Does society train us to be switch?

[neonflux]

I also think that it is news that switches are held in contempt. I think that perhaps the issues were with the personalities involved, not their orientation.

I have never felt disrespected on this site for being switch. Nor within my local groups / communities. I enjoy being wired the way I am. Then again, I AM a Gemini, lol. Hmmmmm... could that be it? I have a split personality?

 

[zuzub]

I also think that it is news that switches are held in contempt.

First of all, I'm assuming that 'switch' means the ability to assume either role. Why is that bad? Is it that people are more comfortable with hardwired? Do they think that a 'switcher' is less sincere or trustworthy?

Just trying to understand why 'switch' seems to be a bad word.

Mom, what does 'fuck' mean?

Hey is this wrong? Cause if so, just ignore and carry on. I'll eventually get it.

 

[precious105]

ok how the hell did this become a discussion on switch being either good or bad or in contempt. Its not the purpose of this thread. It seems that everyone has the same opinion on it that nobody cares one bit on whether you are a switch or not!

As for the aforementioned "contempt" on switch everyone can just forget it. It was just a simple observation that was made.

If you don't have something to say about the topic and only want to whine about switches/dom's/subs then I'd rather you open your own thread.

 

[precious105]

First of all, I'm assuming that 'switch' means the ability to assume either role. Why is that bad? Is it that people are more comfortable with hardwired? Do they think that a 'switcher' is less sincere or trustworthy?

Just trying to understand why 'switch' seems to be a bad word.

Mom, what does 'fuck' mean?

Hey is this wrong? Cause if so, just ignore and carry on. I'll eventually get it.

Yes Switch means that sometimes you Top and sometimes you bottom. There is nothing wrong with this and is very common.

Some people don't like Switches and they all have thier own reasons, some people prefer them (usually switches themselves) You can be a switch with a preference towards submission or Dominance.

Know that when a switch is Topping they don't have any tendencies towards their subbie side and vice versa.

Sometimes different people can bring out a different side in a switch that makes them want to be more submissive or more Dominate.

If anyone else wants to add to this/correct it go at it.

 

[zuzub]

ok how the hell did this become a discussion on switch being either good or bad or in contempt. Its not the purpose of this thread. It seems that everyone has the same opinion on it that nobody cares one bit on whether you are a switch or not!

As for the aforementioned "contempt" on switch everyone can just forget it. It was just a simple observation that was made.

If you don't have something to say about the topic and only want to whine about switches/dom's/subs then I'd rather you open your own thread.

Precious, I'm sorry. I hope your frustration isn't because of me. I'm dumb & new. I didn't mean to pollute your thread. I apologize. zuzu.b

Also, I misunderstood Ebony, she was saying "it's fine", I'm the one who has it wrong.

BTW - thanks for explaining!

 

[precious105]

nono a honest question is never bad, its the switch in comment that was one comment a while back that keeps getting brought up that has me a bit mad. Gotta love it when something keeps getting thrown back in that has absolutely nothing to do with anything!

 

[neonflux]

ok how the hell did this become a discussion on switch being either good or bad or in contempt. Its not the purpose of this thread. It seems that everyone has the same opinion on it that nobody cares one bit on whether you are a switch or not!

As for the aforementioned "contempt" on switch everyone can just forget it. It was just a simple observation that was made.

If you don't have something to say about the topic and only want to whine about switches/dom's/subs then I'd rather you open your own thread.

Precious, I am not sure where the response was made. I don't think that anyone is attacking you, or whining. I certainly wasn't in making my comment, which, while slightly irreverent, was basically about my experience. Your original topic is good and I, for one, have enjoyed people's answers. Sometimes interesting things can come out of the ebb and flow and round about meanderings that make up public boards... Neon

 

[Sir Victor]

ok how the hell did this become a discussion on switch being either good or bad or in contempt. Its not the purpose of this thread. It seems that everyone has the same opinion on it that nobody cares one bit on whether you are a switch or not!

As for the aforementioned "contempt" on switch everyone can just forget it. It was just a simple observation that was made.

If you don't have something to say about the topic and only want to whine about switches/dom's/subs then I'd rather you open your own thread.

I'd like to ask a question that might lead to an answer. Do you believe that Dominance and submission are innate or instinctive? There have been some discussions about this here on the board.

 

[precious105]

I may be a bit being a bit harsh but I just don't want another argument over whats "right" and whats "wrong" or who's "right" and who's "wrong".

