Do your subs ever use innocent bystanders against you?

[rida]

Thanks rida.

I don't know enough about you to know where this insight comes from, but I think you are exactly correct.

You are welcome

As for where the insight comes from ... life, people, relationships ... the usual learning ground.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You two are reminding me very much of my own slaves right now.



The truth is, the details really don't matter, to me, but in case you're interested I will tell you exactly what happened.

We were in Home Depot getting some chain cut for the scene madetotakeit started a thread about. I was talking to the attendant when C butted in and I asked her to shut up. The attendant rose to her defense, but saw quickly that things were not entirely as they appeared.

All in all, I think I got the answer I started this thread for. I would love to engage in any further discussion of the fundamental dynamics, the kind of lessons I can move forward with and use in the future, but if I felt that the details were important, I wouldn't have presented them in a humorous way in the first place.

I suppose I should know you better by now. I was very surprised when it seemed like you had been violent. I didn't think it was your style and I'm glad that I was right.

I think women do need very different types of support from men and vice versa. Since Master moved south to live with me his circle of local friends has been very limited and sometimes when he needs guys to go off and plan world domination with, they just aren't there. I have had to learn to stop offering the kind of support and empathy that it remains instinctive in me to offer. To a degree, I've had to re-learn the friendship side of our relationship and be more like a buddy than a dewy eyed, sympathetic slave.

If he marches out the door because he needs space and a beer, I don't take it personally. If he cocoons himself in a computer game, I leave him to it. I have this urge to mother him at times that I've had to suppress because it just pisses him off.

If he does want to talk about existential angst, it's not usually a serious discussion. I've learned to be flippant about things and to chat more like a buddy. He's noticed the change and thinks it's amusing on a number of levels but at the same time, it works better for us and he appreciates this latest twist to my service. We're going out and socialising more but friends that you connect with take time and patience to acquire.

Women are supportive of each other, men mock each other and then hatch plots for retribution on the rest of the planet. If a girl falls on her ass she gets love and sympathy from her friends. Guys get laughed at and told to stop being a pussy and get up off the floor. He never envisaged owning a slave who could sit around drinking whiskey and cracking dirty jokes but it does help sometimes and hey, I'm just that selfless.

I am always very respectful in public though. I would feel terrible if I made him out to be an abusive asshole when I know damn well he isn't. I also would hate to paint myself as some weak willed, cowering victim. With further consideration and chat with Master I know it wouldn't be my place to speak up before he did but if a situation required me to confirm that I was fine and not in need of rescue, I would do so gladly and proudly.

I do think that when these situations happen and people do imply or say outright that there is a power exchange dynamic involved, it can give BDSM as a whole a bad name. It can give people the mistaken impression that it's just haven for domineering fucktards. Just as Gracie said that she shouldn't have to discipline her kids in public and it reflects badly on her if she does, PYLs shouldn't find themselves in a situation where public admonishment is required. It just makes everybody look bad and does nothing to bring positive awareness to PE relationships IMO.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Velvet, i can understand where you are coming from and respect your feelings on this issue. but when you say things like "PYLs shouldn't find themselves in a situation where public admonishment is required," it sounds like if one's submissive or slave isn't absolutely unfailingly perfect then the Dominant should have something to be ashamed of and the relationship in general is somehow unstable. of course that may not be quite the way you intended it, but as a slave who strives everyday or her life to be obedient, honorable, selfless, pleasing to her Master and who has still had to receive a firm word or hand in public a few times, such judgements can sting a bit.

as for the belief that some have that any hint of a power exchange relationship must be invisible in the vanilla word, i can't understand this. no, perhaps one doesn't shout from every street corner that they are Master and slave, but you can be true to yourselves and honest about the relationship dynamic without causing offense to most. i say most, because there will always be those who view anything less than an egalitarian relationship as vile and evil...and to those folks you say, "flock 'em."

my Master's family for example...save for his brother, none are aware that we are in a M/s relationship or even what such a thing would mean. they're conservative, religious folk. however they all know that my Master is the lone authority figure in this household, and that he controls every significant aspect of my life. they see this as him being old-fashioned, and it doesn't raise any eyebrows. now out in public amongst strangers, again it's clear that he is The Boss. i walk behind him, don't make eye contact with anyone, don't speak unless spoken to (and even then will look to him first for approval), ask his permission for everything, pay for nothing, etc. He also naturally speaks "down" to me, a bit like a Father speaks to his young child, or an orthodox jewish or islamic man may speak to his wife. and yes, when he feels it's necessary, he will raise his voice to me, speak to me sharply, grab me, and if necessary yank me around a corner and knock the spit outta me. and so what? none of this portrays D/s in a bad light or requires putting up a vanilla facade.

