Does your spouse (or SO) have the right

[Bobmi357]

Ok lets throw out the idea of having sex when you're undergoing chemo or severely sick. I don't know about other people, but if my wife were that sick I would be too worried about her to want to have sex, frankly I think I might even be afraid that it would only worsen her condition.

What follows below discusses cases where this isn't a case of being tired because of a day spent with the kids, or having recently giving birth. Temporary drops like those are natural and should be expected by both partners.

So assume one spouse (or SO) suddenly experiences a lack of libido for no medical reason (It does happen).

To answer the original posters question, yes the spouse (or SO) does have the right to refuse sex. HOWEVER, the spouse (or SO) wanting sex also has some rights. In this country, lack of sex is grounds for divorce. In fact its one of the most common ground for divorce, Irreconcilable differences, is one of the terms they use.

So a spouse can withhold sex, but doing so endangers the relationship. The reasons for the withholding do not matter, if he/she isn't sick, then the courts consider sex as part of the obligations of marriage.

Lets say a wife decides sex has become boring or just not interested anymore. Her husband will be confused by the sudden switch from a good sex life to a lousy one, or a non-existant one. He will try talking to her. But the more she refuses him, the more she sends a message that she doesn't find him appealing anymore. He will note that, he will also resent it. Resentment breeds anger, anger breeds hatred. In a relatively short amount of time, you have two people living together that no longer love each other anymore.

Love isn't just about the physical act, but still I believe if people do not renew their intimacy on a regular basis, they cannot help but grow apart.

I lived through this in my first marriage, and am experiencing it again in my second. The difference is I will not allow it to ruin what I have again. I sat my wife down and in dozens of talks explained to her how I felt. How her lack of desire made me feel unwanted, how it was building resentment etc. Luckily for me, she understood my position and is making an effort to understand why her libido dropped into the basement. As long as she continues to make that effort I will support and stand with her every day, never leaving her side, never wanting to stray. The fact is I love her and want only her, not someone else. If she's going through a rough patch, its my obligation to support her, and my desire to support her. Its part of the marriage vows, to support each other unconditionally. Its only when she stops trying, that will doom the relationship.

Witholding sex in a marriage, or a relationship, is damaging to the relationship. Searching for the root cause and trying to address the issues should be the concern of both parties in a relationship like this. If only one party is trying to fix things, then the relationship is doomed. You might as well pack your bags and leave.

The hardest part of all this is getting the reluctant partner to recognize this is a problem. Lets say your libido drops to zero. Other than not wanting sex, you feel fine. Recognizing it as a problem, and recognizing that it can hurt your marriage is the first step to fixing the problem.

 

[Astrum]

Well I was just in this situation with my girlfriend before we broke up (although not for this reason). It's frustrating to have a partner reject you sexually and it's no different than rejecting them emotionally. I believe a relationship isn't just love, it isn't just sex, it's a combination of so many things. It's like a puzzle, if one piece is missing then it isn't complete.

So to answer the original question, yes your partner does have the right to "cut off sex". But your relationship might not survive or maybe it will or maybe it will survive simply because you are getting it else where. It sounds pretty pathetic and pig headed to break up or cheat for sex, but it's not so much the sex but the process of making love. I know for me it wasn't the sex that made me feel like I was in heaven, it was me being joined to the person that I loved more than life itself in the most intimate way possible. When your partner decides he/she has had enough you start asking, "What's wrong with me?" It really does lead to resentment and anger and usually a miserable and broken relationship.

That's just my opinion though.

 

[Missingmeds]

I said it once and I will say it again.

Communication is the key. Because communication in one of it's many forms is intimacy. That is what is important.

 

[capricious_chic]

Each person in a relationship has sole right of their body. So yes, one partner can say no.

Age, childbirth, illness are all very valid reasons for cessation of sexual activity. If those are the reasons that a partner is being denied then for them to go outside of the marriage for sexual relief means they are a bad spouse to begin with.

