Do you own a firearm?

[Homburg]

Friend, you seem to have ignored the "part of a pattern" portion of the critical sentence in my post. To put it another way, it's not money that suffers the biblical blast but the love of money.

Eh, I was using discursive extension, not trying to ignore it. Even taking it as a whole, it is a statement that cannot be gracefully proven or disproven. If I love the second amendment this affects anyone else how? Literally, I sit here and just loooove all over that amendment. Wank with my copy of the Bill of Rights. How does this affect anyone? I need to express that love to someone else for anyone to even know of it. Expression becomes the act at that point.

I can love the second amendment and not own a gun. I love the fifth, but have never had to use it. Love, on its' own, is not really material to the problem of violence in this country. Action is more the issue. And it is usually action taken by people that don't give a toss about the 2nd, or any other bit of legal discourse, that have actual effect on rate of violence.

 

[midwestyankee]

Eh, I was using discursive extension, not trying to ignore it. Even taking it as a whole, it is a statement that cannot be gracefully proven or disproven. If I love the second amendment this affects anyone else how? Literally, I sit here and just loooove all over that amendment. Wank with my copy of the Bill of Rights. How does this affect anyone? I need to express that love to someone else for anyone to even know of it. Expression becomes the act at that point.

I can love the second amendment and not own a gun. I love the fifth, but have never had to use it. Love, on its' own, is not really material to the problem of violence in this country. Action is more the issue. And it is usually action taken by people that don't give a toss about the 2nd, or any other bit of legal discourse, that have actual effect on rate of violence.

You clearly need a drink. In my view, love of any sort does not exist without action, so loving the second amendment only happens when people act on its behalf. Which pattern contributes to the popularity and population of, guns. This pattern contributes to (but does not exclusively cause, as I said above) harm to many fellow citizens.


That is all.

 

[WriterDom]

But they just get real pissy when someone suggests that their love of the second amendment is part of a pattern that is contributing to the untimely deaths of a lot of fellow citizens.

You mean gang bangers in the intercity? Yeah we outlaw guns to stop that. Then what? Outlaw crowbars? Big rocks? gallon cans of gasoline. Knifes? swords? Weed hackers? Propane tanks? 1987 yogos driven into a crowd? Pool cues? Bowling balls? outlaw the fist?

 

[midwestyankee]

You mean gang bangers in the intercity? Yeah we outlaw guns to stop that. Then what? Outlaw crowbars? Big rocks? gallon cans of gasoline. Knifes? swords? Weed hackers? Propane tanks? 1987 yogos driven into a crowd? Pool cues? Bowling balls? outlaw the fist?

I'd stop at outlawing rolling pins. I like biscuits.

 

[WriterDom]

A yankee biscuit? Would make a good horror movie.

 

[midwestyankee]

A yankee biscuit? Would make a good horror movie.

My friend, you are making assumptions that do you a disservice.

 

[LilyBart]

I'd stop at outlawing rolling pins. I like biscuits.

My friend, you are making assumptions that do you a disservice.

Alright you guys....arguing about guns is one thing.
Arguing about biscuits might lead to war.

Maybe a little time-out to cool off is in order?

~LB

Oh yeah...my biscuits rock!

 

[midwestyankee]

Alright you guys....arguing about guns is one thing.
Arguing about biscuits might lead to war.

Maybe a little time-out to cool off is in order?

~LB

Oh yeah...my biscuits rock!

I never accept unsubstantiated claims. I need proof.

 

[LilyBart]

I never accept unsubstantiated claims. I need proof.

Its probably inappropriate to discuss biscuit making techniques on the firearms thread.....

You may just have to trust me on this....

~LB

 

[midwestyankee]

Its probably inappropriate to discuss biscuit making techniques on the firearms thread.....

You may just have to trust me on this....

~LB

They don't have FedEx in your part of the country?

 

[Essene]

A yankee biscuit? Would make a good horror movie.

