Do you write about what you like? Or what you find interesting? Or something else?

[ElectricBlue]

In my opinion, most of the stories in BDSM aren't very good.

Either that or they're too short and/or not enough character development to keep stories interesting. Most stories are quickies about random submission, where the submission has already happened (ie pre-existing relationships, serving a master, etc...)

I suspect also there's a reaction/push back from the whole Fifty Shades of Grey bollocks, where there's been a band-wagon folk have jumped on, and the afficionados are saying, "Fuck off, don't trample in our territory."

Also, from what I can see, there's a whole bunch of amateur psychology associated with the "scene" (whatever that means) which results in a bunch of cliche and predictable tropes - the dom, the domme, the brat, the sub, whatever. For example, there's that BDSM profile questionnaire thingie on line, and I've seen people "quote their profile" as if it's all meaningful, when it really isn't.

You can even see it on the BDSM forums here - I occasionally go read some of the threads and come away thinking, "Really?" I wouldn't trust some of those jokers to run a sausage sizzle, let alone run a scene. And god help the truly fragile, who give themselves up to those clowns. I not sure it's always healthy.

 

[Hypoxia]

When I write (not lately) it's whatever the voices in my head insist on. It's usually not stuff I dislike much, but that can happen. I'm written-out on a few tropes but more await, when the voices activate again. Watch out.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

In my opinion, most of the stories in BDSM aren't very good.

Either that or they're too short and/or not enough character development to keep stories interesting. Most stories are quickies about random submission, where the submission has already happened (ie pre-existing relationships, serving a master, etc...)

In all categories, stories with some level of plot and build-up are the most popular. That's what people want out of erotica.

So I guess that's why people stopped going there for the most part. But there are a few popular stories every now and then.

I think you're right about the BDSM stories being too short a lot of the time. It's a complicated dynamic, really, but a lot of the authors there seem to jump to "she suddenly discovers she's naturally submissive" or "he suddenly realizes he's a Dom" and it gets even more formulaic from there. When I was reading more irl S/m blogs, the most interesting posts were the ones that talked about the emotional dynamic between the top and the bottom, the build up of trust, the communication. Sure, the posts that reported on play sessions were titillating, but what really drew me in was the interplay between the people that laid the foundation for the kinky stuff. And that's what seems to be lacking in a lot of the BDSM stories.

I try to convey that in my stories, and I think I'm getting better at it, but I don't think you can do that in a few thousand words.

 

[KeithD]

Not everyone into BDSM or any other kink has to construct the wheel from scratch each time. After the first time they pretty much know what they'll do and why they'll do it. Therefore, I don't see why every story has to cover that preparation ground all over again. Seems pretty tedious to me. I most often start the story with those already past the discovery and justification period. The story is about some other dynamic in the issue. Most people doing kink, in fact, are beyond this period. So are most readers gravitating to the fetish stories, although, yes, there's some set of readers more interested in "how they got there" than in "what they'll do next time." Not all stories have to serve only one of these, though. Read the approaches you like and let others read what they like.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Not everyone into BDSM or any other kink has to construct the wheel from scratch each time. After the first time they pretty much know what they'll do and why they'll do it. Therefore, I don't see why every story has to cover that preparation ground all over again. Seems pretty tedious to me. I most often start the story with those already past the discovery and justification period. The story is about some other dynamic in the issue. Most people doing kink, in fact, are beyond this period. So are most readers gravitating to the fetish stories, although, yes, there's some set of readers more interested in "how they got there" than in "what they'll do next time." Not all stories have to serve only one of these, though. Read the approaches you like and let others read what they like.

I'm not talking about "how you got there", I'm talking about the ongoing relationship that sustains the kink. The dynamic that makes it believable as part of human sexuality, rather than a cardboard cutout.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not talking about "how you got there", I'm talking about the ongoing relationship that sustains the kink. The dynamic that makes it believable as part of human sexuality, rather than a cardboard cutout.

I'm not rigid about it, but I am, to some extent, an advocate of the "how you got there" approach to erotica.