Neither partner has an obligation to provide sexual and physical release to the other. It is important for a healthy relationship - but should never be viewed as an obligation.

I don't believe they have the "right" to find comfort where they may just because they are deprived. I do believe that marriage is hard work, and the lack of sexuality within a marriage is a symptom of something else. I do believe that couples need to communicate their needs and desires very clearly and take responsibility for making a bad decision (as in choosing to marry someone that isn't at their same sexual drive). I do believe that people rush into marriage before really getting to know the other person. I do believe that it is your choice to stay or leave - but I also believe it to be very irresponsible and immature to engage in outside relationships before trying to work on the one you are already in. I believe you should end one relationship before engaging into another one. I find it hard to believe that one has a good sex life and wakes up one day and doesn't - I would think it more likely that they thought they had a good sex life and very rarely actually communicated about it, thus the surprise to find out that they didn't.

 

[Bobmi357]

Neither partner has an obligation to provide sexual and physical release to the other. It is important for a healthy relationship - but should never be viewed as an obligation.

Whether you like this or not, the simple fact remains is that the courts feel that a lack of sex on the part of one partner is a violation of one's marital duties. You can view it as a pleasurable chore, or a solemn duty. How you view it is entirely up to you. For me it was grounds for divorce acceptable by the court. In fact, it was the very first thing my lawyer asked me.... "How long has it been since you and your wife last made love?".

Personally I do not view this particular aspect of marriage as a duty or an obligation, but you cannot talk about this without recognizing that the courts opinion reflects society's opinion (At least most of the time it does ).

Witholding sex in a marriage or relationship endangers that relationship. Its not something people should do on a whim.

 

[capricious_chic]

I do agree that lack of sex within a marriage equals a problem. I do think that it is reason enough to end a marriage. I would never want my partner to look at me and say, "it is your obligation to fulfill my sexual needs" - because in all honesty that would piss me off.

Sexuality within a relationship is very, very important - but it is not the end all and be all of the relationship. I do have a hard time believing that the lack of sex is the only problem within the relationship.

LMAO - that would never be a problem for me though. I am always the horn dog in any relationship. I am very aware of my sexuality and always look for people that can equal my drive. I would never even consider becoming seriously involved with someone, regardless of how wonderful they were otherwise, if they didn't or couldn't match my sex drive. I guess that is what I have a problem with when it comes to this topic - I think that people dont invest the time that is really required to get to know another person well. They think they know what they are looking for - but then get into these situations/relationships that they feel are beyond their control and that they have no other option than to go outside of the relationship.

 

[ReadyOne]

No partner should ever deliberately withholding sex from a partner who wants it, outside of physical/medical reasons.

Saying, "Keep you hands off me until you <buy me a new kitchen, apologize to my mother, admit you're wrong, etc>" poisons things.

It's like failing to feeding a sick person nutritious food. It makes the body undergo additional suffering just at the time it needs all the strength it can get to heal.

 

[peachykeen]

No partner should ever deliberately withholding sex from a partner who wants it, outside of physical/medical reasons.

Oh I see. So if I've just had a huge row with my partner, and I'm angry and upset with him, but he wants to have sex, I shouldn't be allowed to say "No, I really don't want to"? I mean, there's no phyiscal or medical reason why I can't, so I guess I owe it him, eh?

 

[Guest]

 

[capricious_chic]

No partner should ever deliberately withholding sex from a partner who wants it, outside of physical/medical reasons.

Saying, "Keep you hands off me until you <buy me a new kitchen, apologize to my mother, admit you're wrong, etc>" poisons things.

It's like failing to feeding a sick person nutritious food. It makes the body undergo additional suffering just at the time it needs all the strength it can get to heal.

I think you need to define "deliberately withholding" - because I gotta tell you, if I don't feel like it and everything else is fine - I am not giving it up.