I just don't care.

I'm pulling rank. This is my thread and if I just don't care you all shouldn't either. Don't like it? Well I guess I can't stop you from posting but I'll scowl on the other end haha.

I'm not trying to disengage real questions that arise like zubzub's on switches.

Playful banter is fun I just don't want to go off on this tangent any longer than necessary with the contempt comment getting brought up 10 more times.

If anyone is wondering I have a job where I have take control every day, I am an art director, I schedule photo shoots, direct the shoots, do the artwork, present it to the client, etc. etc. etc. When I get home I don't want any part of any control what-so-ever, I have had my fill. So this is really where the whole thing got started cuz I think I'm in the minority here. Although that really shouldn't be too hard to understand.

 

[precious105]

I'd like to ask a question that might lead to an answer. Do you believe that Dominance and submission are innate or instinctive? There have been some discussions about this here on the board.

innate, with everyone I've met they've all said they've always known, or atleast think they always knew. I'm sure some instict may kick in after figuring everything out but I'd have to go more with the innate side of that one. (very similar though)

 

[Sir Victor]

innate, with everyone I've met they've all said they've always known, or atleast think they always knew. I'm sure some instict may kick in after figuring everything out but I'd have to go more with the innate side of that one. (very similar though)

Yes, I agree and am surprised that some think it is not, when it's seen in nearly all animals. And I meant innate and instinctive as opposed to taught by society or caused by trauma or any form of conditioning. So it is a lower brain function, we don't have to think about it, it just feels right. Most instictive things are hormonal and completely automatic, hunger is caused by a hormone I believe. D/s certainly gets the hormones racing for many if not most people.

So the next question is do you think being a switch is instinctive? I never thought so, because I don't feel it, the desire for it. However, like you I thought about work and how we do have to "obey" the big boss, I always felt that it was fine because that's what we're paid for. Still it is submission in a sense. But back to the question do you think there are examples of switches in nature?

 

[neonflux]

Edited to shorten... If anyone is wondering I have a job where I have take control every day, I am an art director, I schedule photo shoots, direct the shoots, do the artwork, present it to the client, etc. etc. etc. When I get home I don't want any part of any control what-so-ever, I have had my fill. So this is really where the whole thing got started cuz I think I'm in the minority here. Although that really shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Precious, why do you feel that you are in the minority here? Just inquiring... ~ Neon

 

[CutieMouse]

If anyone is wondering I have a job where I have take control every day, I am an art director, I schedule photo shoots, direct the shoots, do the artwork, present it to the client, etc. etc. etc. When I get home I don't want any part of any control what-so-ever, I have had my fill. So this is really where the whole thing got started cuz I think I'm in the minority here. Although that really shouldn't be too hard to understand.

I'm confused... how on earth does this have any bearing on the concept of being a "switch"? *I* identify the term "switch" within BDSM roles (top/bottom/whatever); outside of BDSM, it's called living.

I believe very very few people are completely one way or the other... if too many people were submissive in every aspect of their lives, and too many people dominant in every aspect of their lives, it seems to me there would be more dictatorships in the world. LOL

I don't see it as society training us to be "switches"; I see it as functioning people living in a functioning world... or maybe I'm confused...

BTW- I am a small business owner, which means every freaking thing boils down to ME. Prior to that I ran the catalogue department of a used & rare bookshop. Prior to that , I was responsible for the daily management of a home, large family of homeschooling children, plus the volunteer work I did with a woman's organization- running monthly meetings with 30-45 in attendance... I am most comfortable identifying myself as 80-90% submissive, but have never felt that my career choices, lifestyle choices, or "power" in the real world (for lack of a better term) was in any way contradictory to my self-identified state, nor have I ever made any "switch" connection between who I am as a submissive woman, and who I am as a business owner, book cataloguer, mother, volunteer, etc... all of them are me.

Or maybe I'm still confused...

 

[precious105]

Yes, I agree and am surprised that some think it is not, when it's seen in nearly all animals. And I meant innate and instinctive as opposed to taught by society or caused by trauma. So it is a lower brain function, we don't have to think about it, it just feels right. Most instictive things are hormonal and completely automatic, hunger is caused by a hormone I believe. D/s certainly gets the hormones racing for many if not most people.