Generally speaking, a story is better when the protagonist confronts something new. In the erotic context, this typically means a new erotic experience. The first time son has sex with mom is the most erotic. The first time the shy librarian strips naked in the reference section is the most erotic. The first time having butt sex is the most erotic. The first time being tied up is the most erotic. This isn't an inflexible rule, but it often holds.

Once a character has agreed to submit to being tied up once, the author has to dream up something new and interesting to make the second time being tied up as erotic. It's possible, but it takes effort.

I tend to write standalone stories because I'm interested in having characters confront something new. In my multi-chapter series I deal with this by having the character deal in each successive chapter with more and more extreme forms of sexual experience or activity.

One of the most popular and highly rated BDSM stories on this site is Culture Shock, by Sir Nathan. It's a very long story, and it deals exclusively wtih the "how she got there" aspect of a young woman's embrace of a submissive relationship with a dominant man she meets online. The story doesn't deal at all with the relationship once it's established. But it works. And that's precisely because it is the newness and strangeness of the BDSM lifestyle to the woman's experience that is the crucial erotic element.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I'm not rigid about it, but I am, to some extent, an advocate of the "how you got there" approach to erotica.

Generally speaking, a story is better when the protagonist confronts something new. In the erotic context, this typically means a new erotic experience. The first time son has sex with mom is the most erotic. The first time the shy librarian strips naked in the reference section is the most erotic. The first time having butt sex is the most erotic. The first time being tied up is the most erotic. This isn't an inflexible rule, but it often holds.

This holds for you. You are clear that you are most interested in the first time experiences of things.

That's not true for me. I think it's not true for a lot of people. As KeithD is so fond of saying, there's no one Lit reader, there's no one average erotica reader. So, you like stories in which people are doing things they've never done before. The stories I write that are the most meaningful to me (either emotionally or sexually) are ones that place the sex in a larger emotional context, which (imo) is more believable in an ongoing relationship. Not that you have to delineate every aspect of the ongoing relationship, but I like it when it's sketched well enough that I can get a sense of the rationale the people have for trusting each other.

I especially think that's true if you're writing about some of the more extreme kinks. For me, it requires too much suspension of disbelief to think that a person just meets another person and immediately agrees to some more extreme kind of sex.

 

[KeithD]

I'm not talking about "how you got there", I'm talking about the ongoing relationship that sustains the kink. The dynamic that makes it believable as part of human sexuality, rather than a cardboard cutout.

There's no requirement for a story to sustain a relationship. It's not unbelievable when a relationship isn't sustained. A whole lot of relationships aren't sustained in real life. Fiction is not as limiting as some who post to the board want to make it.

What is the purpose of you people posting what you personally want to read and how it should be written on the discussion board? Why do you do it? People doing this should do some thinking on their motivation for doing it--again and again and again.

 

[KyraSaden]

For the most part, I write things that interest me on a creative level and that also turn me on. I like reading, I like erotica, but there isn't a lot of stuff out there that closely aligns with the kind of erotica I'd like to read and that means I'm gonna need to write it myself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That being said, I also enjoy challenges--the challenge of catering to an extremely niche kink, the challenge of doing well in an uncharted genre, the challenge of competing with other authors in a contest. As an added bonus, I think expanding your horizons ultimately helps you write the things you do love so, so much better and getting a chance to explore alternative perspectives/topics/whatever is (almost) always fun. Though some stuff is squicky enough to me personally that it's not worth the challenge.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What is the purpose of you people posting what you personally want to read and how it should be written on the discussion board? Why do you do it? People doing this should do some thinking on their motivation for doing it--again and again and again.

Because it's an Author's Hangout, and writers here are interested in a whole range of things, including why they write, why others write. It's part of being an on-line community - and we have quite a few new participants so yes, we're seeing the same discussions we've seen a hundred times.

Most people make it clear that they are expressing their own preferences and yes, some could be less prescriptive or absolutist about their opinions, but I think it's (mostly) understood that not every post needs to be prefaced by a statement, "These are my own views" - I personally think that goes without saying.

If it's so problematic for you (and it clearly is), one could fairly ask, "What are you doing here?" Nearly ever thread irks you in some way - and you rarely if ever start a thread of your own. Perhaps you're shy. I don't know. But strangely, we all know your views, because you express them again and again and again. You could save yourself a whole bunch of grief if you just passed it all by.