I agree that it shouldn't be used to manipulate the relationship - nor should it be that one feels that they are obligated to sexual gratification simply because they married the chick.

Passing on sex occassionally won't kill you. You only suffer for as long as it takes to get yourself off.

 

[warrior queen]

i think what the original poster was referring to, was with-holding sex for months, or even years.
not the kind of no-sex that comes after you have a baby, or if you're ill, or if there's been a disagreement.
he's asking if it's right if one person holds back on sex long-term, for reasons that may or may not be clear.

i guessed the part about childbirth, was him asking if it's right to still not be having sex when the kid is a year old or whatever.
(and let's face it, there are women out there who are still not giving out after a year - i personally know 2)

the question here seems to have been....
if there are no major medical or physical reasons, is it OK to with-hold sex from your partner for an extended period of time?

and IMHO, no - it's not ok, but unless both partners are willing (key word) to work together to find out why it's happening, it can, and usually is, disastrous to a relationship.

 

[BirdsWife]

Well I was just in this situation with my girlfriend before we broke up (although not for this reason). It's frustrating to have a partner reject you sexually and it's no different than rejecting them emotionally. I believe a relationship isn't just love, it isn't just sex, it's a combination of so many things. It's like a puzzle, if one piece is missing then it isn't complete.

So to answer the original question, yes your partner does have the right to "cut off sex". But your relationship might not survive or maybe it will or maybe it will survive simply because you are getting it else where. It sounds pretty pathetic and pig headed to break up or cheat for sex, but it's not so much the sex but the process of making love. I know for me it wasn't the sex that made me feel like I was in heaven, it was me being joined to the person that I loved more than life itself in the most intimate way possible. When your partner decides he/she has had enough you start asking, "What's wrong with me?" It really does lead to resentment and anger and usually a miserable and broken relationship.

That's just my opinion though.

I think this is the best and most accurate post in this thread.

 

[peachykeen]

he's asking if it's right if one person holds back on sex long-term, for reasons that may or may not be clear.

of course it's not "right", because it indicates that there is something very "wrong" in the relationship. That's why I said that if, after trying to sort things out, it just isn't going to work, either the relationship such as it is has to end, or the terms of the marriage need to be redefined. Simply saying "well I'll just go screw around then" is (in my book) just not a justifiable option.

 

[warrior queen]

of course it's not "right", because it indicates that there is something very "wrong" in the relationship. That's why I said that if, after trying to sort things out, it just isn't going to work, either the relationship such as it is has to end, or the terms of the marriage need to be redefined. Simply saying "well I'll just go screw around then" is (in my book) just not a justifiable option.

my response was aimed at those people who are still thinking the original post was about holding back because of legitimate reasons - chilbirth, illness, arguement, or because sometimes a person just doesn't 'feel' like having sex for a few days.

all of those kinds of reasons are valid, IMO, and therefore are not what the poster was on about.
having known several people who have decided NOT to have sex anymore, and who are in relationships (where their partner has essentially NOT been given a choice in the decision), i can understand why the question has been asked, and what he's referring to.

 

[Guest]

 

[SlickTony]

If a woman isn't holding out on her partner for passive-aggressive reasons, it could be her hormones, if she's a certain age. I remember feeling my desire just disappear for a while, and the feeling of almost-dread when my husband would come nuzzling up against me wanting sex. I wanted to want to, but I couldn't--it was like having an application you can see up there on your screen, but it's all grayed out and when you try to bring it up you're told that the .exe or .dll files are missing. (If I went ahead and did it, I would eventually get off, but even that took longer than it needed to have). I asked my gynecologist about it and he prescribed Estratest. It's made all the difference in the world. It made me feel like I was me again. I would go on TV and plug it, like Bob Dole plugged Viagra, if I were asked to.

 

[Bobmi357]

of course it's not "right", because it indicates that there is something very "wrong" in the relationship. That's why I said that if, after trying to sort things out, it just isn't going to work, either the relationship such as it is has to end, or the terms of the marriage need to be redefined. Simply saying "well I'll just go screw around then" is (in my book) just not a justifiable option.