Hey! I think we have good biscuits. Seriously. *hands on hips*

As for the topic of the thread, I don't own a firearm, but I do support and appreciate my right to own one should I decide to.

I do however think that there needs to be a bit of moderation regarding how and who is allowed to purchase one.

 

[bailadora]

Yes, we do have a gun - a revolver that will shoot either 45's or 357's. It's a bit much for me personally and I'm looking to find something a bit smaller (I have very small hands).

Although I am no gun enthusiast, I do believe in the right to bear arms for self protection. When I was young (about 14), someone tried to burgle the house while my parents were at work. I put my younger sister in the closet, handed her the phone and told her to call 911, while I took my mother's pistol from the hiding place and confronted the robber just as he was about to lift the window sash. Thankfully, he decided he no longer wanted access to the house and took off running. Which is what I hoped he would do. But had he persisted, I WOULD have shot him. He stood nearly a foot taller than I did and outweighed me by more than 100 lbs. There was no way I could have fought him off physically. And although we lived in the 'burbs- it still took the police nearly 20 minutes to arrive after we made the emergency call.

 

[Homburg]

You clearly need a drink. In my view, love of any sort does not exist without action, so loving the second amendment only happens when people act on its behalf. Which pattern contributes to the popularity and population of, guns. This pattern contributes to (but does not exclusively cause, as I said above) harm to many fellow citizens.


That is all.

Love does not exist without action? Malory would take issue with that, with all of his example fo chaste love from afar.

Still, the core problem I have with the statement exists. Virtually anything can be argued to contribute to that problem, given how broadly it is stated. Mechanical engineering contributes to harm and untimely death of Americans. Concrete contributes. The church contributes. I honestly cannot think og a single thing that does not in some way contribute, or cannot at least be argued to contribute to the untimely death of Americans.

And, doctors contribute far more to untimely deaths than guns do. So do pools. Cars. All sorts of shit contributes much more directly than love of the second amendment. Guns just happen to be mediapathic. Or mediagenic, depending on how cynical you are.

 

[midwestyankee]

Love does not exist without action? Malory would take issue with that, with all of his example fo chaste love from afar.

Still, the core problem I have with the statement exists. Virtually anything can be argued to contribute to that problem, given how broadly it is stated. Mechanical engineering contributes to harm and untimely death of Americans. Concrete contributes. The church contributes. I honestly cannot think og a single thing that does not in some way contribute, or cannot at least be argued to contribute to the untimely death of Americans.

And, doctors contribute far more to untimely deaths than guns do. So do pools. Cars. All sorts of shit contributes much more directly than love of the second amendment. Guns just happen to be mediapathic. Or mediagenic, depending on how cynical you are.

And we both know that characteristics of unrelated objects have nothing to do with the inherent qualities of any object. That pools or cars also cause harm in no way alters the nature of guns. I'm disappointed that you would take this all too easy path.

 

[Homburg]

And we both know that characteristics of unrelated objects have nothing to do with the inherent qualities of any object. That pools or cars also cause harm in no way alters the nature of guns. I'm disappointed that you would take this all too easy path.

Dude, this from a guy whose primary argument was so broad as to allow for these objects?

 

[faeriefire]

Myself, no. Dad still has his rifles, shotguns, and two handguns. Plus a ton of traps. Of everyone in my fam I believe mum has shot the guns most. Usually at raccoons trying to kill chickens or dogs trying to attack the lambs. We finally wised up and got a few llamas to guard them. Waaaay better than buckshot.

We also had a pool, and vehicles, and internet for that matter. I don't believe any object is inherently evil nor do I believe prohibiting individuals from carrying firearms would accomplish anything except create a lot more red tape. Some people will be stupid whether it's legal or not...and unfortunately it's just not possible to outlaw stupidity...

 

[unfoundiamond]

I am buying one.

