Endless Ends

[barefootgirl69]

The ethics of fantasizing.

But, what about relationships that haven't ended on those terms? What are the ethics of fantasizing about someone who might actively not want to be . . . an object of affection?

There are ethics of fantasizing?

I don't think we can dictate who fantasizes about us (just don't send me tributes or proof!).

In my world, once I'm done, I'm done. You're an ex for a reason, no matter what the reason is. I'm not going to rehearse it and get bogged down in what could have been or should be. I'll be focusing on what's ahead and open to whatever fantasies come my way through meeting new people.

 

[Endless_Night]

I think politics, consumerism and mass media are mostly to blame. Money basically, which equals power.

If you take pre-1950’s literature as your baseline for “intellectual being a requirement of manhood”, who was producing most of it and writing it and who were they writing for?

But suddenly post 1950, the number of households with television shot up. Still, most adults and children had grown up reading the same books you’re reading now. So same expectations for a man to have had a classical education and therefore would be an intellectual (we’ll leave out posh entitled idiots for the time being).

As the generations move forward, more and more households have access to mass media, which gives advertising and huge new market. A common trope in media is the resentment of the poor man towards the intellectuals. So advertising and the type of media to appeal to the biggest market gradually capitalized on that resentment. The rise of the glorified poor idiot with no education but huge muscles.

Look at our education systems for the last 75 years. Smart kids get picked on, boy cries? What a little faggot. It’s not new though. It’s just been utilized to generate sales.

Here end’s my TED talk: Economics can explain changes in societal norms.

This is genius.

Technology + Economics = shifting societal norms.

 

[Endless_Night]

There are ethics of fantasizing?

I don't think we can dictate who fantasizes about us -

Nope. Only about what feels ethical to ourselves governing our own behavior.

(just don't send me tributes or proof!).

Eww. Eww, eww.

In my world, once I'm done, I'm done.

This seems to be the most common take so far.

 

[Apisto42]

This seems to be the most common take so far.

Not even when you were 21 and your ex from a couple years ago shows up at closing time and you take her home and let her have her way with you?

No?

Just me?

 

[LaisDeMarieDeFrance]

Not even when you were 21 and your ex from a couple years ago shows up at closing time and you take her home and let her have her way with you?

No?

Just me?

I got back with a Lit ex.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Okay. And since I seem to be on a mentally wandering roll -

Why did intellectualism fall out of the definition of being manly?

(Muscles and I discussed this somewhere back in the thread, I think.)

It used to be an integral part* of the meaning, but somehow seemed to have been pushed to the background in favor of physical pursuits and prowess. Not that those things aren't relevant, but surely do not exist as the whole.

Outright aggression seems to have jumped to the fore, as well, which interests me not.

I don't mean merely cerebral or general intelligence. What about emotional intelligence, and practical/creative intelligence?

You know, someone who can fix a burst pipe. Do math equations in their head. Discuss the simplicity yet weightiness of Blake's verse. Extrapolate societal changes and their impact on genetic drift.

All at the same time.

Okay. Maybe not all at the same time.

But, why isn't a well balanced intellectualism considered a prerequisite for manliness anymore?

I don't get it. It should be.

I leave out Social Intelligence. Not because it's not valuable, but because it's not something I really understand.

*I know this because much of my reading is books 75+ years or more.

I don't mean to be trite. I've thought this through and saw the replies.

Doesn't it come down to what each of us consider what manliness is? To some, it might simply be a man who can fix a car and keep the house from falling down. To others, it might mean being able to converse in any type of social setting. It might mean they dress in stylish suits to one, where someone else is okay with jeans and a polo shirt.

What is the norm in one culture might not be in another.

Ex: My dad is pre-baby boomer, born in Mexico. And there was only one daughter out of all those boys! I'm the only daughter. I grew up being taken care of. Like a princess, in a bubble. My mom is well taken care of, doted on. I out grew that, and it drives me insane to be treated like this now. (Yes, I realize that sounds crazy for a submissive!)

But, that's his idea of being manly. I blame his culture, but not all of his brother's were like this.

Now I've lost my train of thought.

I’ll come back this. I’ve been pondering life, mortality, what is self, and how many times I can get off today while listening to an eclectic play list through my AirPods while cutting down invasive trees with my chainsaw.

I have thoughts.

 

[Endless_Night]

Not even when you were 21 and your ex from a couple years ago shows up at closing time and you take her home and let her have her way with you?

No?

Just me?

1) I didn't necessarily say it was my take.
2) That was not, in fact, fantasizing, but action.
3) Don't willfully misunderstand the question at hand.

 

[Endless_Night]

3) Don't willfully misunderstand the question at hand.

Especially to boast.

 

[LaisDeMarieDeFrance]

Okay. And since I seem to be on a mentally wandering roll -

Why did intellectualism fall out of the definition of being manly?

(Muscles and I discussed this somewhere back in the thread, I think.)

It used to be an integral part* of the meaning, but somehow seemed to have been pushed to the background in favor of physical pursuits and prowess. Not that those things aren't relevant, but surely do not exist as the whole.

Outright aggression seems to have jumped to the fore, as well, which interests me not.

I don't mean merely cerebral or general intelligence. What about emotional intelligence, and practical/creative intelligence?

You know, someone who can fix a burst pipe. Do math equations in their head. Discuss the simplicity yet weightiness of Blake's verse. Extrapolate societal changes and their impact on genetic drift.

All at the same time.

Okay. Maybe not all at the same time.