I am not so sure I agree with this Peachy. In many cases withholding probably does indicate a major problem within the relationship, but in other cases I don't think it does.

In my first marriage, the withholding was accompanied by long periods of silence, then fighting (along with her screaming like a banshee and throwing things). Quite obviously there were issues there beyond just the withholding.

In my second marriage my wife just lost her desire. She's not angry with me, I didn't call her Mom something bad, or piss off her family. We do talk quite frequently, we cuddle, often hold hands while watching TV etc... She just lost it, she knows it, there is nothing medically wrong with her. Its frustrating as all hell. None of the things that used to get her hot and horny work anymore. She's still my best friend, my helper, my cuddlemate in and out of bed. She's still the woman I want to make love with. Her touch can still ignite a fire in me that is nearly uncontrollable. But the simple fact is, she has very little desire to have sex. She doesn't know why, neither do I. Outside of that one issue, I do not see any problems in our relationship. I've asked her about other issues on several occasions and she can't think of any either.

Now we weren't exactly setting records for lovemaking before she lost it, but were quite content with the 3-4 times a week. When it slipped to once or twice a month I realized we were in trouble if we didn't start talking about it. I don't know about her, but I started feeling the same kind of resentment and hurt feelings as I felt in my first marriage, and that scared me greatly.

I don't talk about sex with her easily. For me, talking about sex and telling her what I wanted from her sounded real close to complaining. And complaints were the very last thing I wanted to talk about. Bringing up an issue like this puts the relationship in danger simply because if you bring it up wrong, you end up fighting about it and never really working to resolve anything. The first couple of conversations we had on the topic made me feel like I was walking in an emotional minefield. Trying to express my point of view and my concerns without it seeming like an attack on her personally wasn't easy. Especially because at that point, I was hurting. When you hurt, your natural inclination is to lash out at what hurt you. I had to fight long and hard with myself to bury that before I ever opened my mouth.

Fortunately for me I married a very smart woman, one that was capable of understanding the topic that I was so carefully dancing around. I won't say that our conversations fixed things. But our talks did help ease the resentment I was starting to feel as well as the hurt. Oh to be sure, the feelings are still there, and every so often they build up to the point where we end up having another "talk" about it. But she has been trying. I can see that, and as long as she continues trying, I'll stay with her forever. It means she values our relationship as much as I do.

If I had to give any advise to someone in a relationship where one spouse has suddenly lost the desire to have sex, I'd say the following;

To the spouse wanting sex;
Talk to your spouse! Bring this topic out into the open and examine it. Look for causes and address them. Try to get your spouse to understand your point of view. Without fighting about it, make your spouse understand what they are doing does endanger your relationship. Explain about the hurt feelings, the feeling of being unwanted, unloved. Don't shout, don't accuse, talk, and offer support and attention. Also look at what you can do, yourself, to be a better spouse to your partner.

To the spouse not wanting sex;
There may be a medical cause for your lack of desire. YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF AND YOUR MATE TO HAVE THAT RULED OUT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Understand that while you have lost your desire, you've also started a power game in the relationship. In one fell swoop you've assumed control over when and where sex happens, without consulting your partner at all. This sort of thing breeds resentment from your partner. Imagine how you'd feel if your partner pulled the same thing on you. You'd be confused and hurt about it also.

Talk to your partner, he/she is probably more than a little confused and hurt by your rejection. Recognize that this IS A PROBLEM even if you don't think it is. Whether you think it is a problem or not is irrelevant because the fact is, your spouse DOES think it is a problem. Look around for root causes that might be at the heart of the problem, medical issues, medications, stress, anything which might be a cause and take steps to relieve anything you can.

