Evidence?

[Spinaroonie]

SD412, you're on that evidence kick again. It's not about evidence. We don't need evidence. This is war. You declare your intention to annhialate us, we annhialate you before you can do the job. Ba dum dum. Case closed.

Kill the bastard.

Yeah, that's a problem... I want to kill the RIGHT bastard. Yes, we have grievances with OBL, but... we should be 100% before we take him out. That way, the people can feel safe (Until Al Qaeda retaliates for his death)

 

[Laurel]

Re: Why is everyone worrying about the details of evidence?

Don't split hairs about avidence. Don't play nicey-nice. This is war.

It is? Who'd Congress declare war on?

 

[Problem Child]

sd412-

He is tied to the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa and the U.S.S. Cole bombings, and many other terrorist acts in the last decade.

Do you really believe he's not a terrorist, or do you post this shit just to look stupid?

 

[Rick DeVille]

The Evidence the US has is on a tape that was TAPED OVER. The video has horrible quality Bin Laden that they can barely tell is him and then it goes into Resivoir Dogs. So, in a country where TV is illegal, they just go into a house and then find a video and decide to watch it and then suddenly there's Osama? Sounds pretty fishy to me. And then for our military to go into every house and jsut watch videos? What kind of organization is that?

But are you paranoid enough

 

[Spinaroonie]

sd412-

He is tied to the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa and the U.S.S. Cole bombings, and many other terrorist acts in the last decade.

Do you really believe he's not a terrorist, or do you post this shit just to look stupid?

I never said that he wasn't a terrorist. I'm saying that our evidence that he was beind Sept. 11 is verrrry shaky. I just want something that really proves it. Everybody thought that either he or Saddam was responsable for what Tim McVeigh did. I think we should be sure we're getting the right guy.

 

[AskADumbSlut]

Even this Dumb Slut knows a little critical thinking is a healthy thing.

 

[Problem Child]

I never said that he wasn't a terrorist. I'm saying that our evidence that he was beind Sept. 11 is verrrry shaky. I just want something that really proves it. Everybody thought that either he or Saddam was responsable for what Tim McVeigh did. I think we should be sure we're getting the right guy.

Just because you don't personally know what the evidence is, doesn't make it shaky. The justice department would be very dumb to lay out all the evidence in full view. There is a slim chance he may actually be tried. How often does the prosecution tell the defense what their evidence is before the trial starts?

I'll call Shrub and ask him to give you a call tonight and tell you about all the evidence though....that way you'll stop worrying that the CIA sniper on the grassy knoll with ties to the mob took down the trade centers with a magic bullet.

P.S. I think the theories about mid-east terrorists and the OK city bombing lasted about a month, or however long it was before they caught McVeigh. The people that thought it was middle-eastern were doing the same thing you're doing...making assumptions without all the facts....and if memory serves, nobody had even really heard of Osama Bin Laden at the time of OKC.

 

[modest mouse]

Run Lemming Run!

 

[Calamity Jane]

I'll call Shrub and ask him to give you a call tonight and tell you about all the evidence though....that way you'll stop worrying that the CIA sniper on the grassy knoll with ties to the mob took down the trade centers with a magic bullet.

could you have him call me too? i just don't think it's possible that the president gets enough phone sex.

 

[Problem Child]

I never said that he wasn't a terrorist. I'm saying that our evidence that he was beind Sept. 11 is verrrry shaky. I just want something that really proves it. Everybody thought that either he or Saddam was responsable for what Tim McVeigh did. I think we should be sure we're getting the right guy.

Do you think Clinton would have launched $70 million worth of cruise missiles at him if they thought he wasn't the guy that blew up the African embassies?

Wait, don't answer that.

Seriously, from all I've read and heard, all the hi-jackers were members of Al-Qa'eda and OBL runs Al Qa'eda. OBL funds Al-Qa'eda. OBL has wished death on the U.S.A more times than I've said fuck on this board. There's no big secret here.

