Escaping antizionism

[RobDownSouth]

And while I’m no fan of Bibi, it’s really hard to watch people justify Hamas using women and children as human shields. It’s a tactic they’ve used…forever. They also sent women and children to perform suicide bombing in the second intifada.

"Hamas uses women and children as human shields" has been a trope promoted by Apartheid Israeli propaganda for decades. I wonder if there is any documented history of this? I sincerely doubt it.

In any event, it's a pretty weaksauce justification for slaughtering every man, woman and child who just happened to reside in Gaza. And deliberately bombing hospitals shows the complete lack of humanity in the Zionist soul. Not even the Nazis stooped that low.

 

[phtlc]

In the modern world, force-on-its-own strategies for "winning" are not proving to be effective. Ultimately a negotiated political settlement is the only way to avoid continued mass civilian casualties and break the cycle of revenge/obliteration against the perceived enemy.

I don't recall reading about a negotiated political settlement with Germany or Japan at the end of WW2 and they have been remarkably well behaved ever since.

 

[ll74]

I don't recall reading about a negotiated political settlement with Germany or Japan at the end of WW2 and they have been remarkably well behaved ever since.

It was a negotiated political settlement
You not remembering it probably is because you weren't born yet.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

"Hamas uses women and children as human shields" has been a trope promoted by Apartheid Israeli propaganda for decades. I wonder if there is any documented history of this? I sincerely doubt it.

In any event, it's a pretty weaksauce justification for slaughtering every man, woman and child who just happened to reside in Gaza. And deliberately bombing hospitals shows the complete lack of humanity in the Zionist soul. Not even the Nazis stooped that low.

Documentation of Hamas' use of human shields.

All of chapter 2 covers it, but page 116 is a good place to start.

About 70,000 Gazans died during the 2-year war, not "every man, woman, and child". In fact most of the deaths were military-age men.

 

[CuriousCat89]

"Hamas uses women and children as human shields" has been a trope promoted by Apartheid Israeli propaganda for decades. I wonder if there is any documented history of this? I sincerely doubt it.

In any event, it's a pretty weaksauce justification for slaughtering every man, woman and child who just happened to reside in Gaza. And deliberately bombing hospitals shows the complete lack of humanity in the Zionist soul. Not even the Nazis stooped that low.

Oh so you don’t know what apartheid means either.
And unfortunately it’s not propaganda. Why do you think hostages were living in ‘civilian’ homes?

Also, they didn’t slaughter every man woman and child in Gaza. Perfidy is a war crime. And using human shields isn’t a talking point. It’s policy. Maybe STRATCOM isnt to be believed if your tin foil hat is on too tight. Or legal experts.

The reality is, Israel isn’t going anywhere. And since you have no problem with actual apartheid states like Qatar or Saudi Arabia, pointing to the only Jewish state as ‘the problem’ makes you an antisemite. So unless you have a problems with ACTUAL apartheid theocratic ethnostates (because I’m sure you know what dhimmi means), you’re just a Jew hater and incapable of having any type of discussion about the region you know nothing about.

 

[phtlc]

It was a negotiated political settlement
You not remembering it probably is because you weren't born yet.

Can you please clarify the following;

What were Germany's terms that the allies had to accept? What were Japan's terms that the allies had to accept? You are right I was not born yet and if you were alive during WW2 you have the upper hand here, but my understanding from the history books I read was that while Germany had tried to negotiate the allies had an unconditional surrender policy which Germany eventually accepted. My understanding was that Japan did too.

 

[phtlc]

Russia would like a word

Russia merely bit off more than it could chew

 

[JohnEngelman]

It's an hour-long video but worth watching if you want to understand the mindset of antizionism.

A young Egyptian man who grew up in America was radicalized into hating Israel in his 20's. He even converted to Islam. (He was raised Coptic Christian.) Eventually the constant outpouring of hate toward Israel got to him, and he took a step back.

Now he advocates for Israel. This video is him telling his story.

Sadly the people who most need to see this video won't watch it.

 

[coati]

I don't recall reading about a negotiated political settlement with Germany or Japan at the end of WW2 and they have been remarkably well behaved ever since.

That was then, and this is now.

Germany and Japan were actively trying to take over the world by the time those aggressors triggered a World War. They were not alleged to be "two weeks away" from trying to take over the world. They were not involved in their own civil wars, like Vietnam was when the USA invaded that nation. They were not falsely accused of having enormous stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, as was the case when the USA invaded Iraq on false pretenses. They were not reacting to an aggressor, like Ukraine was following Putin's invasion.

Instead, Germany and Japan were already the clearly identifiable and active nation-state aggressors at a world-wide scale. Hence, the term World War. That extreme situation is NOT a legitimate rationale for capriciously abandoning political negotiations in conflict zones and instead trying to bomb illusive radical ideologies into permanent submission while causing enormous and avoidable loss of life to noncombatants.

The world has changed. The WW2 model does not apply until all options for political settlement have been exhausted.