 

[intothewoods]

Velvet, i can understand where you are coming from and respect your feelings on this issue. but when you say things like "PYLs shouldn't find themselves in a situation where public admonishment is required," it sounds like if one's submissive or slave isn't absolutely unfailingly perfect then the Dominant should have something to be ashamed of and the relationship in general is somehow unstable. of course that may not be quite the way you intended it, but as a slave who strives everyday or her life to be obedient, honorable, selfless, pleasing to her Master and who has still had to receive a firm word or hand in public a few times, such judgements can sting a bit.

as for the belief that some have that any hint of a power exchange relationship must be invisible in the vanilla word, i can't understand this. no, perhaps one doesn't shout from every street corner that they are Master and slave, but you can be true to yourselves and honest about the relationship dynamic without causing offense to most. i say most, because there will always be those who view anything less than an egalitarian relationship as vile and evil...and to those folks you say, "flock 'em."

my Master's family for example...save for his brother, none are aware that we are in a M/s relationship or even what such a thing would mean. they're conservative, religious folk. however they all know that my Master is the lone authority figure in this household, and that he controls every significant aspect of my life. they see this as him being old-fashioned, and it doesn't raise any eyebrows. now out in public amongst strangers, again it's clear that he is The Boss. i walk behind him, don't make eye contact with anyone, don't speak unless spoken to (and even then will look to him first for approval), ask his permission for everything, pay for nothing, etc. He also naturally speaks "down" to me, a bit like a Father speaks to his young child, or an orthodox jewish or islamic man may speak to his wife. and yes, when he feels it's necessary, he will raise his voice to me, speak to me sharply, grab me, and if necessary yank me around a corner and knock the spit outta me. and so what? none of this portrays D/s in a bad light or requires putting up a vanilla facade.

I think Velvet's point is that one doesn't need physical force to discipline another, not that the pyl is imperfect.

If anyone strikes another another person in my view, I can't merrily go about my business. I don't know that the person on the receiving end isn't in danger, and it's not safe to assume it's consensual. Unless it's some little thing, I'd probably call the police. And I really could care less what problems that causes. If you are not respectful enough to keep your private life private, you have to deal with the consequences.

 

[twysted73]

I would think the last thing you'd want to do is reward her by continuing it.
Smile, look at her sadly..almost pathetically, and walk off.

I'm talking about some human shield type shit.

You tell her to shut her fucking mouth and raise the backhand, meanwhile captain-save-a-ho comes along and demands you show the lady "a little respect."

Not having any relationship with the captain, you look upon your property puzzled, thinking... "but we have a special relationship!"

She says nothing, and feigns ignorance to the fact that you beat that ass on the regular.

Now the captain feels vindicated in his right to intervene, and is spouting the merits of chivalry while eyeballing your bitches moneybits.

What do you do here?

Take out the captain?

How many innocent bystanders must suffer?

 

[HottieMama]

If anyone strikes another another person in my view, I can't merrily go about my business. I don't know that the person on the receiving end isn't in danger, and it's not safe to assume it's consensual. Unless it's some little thing, I'd probably call the police. And I really could care less what problems that causes. If you are not respectful enough to keep your private life private, you have to deal with the consequences.

Amen! Given the amount of battered women in this country significantly outweighs the number of openly kinky (D/s) women in this country, even as a "kinky woman" i would err on the side of caution and assume she was being battered nonconsensually.

if necessary yank me around a corner and knock the spit outta me. and so what? none of this portrays D/s in a bad light

i COMPLETELY disagree. If witnessing something like that was my first introduction to D/s, i can guarantee you i wouldn't have continued to follow this path. IMO, it portrays the Dom as an arrogant, pompous, fuck who can't control himself in public. There is a time and a place for everything, and the middle of the mall/restaurant/or store just isn't the place IMO.

 

[TeachMeSir]

I would think the last thing you'd want to do is reward her by continuing it.
Smile, look at her sadly..almost pathetically, and walk off.

That would be the best/worst thing you could do!

Being walked away form after knowing that I have surrendered, knowing that he is not angry with me, and trusting that he will come back when I have had time to cry is wonderous.

