Do your subs ever use innocent bystanders against you?

[HottieMama]

Still, I sort of look at it as something akin to how one disciplines a child in public. I don't mean any offense to anyone, but I've always thought people who shout at or hit unruly kids in public were kind of crass and trashy and just wanted to show everyone else around them how "tough" they were. I don't think that kind of "discipline" is effective, honestly. Yes, I know kids (and apparently subs) do try to see what they can get away with in front of other people, but I've never seen a quietly uttered warning not work on someone who'd already been trained at home not to act like an asshole. It's a healthy fear--for lack of a better word--of what will happen once they're home that keeps them from come continuing to push. And if they're not "afraid" of what'll happen once they're home, then what the hell are you doing taking them out in public before you've taught them how to behave in the first place?

Totally agree. People that hit and scream at their children in public piss me off to no end, and i have been known to be "Captain Hero" in those situations.

i also agree with Cat and lsr, who said that this "type" of behavior doesn't need to occur in the public eye. Let's forget about Kids for a second. Why do i need to see that? Just like i don't want to watch you fuck in the mall, i would prefer not to watch you fight either.

 

[Marquis]

This is a really interesting and helpful discussion guys.

I'm trying to take what I can from this discussion and be productive. My instincts are to get emotional in a way that is counter-productive.

C and I still have a lot of latent issues and anger towards each other, a tremendous amount in fact.

The kind of mutual trust and respect that allows for really positive D/s isn't always there. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It fades in and out, really.

I am doing things to change that.

I believe that when I have played my part, she will do the same.

There was a time, recently, where I would've said that C's gradual exit from my life was inevitable.

But there are moments where I catch a glimpse of C's capacity to love me and I know it's something I never want to live without.

 

[BiBunny]

This is a really interesting and helpful discussion guys.

I'm trying to take what I can from this discussion and be productive. My instincts are to get emotional in a way that is counter-productive.

C and I still have a lot of latent issues and anger towards each other, a tremendous amount in fact.

The kind of mutual trust and respect that allows for really positive D/s isn't always there. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It fades in and out, really.

I am doing things to change that.

I believe that when I have played my part, she will do the same.

There was a time, recently, where I would've said that C's gradual exit from my life was inevitable.

But there are moments where I catch a glimpse of C's capacity to love me and I know it's something I never want to live without.

I hate the fact that I have suddenly become so sappy in old age that this post made me tear up. Best of luck to all three of you, M.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

This is a really interesting and helpful discussion guys.

I'm trying to take what I can from this discussion and be productive. My instincts are to get emotional in a way that is counter-productive.

C and I still have a lot of latent issues and anger towards each other, a tremendous amount in fact.

The kind of mutual trust and respect that allows for really positive D/s isn't always there. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It fades in and out, really.

I am doing things to change that.

I believe that when I have played my part, she will do the same.

There was a time, recently, where I would've said that C's gradual exit from my life was inevitable.

But there are moments where I catch a glimpse of C's capacity to love me and I know it's something I never want to live without.

Marquis, i truly wish you all the best and i hope you can work through all of the issues that are tending to "hinder" the healthiness of your relationship with "C" and what i want to say is sometimes the relationship itself should take precedence over the D/s ASPECT OF said relationship. maybe it's time to step back just a little for the D/s aspect and work on the anger and resentment that is obviously the cause of the issues in the D/s part of the relationship. once you work those out, then everything else should fall back into place.

D/s or not we're all still human. and if there are anger and resentment and you have a strained relationship then in our lifestyle it's going to make issues in the D/s aspect of it all.

i know you and i have never been close, i don't even really know you except the threads you make around here to get everyone's blood boiling and heads spinning sometimes but i do truly wish you the best and i do hope my words have made sense to you and maybe even helped you in some way.

 

[graceanne]

This is a really interesting and helpful discussion guys.

I'm trying to take what I can from this discussion and be productive. My instincts are to get emotional in a way that is counter-productive.

C and I still have a lot of latent issues and anger towards each other, a tremendous amount in fact.

The kind of mutual trust and respect that allows for really positive D/s isn't always there. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It fades in and out, really.

I am doing things to change that.

I believe that when I have played my part, she will do the same.

There was a time, recently, where I would've said that C's gradual exit from my life was inevitable.

But there are moments where I catch a glimpse of C's capacity to love me and I know it's something I never want to live without.

Cool. I wish you two the best.

 

[callinectes]

Marquis, just when I think you are truly an insufferable bastard you go and say something human and touching. Best of luck to the three of you, I wish you the very best.