 

[coati]

Good, because I said nothing in my post that warrants being called a Jew hater. You were responding to my post.

Regarding the Red Cross, it is not true that they never asked to monitor and assess the conditions of the Israelis being held as hostages. They were denied access to the hostages by Hamas. In turn, the Red Cross was denied access to Palestinian prisoners being held by Israel. The Red Cross has limits placed on it by belligerent parties:

Facing flak, Red Cross defends its role in Israel-Hamas war | The Times of Israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/facing-flak-red-cross-defends-its-role-in-israel-hamas-war/amp/

Here is more on the challenges faced regarding humanitarian aid, based on reports by former Biden administration advisors, including some who were unsuccessful at getting Biden to withhold military aid to Israel until the humanitarian crisis was addressed:

'We didn't do enough': How U.S. policy failed Palestinians in Gaza : NPR https://www.npr.org/2025/08/28/nx-s1-5515620/israel-gaza-biden-famine

 

[Lazaran]

Here is more on the challenges faced regarding humanitarian aid, based on reports by former Biden administration advisors, including some who were unsuccessful at getting Biden to withhold military aid to Israel until the humanitarian crisis was addressed:

'We didn't do enough': How U.S. policy failed Palestinians in Gaza : NPR https://www.npr.org/2025/08/28/nx-s1-5515620/israel-gaza-biden-famine

From your own article:

It's a question that David Satterfield, a special envoy for Middle East humanitarian efforts under President Joe Biden, said he and other senior officials got asked many times throughout his tenure.

"Our answer was no, we're not doing enough, we were never able to mobilize a sustained adequate response to all of the humanitarian challenges faced by 2 million civilians in Gaza, in full honesty and modesty. But we prevented famine and starvation," Satterfield said, referring to the current situation under the Trump administration. "And while that may be considered a low bar, that is not an insignificant achievement."



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

 

[coati]

From your own article:

It's a question that David Satterfield, a special envoy for Middle East humanitarian efforts under President Joe Biden, said he and other senior officials got asked many times throughout his tenure.

"Our answer was no, we're not doing enough, we were never able to mobilize a sustained adequate response to all of the humanitarian challenges faced by 2 million civilians in Gaza, in full honesty and modesty. But we prevented famine and starvation," Satterfield said, referring to the current situation under the Trump administration. "And while that may be considered a low bar, that is not an insignificant achievement."



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

It's a long article, involving multiple accounts by those who were involved during that critical year of 2024.

I hope some will read and absorb the whole story that NPR prepared in a professional manner.

 

[Chernosoth]

In some book I read decades ago, probably War and Remembrance, the more complete method of burning was stacking the bodies in layers of logs and probably some liquid fuel. After the fire there's no structure, no chimney, no bones, just ashes. They planned to do that for all bodies and demolish the crematoriums, for a more complete erasure of evidence.

 

[Lazaran]

It's a long article, involving multiple accounts by those who were involved during that critical year of 2024.

I hope some will read and absorb the whole story that NPR prepared in a professional manner.

From your own article:

"I spent as much time and effort on the humanitarian crisis as any other aspect of the war. Every day," Sullivan told NPR in a statement. "It's true I was mindful of what Israel was dealing with but I was demanding and pushing and I believe we made a lot of difference. We prevented famine."

A spokesperson for Blinken said he worked "relentlessly" on humanitarian aid for Gaza.

"He pressed Israel — publicly and privately — to take steps to minimize civilian harm and to uphold its obligations under international humanitarian law. He also sought out, encouraged and listened to different views within the State Department. Any suggestion to the contrary misrepresents both his leadership and the administration's sustained efforts to address the humanitarian crisis," the spokesperson said in a statement to NPR.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[coati]

From your own article:

"I spent as much time and effort on the humanitarian crisis as any other aspect of the war. Every day," Sullivan told NPR in a statement. "It's true I was mindful of what Israel was dealing with but I was demanding and pushing and I believe we made a lot of difference. We prevented famine."

A spokesperson for Blinken said he worked "relentlessly" on humanitarian aid for Gaza.

"He pressed Israel — publicly and privately — to take steps to minimize civilian harm and to uphold its obligations under international humanitarian law. He also sought out, encouraged and listened to different views within the State Department. Any suggestion to the contrary misrepresents both his leadership and the administration's sustained efforts to address the humanitarian crisis," the spokesperson said in a statement to NPR.



We. Told. Them. So.

Indeed, some members of the Biden administration worked very hard to address the humanitarian crisis, but Netanyahu blew them off and obstructed efforts to aid Palestinians. Biden chose not to use his strongest leverage, which was withholding military aid.

By the end of the year, charges were filed against Netanyahu in the International Criminal Court, causing some to lament that the USA had not done enough to modify Netanyahu's behavior.

 

[Lazaran]

Indeed, some members of the Biden administration worked very hard to address the humanitarian crisis, but Netanyahu blew them off and obstructed efforts to aid Palestinians. Biden chose not to use his strongest leverage, which was withholding military aid.