Enlist the aid and support of your spouse. In a normal, good, relationship, your spouse will help you, not out of selfish self interest, but because your spouse does love you and cares about you. Understand that while you may not be getting horny, your spouse does. I won't say this is the point where you give your spouse permission to seek relief outside of the marriage, but you should be prepared to either provide an outlet yourself or let your spouse find one for themselves. It is unfair to expect your spouse to remain celibate in the hopes that your libido may someday return to normal.

Experiment. Explore your own sexuality, you might get lucky and find something that does turn you on which you can share with your spouse.

To both partners;
TALK ABOUT IT!!!!

If you cannot keep the lines of communications open, you might as well pack your bags and leave right now.

Understand that both of you are facing a relationship crisis which you both must work on. The spouse who has lost the desire is probably just as confused about it as the spouse who has not. If you can't bring this problem out into the light of day and examine it, talk about it, pick it apart and find ways to work around it, then the relationship will be doomed.

In previous posts I mentioned that the courts view sex as a marital obligation. Perhaps people don't like that term and thats ok. But never forget you DO HAVE an obligation to work together to solve problems. Your problems are your spouses problems and vice versa.

 

[tendril]

Wow...Bobmi, that is one great post.

 

[Missingmeds]

Wow...Bobmi, that is one great post.

Yes, what tendril said.

 

[BTK51]

… and according to what i understand sexuality can change throughout one's life


… i think if our expectations are realistic there's a more likely chance we'll be less disenchanted with each other...


… and i may be full of shit, but not completely full of shit..and i'm fully expecting to be stoned for this...but then everyone must get stoned sometime...or be a worm perhaps

ciao toots

I’ll add that sexuality not only can change but WILL change. So will lots of other things in a relationship so both people must change as well. That’s the key to a growing relationship. IMHO a loving relationship either grows or breaks down. In reality, it never reaches a plateau and sustains itself.

You’re so right about the expectations!

Stoned for what?

As for the original question, Kenny, I think your half-right. The “cut-off” person has the right to look for someone else but if they decide to exercise that “right” they also have the “obligation” to notify their current partner of their intentions and actions.

So many other things that should be present in a relationship like patience, understanding, communications, kindness, and sacrifice have to come into play here. When one or several of these are not present in both parties, then obviously the relationship breaks down. Ultimatums are never the answer either. There is a whole plethora of rights and obligations inherent to any relationship and each situation is unique.

The deprived partner has the right to want another sexual partner but also has the obligation to not trample the right of the cutting-off partner to expect honesty and if agreed upon, fidelity.

BOBMI – Great Post and you’re right on the money. I think Peachy’s point is well-taken as well. We may just be talking semantics but something as important as sex to a relationship that suddenly and abruptly changes directions for one partner, is very much an “indication” that something is terribly “wrong”. I submit that is precisely why you got the feelings that you did. You had the perseverance to think it through and act correctly but you also had the added benefit that you “married a very smart woman, one that was capable of understanding the topic that I was so carefully dancing around”.

 

[Astrum]

That was a great post Bobmi. If I'm ever in this situation again I'll have a better idea of what may be happening and what to do about it.

In all reality the lack of sex in my relationship was my fault now that I look back on it. She was a virgin to everything basically. I thought it would be best to let her make any sexual moves at her own pace. I never pushed her into anything sexual and I suppose that lead to her controlling the sexual side of our relationship. I never really talked to her about it since I just wanted her to feel comfortable with everything. I'm sure there were other factors involved, but I think this was the key one.

Live and learn I suppose.

 

[BlueSugar]

This forces that decision on you unless you are willing to "go outside the marriage" for sexual relief and comfort.

Personally, I believe each partner in a marriage has an obligation to provide physical and sexual comfort to their partner

you have excellent points as does everyone else here of course. But sex doesn't make a marriage, it doesn't make a relationship... it helps, and is heathly and wonderful and I could go on forever on the pro of Yes it is an obligation...