It's silly to say there's no evidence against him for this or many other attacks.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Just because you don't personally know what the evidence is, doesn't make it shaky. The justice department would be very dumb to lay out all the evidence in full view. There is a slim chance he may actually be tried. How often does the prosecution tell the defense what their evidence is before the trial starts?

P.S. I think the theories about mid-east terrorists and the OK city bombing lasted about a month, or however long it was before they caught McVeigh. The people that thought it was middle-eastern were doing the same thing you're doing...making assumptions without all the facts....and if memory serves, nobody had even really heard of Osama Bin Laden at the time of OKC.

True, but it's still the Middle Eastern man who vigilantly hates the US boogey man sort of thing. Still, most public eye trials have the evidence allll layed out before the public before the trial, The OJ trial didn't have any surprise evidence.

I honestly think OBL was behind the whole thing, but, when the US releases evidence to calm those who don't belive it (particularly in the muslim population of the US) it should be more solid than the fact that he was surprised by the amount of damage.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Seriously, from all I've read and heard, all the hi-jackers were members of Al-Qa'eda and OBL runs Al Qa'eda. OBL funds Al-Qa'eda. OBL has wished death on the U.S.A more times than I've said fuck on this board. There's no big secret here.

It's silly to say there's no evidence against him for this or many other attacks.

From what I've heard, I've always heard the word "suspected" in front of the Hi-jacker's names in their relations with Al Qaeda.

Yes, OBL wishes death to the US, but he's not the Alpha and Omega of people who want that. There can be many more groups that want us dead that could've just as easily obtained enough documents and info to pull it down.

 

[Calamity Jane]

True, but it's still the Middle Eastern man who vigilantly hates the US boogey man sort of thing. Still, most public eye trials have the evidence allll layed out before the public before the trial, The OJ trial didn't have any surprise evidence.

For future reference, you may not want to use what was, quite possibly, the worst trial ever conducted as your basis for 'most public eye trials'. Try finding one that was carried out in a remotely professional fashion, and we'll talk.

 

[Rick DeVille]

Can we just kill the guy, destroy his organization and move on? Pass the beer.

 

[Problem Child]

True, but it's still the Middle Eastern man who vigilantly hates the US boogey man sort of thing. Still, most public eye trials have the evidence allll layed out before the public before the trial, The OJ trial didn't have any surprise evidence.

Yeah, you're right, and guess what....The most vocal enemies of the U.S. are coming out of the Mid-East these days, so what's the problem with suspecting them first? The Mid-East is responsible for most of the terrorism that goes on these days. We were stupid idiots for not keeping a closer eyes on shady fuckers coming from the mid-east and it got us two huge buildings knocked down, 5000 people killed, and the pentagon partially destroyed. We have a right to suspect the Mid-East when it comes to terrorism.

And you're very wrong about trials. Neither side tips it's hand if they want to win. Sure they have to submit witness lists and the like, and they vaguely outline how they intend to prove their case, but they don't lay out their evidence until the trial. Ask some of the lawyers here.

I honestly think OBL was behind the whole thing, but, when the US releases evidence to calm those who don't belive it (particularly in the muslim population of the US) it should be more solid than the fact that he was surprised by the amount of damage.

It would be nice if you would make up your mind. On the one hand you say you "honestly" believe OBL did it, and then you turn around and say the evidence is "very shaky". Makes a person think you don't know what you believe.

 

[Spinaroonie]

For future reference, you may not want to use what was, quite possibly, the worst trial ever conducted as your basis for 'most public eye trials'. Try finding one that was carried out in a remotely professional fashion, and we'll talk.

No matter what nation, it'd be held in, if it's our US Justice system, a U.N tribunal, or a muslim holy trial, the media would make an absolute MOCKERY of any trial given to OBL.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I think the theories about mid-east terrorists and the OK city bombing lasted about a month, or however long it was before they caught McVeigh.