 

[KeithD]

Most people make it clear that they are expressing their own preferences

Actually, no they don't. Most of them going the "my preference" route make it clear that since they've written a story or two and gotten a red H at Literotica, they've discovered the Holy Grail of writing and want everyone else to write that way--and not write any other way, like, just now, only write about relationships that are sustainable or never use measurements, even by a character, or always having to have likable characters--or do whatever you think the universal Literotica reader wants to coax her/him to give you that oh-so-important 5 vote that proves you are a instantaneous master writer.

 

[KeithD]

If it's so problematic for you (and it clearly is), one could fairly ask, "What are you doing here?" Nearly ever thread irks you in some way - and you rarely if ever start a thread of your own. Perhaps you're shy. I don't know. But strangely, we all know your views, because you express them again and again and again. You could save yourself a whole bunch of grief if you just passed it all by.

You are being offensive.

You also are wanting it both ways. No, I don't originate a lot of threads, which means that I'm only expressing my opinion again and again and again because folks like you are initiating the expression of your opinions again and again and again.

I'm one of the most prolific authors (contributors of the site's product) on this site and I'm also one of the most knowledgeable contributors to the discussion on providing educated help to other users in both writing and publishing.

So you can take your "what are you doing here?" and stick it up your ass.

 

[KyraSaden]

I think you're right about the BDSM stories being too short a lot of the time. It's a complicated dynamic, really, but a lot of the authors there seem to jump to "she suddenly discovers she's naturally submissive" or "he suddenly realizes he's a Dom" and it gets even more formulaic from there.

I very much agree. A lot of stories in the BDSM subsection are focused solely on kink and completely forgo any exploration of interpersonal dynamics, using the tension and power imbalances often permeating play as compensation for the supposed "relationship." Now don't get me wrong, that can be hot in short bursts, but it isn't very compelling story-wise. Plus as you mentioned in another comment, it requires a certain degree of suspension of disbelief. And yet, building up a relationship (usually) takes a lot of words, so there's often a trade-off.

I do think you can write about a previously established dynamic and still have drive and believability in your story, but then everything else has to be on point--dialogue, plot, world-building elements. It has to feel like there's a legitimate, well-negotiated power exchange dynamic going on without us ever getting to see the development of that dynamic take place. It has to feel natural. That means a lot of character work needs to be done completely off-screen and that's a lot of effort for a one-off. I've seen it done plenty of times, but on a website where anyone can post pretty much anything barring a few restrictions? Most of what goes up is gonna be a lot more along the lines of straight up descriptions of kinky play than anything else.

I'm not rigid about it, but I am, to some extent, an advocate of the "how you got there" approach to erotica. Generally speaking, a story is better when the protagonist confronts something new.

I also agree with this, but pretty much for the same reasons. Even if a story never gets to the "established relationship" phase, as long as we get to see an actual dynamic unfolding at a realistic pace, then there's something to compel readers from a story standpoint. The first phase of a developing relationships still counts as a developing relationship and just because we don't get to see how it ends doesn't mean it can't feel real. Plus, first times are just inherently hot for a lot of people, largely because new stuff often feels "taboo" and exciting just by virtue of being new.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

My question: Why do you write the particular themes you do?
Is it because it is a theme/category/situation that you yourself like?
Or is there another reason? Maybe you write a certain category because that's what you know, maybe you write it in an effort to understand, maybe even to challenge yourself into writing about something you have no interest in