Being walked away from in anger, abandoned, feeling the deep dissapointment would have me following him, wanting to beg for the hir brush so that I could be fogriven, but knowing that if I said one more work it would just upset him more.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Velvet, i can understand where you are coming from and respect your feelings on this issue. but when you say things like "PYLs shouldn't find themselves in a situation where public admonishment is required," it sounds like if one's submissive or slave isn't absolutely unfailingly perfect then the Dominant should have something to be ashamed of and the relationship in general is somehow unstable. of course that may not be quite the way you intended it, but as a slave who strives everyday or her life to be obedient, honorable, selfless, pleasing to her Master and who has still had to receive a firm word or hand in public a few times, such judgements can sting a bit.

as for the belief that some have that any hint of a power exchange relationship must be invisible in the vanilla word, i can't understand this. no, perhaps one doesn't shout from every street corner that they are Master and slave, but you can be true to yourselves and honest about the relationship dynamic without causing offense to most. i say most, because there will always be those who view anything less than an egalitarian relationship as vile and evil...and to those folks you say, "flock 'em."

my Master's family for example...save for his brother, none are aware that we are in a M/s relationship or even what such a thing would mean. they're conservative, religious folk. however they all know that my Master is the lone authority figure in this household, and that he controls every significant aspect of my life. they see this as him being old-fashioned, and it doesn't raise any eyebrows. now out in public amongst strangers, again it's clear that he is The Boss. i walk behind him, don't make eye contact with anyone, don't speak unless spoken to (and even then will look to him first for approval), ask his permission for everything, pay for nothing, etc. He also naturally speaks "down" to me, a bit like a Father speaks to his young child, or an orthodox jewish or islamic man may speak to his wife. and yes, when he feels it's necessary, he will raise his voice to me, speak to me sharply, grab me, and if necessary yank me around a corner and knock the spit outta me. and so what? none of this portrays D/s in a bad light or requires putting up a vanilla facade.

I respect your view OSG but if I'm honest I have to say that we disagree when it comes to what portrays D/s in a bad light. Master and I prefer our dynamic to be 'invisible' as you put it, when in public. We are in no way ashamed of our lifestyle but just as we have no desire to watch vanilla couples fuck or fight, we pay them the same courtesy and leave discipline and harsh words for the privacy of our home or relative privacy away from public view. For us it's about common decency, consideration and consent (of innocent bystanders).

I am not saying that our choices are right and yours are wrong. You and your Master are entitled to conduct your relationship as you see fit. I'm just explaining the reasoning behind the choices Master has made for us, that I agree with.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think Velvet's point is that one doesn't need physical force to discipline another, not that the pyl is imperfect.

Thankyou. That is indeed what I meant.

If anyone strikes another another person in my view, I can't merrily go about my business. I don't know that the person on the receiving end isn't in danger, and it's not safe to assume it's consensual. Unless it's some little thing, I'd probably call the police. And I really could care less what problems that causes. If you are not respectful enough to keep your private life private, you have to deal with the consequences.

I completely agree. I would have to intervene. My best friend was abused by her ex for a long time and I simply couldn't stand by and watch what I believed to be abuse. I would hate to put another person in that position for no good reason and so would Master.

 

[YourCaptor]

In all seriousness, I think I would still stick to what I said first.

I wouldn’t consider it the subs/slaves role to clear up such public issues, I would simply address the guy, tell him that I do respect her, more then just about anyone else. If he keeps making a show, well then you got yourself an argument.

Also, I often play captain save a ho myself, because around here if a guy hits a girl 99.99% of the time its abuse. You got to watch out for people you know, if theirs a misunderstanding clear it up. No biggie

 

[ownedsubgal]

intothewoods, Velvet, i think perhaps i haven't been expressing myself clearly. as i've stated repeatedly, i think we all agree on one thing, and that is in showing common courtesy and conducting oneself respectfully in public. personally i don't believe a couple no matter what their dynamic...vanilla, Master/slave, whatever...should subject others to their personal conflicts. however, there are ways to handle such things in public while still being relatively discreet and unintrusive to others. as i said in my example, my Master may yank me around a corner to smack me, he is not going to do something like that in plain view and earshot of anyone else.

and of course discipline need not be physical. but there are times when physical discipline is the most appropriate and effective in a particular situation.