 

[shysilverwing]

Interesting

If that ever happened to me I would probably end up laughing historically at the absurdity of the situation, at that point the Captain underpants (or whatever we've called him) would probably think I'm crazy and leave. If that doesn't work, or I'm currently unable to talk (referring to Velvet's post, or to shock) then I would just try to let the Dom settle it, then if I can talk again I would try to reason with Captain Hero. The problem is I'm a very quiet person, I don't raise my voice (mostly because my voice is too weak) so I would try to butt in, but I don't know how/what I could say to tell the captain that I consent.
This is a very interesting thread to me, and a very interesting scene/situation to bring up.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Marquis,

If I may offer a word for you here, it comes back to communication. If you want to fight for her and your relationship, the best thing to do is to talk to her not as a Dom but as a significant other to get to the root of what is going on.

Its easy to respond to pain with anger, but in my opinion, it sounds like tenderness and love is the best perscription.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You're absolutely right that you have to take more responsibility here. If your girls are doing that kind of thing with you, it's because of YOU. Nobody pulls that kind of stunt for a laugh.

As you've noted, your excuses are inappropriate. Yes, you're 25, but you wanted to be in this situation. Yes, you're only one person, but you wanted to have two submissives. Yes, you have problems of your own (everyone does) but if your problems come in front of treating your property well, you don't get to own them.

I'm not saying they are bad excuses...everybody goes through those thought processes. But the trick is knowing how much you can handle, and only taking what you can handle, because trying to live beyond your means isn't fair to anybody, and only makes everybody miserable. If you want two subs, act like you can handle two subs, and you shall have them. If you act like you can't handle both, you will lose at least one of them.

I think your response demonstrates maturity. Now go show that maturity to others.

I think this is a very good post.

So many awesome D/s couples of generations past were/are forced to live in such secrecy because of the societal disconnect. I believe that bridging that gap so that men like myself can live flourishing and full public lives while simultaneously being true to our relationship values is one of my main missions in life.

I understand how you feel here but I have to say that I really think this is a pipe dream when you weigh up the ratio of SSC BDSM lifestylers to abusive fucktards. I would love to be able to identify as a slave in the same way that people identify as gay or whatever. I would love for it to be an acceptable lifestyle choice. I also know that the day my Master can strike me in public without anyone batting an eyelid will be a sad day for humanity.

I admire the way you feel about your lifestyle but I think that any attempt to educate the masses is going to backfire on you.

 

[SirQittus]

I'm fairly new to all of this, but using hypnosis with my sub has given me a few tools that makes this issue even less likely to come up. If the "evil eye" didn't work for whatever reason, a trigger that makes my marilyn unable to open her mouth very likely would. If she's doing something that I wanted her to stop doing (and punish her for doing) right now, a freeze trigger would work well. She wants to air something in public, she can be in public and have people wonder why she is standing there motionless for a few minutes while I continue to shop.

And if she's going to block the triggers by (effectively) safewording, the shopping is over, the market employees can deal with the cart, and we're going out to the car immediately to have some clear non-public discussion of what is wrong.

 

[Marquis]

Marquis,

If I may offer a word for you here, it comes back to communication. If you want to fight for her and your relationship, the best thing to do is to talk to her not as a Dom but as a significant other to get to the root of what is going on.

Its easy to respond to pain with anger, but in my opinion, it sounds like tenderness and love is the best perscription.

I think what you're saying is true MasterPhoenix.

The truth is, what she and I desperately need, and have desperately needed for some time now, is more alone time with just her and I.

It's been very difficult to have that since lo moved in with me. I don't think there's any one of us that doesn't desire more alone time for C and I, but the situation is often made difficult by our actions.

To put it bluntly, C demands quality time with me in a way that makes me want to, consistently, tell her to fuck off. Meanwhile, lo tends to panic a bit when the firm hand of Daddy is not immediately available.

And me?

I'm kind of a pussy. Little girls turn on the waterworks and I fold.

Getting better on all fronts though.

Right now, we're working on implementing a new strategy that I think could be really helpful.

Part of this strategy is:

Girls talk to girls about girl stuff.

AND

Boys talk to boys about boy stuff.


When little girls need to vent about their problems, they will vent with the sensitive ears and understanding caress of other girls. Not Daddy, who will only hear what's being said as a problem that needs to be solved, when really all little girls need is to vent.

