DnD: Disciples of the Forgotten

[cats]

I really want to use my epic players hand book. The most I've done with it is make characters that have never been used and one cruel dm made us fight a gloom one time. Some how the party of three level 15 characters beat it despite being a cr 24 monster.

If you prefer to be low level may I recommend the paragon creature template.

Any how to clarify I am not happy with ECL, and so I remove levels from ones "monster class." Basicly ignore a trolls starting Hit dice and everything that is based on level. Apply the level adjustment and build the character using base stats and extordinary and supernatural abilities. I sadly can't do this with were-wolves.

 

[The GrandMage]

What you just said confuses me.

And seems like a lot of work.
A lot of boring work.

I'd prefer just to take "levels" in the template. It's easier for me. Especially since I don't have to toss out fat chunks of decent BA and saves.

I mean, sure you get all the extra special bonuses, but you're severely tipping the balance scale way, waaaaaay out of balance.

 

[TearsoftheWorld]

I definitely wouldn't mind signing up, but I'm really, really, really, new to DnD. I played in a few games, but that's about it.

 

[thewhiteone]

Told ya the 1-on-1 talk was scaring people away.

The saint template gives me the Wis mod to AC anyway, so it'd be x2. Taking monk would kill the incarnate (good) levels, as I'd have to be lawful for monk, but NG for incarnate (good). Wisdom is not the main stat for incarnate, its Constitution.

Or instead of making it, I could make it Charisma mod for the cleric levels. Although it is as high as my Wis at the moment, I'm not going to be actively improving my Cha, I will be actively improving my Wis.

Or Wis to AC for cleric, and Wis to SR for saint.

Or just make it Wis x2, and drop the unarmored AC bonus increases.

I don't like the idea of eliminating the monster levels. It's part of being the creature. If it's naturally tougher than a human without any training, it should be. Think about it: a newly hatched red dragon wyrming with levels of wizard crawls out of its egg clutching its spellbook, with spell already written and memorized...
You don't take class levels before you are an adult. Monster levels signify this adulthood.

 

[cats]

Good news Ravenloft just asked how he can get in on this.

Tears I always enjoy roleplaying with you. So you are more then welcome to join if it gets to be to much you can always drop. The trouble would be making a level 20 character, if you are very new I suggest you stay away from spell casters.


All right we will use normal ECL rules. I am not as familar with it but that shouldn't matter.

 

[thewhiteone]

Will you allow the purchasing/training for additional feats and skill points? Probably charge what it would cost to put it in a magic item, just add training time?

And as far as equipment, do we go with the DM listed value or do you have your own amount for us?

Are we actually rolling dice?

 

[cats]

Just to share this is the third computer I've used to reply to this thread today.

Wizards.com has a free dice rolling engine if need be. I am using the honor system.

Ren lacks books and hasn't played in a while I offered to make a character for him, so we will see how that goes.


Training for feats and skills does not sound like a good idea. How ever every one who is between levels 15 and 20 may add a +4 bonus to knowledge checks for identifing monsters of all kinds, survival checks, and swim checks. (No one ever takes swim)

The guild of the three layers has resources to make items of all sorts. So custume gear is fine. How ever they don't offer a discount unless you make your own items. If you have an item crafting feat fallow the rules as normal and assume you had all the time in the world to craft it.

 

[The GrandMage]

Like I said, I'm not used to building preleveled characters (I can deal with monster levels, don't worry) but there is one thing I don't know...

Where do I find out how much money he'll be starting with?
I need to determine exactly how evil I'm going to be.

 

[cats]

Good news if I make Ren a character he's in.

Gm, page 135 in the DMG. 20th level is 760k that is alot of gold.

 

[The GrandMage]

Mmmmmmm.

I sense an evil plan. So, which level we starting this thing at?
Or should I just build at 15, submit, and level if we decide to up it?

So, any limit to the amount of playing I can do with this, Or should I choose an off-race, shove fifteen templates on it, and laugh?

For instance, I am currently considering applying the hall-troll template and lycanthropy (were-tiger) to a tiefling fighter, investing all that gold into armor, and throwing it into combat and laughing.

