Do you believe in God?

[WriterDom]

To be specific Jehovah Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity. There might be other denominations that don't, but I can't think of them off hand.

They are the ones who believe only 144,000 people will go to heaven. I guess if god likes you and you don't make the 144,000 cut you go to an earlhly heaven.

I dated a girl who was in that church but got out. She said it was a cult.

 

[graceanne]

Really, that's it? I thought there was more, but admittedly I have trouble keeping the denominations straight.

I wouldn't guarantee it, there might be a smaller denomination that I don't know of. But of the Christ following religions, that I can think of, are Catholicism, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons. (If anyone can think of one I'm forgetting, pipe in.) Under the Protestant category are several other smaller catergories (baptist, nazarene, etc.). Catholics, Protestants, and Mormons all believe in the Trinity.

 

[graceanne]

They are the ones who believe only 144,000 people will go to heaven. I guess if god likes you and you don't make the 144,000 cut you go to an earlhly heaven.

I dated a girl who was in that church but got out. She said it was a cult.

It is. It's registered as a cult. I have five cousins, three cousin in laws, and a second cousin who are all jehovah witnesses. I could go on why it's considered a cult, but the point of this thread is not to bash other religions.

that said, they are still a religion that follows the teaching of Christ. I, and they, believe they are Christians.

 

[JMohegan]

I agree with a goodly bit of what you're saying. Where I tend to disagree with agnostics is that typically agnostics make a point of saying that the god of the Christian bible could exist, but if you ask them if Zeus might be up there tossing the lightning bolts, they'll scoff at the notion because that's an ancient and dead faith. But both are equally probable.

Christianity, Scientology, and ancient Greek mythology all seem equally unlikely to me.

Which is to say, none of them seem plausible, and all of them were surely invented by self-serving men, in order to control the masses and/or enrich the inventors and leaders succeeding thereto.

To be frank though, I've never met an agnostic that differentiated between Zeus, Yahweh, etc in their lack of proof.

Neither have I.

 

[intothewoods]

Ok, a little history lesson.

Once upon a time there was a man named Abram. Abram found favor in the eyes of the Lord and He renamed him Abraham and promised he'd be the father of nations. But Abraham and his wife (was Sarai, changed to Sarah) got impatient as she continued not to have children and not to have children. So Sarah told Abraham to take her handmaiden (read: slave), Hagar, and get her pregnant. Hagar had a little boy, Ishmael. Shortly after Sarah had Issac. Sarah abused Hagar and Ishmael and eventually had her and Ishmael banished. God told Hagar that her son, also, would be the father of nations. The Arabs are descendants of Hagar, and therefore Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Isaac, and also Abraham. Abraham believed in the God I believe in.

Then, a long time later, Jesus came. He was born, he taught, he was persecuted, he was killed, and he rose again. Those of us who follow Jesus, who was the son of the God of Abraham, are Christians. The main difference? You don't have to believe in the God of Abraham to be a Jew or an Arab, it's a culture AND a religion. But all three religions can be traced through Abraham.

I more or less agree (but I wouldn't call that history), though I've never heard the name change thing. And Arab is an ethnicity but the religion is Islam, the followers are Muslims.

 

[graceanne]

I more or less agree (but I wouldn't call that history), though I've never heard the name change thing. And Arab is an ethnicity but the religion is Islam, the followers are Muslims.

I know. I was trying to simplify.

And, actually, with the exception of Jesus raising, I believe that most historians (including several athiest historians) have proven what I just said is true. What's up for debate is the bits involving God. It could be argued, by those who don't believe, that Abraham was either crazy or a liar. But he did have a son named issac and a son named hagar, and those children are the ascendants of the Hebrew and Arab people. And Jesus did live and was crucified, also a historical fact. Whether he was the son of God, and raised from the dead, is up to beliefs and faiths.

 

[ZRT]

Which is to say, none of them seem plausible, and all of them were surely invented by self-serving men, in order to control the masses and/or enrich the inventors and leaders succeeding thereto.