 

[catalina_francisco]

While it seems some think it is OK to administer public discipline as long as it is discreet and without anyone knowing, I would think that is more a perception than reality. Because those involved do not know (or think) someone else has seen what they have done, does not magically make it so. I have witnessed things others have done in public thinking no-one would notice, myself...it happens all the time from the lady picking her nose in his car in the morning traffic jam to the PYL who feels immediate physical action is needed to preserve the power dynamic.

People are observant when you least want/expect them to be, and in today's world there are thousands of discreetly and not so discreetly placed cameras performing surveillance on everything we do from the moment we step out our front door to the moment we step back through it, which ensure privacy, no matter how careful and clever we might think we are, is no longer a reality or respected right.

Catalina

 

[VelvetDarkness]

intothewoods, Velvet, i think perhaps i haven't been expressing myself clearly. as i've stated repeatedly, i think we all agree on one thing, and that is in showing common courtesy and conducting oneself respectfully in public. personally i don't believe a couple no matter what their dynamic...vanilla, Master/slave, whatever...should subject others to their personal conflicts. however, there are ways to handle such things in public while still being relatively discreet and unintrusive to others. as i said in my example, my Master may yank me around a corner to smack me, he is not going to do something like that in plain view and earshot of anyone else.

and of course discipline need not be physical. but there are times when physical discipline is the most appropriate and effective in a particular situation.

There are ways to be relatively discreet but I suppose my viewpoint is that it's always relative. When your Master punched you in the lunch queue you said that nobody noticed. My point is that nobody appeared to notice, you can never be sure. Master and I just don't want to take that risk, so we don't.

Your Master may have a perfect right to drag you into an alley and beat you but when people do notice this behaviour, they assume it is non-consensual because 99% of the time, it is. It's fine for you not to have a problem with it but there is always the possibility that a young kid is going to walk past that alley and witness you getting slapped. If you both consider it worth the risk of potentially being spotted by the impressionable and easily offended, then that's your choice.

I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted you, it's not intentional. I don't think we're going to form an easy truce on this one so it may be time we agreed to differ.

 

[Homburg]

Right, another Captain Save-a-ho here. I have intervened. I have asked uncomfortable questions. I have invited that person to go outside. I have taken the aggressor outside bodily (working security at nightclubs means this sort of thing pops up, and that you actually have a legal duty to do so). And, one time, I put the aggressor face-first into the ground until he calmed down and the police arrived. So my view is likely biased.

Personally, I don't get obvious with our dynamic unless it is in a dedicated scene-friendly environment. I'm in charge, sure, and there's never a doubt in my mind or anyone else's, but I am not going to treat my property with disrespect generally. It has nothing to do with how she feels, or how the public perceives me, and everything to do with how others will treat her. I'll not have anyone else disrespect my gal simply because they saw me do so and think it is acceptable as a result.

I'm not going to gainsay anyone else for doing so, as it is your business how you run your life. Just not my thing. No one else needs to know anything about how we conduct our affairs. Generally speaking, a simple "That's enough" said with the proper tone is sufficient to quell most issues. If that doesn't work, I will walk, and she will earn the consequence of my displeasure when I consider the timing proper to mete those consequences out.

And, honestly, I have some conceptual issues with the idea that preserving the power dynamic requires immediate action. If a dynamic is so fragile as to need instant physical correction around a nonconsenting public, well, it doesn't sound like the dynamic is all that solid. I would prefer to take the long view.

(NOTE: Not passing any comment on your dynamic, Marquis. I am referring to catalina's post that included "PYL who feels immediate physical action is needed to preserve the power dynamic".)

 

[Etoile]

Velvet, i can understand where you are coming from and respect your feelings on this issue. but when you say things like "PYLs shouldn't find themselves in a situation where public admonishment is required," it sounds like if one's submissive or slave isn't absolutely unfailingly perfect then the Dominant should have something to be ashamed of and the relationship in general is somehow unstable. of course that may not be quite the way you intended it, but as a slave who strives everyday or her life to be obedient, honorable, selfless, pleasing to her Master and who has still had to receive a firm word or hand in public a few times, such judgements can sting a bit.

