Do you own a firearm?

[Netzach]

For everyone's consideration...

I submit this. Check the photos.


Now, a visualization.

Imagine this non-profit as started by Jay-Z.

Richard Pryor was right.

 

[Marquis]

Are the people who mentor youth, start midnight basketball, organize the block instead of getting their permits "accepting defenselessness?"

Not at all, just saying I appreciate the soundbyte as a machismo rationale for packing heat.

 

[Netzach]

Not at all, just saying I appreciate the soundbyte as a machismo rationale for packing heat.

Cool.

 

[Betticus]

I inherited from my father the same pistol that I first shot as a four year old little boy. It's a Smith and Wesson model 39, 9mm dual action semi automatic that holds 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber.

Some may say that letting or encouraging a four year old to shoot a real gun, let alone a pistol is a wreckless and dangerous endeavour but for me that gun feels like a part of my hand and I never miss. I never accidentally fire it and I never treat it like an afterthought. I'm always nervous even if I know it's unloaded.

I have also never been in a situation where I had to use it. I've come close but my natural alpha male dominance in those two situations were enough to overcome the bad things.

 

[Netzach]

I inherited from my father the same pistol that I first shot as a four year old little boy. It's a Smith and Wesson model 39, 9mm dual action semi automatic that holds 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber.

Some may say that letting or encouraging a four year old to shoot a real gun, let alone a pistol is a wreckless and dangerous endeavour but for me that gun feels like a part of my hand and I never miss. I never accidentally fire it and I never treat it like an afterthought. I'm always nervous even if I know it's unloaded.

I have also never been in a situation where I had to use it. I've come close but my natural alpha male dominance in those two situations were enough to overcome the bad things.

I think it's contextual. I was reading from the WSJ at four and was paranoid about accidentally ingesting household poisons. If I had farmers instead of neurotics around me, I could see how it would work.

 

[Betticus]

I think it's contextual. I was reading from the WSJ at four and was paranoid about accidentally ingesting household poisons. If I had farmers instead of neurotics around me, I could see how it would work.

It does work. At four, having shot the real thing and then after having to clean it, oil it and make sure that it was ready to go with clean magazines took the mystery out of it for me. For me now it's a powerful tool, not a toy or an oddity. A toy that can snuff a life out but a tool nonetheless.

 

[YourCaptor]

Some thought on the right to bear arms.

I think the second amendment was born out of revolution and oppression.

The purpose was probably aimed at giving people the power to blow out the brains of an oppressive state.

I doubt it was meant as wild west style protection.

The problem with the 2nd amendment is that once you have a body controlling guns, you run the risk of guns being taken away by oppressors. But without regulations come other problems.

I would guess that the founding fathers where probably picturing future Americans as keeping grandpas rifle in the attic in case king George shows up.

 

[Betticus]

When one reads the writings of Thomas Jefferson that relate to the second amendment it's clear that what they are talking about is not a societal right to bear arms and to defend ones self but that basic human nature reflects these traits. Even at our most animalistic we will defend our babies and our mate.

 

[SouthernDom]

Not having a firearm isn't necessarily being unarmed. If you want to dismiss that as stupid, look up the injuries done to police fighting perps with knives versus guns, it's kind of interesting. There's also the "safety in numbers" aspect of a city, block watches, jiu jitsu, and whatever else. There's preventative work, like seeing to it that no one has to be so desperate and fucked up they NEED to rob people for a living, a fix, or entertainment, but that's really not worth doing if you can just have guns.

No one's needling you for doing what you need to do to feel safe, fuck you for needling other people. It's a personal decision. I am more likely to die under a pancaking piece of shit taxpayer owned bridge than I am at the hands of a gunman. I'm more likely to shoot myself.

I grew up in one of the more violent parts of the country and the much more common sense approach of "don't go there" "don't walk in that direction" "get home before dark" has developed a keen urban spidey sense that I'm *glad* I didn't have the cockswinging assurance to not develop.