The actually caught McVeigh the day of or the day after the bombing for driving without a license plate or something minor like that. I'm pretty sure the authorities knew they were looking for an American very shortly after the attack. The speculation that it was perpetrated by foreign terrorists was mainly in the media shortly after the bombing and was relatively quickly dispelled when contrary evidence came to light.

If you want evidence though, this is the basic case as I see it, (and remember this is just the public evidence. Who knows what kind of confidential evidence exists):

*A multimillionaire with a great professed hatred of America who has been linked to the following acts of terrorism -
1. Bombing of the USS Cole - 17 US servicemen killed
2. Bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania - over 200 people killed
3. Bombing of a Phillipino Airliner
4. Bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.
5. Bombing of US military base in Saudi Arabia in 1996.
6. Attack on US special ops soldiers in Somalia in 1991 - about 20 killed.

In addition, he's repeatedly called all Muslims to join in a "jihad" against America. In 1998 he issued a pseudo-religious edict called a fatwa co-signed by some Muslim clerics to lend religious credibility to his call for jihad.

In the videotape he released the day the bombing campaign began he virtually took credit for the Sept. 11 attacks, celebrating the strike on America and again calling all Muslims to join his war now that the world was divided into "two sides", that of believers and that of infidels. According to a news story I read that in the days shortly prior to Sept. 11, he warned several members of his family that something big was going to happen and advised them to protect themselves.

We now have another videotape in which bin Laden is seen discussing details of the hijackings. Hijackers on all 4 hijacked airplanes have ties to Al Queda. There's also evidence that he's been trying to acquire nuclear, radiation, and biological weapons. He's also been training thousands of militant Muslims in training camps in Afganistan creating the terrorists of the future.

Do we have enough evidence to convict him in a trial? Maybe not, but even if he's NOT responsible for the 9/11 attacks, his past crimes are more than enough reason to support a military campaign to kill him and dismantle his organization. President Clinton thought so - he fired about 75 $2 million tomahawk cruise missiles at him.

I have a feeling there's more than a little additional evidence implicating him that's being kept hidden from us. Intelligence is routinely kept secret to maintain the integrity of its sources. Can you imagine the Allies in 1944 publicizing decoded German communications? The Germans would've changed their codes and additional Allied lives would've surely been lost.

A healthy skepticism is good, but save your skepticism for something plausible. Osama bin Laden is a murdering soulless asshole, whether he organized Sept. 11 or not. The world will be a better place without him and civilization will have set an important precedent regarding what happens to those involved in terrorism.

 

[Calamity Jane]

No matter what nation, it'd be held in, if it's our US Justice system, a U.N tribunal, or a muslim holy trial, the media would make an absolute MOCKERY of any trial given to OBL.

Which is not AT ALL the point I was making. I don't give a rat's ass what the media chooses to cover, or how they print it. It's called freedom of the press.

the media wasn't what set OJ free. the fucking trial was the mockery, they didn't need the meida to help make it so. it was a bad example for you to use.

 

[Problem Child]

No matter what nation, it'd be held in, if it's our US Justice system, a U.N tribunal, or a muslim holy trial, the media would make an absolute MOCKERY of any trial given to OBL.

The media would have access to a "muslim holy trial"? There are muslims somwhere in the world that would actually put OBL on the stand in a "holy trial"? And this would be legitimate?

Do you ever really put any thought into any of your posts?

 

[Spinaroonie]

Yeah, you're right, and guess what....The most vocal enemies of the U.S. are coming out of the Mid-East these days, so what's the problem with suspecting them first? The Mid-East is responsible for most of the terrorism that goes on these days. We were stupid idiots for not keeping a closer eyes on shady fuckers coming from the mid-east and it got us two huge buildings knocked down, 5000 people killed, and the pentagon partially destroyed. We have a right to suspect the Mid-East when it comes to terrorism.

And you're very wrong about trials. Neither side tips it's hand if they want to win. Sure they have to submit witness lists and the like, and they vaguely outline how they intend to prove their case, but they don't lay out their evidence until the trial. Ask some of the lawyers here.