So the next question is do you think being a switch is instinctive? I never thought so, because I don't feel it, the desire for it. However, like you I thought about work and how we do have to "obey" the big boss, I always felt that it was fine because that's what we're paid for. Still it is submission in a sense. But back to the question do you think there are examples of switches in nature?

to clear up the meaning on the terms for everyone reading:

Yes we all have to answer to a big boss, but in my case the big boss rely's on me to do my job and he often rely's on me to interpret some of the harder points of my jobs to him (especially when it involves web work) I'm as close to being my own boss without doing freelance as it gets. I don't really consider it submission to him and I often think he rely's more on me rather than the other way around.(I absolultely hate it and kind of resent him for that too)

Examples of switches in nature, I haven't thought on that before, pretty interesting idea though.

Hmmm lets think....May be a stretch but I'll look at the elephant, the females all form a group and protect each other. For the most part they interact with only each other and have no need to show dominace over any other animal, they really live to serve each other and the group. From that group there is a leader that all the other elephants look to they make the decisions for the group etc. But they have come from a life where they've only known to follow the group.. Ok it is a bit of a stretch.

 

[CutieMouse]

Honestly? I think you're thinking too hard...

 

[Sir Victor]

Honestly? I think you're thinking too hard...

You don't see dominant/submissive personalities in everyday life?
Take charge people are often dominant.
Leaders/followers.
It makes perfect sense and they do often switch.
It is how it is in the wild, dominance is involved in everyday life.

 

[precious105]

I'm confused... how on earth does this have any bearing on the concept of being a "switch"? *I* identify the term "switch" within BDSM roles (top/bottom/whatever); outside of BDSM, it's called living.

I believe very very few people are completely one way or the other... if too many people were submissive in every aspect of their lives, and too many people dominant in every aspect of their lives, it seems to me there would be more dictatorships in the world. LOL

I don't see it as society training us to be "switches"; I see it as functioning people living in a functioning world... or maybe I'm confused...

BTW- I am a small business owner, which means every freaking thing boils down to ME. Prior to that I ran the catalogue department of a used & rare bookshop. Prior to that , I was responsible for the daily management of a home, large family of homeschooling children, plus the volunteer work I did with a woman's organization- running monthly meetings with 30-45 in attendance... I am most comfortable identifying myself as 80-90% submissive, but have never felt that my career choices, lifestyle choices, or "power" in the real world (for lack of a better term) was in any way contradictory to my self-identified state, nor have I ever made any "switch" connection between who I am as a submissive woman, and who I am as a business owner, book cataloguer, mother, volunteer, etc... all of them are me.

Or maybe I'm still confused...

Haha, you may be confused but you added to what I was trying to say atleast.

I think I've pretty much resigned myself to there really being no correlation between jobs and dom/sub/switch.

The original thought is explained in the first post. It would make sense that what you do from day to day may affect how you are night to night. Take into mind that I'm a year out of college and the whole "job" thing is working its way into every aspect of my thinking.

I think I've managed to either confuse people, intrigue them, or send them off laughing at the idea.

 

[Sir Victor]

to clear up the meaning on the terms for everyone reading:

Yes we all have to answer to a big boss, but in my case the big boss rely's on me to do my job and he often rely's on me to interpret some of the harder points of my jobs to him (especially when it involves web work) I'm as close to being my own boss without doing freelance as it gets. I don't really consider it submission to him and I often think he rely's more on me rather than the other way around.(I absolultely hate it and kind of resent him for that too)

Examples of switches in nature, I haven't thought on that before, pretty interesting idea though.

Hmmm lets think....May be a stretch but I'll look at the elephant, the females all form a group and protect each other. For the most part they interact with only each other and have no need to show dominace over any other animal, they really live to serve each other and the group. From that group there is a leader that all the other elephants look to they make the decisions for the group etc. But they have come from a life where they've only known to follow the group.. Ok it is a bit of a stretch.

I tend to think of apes, but it doesn't really matter. The males are mostly dominant to start, and fight to establish the Alpha male, at which time the others are forced to "switch" and become at least somewhat submissive. They say that being defeated actually causes a change in brain chemistry so that they become somewhat more submissive. And the winner becomes somewhat more manic, feeling all powerful.

They will continue to fight from time to time, and as the old Alpha male ages, a new younger male eventually becomes the Alpha male. So even the Alpha must be a switch at some point.

I believe that the females also compete for which one will be the Alpha female to lead, keeping the female roles in order. They are all switches as I see it, some may take it better than others, but it seems to be necessary for survival as a group.

Does this make sense?