Reality is, the law is also NOT on the side of self defense. If, God forbid, I have to put a wusthoff trident though my attacker's neck and I survive the incident, there's going to be a lot of scrutiny and the likelihood that my life is going to be spared to be ruined for at least a decade or so in courts and jail. If you really know the law in some places, it's sobering, it makes conceal carry much less attractive and much less "easy solution to personal safety" and that's OK, by me, it should never be the first solution that springs to mind when you are sizing up a situation - if you CAN escape you should have to escape. The sanctity of property is a horseshit reason to kill some cuckoo crackhead who wants your TV.

I live a different reality than you and one you most likely could never understand...........but I will try to fill in the blanks.

In most places I stay overnight you're looking at a 10 to 15 minute response time for the LEOs should there be a home invasion or road rage incident while traveling late at night. That estimate is based on the ability to get cellphone service in the first place in order to call the nearest sheriff's office.

It's sorta like the wild west of days gone by whereas everyone MUST be able to defend themselves at a moment's notice and that means one needs a firearm to level the playing field in the event you must face down an armed meth head who is janked up with superhuman strength after being on a 3 day roll.

To date I have stopped three potentially fatal situations when I made it known to the perp that I was armed and prepared to use deadly force. One home invasion, a road rage incident and a stalker/ threatened rapist all changed their mind before the pull of the trigger was needed on my part.

Had I not been armed during the aforementioned encounters, I might not be here for you to tell me ''fuck you for needling others.''

 

[YourCaptor]

When one reads the writings of Thomas Jefferson that relate to the second amendment it's clear that what they are talking about is not a societal right to bear arms and to defend ones self but that basic human nature reflects these traits. Even at our most animalistic we will defend our babies and our mate.

The state of nature, all bets off. That part of the law has always been iffy. If someone breaks the social contract, then you can shoot them without trial. However you aren't supose too, because their is a court system, so what you are supose to do is not a science.

Interesting story, a few years ago 3 guys broke into a local take out place. The owner blew one of them away in the store, and then chase the other two out across the parking lot and killed a second one. He was only suppose too face charges for the second killing, but then someone shot him

Natural law is lame anyway.

 

[Netzach]

I live a different reality than you and one you most likely could never understand...........but I will try to fill in the blanks.

In most places I stay overnight you're looking at a 10 to 15 minute response time for the LEOs should there be a home invasion or road rage incident while traveling late at night. That estimate is based on the ability to get cellphone service in the first place in order to call the nearest sheriff's office.

It's sorta like the wild west of days gone by whereas everyone MUST be able to defend themselves at a moment's notice and that means one needs a firearm to level the playing field in the event you must face down an armed meth head who is janked up with superhuman strength after being on a 3 day roll.

To date I have stopped three potentially fatal situations when I made it known to the perp that I was armed and prepared to use deadly force. One home invasion, a road rage incident and a stalker/ threatened rapist all changed their mind before the pull of the trigger was needed on my part.

Had I not been armed during the aforementioned encounters, I might not be here for you to tell me ''fuck you for needling others.''

I get that, you don't get that I get that.

What pisses me off is you can't seem to understand that other people are in just as varied cicumstances, and you're acting like everyone has this "duty to carry" wherever they are. Or whoever they are. The decision to not carry and to say "I've chosen not to do this" isn't a stupid move and isn't a kick me sign just because YOU say it is. It's the more responsible decision for a lot of people.

 

[Desdemona]

Frankly

Unless you know what it is to fear for your life and be faced with the possibility of having to defend yourself, it's all academic.