Thanks again for putting up with me

-->Many say write what you know, I do that, or at least what I think I know and fake it real good, with the matternof the Peanuts fan fict I started uploading here; the lil knowledge in my head and what was online. I write what I like or throw in things Iike, such as cars. None of my characters who own cars, have some appliance like a Camry. I'm poly so some characters and situations play on that aspect, and I'm pan, so there are often lgbt characters. Plus I try to stick to things I find easy to write. I tried a gay gothic romance with dark humor, couldn't grasp it. I've got incest(that needs finished) on here because I like incest and I find it easy. If you think about it; anything you write can be a challenge nomatter how knowledgable you might be in it. I originally had no interest in fanfiction until I started reading it out of boredom, then years ago I wrote a Daria fan fict. I'm actually rewriting that, now. I don't know how many sections here I've written in, but Now that I am writing again, I might try and spread some. Gotta get my work out there, have people see this name.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I very much agree. A lot of stories in the BDSM subsection are focused solely on kink and completely forgo any exploration of interpersonal dynamics, using the tension and power imbalances often permeating play as compensation for the supposed "relationship." Now don't get me wrong, that can be hot in short bursts, but it isn't very compelling story-wise. Plus as you mentioned in another comment, it requires a certain degree of suspension of disbelief. And yet, building up a relationship (usually) takes a lot of words, so there's often a trade-off.

I do think you can write about a previously established dynamic and still have drive and believability in your story, but then everything else has to be on point--dialogue, plot, world-building elements. It has to feel like there's a legitimate, well-negotiated power exchange dynamic going on without us ever getting to see the development of that dynamic take place. It has to feel natural. That means a lot of character work needs to be done completely off-screen and that's a lot of effort for a one-off. I've seen it done plenty of times, but on a website where anyone can post pretty much anything barring a few restrictions? Most of what goes up is gonna be a lot more along the lines of straight up descriptions of kinky play than anything else.

I've written both kinds of stories here. I haven't been writing long, and I'll admit that the results have been uneven. Especially because the BDSM stories I write tend to prominently feature masochists, specifically, rather than submissives, the reader needs to know something about why the person is just standing there letting someone else do all manner of painful things. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

And that's probably the biggest reason I disagree with Simon about the first time always being the most erotic. Sure, the taboo aspect of something can be arousing, and the first time you let someone tie you up your nerves will be up. But after you trust that the person knows that they're doing? Once they've tied you up and you can relax into it and experience the rest of whatever happens? Once you believe that the person you're giving control will use that to make sure you have as much fun as they do? To me, that's even hotter. That's when all the possibilities open up.

And personally, I think that's true of most kinds of sexy things. Sure, the first time you do something it can be ennervating in the best way. But once you know what you're doing? Once you get good at it? For me, that's better.

 

[ChloeTzang]

This whole thread’s been really interesting to read, so thank you everyone. I know you didn’t intend it for my personal benefit but I’ve picked up a lot from it - and that’s one of the things I love about the Authors Hangout. So many really well expressed divergent views, opinions and experience. So speaking for myself, thank you all, very much. I am now about to venture into bdsm and give it a try. (Writing the story, but doing it lol - anticipating the comments ).

 

[yukonnights]

BelleCanzuto: But after you trust that the person knows that they're doing? Once they've tied you up and you can relax into it and experience the rest of whatever happens? Once you believe that the person you're giving control will use that to make sure you have as much fun as they do? To me, that's even hotter. That's when all the possibilities open up.

This is both lovely and informative. I love having access to these snippets of experiences. BDSM is a tricky dynamic content for erotica, IMO. Get it wrong and it's really wrong. It's probably the one kink that has a more or less codified set of guidelines that folks in the scene are sensitive about.

I've not written to the BDSM category, but do like to explore the more general D/s dynamic that is common in most human couplings and/or groups. Probably most of us do this at some level — even if unintentional. As I've often said, it's these subtle interior elements that tickle my feathers. (are feathers even ticklish )

I'll be sure to read some of your stories to see how you pull it off.

 

[PennameWombat]

Ok, I've probably used up my quota with my numerous questions on here, but I am new on the forums and my curiosity is pretty much unparalleled. I also don't get a chance to talk to other writers outside of here, so forgive me if I am overdoing it- I will try to make this my last question for now.

My question: Why do you write the particular themes you do?
Is it because it is a theme/category/situation that you yourself like?
Or is there another reason? Maybe you write a certain category because that's what you know, maybe you write it in an effort to understand, maybe even to challenge yourself into writing about something you have no interest in?