But say if it was you and you loved your spouse, and you cut them off ... but you still loved them dearly and wanted to spend every waking moment with them, and of course the children to coinsider... not that easy hm?
I also don't like the word obligation ... Obligation is to love and cherish and provide, take care of .... ::shrug:: ... it isn't an obligation to give your spouse oral every night/morning (what ever) ... sounds too much like a job then a loving act.

and... I would like to point out, that we are in theinsert very small percent here in all the worlds species to have monogomy thoughout life...this includes everything from insects to chimps... see what having a advanced brain does... can you IMAGINE if you were a ape/chimp/gorilla etc? you would either have a group or a harem

If you choose to live mono-ly then have and cherish and stay true.

But I find it difficult to love just one person (and yes, you can take all the sex etc in the world away from me and I will still say that ... just..uh... don't... I spent alot of money on toys and I'd be more in the hole then some warhammer players... hehe)

 

[warrior queen]

this thread could go much further than just being about with-holding sex...... what about those instances where both partners are ecstatically happy to have sex at all hours of the day and night, but then one half decides that the only appropriate way/place is 9-30pm on every second saturday in bed with the lights off?

i am a morning person - love a good slow wake-up fuck..... my ex is a night person...... and no way in hell was he going to accomodate MY needs and wants, but fully expected me to do his.
yet for the first 4 years he was happy to have a morning romp.

and when asked why the change, he just said 'because'.
and made no further effort to please me.

and nothing i said or did made any difference.

why do people suddenly become so different?
what makes them change from the person they were when you met, to the stranger they are some years later?
and why is it, that usually it's only one partner who recognises that there is a problem and makes the effort to fix it?

when does a sharing, communicating partnership become a monotonous, i've-got-you-now-so-i'm-not-going-to-make-the-effort mundanity?

if someone were to manage to make a user's guide to relationships (one that wasn't 5467 pages long and filled with obscure psych words) they'd be hailed as a god.

either that, or we just gotta teach that mutual respect is the only obligation they need to worry about - everything else will flow from that credo.

 

[Missingmeds]

why do people suddenly become so different?
what makes them change from the person they were when you met, to the stranger they are some years later?
and why is it, that usually it's only one partner who recognises that there is a problem and makes the effort to fix it?

when does a sharing, communicating partnership become a monotonous, i've-got-you-now-so-i'm-not-going-to-make-the-effort mundanity?

if someone were to manage to make a user's guide to relationships (one that wasn't 5467 pages long and filled with obscure psych words) they'd be hailed as a god.

either that, or we just gotta teach that mutual respect is the only obligation they need to worry about - everything else will flow from that credo.

They don't usually become so different. What they do in my personal opinion is become stagnant. They are secure in the relationship. They don't want things to change to suit someone else. They want things their own way and that is it.

If they admit there is a problem they might have to do something about it and that is what they don't want. So therefore, they won't admit that there is a problem.

As to mutual respect issue, that is not the answer either. They either have that from day one or they don't. They might hide the fact that they don't, but you can't make someone learn something.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I live this scenario with my lover. His wife has had no interest in sex for over 10 years. He still cares for her and doesn't really want to divorce her. But he has a very high libito and wasn't willing to give that up entirely for life. I know how many of you disapprove of this type of solution to this problem. But I just smile. Check back in history - people have been taking lovers on the side since time began. I'm not saying history makes it right - I'm just saying that it is a common practice - there must be many people who feel the same way.

On the other hand: Is it so wrong to have sex once in a while - even if you personally are not DYING to have sex - because you know it will make your partner happy? I mean - its only sex! Don't you sometimes take out the trash or do the dishes (or fill in some other chore) just to make your SO happy? I know - you'll all jump on me saying "Sex shouldn't be a chore...." Well - No - it shouldn't. But sometimes we do things for our partners not just cuz we want to - but because they want to. And you smile and put on a happy face and love them.

How's that for speaking out of both sides of my ass!?!?