, the infant mortality rate almost doubles that of any third world country. "elderly" is considered around 50 years of age, and the leading cause of death for those "elderly" people is freezing to death. The average income is less that $4,000/year.

It's a place called Pine Ridge, home to a people that have been on this continent for thousands and thousands of years - the Lakota Sioux.

What a country.

Then the people of pine ridge should do something about it! They should write letters and send emails by the thousands. They should contact the news, they should get creative. Instead..i bet you ...they just sit there with a hopeless attitude and die. These people are already dead. They don't have to live that way.

 

[JagFarlane]

-Sigh- One thing I learned long ago...and its sad but true. People will form thier opinions and refuse to listen to other sides. People will refuse to listen to other sides and spat insults towards each other and claim the other is ignorant. True wisdom is being able to listen to both sides of an argument. For this, I believe most of us should not touch this subject, as it seems, either side that we put up, we will be called childish and uninformed. For shame on those whom refuse to even truly listen to either side and take point of both sides, and for shame for all the childish remarks I have seen posted on this thread. We are truly lucky to live in the country that we live in, however, understand, that being in this great country we are blessed with the freedom to have our own views, and to present these views, without fear of reprimand.

 

[cloudy]

Then the people of pine ridge should do something about it! They should write letters and send emails by the thousands. They should contact the news, they should get creative. Instead..i bet you ...they just sit there with a hopeless attitude and die. These people are already dead. They don't have to live that way.

Yeah, you're right. It has fuck-all to do with um, maybe....having their land stolen, herded into a place with no fucking jobs, no schools, no industry, and no town close enough to commute to - not to mention no public transportation. Couldn't have anything to do with the attempted genocide we endured, or stealing our children from us, forbidding them to speak their native language, belittling our spiritual beliefs, or deliberately infecting us with smallpox when we refused to just lay down and die for you.

Yeah, let's blame them.

For fuck's sake, we weren't even considered human until the 20th century, and weren't granted citizenship in our own damn country until 1924, even though our men went and fought your damn war for you (WWI). Did you realize that Native Americans make up the largest percentage of people/vs. population in the armed forces? A much larger percentage of Natives go fight your god damned wars for you than any other ethnic group, including Caucasians.

Dear god, you're a fucking idiot.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Yeah, you're right. It has fuck-all to do with um, maybe....having their land stolen, herded into a place with no fucking jobs, no schools, no industry, and no town close enough to commute to - not to mention no public transportation. Couldn't have anything to do with the attempted genocide we endured, or stealing our children from us, forbidding them to speak their native language, belittling our spiritual beliefs, or deliberately inflicting us with smallpox when we refused to just lay down and die for you.

Yeah, let's blame them.

For fuck's sake, we weren't even considered human until the 20th century, and weren't granted citizenship in our own damn country until 1924, even though our men wen't and fought your damn war for you (WWI).

Dear god, you're a fucking idiot.

Word. We bought and sold their futures a long time ago without their approval or consent and they are well and truly stuck in the middle of fucking nowhere. And the cause and results aren't that different in Haiti either, except that they are stuck on an island. If they broke down the gates, got up and stood up, how much would they really stand to gain without industry or resources?

 

[sethp]

Yeah, you're right. It has fuck-all to do with um, maybe....having their land stolen, herded into a place with no fucking jobs, no schools, no industry, and no town close enough to commute to - not to mention no public transportation. Couldn't have anything to do with the attempted genocide we endured, or stealing our children from us, forbidding them to speak their native language, belittling our spiritual beliefs, or deliberately infecting us with smallpox when we refused to just lay down and die for you.

Yeah, let's blame them.

For fuck's sake, we weren't even considered human until the 20th century, and weren't granted citizenship in our own damn country until 1924, even though our men went and fought your damn war for you (WWI). Did you realize that Native Americans make up the largest percentage of people/vs. population in the armed forces? A much larger percentage of Natives go fight your god damned wars for you than any other ethnic group, including Caucasians.

Dear god, you're a fucking idiot.

no not an idiot...you just don't want to hear the truth.

The past is the past. You and them are living like victims. When you have the victim mentality that the whole world is against you and there is nothing that you can do, then that's what your life will be like.

The world, this country and history is full of people, nations, tribes and groups of people who have risen beyond that helpless mentality. quit complaining about what happened in the past and do something about your life right now.

Everyone reading this thread..notice that instead of arguing my points.. I will get flamed and instulted. and so will anyone that doesn't say. how sad these poor people..there is nothing that they can do. the past has imprisioned them for generations and for the rest of the worlds history they will be poor and helpless.

to heck with that. I've risen up against personal issues myself to a level of pretty good prosperity..no body helped me ..I helped myself. they can do the same.