<snip>

Thanks again for putting up with me

If you look at my profile, and according to one prominent poster here you should definitely understand the background of those of us offering our experiences or advice, you'll see most of my catalog is set in a single universe. It mostly hews to a few categories, SciFi & Fantasy, NonHuman, Erotic Horror, Exhibitionist & Voyeur.

I have some stories in other categories (both in my main universe and other universes) and some one-offs and other such miscellany (a few in EC).

But I've admitted elsewhere I don't aim for categories for the sake of getting a checkmark in each or every category. I write about characters that I can in some way relate to. While there are plenty of autobiographical bits & pieces in characters, settings and events, none of these are "me". But yes, I draw inspiration from my life experiences but try not to let that limit me.

I've always been drawn to speculative fiction in my reading tastes, but mainly the SciFi side, which you'll easily glean from my catalog here. Not everything, but that's the way my brain works.

Would I write beyond the categories I've covered? I did do a Group one recently because it fit what the characters were doing, it wasn't "I need to do a Group Sex category."

It's not that I object to doing research, it's that if it doesn't interest me IRL then it doesn't overly interest me to write about. On the BDSM points here, years ago I was in a BSDM-focused relationship IRL. But I've never drawn from that because what I discovered was while I was interested primarily in the woman, her primary interest was BDSM and me, I could take it or leave it. It was amicable and we moved on. But that experience leaves me with little interest in doing BDSM themes here.

 

[KyraSaden]

...that's probably the biggest reason I disagree with Simon about the first time always being the most erotic. Sure, the taboo aspect of something can be arousing, and the first time you let someone tie you up your nerves will be up. But after you trust that the person knows that they're doing? Once they've tied you up and you can relax into it and experience the rest of whatever happens? Once you believe that the person you're giving control will use that to make sure you have as much fun as they do? To me, that's even hotter. That's when all the possibilities open up.

And personally, I think that's true of most kinds of sexy things. Sure, the first time you do something it can be ennervating in the best way. But once you know what you're doing? Once you get good at it? For me, that's better.

I am 100% with you! And once you establish a long-term play partner relationship with a sadist who knows you well enough to exploit your personal weaknesses (consensually, of course)? That's the good shit right there.

But while my personal preference might be for well-established dynamics (or the gradual progression of soon-to-be-established dynamics) storytelling-wise, I definitely get the appeal of the "first time." The very first BDSM scene I ever did at a public dungeon was hot largely because I'd spent years fantasizing about doing this thing and now it was actually happening, OMG! First times may not be "the hottest" for everyone, but a LOT of people fetishize novelty and I don't see anything "less than" about focusing on the early phases of a developing relationship in order to tap into that novelty.

I've written both kinds of stories here. I haven't been writing long, and I'll admit that the results have been uneven. Especially because the BDSM stories I write tend to prominently feature masochists, specifically, rather than submissives, the reader needs to know something about why the person is just standing there letting someone else do all manner of painful things. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

Dude, even in the BDSM community, people struggle to understand the Top/bottom v.s. D/s distinction. I commend you for daring to tackle it on an erotica website. Godspeed.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I very much agree. A lot of stories in the BDSM subsection are focused solely on kink and completely forgo any exploration of interpersonal dynamics, using the tension and power imbalances often permeating play as compensation for the supposed "relationship." Now don't get me wrong, that can be hot in short bursts, but it isn't very compelling story-wise. Plus as you mentioned in another comment, it requires a certain degree of suspension of disbelief. And yet, building up a relationship (usually) takes a lot of words, so there's often a trade-off.

I do think you can write about a previously established dynamic and still have drive and believability in your story, but then everything else has to be on point--dialogue, plot, world-building elements. It has to feel like there's a legitimate, well-negotiated power exchange dynamic going on without us ever getting to see the development of that dynamic take place. It has to feel natural. That means a lot of character work needs to be done completely off-screen and that's a lot of effort for a one-off. I've seen it done plenty of times, but on a website where anyone can post pretty much anything barring a few restrictions? Most of what goes up is gonna be a lot more along the lines of straight up descriptions of kinky play than anything else.

Agreed, but one of the most interesting stories I’ve written (from the writing perspective) was Dianne, a tale from a sub’s POV. It was definitely in a BDSM setting, but I filed it as a Romance story and still think that was the right choice. It was only three pages, but that’s about typical for me. It did well enough, but I was happiest about the favourable comments it drew. A fun experiment.