When Daddy has had a day at work that makes him feel homicidal, he will talk to his male friends, who will be able to help him make his plan to get even instead of getting mad. Little girls think the only problem is that Daddy is upset and they have to make him happy Daddy again. Blowjobs and breakfast in bed are very nice, but they do not put food on the table. Sometimes Daddy needs to be mad, very mad, because the world makes him mad and it is his job to fight the world, on behalf of his little girls and himself.

 

[Marquis]

I understand how you feel here but I have to say that I really think this is a pipe dream when you weigh up the ratio of SSC BDSM lifestylers to abusive fucktards. I would love to be able to identify as a slave in the same way that people identify as gay or whatever. I would love for it to be an acceptable lifestyle choice. I also know that the day my Master can strike me in public without anyone batting an eyelid will be a sad day for humanity.

I admire the way you feel about your lifestyle but I think that any attempt to educate the masses is going to backfire on you.

I'm sure it will backfire on me, but being true to your principles is only meaningful when it's inconvenient.

You seem to appreciate what I want to do. For that much I thank you.

 

[Marquis]

By the way, I want to point out that a bit of hyperbole was used in the OP.

I didn't raise my hand to her, I think I just said something along the lines of "would you shut up please" or something like that.


I bring this up because while I don't think it really changes anything too much, it might create a more accurate picture of what happened.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think it really doesn't change anything.

 

[intothewoods]

By the way, I want to point out that a bit of hyperbole was used in the OP.

I didn't raise my hand to her, I think I just said something along the lines of "would you shut up please"

or something like that.

Kind of a major point, Marquis. If that's all you said, I don't know why anyone would step in. Sure, you were being rude - maybe you were being a huge asshole, but it doesn't seem to require anyone's intervention.

As for discussing some issues with partners, and some with friends, I wholeheartedly agree. No one person or even two people can be entirely responsible for you. Some friends are good for listening, and some are good for plotting action. I'm the gal you turn to when you need a good plan. I'm not the best sympathetic ear for plain old venting.

 

[rida]

I think what you're saying is true MasterPhoenix.

The truth is, what she and I desperately need, and have desperately needed for some time now, is more alone time with just her and I.

It's been very difficult to have that since lo moved in with me. I don't think there's any one of us that doesn't desire more alone time for C and I, but the situation is often made difficult by our actions.

To put it bluntly, C demands quality time with me in a way that makes me want to, consistently, tell her to fuck off. Meanwhile, lo tends to panic a bit when the firm hand of Daddy is not immediately available.

And me?

I'm kind of a pussy. Little girls turn on the waterworks and I fold.

Getting better on all fronts though.

Right now, we're working on implementing a new strategy that I think could be really helpful.

Part of this strategy is:

Girls talk to girls about girl stuff.

AND

Boys talk to boys about boy stuff.


When little girls need to vent about their problems, they will vent with the sensitive ears and understanding caress of other girls. Not Daddy, who will only hear what's being said as a problem that needs to be solved, when really all little girls need is to vent.

When Daddy has had a day at work that makes him feel homicidal, he will talk to his male friends, who will be able to help him make his plan to get even instead of getting mad. Little girls think the only problem is that Daddy is upset and they have to make him happy Daddy again. Blowjobs and breakfast in bed are very nice, but they do not put food on the table. Sometimes Daddy needs to be mad, very mad, because the world makes him mad and it is his job to fight the world, on behalf of his little girls and himself.

I think that this is a very important thing to realize:

The need to keep yourself from being manipulated, albeit not in an intentional way, by your little girls tears,
and the fact that sometime you as a Dominant do not need to fix anything, but just let your little girls vent and support each other.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

By the way, I want to point out that a bit of hyperbole was used in the OP.

I didn't raise my hand to her, I think I just said something along the lines of "would you shut up please" or something like that.


I bring this up because while I don't think it really changes anything too much, it might create a more accurate picture of what happened.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think it really doesn't change anything.

I think it does. People tell each other to 'shut up' all the time. I'm surprised that just a little verbal prompted a bystander to get involved.

It would take quite a lot for most people to square up to a fit and aggressive looking young man purely for altruistic reasons IMO. Maybe it was just asshole day at the store?

I can see how this would tie in with your girls having to compete a little for attention at times, simply because they can't split you in half when they don't feel like sharing. I must admit that if I am feeling neglected or unappreciated I'm inclined to get a little bratty and petulant with Master. It's not always even a conscious thing, I just catch myself doing it.

 

[Marquis]

Kind of a major point, Marquis. If that's all you said, I don't know why anyone would step in. Sure, you were being rude - maybe you were being a huge asshole, but it doesn't seem to require anyone's intervention.