just to clarify, when I referred to unstable or unhealthy relationships, I wasn't talking about a slave not being properly trained or making occasional mistakes. I was talking about the original example, where the slave cowers behind the captain because of genuine fear (even temporary) and a desire to be saved. If the slave feels a need to be "saved" from the master, something is wrong there. But just doing something wrong that results in public discipline, that's not unhealthy. It's the desire to be saved - or to mindfuck the master - that signifies something is wrong.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Velvet, i can understand where you are coming from and respect your feelings on this issue. but when you say things like "PYLs shouldn't find themselves in a situation where public admonishment is required," it sounds like if one's submissive or slave isn't absolutely unfailingly perfect then the Dominant should have something to be ashamed of and the relationship in general is somehow unstable. of course that may not be quite the way you intended it, but as a slave who strives everyday or her life to be obedient, honorable, selfless, pleasing to her Master and who has still had to receive a firm word or hand in public a few times, such judgements can sting a bit.

as for the belief that some have that any hint of a power exchange relationship must be invisible in the vanilla word, i can't understand this. no, perhaps one doesn't shout from every street corner that they are Master and slave, but you can be true to yourselves and honest about the relationship dynamic without causing offense to most. i say most, because there will always be those who view anything less than an egalitarian relationship as vile and evil...and to those folks you say, "flock 'em."

my Master's family for example...save for his brother, none are aware that we are in a M/s relationship or even what such a thing would mean. they're conservative, religious folk. however they all know that my Master is the lone authority figure in this household, and that he controls every significant aspect of my life. they see this as him being old-fashioned, and it doesn't raise any eyebrows. now out in public amongst strangers, again it's clear that he is The Boss. i walk behind him, don't make eye contact with anyone, don't speak unless spoken to (and even then will look to him first for approval), ask his permission for everything, pay for nothing, etc. He also naturally speaks "down" to me, a bit like a Father speaks to his young child, or an orthodox jewish or islamic man may speak to his wife. and yes, when he feels it's necessary, he will raise his voice to me, speak to me sharply, grab me, and if necessary yank me around a corner and knock the spit outta me. and so what? none of this portrays D/s in a bad light or requires putting up a vanilla facade.

i tend to disagree with this. society will look down on it regardless of the fact that it's consensual. BDSM is not acceptable in the mainstream and it should not be brought into the public eye if you do not want or are not ready to deal with being judged by those actions. i'm in the lifestyle and i can tell you now that if i saw a man raise his hand to his woman i would say something and i would even more so expect my Dom to do so.

my point is when you put it out in the publics eye, they have every right to say something about what they are being subjected to. and it will portray D/s in a bad light because that's already what vanilla folk think this lifestyle is: abuse. i'm not saying it IS abuse i'm saying if someone in the vanilla world sees a Man raising his hand to his woman they will automatically assume she is being abused, and when you bring up the words oh we're in a BDSM relationship do you really things that's going to justify it all? uh no, because the mainstream does not understand our relationship.

all i'm saying is that i think it should never come to that point in public. if Master and i are out, and i've done something to tick him off, he's not going to pull me around the corner and beat me, he's going to give me "the look" i'm going to know i'm in big trouble and then it will be dealt with when we get home. it saves him from looking like a complete ass in the publics eyes and it prevents having to deal with "captain Hero" and if necessary gives him a moment to chill out.

i don't like being brought into a vanilla couples relationship, so why would i bring them into mine?

 

[ownedsubgal]

just to clarify, when I referred to unstable or unhealthy relationships, I wasn't talking about a slave not being properly trained or making occasional mistakes. I was talking about the original example, where the slave cowers behind the captain because of genuine fear (even temporary) and a desire to be saved. If the slave feels a need to be "saved" from the master, something is wrong there. But just doing something wrong that results in public discipline, that's not unhealthy. It's the desire to be saved - or to mindfuck the master - that signifies something is wrong.

oh Etoile i agree with that point completely. that was the scenario that prompted Daddy to respond with "cut her loose," because if your sub/slave is looking to someone else for protection from you, or being manipulative and playing that role for drama/attention/whatever, you are right, something is VERY wrong with that relationship.

i was referring more to those who were implying that if a sub/slave ever needed to be disciplined in public then the Dominant had somehow failed and the relationship must be troubled.

 

[Etoile]

oh Etoile i agree with that point completely. that was the scenario that prompted Daddy to respond with "cut her loose," because if your sub/slave is looking to someone else for protection from you, or being manipulative and playing that role for drama/attention/whatever, you are right, something is VERY wrong with that relationship.

i was referring more to those who were implying that if a sub/slave ever needed to be disciplined in public then the Dominant had somehow failed and the relationship must be troubled.