I don't own a gun, but plan to buy one,

I like target practice as well,

The first time I shot a gun was when I was 16 and my then girlfriend/finances father and I where having what he wished was male bonding time, LOL

I did her proud tho, as I was strangely on point, shooting the same spot on I had just shot, or making little squares and triangles with my bullet holes, I felt like I had been a hitman in my past life...

He collected civil war relics... guns mostly, but other guns too, antique and modern...

I shot .22 and .38 revolvers, a 9mm handgun and .44...

I wanted my own collection since then, and a place in the country I could shoot my guns when I wanted, just like Mr Johnson.

(Its probly the most common last mane in the world, or id not mention it. And they'd die if they knew I mentioned his name... but hell that's the point, fucking right wing bastards didn't like me licking their daughter...)

 

[YourCaptor]

I don't own a gun, but plan to buy one,

I like target practice as well,

The first time I shot a gun was when I was 16 and my then girlfriend/finances father and I where having what he wished was male bonding time, LOL

I did her proud tho, as I was strangely on point, shooting the same spot on I had just shot, or making little squares and triangles with my bullet holes, I felt like I had been a hitman in my past life...

He collected civil war relics... guns mostly, but other guns too, antique and modern...

I shot .22 and .38 revolvers, a 9mm handgun and .44...

I wanted my own collection since then, and a place in the country I could shoot my guns when I wanted, just like Mr Johnson.

(Its probly the most common last mane in the world, or id not mention it. And they'd die if they knew I mentioned his name... but hell that's the point, fucking right wing bastards didn't like me licking their daughter...)

Just remember this is a machine with a purpose. It may be fun to play with, kind of like it would be fun to play around with a wreaking ball, but you can never get past what it was designed to do, and so you better be anal about safety.

Thats my cautionary label.

 

[Homburg]

Just remember this is a machine with a purpose. It may be fun to play with, kind of like it would be fun to play around with a wreaking ball, but you can never get past what it was designed to do, and so you better be anal about safety.

Thats my cautionary label.

Quoted For Truth

 

[LadyAria]

Yes, I do. I own two.

 

[midwestyankee]

Dude, this from a guy whose primary argument was so broad as to allow for these objects?

Wine will sometimes broaden one's arguments surreptitiously. I should have said that it's the widespread love of guns and the indiscriminate support of the second amendment that is engendered by the love of guns that contributes to (but does not solely cause) the untimely deaths of many fellow citizens.

In any event, I do not seek to persuade anyone on the subject. I seek only to be understood to have well-formed views of my own.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Wine will sometimes broaden one's arguments surreptitiously. I should have said that it's the widespread love of guns and the indiscriminate support of the second amendment that is engendered by the love of guns that contributes to (but does not solely cause) the untimely deaths of many fellow citizens.

In any event, I do not seek to persuade anyone on the subject. I seek only to be understood to have well-formed views of my own.

If the calendar was up to date id nominate this.

Haha.. **feels the same way...**

I don't intend to convince everyone, just to asses and assert my own opinion. Be more self aware and aware of my surroundings.

I don't look to make you approve or agree.

It is what it is.

 

[Homburg]

Wine will sometimes broaden one's arguments surreptitiously. I should have said that it's the widespread love of guns and the indiscriminate support of the second amendment that is engendered by the love of guns that contributes to (but does not solely cause) the untimely deaths of many fellow citizens.

In any event, I do not seek to persuade anyone on the subject. I seek only to be understood to have well-formed views of my own.

I figured there might be wine involved. Your language was more poetic than discursive.

Stating it a bit more finely as you have, I agree. We do have a gun culture here in the States. Canada has similar gun ownership numbers in various provinces, and far less gun deaths. It is a cultural thing. The problem becomes that the normal reaction is to attempt to limit gun ownership, whereas the actual issue at hand is cultural malaise. Fix the culture, and the number of guns, and number of households with guns, becomes a non-issue.