As for discussing some issues with partners, and some with friends, I wholeheartedly agree. No one person or even two people can be entirely responsible for you. Some friends are good for listening, and some are good for plotting action. I'm the gal you turn to when you need a good plan. I'm not the best sympathetic ear for plain old venting.

I think it does. People tell each other to 'shut up' all the time. I'm surprised that just a little verbal prompted a bystander to get involved.

It would take quite a lot for most people to square up to a fit and aggressive looking young man purely for altruistic reasons IMO. Maybe it was just asshole day at the store?

I can see how this would tie in with your girls having to compete a little for attention at times, simply because they can't split you in half when they don't feel like sharing. I must admit that if I am feeling neglected or unappreciated I'm inclined to get a little bratty and petulant with Master. It's not always even a conscious thing, I just catch myself doing it.

You two are reminding me very much of my own slaves right now.



The truth is, the details really don't matter, to me, but in case you're interested I will tell you exactly what happened.

We were in Home Depot getting some chain cut for the scene madetotakeit started a thread about. I was talking to the attendant when C butted in and I asked her to shut up. The attendant rose to her defense, but saw quickly that things were not entirely as they appeared.

All in all, I think I got the answer I started this thread for. I would love to engage in any further discussion of the fundamental dynamics, the kind of lessons I can move forward with and use in the future, but if I felt that the details were important, I wouldn't have presented them in a humorous way in the first place.

 

[Marquis]

I think that this is a very important thing to realize:

The need to keep yourself from being manipulated, albeit not in an intentional way, by your little girls tears,
and the fact that sometime you as a Dominant do not need to fix anything, but just let your little girls vent and support each other.

Thanks rida.

I don't know enough about you to know where this insight comes from, but I think you are exactly correct.

 

[intothewoods]

You two are reminding me very much of my own slaves right now.



The truth is, the details really don't matter, to me, but in case you're interested I will tell you exactly what happened.

We were in Home Depot getting some chain cut for the scene madetotakeit started a thread about. I was talking to the attendant when C butted in and I asked her to shut up. The attendant rose to her defense, but saw quickly that things were not entirely as they appeared.

All in all, I think I got the answer I started this thread for. I would love to engage in any further discussion of the fundamental dynamics, the kind of lessons I can move forward with and use in the future, but if I felt that the details were important, I wouldn't have presented them in a humorous way in the first place.

Most of the time, Marquis, I think you're swell. I think the relationship you have with the girls seems loving and real, and besides, you have that cute nickname for JMohegan. So, all good things.

To be totally blunt though, some of your past posts just make the interactions with your women seem very extreme, to me anyway. So when I read the first post, I wasn't sure if you'd raised a backhand to her or not, even in a semi-serious way. I'm glad you clarified because I thought, geez, like I want to see that shit when I go to, well, Home Depot! Now, I lose my temper too, and at 25, I'm sure as hell I threw something or other at a boyfriend before. I get the big temper, losing your cool thing. It happens. You're human. What I found obnoxious was the, yeah, I beat her ass, what of it, everyone else can fuck off, attitude that is implied with the expressed entitlement to raise a hand to your woman in public. That's where I was coming from, so I'm really glad you clarified. Danke.

 

[HottieMama]

When little girls need to vent about their problems, they will vent with the sensitive ears and understanding caress of other girls. Not Daddy, who will only hear what's being said as a problem that needs to be solved, when really all little girls need is to vent.

When Daddy has had a day at work that makes him feel homicidal, he will talk to his male friends, who will be able to help him make his plan to get even instead of getting mad. Little girls think the only problem is that Daddy is upset and they have to make him happy Daddy again. Blowjobs and breakfast in bed are very nice, but they do not put food on the table. Sometimes Daddy needs to be mad, very mad, because the world makes him mad and it is his job to fight the world, on behalf of his little girls and himself.

i have found this to be true in ANY relationship, not just D/s. It is a wonderful understanding to come to on the "needs" of women vs. the "needs" of men from an emotional standpoint.

And dear god..it's going to snow tonight... We just agreed on something.

 

[thedarkplaying]

I'm talking about some human shield type shit.

You tell her to shut her fucking mouth and raise the backhand, meanwhile captain-save-a-ho comes along and demands you show the lady "a little respect."

Not having any relationship with the captain, you look upon your property puzzled, thinking... "but we have a special relationship!"

She says nothing, and feigns ignorance to the fact that you beat that ass on the regular.