Great, we are on the same page then!

 

[Netzach]

Having worked fairly uninspiring retail I have to say that person A being a dickweed to their spouse person B whoever in a three-way interaction with me, whether it's your negotiated dyanmic or not, is just kind of - ick.

At nine dollars an hour I'm not paid to consider your shit from every angle. I think the impulse of the clerk need not be slammed.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

oh Etoile i agree with that point completely. that was the scenario that prompted Daddy to respond with "cut her loose," because if your sub/slave is looking to someone else for protection from you, or being manipulative and playing that role for drama/attention/whatever, you are right, something is VERY wrong with that relationship.

i was referring more to those who were implying that if a sub/slave ever needed to be disciplined in public then the Dominant had somehow failed and the relationship must be troubled.

i don't think anyone was saying that. i think what the majority are saying is that it does not need to be handled in public, period.

 

[twysted73]

That would be the best/worst thing you could do!

Being walked away form after knowing that I have surrendered, knowing that he is not angry with me, and trusting that he will come back when I have had time to cry is wonderous.

Being walked away from in anger, abandoned, feeling the deep dissapointment would have me following him, wanting to beg for the hir brush so that I could be fogriven, but knowing that if I said one more work it would just upset him more.

Aren't you a darling.
C'mere.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

i was referring more to those who were implying that if a sub/slave ever needed to be disciplined in public then the Dominant had somehow failed and the relationship must be troubled.

Homburg put it more clearly. I don't think that slaves must be perfect at all times but that if it is felt an issue must be dealt with in public and can't wait until a couple is back home, that could indicate problems with the dynamic.

I slip up in public as frequently as everyone else but a simple verbal warning or death stare is enough to check me. If it wasn't and I continued to act up, I imagine he would walk away (though thankfully I haven't had to find out yet). If Master feels a serious enough transgression has occurred to warrant discussion and discipline, he'll do that at home. If he felt that the dynamic would be destabilised if he didn't throw me down the nearest alley and thump me, I think we would both consider it a deeper issue.

I am not suggesting for one minute that your Master and you have any issues with your dynamic, just that my Master has never deemed it 'necessary' to punish me physically without delay.

It really isn't my intention to criticise or judge you, I'm just explaining why our views and coping strategies differ.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Having worked fairly uninspiring retail I have to say that person A being a dickweed to their spouse person B whoever in a three-way interaction with me, whether it's your negotiated dyanmic or not, is just kind of - ick.

At nine dollars an hour I'm not paid to consider your shit from every angle. I think the impulse of the clerk need not be slammed.

I think that's a valid point. I've worked in retail and also as a barmaid in the past and when couples have argued around me (whether hetero or not) I have generally asked politely for a little calm and courtesy. If that doesn't work I ask that people take it outside and away from an environment that other customers expect to be under my control. Bystanders expect store/bar staff to intervene and judge you poorly if you stand idly by and watch A tell B to shut the F* up and do as she's told.

For society to function as a whole there have to be basic expectations regarding respect and courtesy. We as a couple accept that our dynamic falls outside that societal expectation at times so we keep it private by mutual agreement. We recognise that it's a good thing for society that men can't beat their women in public. Just because we choose to step outside that societal expectation in private, doesn't mean we think society should shift its standards to accommodate our dynamic and that of the abusive, wife beating fucktard along the street.

 

[dolf]

what kind of twit backhands his sub in public?

oh, i could add something more constructive than that...but...nope.

LOL

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I think what you're saying is true MasterPhoenix.

The truth is, what she and I desperately need, and have desperately needed for some time now, is more alone time with just her and I.

It's been very difficult to have that since lo moved in with me. I don't think there's any one of us that doesn't desire more alone time for C and I, but the situation is often made difficult by our actions.

To put it bluntly, C demands quality time with me in a way that makes me want to, consistently, tell her to fuck off. Meanwhile, lo tends to panic a bit when the firm hand of Daddy is not immediately available.

It sounds like you have your answer right there in front of you, bro. You are talking about one of the concerns that I have always had when I have thought of poly. They both need their OWN time with you, and balancing that need from both of them sounds like it is wearing on you.

If I may offer a bit of a suggestion, find a way to block out a certain period for each where they get their alone with Dom time. Make it clear that the set aside time is for each one, and that its not to be disturbed but in a cataclysmic emergency.

IF I am off base, feel free to tell me.