Admittedly, it won't do a thing about ND's. Non-intentional Discharges track almost entirely along the lines of guns in existence, with some influence from safe firearms handling education. Put simply, the more guns that are around you, the more often you handle said guns, and the more often you are exposed to ND's. I can say this quite clearly, as every generation of my family on my dad's side (rural NC) has been very serious gun owners, and every generation has had at least one person get shot by an ND (great-great uncle, grandfather, dad, and cousin). And the three previous generations to mine the person handling the gun that caused the ND was a veteran of the military and well-trained in safe gun handling.

This is no argument against gun education. Quite the contrary, given the number of firearms owned by my family (I own in excess of ten, and I am in no way unusual in my family), and the time spent with gun in hand, the fact that ND's have only caused one gunshot wound per generation is testament to good gun handling. I was taught to be safe around guns from the age of four, and first shot at five.

As a final note, four ND's that I am aware of in my own family history, and three of them had alcohol or drugs as a material contributor to the ND. The one that did not was caused expressly by ammunition malfunction (my dad). Yes, that one still had poor gun-handling as a component (because anal-retentive gun handling might have prevented his wound, but not his ND), but the ammo failed rather blatantly, and he would not have had a problem had it not be for the rim on the casing peeling off when he tried to extract the round.

Anyway, somehow modifying how we as a culture look at guns would, to my eyes, more effective long-term than simply banning them or legislating them to the point where legal ownership is so difficult/expensive as to make ownership strictly the province of the well-to-do. You would think that Prohibition would have taught our govt the folly of all-out ban, but the insipid Drug War is proof that we never learn. Fortunately, the democrats have finally seemed to catch the clue that being against the 2nd amendment was seriously hemhorraging votes, and they've backed off. Smart move.

I don't personally have a problem with reasonable restrictions on purchases. I was actually happy when VA went to the instant check system for background checks. Barring that first week or so when the system was coming online, the instant has never been an onerous infringement at all. One phone call, generally, and you were done. Once or twice, something comes up. My friend Paul went to buy a pistol, and the purchase was put on hold for five days because he had the same name, and same city of record, as someone wanted for a recent murder. Once the state police contacted him and found that he was not that guy, the purchase went through. In theory, had that person tried to buy, the instant check would have foiled it. Of course very few people wanted for murder, or involved seriously in crime at all, buy their guns legally, but that is another story.

Project Exile had some serious effect on gun crime in Richmond, VA and is representative of the cultural modification that functions where outright bans do not.

 

[unfoundiamond]

how can empowering someone with knowledge be wrong.

I don't understand.

If you raise your children with good morals and they don't have homicidal tendancies then if you tech them gun safety and basic gun knowledge then they won't use that knowledge for malicious reasons or vengance.

I don't fear teaching my children. I fear them seeking out knowledge that is wrong or wading out into the quicksand that is life, with no basic reffrences to keep them safe... this can apply to drugs, guns, sex, preditors... whatever.

I see adults limiting their children out of fear and I allude it to the movie Hook, and the children are trying to show the adult how to see life again through the eyes of a child.

Don't forget what it was like to be small. Knowledge is power. Even then, don't fear what you've created, hone it.

"Momma was a G, Daddy was a G, wasn't nothing left for him to be but a G."- comes to mind.

My children will benefit from my lessons and what I have learned, and that's probably the closest thing I can pin the meaning of life to.

*pork and beans is playing in the background* I can't see a more apropriate song.

*rocks out*

"Ima do the things that I wanna do, I aint a thing to prove to you..." -weezer.

 

[WriterDom]

I overheard a phone conversation at Walmart one night. The lady was explaining to someone that they can't sell a gun after 10pm. Walked over to the beer section and some lady asked me if it was too late to buy beer. I said no you just can't buy a gun. She thought that was pretty funny.

I have a twelve gauge pump and a 16 gauge automatic. Sold my double barrel 20 gauge to my brother. I'd like another 20 because they are fun to shoot. You have to be a masochist to shoot the 12 with 3.5 inch shells. It will bring tears to your eyes. I'd have to be shooting at a turkey to ever fire off another of those bad boys.