 

[cats]

I suggest level 20. I see no reason to beat around the bush. Besides at that level every one is at least considered for the new had of Ironthal Academy.

The best templates are saint which dictates your behavior but is incredibly worth while at two levels and Paragon creature which costs eleven levels but is still worth it. Saint is in the book of exalted deeds and Paragon creatures are in the epic players hand book.

Any one using the Exalted Deeds book be warned the Retributive Amulet was nerfed not to long ago.

 

[The GrandMage]

Okay, so, once again I find myself coming to the question of level adjustment versus HD.

Now, the one time I played D&D using a template, the DM said that the HD affect the levels, so If I went by that ruling here I'd knock out the HD that the template gives as levels, and throw the rest into class. However, I could also work it out so the ECL (which afefcts experience and starting gold) is what I'm working up to 20.

I've played D&D before, but I'm really not that much into the rules, since I usually play in the shallow end.

Now, the way I see it, using ECL is designed to balance out the power you get from the templates, so I feel more inclined to lean that way, but I wanted to get someone with more knowledge's opinion on it.

 

[cats]

We ruled against replacing HD, or rather I was over ruled so forget all that.

ECL = Monster HD+ class levels+ Level adjustment.

Saint has a level adjustment of 2 but requires 3 exhalted feats and a code of conduct. (All of this is with the class in the book of exalted deeds.)

Pargon Creature has a level adjustment of 11. Neither template has monster HD.

Use ECL for starting gold. It is also used for experince to next level.

 

[The GrandMage]

So I'm getting the ECL to 20, correct?

 

[cats]

Yes.

For the record Ren will be playing a dwarf fighter.

Currently in the party is a cleric, White, and a fighter, ren.

 

[The GrandMage]

So, really, are we just going with the prices in the DM's guide for magic items?
Just the Base Price listed, or is something else added?

If so, I take it Epic Magic Items are allowed?

 

[cats]

1 epic item to a player, the logic being the feat epic item creation is rare because most members of the three layers guild are lower level then the pcs only a very select few can craft epic items. I also wish to remind you no more then half ones gold can be a single item.

 

[The GrandMage]

Whoa, we start out with a lot of cash.

Anyway, yeah, I'm making a Fighter, too.

 

[The GrandMage]

To be specific, a Half-Troll Tiefling Lycanthrope (Were-Tiger).

Yeah, sure, he's only a level-six fighter, but he's still the most massively powered characetr I've ever built.

I mean, in Hybrid form (which is what he spend most of his time in) he's got a light load carring capacity that's over TWO TONS.

Sure, he's not the best Fighter around, but dang, he's your man for Strength checks.

 

[cats]

You have 7 feats oddly the name number every one else does. If can track down the complete warrior I suggest you look at anvil of thunder and hammers edge feats.

I trust your making it a true lycanthrope so you don't have to mess with the shape change skill.

 

[The GrandMage]

First off: Yes, yes I am a True Lycanthrope. Being afflicted is really pointless. Especially since he's going to spend almost all his time in his hybrid form (he doesn't like his other forms).

Also: Seven Feats? Where are you getting that number from?

 

[cats]

I miss counted, I forgot the bonus feats from the were tiger and the feats from hit dice.

 

[cats]

Does any one object to me rolling treasure on the tables in the Magic item Compendium. (The book has every magic item from a source book other then those in the DMG... and it is missing the bow of the solars oddly.)

Along those lines do you prefer to discover how the item works threw trial, error, and the identify spell or do you prefer we skip that?

 

[The GrandMage]

I've had some issues with this in the past: Can we agree on exactly what feats a weretiger naturally starts with?

I'm okay with that. Personally, I like Identify. Mostly because trial and error can... well, it can sometimes not tell you anything if you'r enot paying a whole lot of attention.

 

[thewhiteone]

I would say it would vary from item to item. Some tell you what they do, some you get a general idea just by looking at them, others you'd need to figure out the hard way.

For the weretiger, I think you would get all listed feats except Combat Reflexes or Improved Initiative, one of those was probably the feat taken at first level.