Now the captain feels vindicated in his right to intervene, and is spouting the merits of chivalry while eyeballing your bitches moneybits.

What do you do here?

Take out the captain?

How many innocent bystanders must suffer?

Not to be flip with response, but...

How do I deal with it? I don't put Myself or my companion into that situation in the first place. Yes, we might have, as you say "a special" relationship. We both understand the rules and the meanings. However, that doesn't mean I, as the Top/Dom/Master in the case expect the greater world to understand our relationship of dynamic. So in public, where misunderstandings a you described could arise, I make sure my power over mine is more understated and far less caviler that would bring attention to us.

If for some reason I did something too or with mine that did get the attention of a "captain" I'm both strong enough of a Top/Dom/Master and an indivudual to deal with it in a far less extreme situation. I'd not expect mine to offer any explaination to the "captain", for it is not their place, though i would expect mine to play her role as mine and as someone possibly being hit on (or saved) and kindly disregard the "captain". I would calmly explain to the "captain" his services were not needed and if he pressed further I would explain to him what BDSM at a high level and mine and Myself are thus engaged in such activity. If that didn't work I'd simply take mines hand and leave the situation gracefully.

No tough guy BS.

To your other point. mine would be instructed and trained as to their role early on in our "special" relationship and would know their place. mine would be taught that they can trust me not to put them in a situation beyond my control, be it private or public, and that mine can depend on me when they have already handed over wiling control of themselves to me as their Top/Dom/Master. mine will obey me a they have been trained too as I wish.

If I need to "raise a hand to her" in public, and often private, for discipline of this sort then I've failed mine as their Top/Dom/Master and should not therefore call myself a Top/Dom/Master.

If a Top/Dom/Master's only means of control is "putting the fear of the hand in the bitch" via their physical strength...IMO that Top/Dom/Master has lost sight of what control means and/or doesn't understand it in the first place.

 

[bronzeage]

I'm talking about some human shield type shit.

You tell her to shut her fucking mouth and raise the backhand, meanwhile captain-save-a-ho comes along and demands you show the lady "a little respect."

Not having any relationship with the captain, you look upon your property puzzled, thinking... "but we have a special relationship!"

She says nothing, and feigns ignorance to the fact that you beat that ass on the regular.

Now the captain feels vindicated in his right to intervene, and is spouting the merits of chivalry while eyeballing your bitches moneybits.

What do you do here?

Take out the captain?

How many innocent bystanders must suffer?

Raise your back hand while you are in my reach and there won't be any demands made. I'll deal with you on the spot.

If you can't keep your sub in line to the point she needs violence in public you are the one who needs discipline.

Beating women is poor preparation for fighting men. Be careful how you talk to the Captain. You are only going to make it worse for yourself.

 

[Etoile]

The truth is, the details really don't matter, to me, but in case you're interested I will tell you exactly what happened.

We were in Home Depot getting some chain cut for the scene madetotakeit started a thread about. I was talking to the attendant when C butted in and I asked her to shut up. The attendant rose to her defense, but saw quickly that things were not entirely as they appeared.

All in all, I think I got the answer I started this thread for. I would love to engage in any further discussion of the fundamental dynamics, the kind of lessons I can move forward with and use in the future, but if I felt that the details were important, I wouldn't have presented them in a humorous way in the first place.

I didn't find the original post humorous, I thought it was just provoking good discussion.

I also don't find it a great betrayal that things actually happened very differently from what you portrayed in the original post. I just see it as a hypothetical situation that could occur at some time in the future. Just because you didn't raise your hand and she didn't cower behind the chain guy doesn't mean that couldn't EVER happen. My previous responses were based on that hypothetical situation, and the fact that it didn't actually happen don't change how I feel about that situation if it did happen.

I feel so self-referential now.

 

[Marquis]

I didn't find the original post humorous, I thought it was just provoking good discussion.

I also don't find it a great betrayal that things actually happened very differently from what you portrayed in the original post. I just see it as a hypothetical situation that could occur at some time in the future. Just because you didn't raise your hand and she didn't cower behind the chain guy doesn't mean that couldn't EVER happen. My previous responses were based on that hypothetical situation, and the fact that it didn't actually happen don't change how I feel about that situation if it did happen.

I feel so self-referential now.

Thanks Etoile, you're pretty smart.

For a sub.

 

[WriterDom]

Why would a cute guy like you slap a female in public? That's a one way ticket to jail. You might go in as a tight end and leave as a wide receiver.