I don't live in the wild west. I live in an American city. I know what it's like to be alone while a large stranger tries to enter my home in broad daylight. I know what it is to hide behind furniture while calling 911 with a loaded weapon by my side as I watch my dog throw herself at the doors and windows barking madly in an effort to scare him away and protect me. I know what it is to wait with a dry mouth, trying to keep my hands from shaking as the stranger continued trying to invade my home in spite of the dog's frenzy. I saw the look on his face as he stood watching my dog go nuts from the other side of the window. I know how scared I was as the minutes spent waiting for the cops to arrive seemed to stretch into an eternity. I know what it is to come to terms with the fact that I may have to kill another person in order to survive. I know that if that guy had come into my house, I would have pulled the trigger with intent to kill. I'm grateful that I didn't have to actually do it and face living with the death of another person at my hand.

What I describe above sounds like something from fiction, but I lived it 20 years ago. The memory hasn't faded a bit and I doubt it ever will. It was a horrifying experience. Unfortunately, lots of people have to cope with similar and worse experiences.

There are criminals out there and crazy people who play with guns in an irresponsible manner. As a nurse, I've seen up close what a bullet can do to the human body. I've cleaned up the mess made by human brains, bone and blood spattered on a wall. I've comforted grieving people whose loved one died after being shot in spite heroic efforts. I've dealt with the shells of people who exist in a vegetative state and those who now live with permanent disfigurement after gunplay. None of this is theoretical to me. It's real.

That said, I must be able to defend myself and my home if necessary. Taking guns away from our citizens will not prevent gun related crimes in this country. It will only make us more vulnerable to the criminals and the crazies. The second amendment is precious to me and I will fight any and all efforts to take my right to own a gun away.

I also support others who choose to defend themselves in other ways. If you can use a knife, your own hands, a stick or a frying pan to keep yourself safe, go for it. I need a gun.

 

[WriterDom]

Damn des, they are going to take away your liberal card if you keep talking like that.

 

[Desdemona]

no worries

Damn des, they are going to take away your liberal card if you keep talking like that.

My liberal card is safe. If anybody tries to take it away, I'll show 'em my gun.

Talk to me about healthcare, immigration, etc and I'll swing to the far left so fast you'll get whiplash.

 

[graceanne]

Oddly enough the talk of guns came up at the river yesterday. My brother in law was telling a story that recently happened to his daughter. Some crank-addict showed up on her steps last week, screaming and trying to break into her house. Lauren called the police (who normally take HOURS to get anywhere) and said "I have a loaded gun in my lap, if she breaks down my door I will open fire."

The police were there in two minutes.

 

[Desdemona]

It's amazing how well that threat works.

Oddly enough the talk of guns came up at the river yesterday. My brother in law was telling a story that recently happened to his daughter. Some crank-addict showed up on her steps last week, screaming and trying to break into her house. Lauren called the police (who normally take HOURS to get anywhere) and said "I have a loaded gun in my lap, if she breaks down my door I will open fire."

The police were there in two minutes.

I'm glad they got there fast.

 

[Homburg]

I'm curious about this: can you track the crime rate before and after this required ownership law was passed? Has Kennesaw's relative crime rate (i.e., relative to the surrounding area and relative to other similar municipalities elsewhere) changed much since the time when the ownership legislation was put on the books?

The thing is, crime rates generally dropped across the board in the mid to late 90's and so any shift in a municipality that tracked generally with larger trends won't demonstrate that a certain piece of legislation was responsible for the change. And because crime rates are measured in a variety of ways, it's really difficult to get useful comparisons. Very often such discussions revolve around one side describing apples and the other side talking about oranges.

Why ask for crime rate statistics, and then declare statistics worthless in general?

 

[Aaronh]

Yep. A Glock model 22 in .40 caliber, a semi auto .22 and two antique .22's.

 

[graceanne]

I'm glad they got there fast.

Seriously. She's had other problems, and they've never done squat. But her with a loaded gun sure got their attention.

The problem is that clackamas county has a really small police force, cause the county is really small. But at night time their's only six cops. So unless it involves blood and mayhem, they won't even come out to your house.