But, why isn't a well balanced intellectualism considered a prerequisite for manliness anymore?

I don't get it. It should be.

I leave out Social Intelligence. Not because it's not valuable, but because it's not something I really understand.

*I know this because much of my reading is books 75+ years or more.

Emotional intelligence is the sexiest intelligence to me. I crave it. Even though I joked earlier, I do need a certain level of intelligence in a partner. Not school learning per se, because Universities are ineffective these days. (That's a whole different subject.)

Aggression is a huge turn off outside of the bedroom. Raised voices stresses me out, even when I'm a bystander.

My favorite romance novels when I was a teen were by Georgette Heyer. Her male protagonists were worldly and intelligent and fell in love with bright and feisty women.

 

[Endless_Night]

I got back with a Lit ex.

Curious. How did that go for you?

If you don't mind answering, of course!

 

[LaisDeMarieDeFrance]

Curious. How did that go for you?

If you don't mind answering, of course!

It had been years and he hadn't been active, but I felt I owed him an apology. So I sent one. He read it and we're still talking.

Possibly NES:
There was never any issue with the e-sex. That was always satisfying.

The issue was that we got too attached too quickly. Hopefully we will handle this better this time around. Trying to keep it to lightness and fun.

 

[Endless_Night]

Doesn't it come down to what each of us consider what manliness is?

It absolutely does.

My referencing was regarding how men used to be portrayed, societally, in older literature, and how those norms have changed over time, dropping, what seems to me, to be important criteria.

I'm not sure if this means you . . . have a sexual chainsaw thing. If you choose to clarify, feel free to answer yes or no without any potentially disturbing details.

 

[Endless_Night]

My favorite romance novels when I was a teen were by Georgette Heyer. Her male protagonists were worldly and intelligent and fell in love with bright and feisty women.

I've read some of her stuff when young!

Now I only read werewolf romance.


Totally, totally kidding.

Or am I?

 

[LaisDeMarieDeFrance]

I've read some of her stuff when young!

Now I only read werewolf romance.


Totally, totally kidding.

Or am I?

If only she had written better smut. I'm a fan of werewolf romance myself. Dang FB gets me sucked in to them.

 

[Wand3rlust]

 

[Apisto42]

View attachment 2704228

Something looks off with his pecs. Why are his nipples all the way the fuck down there?

 

[Wand3rlust]

Something looks off with his pecs. Why are his nipples all the way the fuck down there?

*whispers*

Psst. I think its an artistic representation from the bookcover of some werewolf erotica.

Yep. That's  exactly what it is...



*mutters* sometimes you just got to go with it and not overthink it....

 

[LadyLascivious1]

*mutters* sometimes you just got to go with it and not overthink it....

That’s exactly how they end up drooling over catfish

 

[Wand3rlust]

That’s exactly how they end up drooling over catfish

Bless their simple simple hearts.

 

[Apisto42]

Bless their simple simple hearts.

Hey! I notice nipple placement. AI has a hard time with nipples.

 

[LadyLascivious1]

Hey! I notice nipple placement. AI has a hard time with nipples.

It’s the blood deficient humans that have a hard time recognizing other guys

 

[Endless_Night]

That’s exactly how they end up drooling over catfish

Bless their simple simple hearts.

Wow.

 

[Peter_Out]

I realized recently that while I don't fantasize about celebrities per se, I have fantasized myself into movies where I find the character an actor plays sexy.

*looks at sentence*

I have no idea whether that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense to me. I'm similar, although I don't fantasise myself into the film/TV programme/whatever. It's more about the character being portrayed that I find sexy, rather than the person playing that character. I touched on it briefly when talking to Mr. Hot Words (I think) about Wonder Woman. The character as portrayed by Lynda Carter in the 1970s(?) TV series? Hot as anything. Later incarnations portrayed by... somebody... in a film or two more recently? Not a flicker on the Peter peter meter. And similarly when Mr HW posted a pic of Lynda Carter in the buff (LC was in the buff in the photo, not, as far I know, HW was when he posted it!) my body didn't react.

Regarding fantasising about ex-partners, which I think you asked about - for me it's a no. They might have been willing to be part of those fantasies when we were together, but that stopped when we broke up, in my opinion, in the same way that just because they wanted to have sex with me when we were together, that doesn't mean that they'd be willing to do so now. Consent is a per-case basis, not a never-ending all-you-can-eat buffet.

 

[Peter_Out]

Regarding fantasising about ex-partners, which I think you asked about - for me it's a no. They might have been willing to be part of those fantasies when we were together, but that stopped when we broke up, in my opinion, in the same way that just because they wanted to have sex with me when we were together, that doesn't mean that they'd be willing to do so now. Consent is a per-case basis, not a never-ending all-you-can-eat buffet.

I've thought of an exception to my own rule.

My partner was, let's say "astride" me, and it was the most wonderful, loving, sexy experience. I was deliriously happy. Then I woke up. She wasn't there. We'd broken up a few weeks before. There were tears, as was common for me during that period. Apparently my subconscious brain hadn't get the message about not fantasising I was happy though, in those few split seconds when I thought we were together again.

 

[Endless_Night]

Makes perfect sense to me.

Consent is a per-case basis, not a never-ending all-you-can-eat buffet.

This is what prompted the question for me. An ex was once part of a consensual relationship. The line where that begins and ends feels hazy. I'm still not sure where I am on the subject.

I was happy though, in those few split seconds when I thought we were together again.

Ouch. That's tough.