 

[sethp]

Word. We bought and sold their futures a long time ago without their approval or consent and they are well and truly stuck in the middle of fucking nowhere. And the cause and results aren't that different in Haiti either, except that they are stuck on an island. If they broke down the gates, got up and stood up, how much would they really stand to gain without industry or resources?

we give them resources. enough food to feed the entire nation of haiti and it rots on the decks.

they have enough food to feed every person in the country comfortably for the next decade if they just accept it and distribute it to the people of the country.

 

[sethp]

First of all, they, meaning those in Haiti, have not given up. They're actually fighting to be alive. They're eating dirt, FFS. I call that trying to survive. Maybe, just maybe, what they're doing does not seem very...human to you. But when survival instincts kick in, you will, this I know for fact, eat anything that provides even just the slightest amount of calories. I will too, just like every living organism will. Giving up is not eating anything, sitting there feeling disgusted at the idea of eating dirt or insects or tree barks to survive.

Second of all, don't assume you know much, or anything, about third-world countries and how the people there would act until you have lived in such a place for at least 5 years.

And last, don't flatter yourself and compare you with Ghandi, and especially not with Jesus. It's not like we know for sure he was real.

It's a mentality. sounds cheesy but never give in and never give up. Always fight for more. History is full of people that have dug themselves out of hopless situations because they kept trying and kept trying new ideas and never settled for anything less. There is enough technology, assitance from nations and organizations, labor, and natural reasources for the people of haiti to rise above thier poverty. Thats just truth.

 

[cloudy]

no not an idiot...you just don't want to hear the truth.

you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you upside the head.

 

[English Lady]

My heart breaks for any person who has to scrape whatever they can together to live. It's times like this I wish I really knew all the answers to all the problems in the world.

 

[sethp]

you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you upside the head.

well I won't insult you back cause that doesn't help anything.

What about my assertion that what happened in the past can be overcome?

 

[Guest]

It's a mentality. sounds cheesy but never give in and never give up. Always fight for more. History is full of people that have dug themselves out of hopless situations because they kept trying and kept trying new ideas and never settled for anything less. There is enough technology, assitance from nations and organizations, labor, and natural reasources for the people of haiti to rise above thier poverty. Thats just truth.

History is also full of people who have succumbed to Despair, and are purely in survival mode.

Even in the States - how are things in Louisiana these days?

Far be it from me to judge - even in my darkest nights, I have always had food, shelter, and support from ones who loved me, even if I chose not to accept it.

In my opinion Seth, the tone of your posts are quite judgemental. "I've risen above, why can't they? It's their fault."

You're right, it is a mentality.

But it's so very much more complicated than that and I have no answers, only sorrow. Even in my own city, first-world status Canada, there are no less than 1,800 lost souls, and those are the ones who have come forward to be counted. Four times a day I drive past them, gathered in my beautiful city's deepest alley of shame. I could drive another way, but I am compelled.

There are resources available to them, but there is never enough. There are incredible challenges.

I cannot judge them.

All I can do is be witness, and be grateful for what I have.

 

[sethp]

History is also full of people who have succumbed to Despair, and are purely in survival mode.

Even in the States - how are things in Louisiana these days?

Far be it from me to judge - even in my darkest nights, I have always had food, shelter, and support from ones who loved me, even if I chose not to accept it.

In my opinion Seth, the tone of your posts are quite judgemental. "I've risen above, why can't they? It's their fault."

You're right, it is a mentality.

But it's so very much more complicated than that and I have no answers, only sorrow. Even in my own city, first-world status Canada, there are no less than 1,800 lost souls, and those are the ones who have come forward to be counted. Four times a day I drive past them, gathered in my beautiful city's deepest alley of shame. I could drive another way, but I am compelled.

There are resources available to them, but there is never enough. There are incredible challenges.

I cannot judge them.

All I can do is be witness, and be grateful for what I have.

I guess my posts on this thread do seem a little bit judgemental but.. we're not just talking about homeless people...many of whom are mentally ill. If we treat the mental illness their situation improves and they usually don't go back to being homeless...they "rise above"

But when you are talking about a whole country of nation that's different. Everyone in that country is not mentally ill or addicted to drugs or alchohol. They can change things. I know in my heart that if I was there ..with my drive my attitude. I would try to do something. They would have to kill me to stop me.

 

[cloudy]

I know in my heart that if I was there ..with my drive my attitude. I would try to do something. They would have to kill me to stop me.

sure you could, because you're so much better, work so much harder, than those brown people over there.

If I honestly felt that you had ever been in a position like those in Haiti, or those that live on Pine Ridge - if I could believe you'd ever done without just basic necessities for more than a day at a time - I might be able to take your posts in this thread seriously.

As it is? Not a chance.

 

[sethp]

sure you could, because you're so much better, work so much harder, than those brown people over there.