That's why Christian history interests me. Seeing how the scripture shifts over time (pre-Constantine) as the Church what Paul made had its falling out with the Jews and snuggled up to the Romans is pretty interesting.

 

[JMohegan]

To be specific Jehovah Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity. There might be other denominations that don't, but I can't think of them off hand.

What do they believe instead? What does the "christ" part of Christian mean, to them?

 

[JMohegan]

I wouldn't guarantee it, there might be a smaller denomination that I don't know of. But of the Christ following religions, that I can think of, are Catholicism, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons. (If anyone can think of one I'm forgetting, pipe in.) Under the Protestant category are several other smaller catergories (baptist, nazarene, etc.). Catholics, Protestants, and Mormons all believe in the Trinity.

Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox.

 

[graceanne]

What do they believe instead? What does the "christ" part of Christian mean, to them?

They believe in the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, they just believe they are separate entities, not parts of a whole. They believe that by worshiping Jesus we are breaking the commandment regarding worship of other gods. We believe that Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Ghost are parts of one, rather like water (it can be air, solid, and liquid but it's still water). It's complicated.

 

[graceanne]

Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox.

Shoot. I forgot them. My apologies.

 

[WriterDom]

Ok, a little history lesson.

Once upon a time there was a man named Abram. Abram found favor in the eyes of the Lord and He renamed him Abraham and promised he'd be the father of nations. But Abraham and his wife (was Sarai, changed to Sarah) got impatient as she continued not to have children and not to have children. So Sarah told Abraham to take her handmaiden (read: slave), Hagar, and get her pregnant. Hagar had a little boy, Ishmael. Shortly after Sarah had Issac. Sarah abused Hagar and Ishmael and eventually had her and Ishmael banished. God told Hagar that her son, also, would be the father of nations. The Arabs are descendants of Hagar, and therefore Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Isaac, and also Abraham. Abraham believed in the God I believe in.

Then, a long time later, Jesus came. He was born, he taught, he was persecuted, he was killed, and he rose again. Those of us who follow Jesus, who was the son of the God of Abraham, are Christians. The main difference? You don't have to believe in the God of Abraham to be a Jew or an Arab, it's a culture AND a religion. But all three religions can be traced through Abraham.

But still many of the "stars" for lack of a better word of the bible are talked about in the Qur’an. Up to John the Baptist and Jesus. Christians and Jews aren't infidels but "people of the book."

 

[Netzach]

I actually find the thought of the circus ride ending at some forseeable point a good deal. In a lot of ways, I prefer the thought of worms and nothing to other posited options. But I do think there's some uniting thing that spits all the things that are out of said void.

So inasmuch as one can be spiritual but fairly unconcerned about God, I guess that's where it's at.

 

[Arkhilokhus]

I wouldn't guarantee it, there might be a smaller denomination that I don't know of. But of the Christ following religions, that I can think of, are Catholicism, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons. (If anyone can think of one I'm forgetting, pipe in.) Under the Protestant category are several other smaller catergories (baptist, nazarene, etc.). Catholics, Protestants, and Mormons all believe in the Trinity.

Eastern/Oriental Orthodox.

 

[graceanne]

But still many of the "stars" for lack of a better word of the bible are talked about in the Qur’an. Up to John the Baptist and Jesus. Christians and Jews aren't infidels but "people of the book."

I don't know about the 'people of the book' part. I don't claim to know much about muslims. But, yes, all of the above mentioned people are in Qur'an. Like I said, this is established history.

 

[intothewoods]

What do they believe instead? What does the "christ" part of Christian mean, to them?

I will need to go look this up, but I thought there were denominations - protestant denominations - who believe that there is no Trinity there is just Christ, who is God.

I know. I was trying to simplify.