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

Evelyn,

This not being a call centre, people here only answer questions when it pleases them. Most of us, I suspect, enjoy this - it makes us think. If you get tiresome, people will stop answering.

No longer being required by a boss or schoolmaster to write about things I find boring and not under contract to earn money with my scribblings, I of course only write about things which I find enjoyable or at least pleasent. No doubt many of them reflect my own quirks and kinks, although I have written some by request to reflect somebody else's fantasies.

Oh, welcome to our circle. Nice to have a fresh face here.

Indeed welcome. I am fairly new myself but oddly I never set out to write in a particular genre. I stated writing an alt history near future SF story and after reading AH determined that since it was slavery based it almost had to be non con. Which makes sense I have danced on the edge and had one story that was essentially incest slavery and got away with i/t although I did a forward that explained my choice.

This thread is a really good read and I have learned from it. I would say, write the story first and then figure out where it fits. No one is paying you to write according to the expectations of a category.

 

[Misshotndeep]

While I am not a writer, I am very interested in following this conversation. I will be lurking in a corner.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

First times may not be "the hottest" for everyone, but a LOT of people fetishize novelty and I don't see anything "less than" about focusing on the early phases of a developing relationship in order to tap into that novelty.

Oh yeah, no, I didn't mean to imply that I think 'first time" stories, or especially "first time kink" stories are "less than", or that they're not worth writing. I have written several stories like that too, and one I've gotten a lot of approving comments on is exactly that. I just like the other kinds of stories, too, when they dynamic is established and you can illustrate the trust that's built up. My highest rated story is more along those lines.

My only disagreement with Simon is the broader brush "it's generally true" that first time "is better". I think, like almost everything to do with sex, there's more than enough variety in reader appetite for authors to explore every aspect.

 

[KyraSaden]

Oh yeah, no, I didn't mean to imply that I think 'first time" stories, or especially "first time kink" stories are "less than", or that they're not worth writing. I have written several stories like that too, and one I've gotten a lot of approving comments on is exactly that. I just like the other kinds of stories, too, when they dynamic is established and you can illustrate the trust that's built up. My highest rated story is more along those lines.

My only disagreement with Simon is the broader brush "it's generally true" that first time "is better". I think, like almost everything to do with sex, there's more than enough variety in reader appetite for authors to explore every aspect.

Ah, okay! Gotcha!

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>
Dude, even in the BDSM community, people struggle to understand the Top/bottom v.s. D/s distinction. I commend you for daring to tackle it on an erotica website. Godspeed.

Ah yes, this is why I have a story in Fetish and not BDSM. My lead female character is an older woman and I flirted with the D/S or Top/Bottom dynamic. She's in charge and her boyfriend is fine with it. But (per my earlier posting) I didn't want to Get Into All That so I whittled it to the fact that halfway through she reveals her make or break point. She wants to peg him. Offers that he can leave, it'll all be amicable, etc etc etc, but if he does he's not coming back.

He doesn't leave. She doesn't so much use it as control though as it's stress relief for her, I skirted away from it beyond it's a sexual kink they enjoy. Not so much a power dynamic. But I admit I avoided going more into a D/S space. It's had a long-standing 'H' so I couldn't have done too poorly. But Yvonne and Costa are also continually screaming at me to finish their sequel

<snip>
This thread is a really good read and I have learned from it. I would say, write the story first and then figure out where it fits. No one is paying you to write according to the expectations of a category.

This is me. I know up front a story will tend toward one or a couple or three Categories but it's not until the characters talk to me the emphasis will push it one way or another. Of course, it's a conversation between me and them that pushes it (Asha was very pushy, she insisted her story go nowhere near my original outline and she insisted her more, oh, sociopathic tendencies I'd envisioned became her mother's.) But rarely do my stories not hit up against a few Category guardrails.

And indeed, if someone wants to dangle $$$s in front of me, let's talk. But until then (and no, it's not like I'm expecting that to happen) my characters and my misfiring neurons will be decisive.