If I honestly felt that you had ever been in a position like those in Haiti, or those that live on Pine Ridge - if I could believe you'd ever done without just basic necessities for more than a day at a time - I might be able to take your posts in this thread seriously.

As it is? Not a chance.

well I have actually been homeless for quite a few months at a time..with no place to live and onlyl the clothes on my back..no money, no job, no car no nothing in a city where i didnt' know anyone.

I lived in a cockroach infested halfway house for a while and slowly pulled my self up until now..I own a brand new 2 story house a truck and a car have a great job and have college classes and training seminars under my belt. and life is good (lot's of sex too!)

Are you saying that just because life gives you a rough hand that you should give up? That sounds like what you are saying.

 

[Guest]

I guess my posts on this thread do seem a little bit judgemental but.. we're not just talking about homeless people...many of whom are mentally ill. If we treat the mental illness their situation improves and they usually don't go back to being homeless...they "rise above"

But when you are talking about a whole country of nation that's different. Everyone in that country is not mentally ill or addicted to drugs or alchohol. They can change things. I know in my heart that if I was there ..with my drive my attitude. I would try to do something. They would have to kill me to stop me.

Everyone on the street is not mentally ill or addicted, belive it or not. Treatment of mental illness does not always work, or takes a very very long time.

Do you think that in the whole of Haiti there is not one person who thinks as you do? Who has hope? Drive, determination?

Simplification and generalization. Unless you have walked among them, done what you can to solve their problems with the resources they have available to them, (that is after you've done so in your own country, your own life) - it is unrealisticand even ignorant to suggest what others can/would/should do.

 

[sethp]

If you truly are a native american and not pretending then you should know about native american warrior attitudes and bravery and in fighting against all odds. sure the europeans destoyed their way of living and they were beaten mind body and spirit but...then what? do you just give up now? no more fight left? are you all just ready to lay down and die?

 

[sethp]

Everyone on the street is not mentally ill or addicted, belive it or not. Treatment of mental illness does not always work, or takes a very very long time.

Do you think that in the whole of Haiti there is not one person who thinks as you do? Who has hope? Drive, determination?

Simplification and generalization. Unless you have walked among them, done what you can to solve their problems with the resources they have available to them, (that is after you've done so in your own country, your own life) - it is unrealisticand even ignorant to suggest what others can/would/should do.

I know what you are saying and yes I can't get into their minds and i'm not there I don't know exactly what I would do. but nobody there does anything. they are comfortable living in squalar and waiting to die. that's what they are doing..just waiting to die.

 

[cloudy]

If you truly are a native american and not pretending then you should know about native american warrior attitudes and bravery and in fighting against all odds. sure the europeans destoyed their way of living and they were beaten mind body and spirit but...then what? do you just give up now? no more fight left? are you all just ready to lay down and die?

oh, fuck off. Now you wanna tell me "how to be Indian"? I'm sure you'd be a much better NDN than me.

Last time I checked, you had to be Native to live on a damn reservation. I'm so sorry that I don't conform to your dearly held, but tired as fuck, stereotypes. Asshole.



You watch too many John Wayne movies. Newsflash: we're people, just like everyone else.

 

[sethp]

oh, fuck off. Now you wanna tell me "how to be Indian"? I'm sure you'd be a much better NDN than me.

Asshole.

Last time I checked, you had to be Native to live on a damn reservation.

You watch too many John Wayne movies. Newsflash: we're people, just like everyone else.

I don't want to tell you how to be native american.. I can't do that. and I don't believe that John Wayne is the answer.

I "do" want to tell you how to be a functioning human though. You don't know how to do that.

You need goals, you need hope, you need dreams, you need purpose, you need self discipline, you need to work hard, you need to have fun and laugh, You need to nurture you mind, body and spirit, You need to help others in your community, You need to copy other people in history who have what you want and who have overcome what stands in your way, you need to stop acting like a victim,

What you are is not what has happend to you in the past. Get that thru your head.

If you look hard enough all of the resources are there for you to move on with your life and they are available to you for free or next to free. Libraries, the internet, friends, family, government resources, nature, colleges and schools, non profit organisations and churches as well as native american groups.

you call me an idiot and swear at me. and I say do something with your life. stop being a victim.

 

[cloudy]

I "do" want to tell you how to be a functioning human though. You don't know how to do that.

I don't, huh?

Sweetheart, I'm probably much better educated than you are (two bachelor's, almost finished with my master's). I've raised three kids, two of which are college-educated, as well (my youngest is still in grade school, but he'll get there, too).

I've worked most of my life, at professional, well-paid jobs, we just bought a very nice home with a pool and some land, and my husband makes enough that I can sit on my ass if I want to.

How's those stereotypes holding up for ya?

You have zero to teach me.