Evidence?

[Purple Haze]

Re: so Hazie..

What's to stop these people from infiltrating the system and posing as employees in order to plant bombs, etc?

Not a damn thing, really. That's why a "War On Terrorism" can go on forever, there are always new terrorists to chase around. You can level the entire Middle East if you want, we have plenty of terrorists in other countries to pick up the slack. I'm not opposed to tracking down and punishing the human shit that's responsible, and I'm hoping that happens. I am just skeptical, George W. could say the terrorists are in Sweden, and there would be enough angry arm-chair generals to support him. This concerns me, and if it doesn't concern you a little, it should. I didn't trust politicians before September 11, I have very little reason to suddenly expect them to have changed that much. This is the last you'll get out of me on this subject, anything else will be labled un-American by someone here.

Here come the flames......

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: so Hazie..

This is the last you'll get out of me on this subject, anything else will be labled un-American by someone here.

It is far more UnAmerican to blindly follow one's government. I hope that I haven't implied that people don't have the right to question the powers that be. I personally think Shrub is an idiot. But he reacted in the way that I think he should have, and I support our military activity. That's not the same as supporting him out of a false sense of patriotism.

 

[Purple Haze]

Okay, I lied.

To succeed and to survive, we must think like they think, administer justice as they administer justice. A state of war exists between us. Just kill the bastards on sight.

Yeah that's right, be on the same level as some uneducated, brainwashed butt-fuck with the values of a filthy sewer rodent. Sounds good to me, Yogi. Let's go sign up, I know you were getting tired of bad cartoons.

Heavens to Mergatroid.

 

[Spinaroonie]

However, I support him 100% on his response to September 11th. Why? Because our country was attacked and it is my patriotic duty to support our President in leading our battle against a very dangerous enemy. I still don't like his domestic and economic policies, but that's OK. I think he is doing a great job in countering terrorism, a

Your blind faith will leave you blind. Just imagine for one second that Bush is barking up the wrong tree? Where does that leave us? That more than gives the many terrorist cells excellent evidence that the US is the bully of the world.

 

[WriterDom]

Your blind faith will leave you blind. Just imagine for one second that Bush is barking up the wrong tree? Where does that leave us? That more than gives the many terrorist cells excellent evidence that the US is the bully of the world.

You judge a tree by its fruit. This Scum you are defending was already on the FBI's ten most wanted list before 9/11.

 

[Spinaroonie]

You judge a tree by its fruit. This Scum you are defending was already on the FBI's ten most wanted list before 9/11.

Why doesn't anybody get it? I'm saying that YES he is a terrorist, but there are enough people who hate the US that any number of them could have done it.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Why doesn't anybody get it? I'm saying that YES he is a terrorist, but there are enough people who hate the US that any number of them could have done it.

And most of us are saying that it doesn't fucking matter whether he was responsible for 9/11. He's responsible for enough to make the search for him justifiable. If we should realize he didn't do it, I'd still want him out of the picture, along with whoever was responsible.

 

[Spinaroonie]

And most of us are saying that it doesn't fucking matter whether he was responsible for 9/11. He's responsible for enough to make the search for him justifiable. If we should realize he didn't do it, I'd still want him out of the picture, along with whoever was responsible.

But wouldn't it make you feel better if Bush showed us all some 100% hardcore, OBL-did-it evidence?

 

[SINthysist]

All he had to do was look at the evidence Somolia that Somolia had that Bill Clinton turned down along with the offer of bin bin baby's head on a platter.

Most of these guys were involved with the Abu Nidal (sp?) network, and when Al Queda is crushed they will move on.

You see, SD does have a point, these guys are not to blame, it is the states that sponser them, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, et.al.

He just obviously thinks it is a tactically bad manuever to try to cut the heads of the hydra off when we should be going for the heart of the beast.

 

[Calamity Jane]

But wouldn't it make you feel better if Bush showed us all some 100% hardcore, OBL-did-it evidence?

Would you believe the evidence? Or would you start a new thread about how the government conspired to falsify evidence in order to justify hunting Bin Laden down?

Again. Not all that important which acts of terrorism he's responsible for, I want him removed from the planet.

 

[Guest]

well sd412, how the hell do you feel now that you've seen the tape!!!!!

He sits there and explains how he thought only a couple of floor would be damaged do to the jet fuel, but then he was extremely happy when both buildings collapsed.

Now its time for you to admit how wrong you were and to support Bush and the rest of America in bringing a swift and just end to this eveil man and his terrorist organization.

 

[Spinaroonie]

well sd412, how the hell do you feel now that you've seen the tape!!!!!

He sits there and explains how he thought only a couple of floor would be damaged do to the jet fuel, but then he was extremely happy when both buildings collapsed.

Now its time for you to admit how wrong you were and to support Bush and the rest of America in bringing a swift and just end to this eveil man and his terrorist organization.

They didn't show it on the news here. I'll take a look at the 5:30 and 6:00 and tell you what I think. If it's good evidence then I'll simply say so. However, what I was saying before was that the news had a tape where somebody comes up to him and tells him about it and he says "cool" . If what you're saying is true, than that'd be MUCH better.