And, actually, with the exception of Jesus raising, I believe that most historians (including several athiest historians) have proven what I just said is true. What's up for debate is the bits involving God. It could be argued, by those who don't believe, that Abraham was either crazy or a liar. But he did have a son named issac and a son named hagar, and those children are the ascendants of the Hebrew and Arab people. And Jesus did live and was crucified, also a historical fact. Whether he was the son of God, and raised from the dead, is up to beliefs and faiths.

Oh yes, agreed.

 

[graceanne]

Eastern/Oriental Orthodox.

Can we qualify all the ones I forgot just under 'orthodox' and say theirs mini categories under that? Rather like Baptist and Nazarene under Protestant?

 

[Netzach]

Coyote also.

He had/has style.

Gotta love a God with a sense of humor.

If the popular version of this question is right, I envision God as a giant cosmic 15 year old watching us like a faces of death installment. "Dude, dude TOTALLY blew up!"

 

[graceanne]

I will need to go look this up, but I thought there were denominations - protestant denominations - who believe that there is no Trinity there is just Christ, who is God.



Oh yes, agreed.

LOL I was just rereading what I wrote, and Abraham didn't have a son named hagar. He and hagar had a son named Ishmael. Silly me. lol

 

[intothewoods]

But still many of the "stars" for lack of a better word of the bible are talked about in the Qur’an. Up to John the Baptist and Jesus. Christians and Jews aren't infidels but "people of the book."

Muslims treat the Torah, New Testament and the writings of Mohammed alike as sacred texts.

 

[WriterDom]

Mormons are an old lot. You ever seen a Mormon family with less than 5 kids? I guess you could call them modern day Muslims. They started over with a new book.

 

[intothewoods]

LOL I was just rereading what I wrote, and Abraham didn't have a son named hagar. He and hagar had a son named Ishmael. Silly me. lol

That's what I read too. I've had a bitch of a day and I'm on glass two of the red. *hiccup*


Wha-? I'm Jewish. We drink!

 

[Keroin]

I used to work with this woman who was a full on Holy Roller. I don’t know the name brand of the religion she practiced but it’s the one where they speak in tongues and dance around a lot. Anyway, in her never ending quest for converts, she would always invite all her co-workers to attend the Easter/Xmas musicals at her church. Well, I’m always up for free entertainment, so I said yes to the Easter invitation.

Being raised by non-believers, I had only a rudimentary knowledge of Christian lore – eg. Christ turns into a rabbit once every spring and delivers chocolate eggs to children the world over.

I watched the performance, which was quite professional, and enjoyed the story, at least what I could make of it. When it was all said and done, my co-worker asked me what I’d thought of it all and I told her how impressed I was by the acting, singing, sets, etc. I also told her that my very favorite character was the guy in the dark blue robe; I loved him!

“That was Satan,” she said, with a just-bit-into-a-lemon expression on her face.

In retrospect, I should have known.

 

[Homburg]

My experience has differed, but that's probably a regional thing. There aren't many militant atheists here in the heart of the bible belt.

Well, Virginia is Bible Belt, and there are plenty enough around here. That said, there is a stupendously huge amount of military in the area, so the whole bloody place is packed full of transplants.

--

NB: "Passive atheism" will probably be called "agnosticism" by somebody, so let me clarify - the difference between the two is where the whole lack of evidence/faith shtick goes. When presented with a lack of evidence in God, atheists take that as proof God doesn't exist while agnostics take that to mean that God might or might not. I do also find that "passive atheists" generally have more reasons than just a lack of evidence for not believing in God.

Logic is on the side of the agnostic. Agnostics understand that you can't prove a negative, something the active atheists never seem to comprehend.

And the other, non-lack-of-evidence reasons most atheists have seem to follow along the lines of "religious upbringing", "dad was a preacher", "from a religion-heavy small town", etc. I only had one of those. I think I was the asshole atheist for so many years because to first part of that identifier came so naturally to me.

 

[intothewoods]

Mormons are an old lot. You ever seen a Mormon family with less than 5 kids? I guess you could call them modern day Muslims. They started over with a new book.

You have to go watch the South Park episode on the history of Mormonism. I mean, now that we're agreeing and all.