By the end of the year, charges were filed against Netanyahu in the International Criminal Court, causing some to lament that the USA had not done enough to modify Netanyahu's behavior.

Did you even read your own article???



There were legitimate concerns that if the Biden administration pushed too hard, Netanyahu and others in the Israeli government would have shut them out altogether.

Bottom line:

Under EXTREMELY difficult circumstances / conditions, President Biden and his administration achieved about as positive an outcome as one could hope for - unless you’re an unrealistic hater.

And I just hope everyone is happy NOW.





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[coati]

Did you even read your own article???



There were legitimate concerns that if the Biden administration pushed too hard, Netanyahu and others in the Israeli government would have shut them out altogether.

Bottom line:

Under EXTREMELY difficult circumstances / conditions, President Biden and his administration achieved about as positive an outcome as one could hope for - unless you’re an unrealistic hater.

And I just hope everyone is happy NOW.





We. Told. Them. So.

It's not my "own article". I did not write it, but I read it. I agree with NPR's conclusion in their title that the USA could have done more, and that U.S. policy failed Palestinians in Gaza. That does not make me (or NPR) a "hater", as you allege above.

Continuing to arm Netanyahu as he was leveling Gaza, obstructing humanitaian aid, and undergoing an indictment process for war crimes was a moral failing. That was done mainly because of a political decision by Biden during an election year, not because humanitarian aid advocates in his administration feared getting shut out completely. They were already being shut out. Biden decided not to use his strongest leverage.

Despite the fact that I actively supportcd and voted for Harris in that 2024 election, I believe that Biden's decision was a political mistake as well as a moral failing. Establishment Democrats tend to eqivocate and triangulate too much. I advocate within the Party for a more progressive approach.

You don't agree with me. So be it. There is no need to get hysterical and call me a hater just because I don't support your viewpoint on this issue.

 

[LeahWill]

...and that U.S. policy failed Palestinians in Gaza. That does not make me (or NPR) a "hater", as you allege above.

Oh I am pretty sure you will find, for some, it absolutely does...

 

[coati]

Oh I am pretty sure you will find, for some, it absolutely does...

Yes, I have encountered that phenomenon!

That does not deter me from expressing my views.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Indeed, some members of the Biden administration worked very hard to address the humanitarian crisis, but Netanyahu blew them off and obstructed efforts to aid Palestinians. Biden chose not to use his strongest leverage, which was withholding military aid.

By the end of the year, charges were filed against Netanyahu in the International Criminal Court, causing some to lament that the USA had not done enough to modify Netanyahu's behavior.

The failure of the United States to timely intervene in the genocidal ethnic cleansing in Gaza by the rabid Zionist faction in apartheid Israel is America's greatest moral failure in decades.

 

[Lazaran]

It's not my "own article". I did not write it, but I read it. I agree with NPR's conclusion in their title that the USA could have done more, and that U.S. policy failed Palestinians in Gaza. That does not make me (or NPR) a "hater", as you allege above.

Continuing to arm Netanyahu as he was leveling Gaza, obstructing humanitaian aid, and undergoing an indictment process for war crimes was a moral failing. That was done mainly because of a political decision by Biden during an election year, not because humanitarian aid advocates in his administration feared getting shut out completely. They were already being shut out. Biden decided not to use his strongest leverage.

Despite the fact that I actively supportcd and voted for Harris in that 2024 election, I believe that Biden's decision was a political mistake as well as a moral failing. Establishment Democrats tend to eqivocate and triangulate too much. I advocate within the Party for a more progressive approach.

You don't agree with me. So be it. There is no need to get hysterical and call me a hater just because I don't support your viewpoint on this issue.

And now you have misinterpreted my comment AND your own article:

It wasn’t that the Biden administration was worried about being shut out of aid distribution matters, it was the worry that they would be shut out ALTOGETHER, and they wouldn’t be able to influence Netanyahu, etc whatsoever about anything war related - including humanitarian relief.

AND, as your own article made clear, President Biden’s administration made extraordinary efforts to facilitate humanitarian relief while NOT overstepping Israel’s sovereignty when it came to ISRAEL’S decisions on how to prosecute THE WAR THAT HAMAS, ETC STARTED WITH THEIR GENOCIDAL 10/7 RAPE, TORTURE, MURDER, AND KIDNAPPING OPERATION.



And, again: Is everyone happy NOW???



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

 

[Chernosoth]

Youtubes can take a long time to become visible here, so I will also link it: The Dark side of My ULTRA ORTHODOX ChiIdhood in Jerusalem

 

[PersonalFavors]

"Hamas uses women and children as human shields" has been a trope promoted by Apartheid Israeli propaganda for decades. I wonder if there is any documented history of this? I sincerely doubt it.

In any event, it's a pretty weaksauce justification for slaughtering every man, woman and child who just happened to reside in Gaza. And deliberately bombing hospitals shows the complete lack of humanity in the Zionist soul. Not even the Nazis stooped that low.

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-896327