It would be nice if you would make up your mind. On the one hand you say you "honestly" believe OBL did it, and then you turn around and say the evidence is "very shaky". Makes a person think you don't know what you believe.

I'm not saying don't blame the Middle East entirely, I'm just saying that we should be sure we have the right Middle Eastener, if it was a ME'er. And Don't pump up the stats, The newest figures have the death toll a skooch above 4K. What I'm saying isn't about race, it's just that we should be sure that we got the right person. If we didn't then we're wide open for another huge strike.

I have made up my mind, but, I'm looking at things objectively. Letting my ideas not cloud my perecption. I think he did it. Can I prove it? No. Can the US prove it? I'm not so sure. I think a smoking gun would reassure everyone.

 

[Problem Child]

Leave it to Ollie to actually do some research. Good job Doc.

 

[Spinaroonie]

The media would have access to a "muslim holy trial"? There are muslims somwhere in the world that would actually put OBL on the stand in a "holy trial"? And this would be legitimate?

Do you ever really put any thought into any of your posts?

That's what the Muslim nations are crying out for. They think that an innocent OBL couldn't find justice in an American court. And they're right. Will it happen? Hell no. But if it were to happen, the media would find a way in. Telephoto lenses, hidden microphones. The media is a swarm of cockroaches. One will find it's way in.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Do we have enough evidence to convict him in a trial? Maybe not, but even if he's NOT responsible for the 9/11 attacks, his past crimes are more than enough reason to support a military campaign to kill him and dismantle his organization. President Clinton thought so - he fired about 75 $2 million tomahawk cruise missiles at him.

Osama bin Laden is a murdering soulless asshole, whether he organized Sept. 11 or not. The world will be a better place without him and civilization will have set an important precedent regarding what happens to those involved in terrorism.

Exactly.

 

[Spinaroonie]

We now have another videotape in which bin Laden is seen discussing details of the hijackings. Hijackers on all 4 hijacked airplanes have ties to Al Queda. There's also evidence that he's been trying to acquire nuclear, radiation, and biological weapons. He's also been training thousands of militant Muslims in training camps in Afganistan creating the terrorists of the future.

A healthy skepticism is good, but save your skepticism for something plausible. Osama bin Laden is a murdering soulless asshole, whether he organized Sept. 11 or not. The world will be a better place without him and civilization will have set an important precedent regarding what happens to those involved in terrorism.

I didn't say the man wasn't a killer or a terrorist. I never said that man was a saint or anything. I'm just saying there are many other factions that could've done it. Should we have responded better to Terrorist attacks dating back to the days of Carter? You betcha.

I haven't heard of the other videotape which he lays out the details. I've just heard of the one that somebody taped Resivoir Dogs over... wonder what language it's in...

 

[Problem Child]

I'm not saying don't blame the Middle East entirely, I'm just saying that we should be sure we have the right Middle Eastener, if it was a ME'er. And Don't pump up the stats, The newest figures have the death toll a skooch above 4K. What I'm saying isn't about race, it's just that we should be sure that we got the right person. If we didn't then we're wide open for another huge strike.

I have made up my mind, but, I'm looking at things objectively. Letting my ideas not cloud my perecption. I think he did it. Can I prove it? No. Can the US prove it? I'm not so sure. I think a smoking gun would reassure everyone.

"I'm not saying don't blame the Middle East entirely..."

1) So we should blame the middle east entirely? Make some sense dude...you're fucking loopy. I said we should keep a close eye on suspicious people from the mid-east, that's all.

2) Don't get self-righteous with me, sd. I wasn't trying to "pump up the stats", you shitbird. If you add up all the people in the towers, and the pentagon, and the planes, I believe it come closer to 5000 than 4000 anyway. Besides, even if it was only a hundred it stops becoming a numbers game. Stop trying to score points on technicalities because you have no argument.

3) You're not sure of anything, so quit guessing.