 

[Netzach]

You don't see dominant/submissive personalities in everyday life?
Take charge people are often dominant.
Leaders/followers.
It makes perfect sense and they do often switch.

I do notice this. However I find that there are often completely surprising things to be found when you compare someone's private and public life.

I hate leading socially as much as I hate following socially, possibly even more. However privately I *require* leadership.

Socially I just want to be left alone free of authorities I don't care to acknowledge on my own. I am not remotely "alpha" anything, but rule my roost quietly.

 

[precious105]

Its the thought of that high powered executive being submissive at home, or the thought of the sweet softspoken nurse at a school going home and being in total control that is really the most intriguing.

The people who switch what they do during the day from what they do during at home.

Its the people who have contradicting jobs/ roles in bed that I really am holding to the spotlight. Does the job ever instill wants or desires you didn't have before. Is your job in fact making you want to do something other than what you've already identified with?


I'm getting better at explaining myself (or atleast I like to think so)

 

[Netzach]

I tend to think of apes, but it doesn't really matter. The males are mostly dominant to start, and fight to establish the Alpha male, at which time the others are forced to "switch" and become at least somewhat submissive. They say that being defeated actually causes a change in brain chemistry so that they become somewhat more submissive. And the winner becomes somewhat more manic, feeling all powerful.

They will continue to fight from time to time, and as the old Alpha male ages, a new younger male eventually becomes the Alpha male. So even the Alpha must be a switch at some point.

I believe that the females also compete for which one will be the Alpha female to lead, keeping the female roles in order. They are all switches as I see it, some may take it better than others, but it seems to be necessary for survival as a group.

Does this make sense?

Among bonobos, our closer relative, or chimps, the submissive/dominant continuum isn't just along sex lines. There are males who are subservient to high rank females. The high rank females are downright scary.

 

[Netzach]

Its the thought of that high powered executive being submissive at home, or the thought of the sweet softspoken nurse at a school going home and being in total control that is really the most intriguing.

The people who switch what they do during the day from what they do during at home.

Its the people who have contradicting jobs/ roles in bed that I really am holding to the spotlight. Does the job ever instill wants or desires you didn't have before. Is your job in fact making you want to do something other than what you've already identified with?


I'm getting better at explaining myself (or atleast I like to think so)

Like Cutie, I run my own business out of my home. I did this because of the complete inability I had to be on the bottom of corporate hierarchies run by people rewarded for conformity and not smarts. I got *out*.

I do not find that my autonomy has me interested in contrasting it at home at all - I'm happier globally and more in control globally and therefore much more inclined to play as I like to play, ie. on top.

But if I had people looking to me all day to see what they ought to do, I might need to counteract this more strongly, I'm not sure.

 

[Sir Victor]

I do notice this. However I find that there are often completely surprising things to be found when you compare someone's private and public life.

I hate leading socially as much as I hate following socially, possibly even more. However privately I *require* leadership. Socially I just want to be left alone free of authorities I don't care to acknowledge on my own.

Yes of course, they say that often the customers for professional Dommes are powerful professional business men, or is that just a stereotype? It seems that some need balance. Satisfying the innate switch in many people?

 

[precious105]

I tend to think of apes, but it doesn't really matter. The males are mostly dominant to start, and fight to establish the Alpha male, at which time the others are forced to "switch" and become at least somewhat submissive. They say that being defeated actually causes a change in brain chemistry so that they become somewhat more submissive. And the winner becomes somewhat more manic, feeling all powerful.

They will continue to fight from time to time, and as the old Alpha male ages, a new younger male eventually becomes the Alpha male. So even the Alpha must be a switch at some point.

I believe that the females also compete for which one will be the Alpha female to lead, keeping the female roles in order. They are all switches as I see it, some may take it better than others, but it seems to be necessary for survival as a group.

Does this make sense?

Well it makes sense to me

Although someone could walk up and say they all want to be dominate and therefore they are dominate.... Or since they didn't win dominace then they are submissive.

I side with the switch because they are happy either way, the ones that run away from the group and become "rouges" would really be the hard dominate ones that are willing to fight another tribe to gain dominace.

 

[Netzach]

Yes of course, they say that often the customers for professional Dommes are powerful professional business men, or is that just a stereotype? It seems that some need balance. Satisfying the innate switch in many people?

It's a stereotype, but I don't think those are always baseless. I found it to be accurate part of the time - "balancers" I called them to myself, and they were often my favorite kind of toy.