 

[Homburg]

I inherited from my father the same pistol that I first shot as a four year old little boy. It's a Smith and Wesson model 39, 9mm dual action semi automatic that holds 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber.

Some may say that letting or encouraging a four year old to shoot a real gun, let alone a pistol is a wreckless and dangerous endeavour but for me that gun feels like a part of my hand and I never miss. I never accidentally fire it and I never treat it like an afterthought. I'm always nervous even if I know it's unloaded.

I have also never been in a situation where I had to use it. I've come close but my natural alpha male dominance in those two situations were enough to overcome the bad things.

It does work. At four, having shot the real thing and then after having to clean it, oil it and make sure that it was ready to go with clean magazines took the mystery out of it for me. For me now it's a powerful tool, not a toy or an oddity. A toy that can snuff a life out but a tool nonetheless.

This was essentially my experience as a five year old, excepting that it was a whole lot more gun. My dad took my uncle Mark and I out with him to the range. I was five, Mark was about 11 or 12 at the time. My father only owned one handgun, a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Mark shot it once and nearly ate it from the recoil. My dad threw his arm in the way and prevented dental rearrangement. In an effort to josh my uncle, he said I could shoot it ("A baby could shoot this thing, watch!") and had me do it. He stood behind me and put his arms alongside mine, but didn't hold my hands or anything. I fired it just fine. Afterwards, I was taught how to clean said Blackhawk.

There was never any mystery to guns for me. Never any question, never any sort of forbidden fruit yearnings.

----

Some thought on the right to bear arms.

I think the second amendment was born out of revolution and oppression.

The purpose was probably aimed at giving people the power to blow out the brains of an oppressive state.

I doubt it was meant as wild west style protection.

The problem with the 2nd amendment is that once you have a body controlling guns, you run the risk of guns being taken away by oppressors. But without regulations come other problems.

I would guess that the founding fathers where probably picturing future Americans as keeping grandpas rifle in the attic in case king George shows up.

There are a number of period writings that bear this out. The 2nd amendment was there to ensure that the populace would retain the means to reset the govt in the face of tyranny.

 

[Desdemona]

I'm not surprised.

Seriously. She's had other problems, and they've never done squat. But her with a loaded gun sure got their attention.

The problem is that clackamas county has a really small police force, cause the county is really small. But at night time their's only six cops. So unless it involves blood and mayhem, they won't even come out to your house.

Unfortunately, it's like that in alot of places.

 

[graceanne]

Unfortunately, it's like that in alot of places.

Yep. Yet another reason why I think people should have guns, especially if they're a bit out of the way or in a small county. Where Lauren lives they have a private police force, but she's on the outskirts of town and their's maybe six cops TOTAL in the police force. What if the police hadn't been able to get to her house in time?

 

[pink]

The only thing i have is 1 90 lb dog and 1 60 lb dog who'd probably try to rip your dick off, if anyone tried to break in here. They are very protective of their home.

 

[Desdemona]

That's an awful spot to be in

Yep. Yet another reason why I think people should have guns, especially if they're a bit out of the way or in a small county. Where Lauren lives they have a private police force, but she's on the outskirts of town and their's maybe six cops TOTAL in the police force. What if the police hadn't been able to get to her house in time?

I hope she really does know how to use her gun.

 

[SouthernDom]

I get that, you don't get that I get that.

What pisses me off is you can't seem to understand that other people are in just as varied cicumstances, and you're acting like everyone has this "duty to carry" wherever they are. Or whoever they are. The decision to not carry and to say "I've chosen not to do this" isn't a stupid move and isn't a kick me sign just because YOU say it is. It's the more responsible decision for a lot of people.

IMO...... It's my duty as a parent to protect me and mine with the most effective, legal means I can properly use. In my situation, that means being armed with a self defense firearm.

Of course........YMMV?

Obviously this is a differing POV issue and a circular debate. I can agree to disagree and move on if you can?