However,do you believe that our military is going over there and watching EVERY video tape they can find?

btw, if you want to lambaste me, it's more sincere when you're registered.

 

[SINthysist]

Hey, SD - UPI says...

In Tape, bin Laden Owns Up to Sept. 11
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Dec. 13, 2001

WASHINGTON – Saudi terrorism suspect Osama bin Laden is seen acknowledging his role in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on America – even saying he had figured the number of deaths expected – in a videotape released Thursday by the Pentagon.
"We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all ... due to my experience in this field I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the areas where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we hoped for," bin Laden said.

The videotape, which the Pentagon said was found in a house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, after anti-Taliban forces took the town, shows bin Laden after what is believed to have been a business dinner in Kandahar in southern Afghanistan.

He said he had been notified the Thursday before the attack – Sept. 6 – that the operation was planned for the 11th.

An unidentified sheikh meeting with bin Laden said since the attack he lives "in happiness, happiness ... I have not experienced or felt in a long time."

Bin Laden said some of the terrorist attackers did not initially know they were on a suicide mission but that Mohammed Atta knew and was leading the group.

None of the pilots of the four hijacked planes knew any of the other 15 hijackers prior to the day they joined together for the attack, bin Laden told his colleagues.

"All they knew was that they had a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know about the operation, not even one letter," he said. "But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes."

"Those who were trained to fly did not know the others," he said.

Bin Laden said the acts of terrorism overshadowed "all other speeches made everywhere else in the world" and would be understood by Arabs, non-Arabs "even by Chinese."

The white-turbaned sheikh expressed surprise and wonderment at the brashness of the operation.

"A plane crashing into a tall building was out of anyone's imagination," the sheikh said. "This was a great job. He was one of the pious men in the organization."

Bin Laden and the sheikh exchanged numerous stories about supposedly prophetic dreams various acquaintances had had involving airplanes, New York, Washington and plane crashes.

Bin Laden joked that he began to get nervous the operation would be compromised by the number of people who were dreaming of it without any direct knowledge.

"We were at the camp of one of the brothers guards at Kandahar. This brother belonged to the majority of the group. He drew close and told me that he saw in a dream, a tall building in American and in the same dream he saw Muhktar teaching them how to play karate," bin Laden said. He laughs: "At that point I was worried that maybe the secret would be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dream. So I closed the subject. I told him if he sees another dream not to tell anybody because people will be upset with him."

An unidentified voice on the tape then recounts his own dream of two planes hitting buildings.

Bin Laden explains that he told the 50 or 60 people that listened with him to the radio as the attack unfolded to be patient after the first plane hit, because more were coming.

"I was sitting with Dr. Ahmad Abu-al [Khair]. Immediately we heard the news that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. We turned the radio station to the news from Washington. The news continued and no mention of the attack until the end. ... After a little while they announced that another plane had hit the World Trade Center. The brothers who heard the news were overjoyed by it," bin Laden said.

The sheikh then says he was receiving congratulatory phone calls all day long for the attack. Americans were terrified "a coup was coming," he said.

He then hints at a future attack.

"Thank Allah America came out of its caves. We hit her the first hit and the next one will hit her with the hands of the believers. The good believers, the strong believers," the sheikh said.

The sheikh told bin Laden that the mosques in Saudi Arabia, Islam's holy land, support the attack, saying that one religious leader, Sheikh Al-Bahrani (phonetic spelling) gave a "good sermon" in his class at the exact time of the attack, suggesting that Saudi clerics were aware the attacks were coming.

Another religious leader, Sheikh Sulayman 'Ulwan, issued a fatwa on a Koran radio station saying that the victims at the Pentagon and World Trade Center were not innocent.

The sheikh also said after the attack people were lining up at mosques to become Islamic.

"People now are supporting us more, even those who did not support us in the past, support us more now," the sheikh said. "Everybody praises what you did, the great action you did, which was first and foremost by the grace of Allah. This is the guidance of Allah and the blessed fruit of jihad."

The sheikh explained that he was smuggled in to the area to meet with bin Laden and expected to be brought to a cave rather than to the "clean and comfortable" guest house.

Bin Laden variously quotes incomplete scripture from the Koran and poetry.

Bahrani was detained for interrogation after he signed a fatwa, or religious declaration.

At least five bearded men were at the meting, including bin Laden, the sheikh, Ayman al Zawahiri and the unidentified cameraman. Al Zawahiri, bin Laden's personal physician and second in command. Zawahiri is rumored to have been wounded in a U.S. attack on Kandahar earlier this month.

President Bush was informed of the tapes existence on Nov. 29 and viewed portions of it on Nov. 30 at a morning intelligence meeting, according to White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer.

The video begins with the end of bin Laden's remarks at a business dinner in Kandahar because the amateur photographer ran out of tape and rewound it to capture the tail end of bin Laden's remarks. Therefore, the chronological beginning of bin Laden's remarks is missing.

The transcript was put into correct chronological order, beginning at the meeting at the end of the tape and then moving forward.

According to the Pentagon, "The tape was released with an English translation and English subtitling, prepared independently by George Michael, translator, Diplomatic Language Services; and Kassem M. Wahba, Arabic language program coordinator, School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University. They collaborated on their translation and compared it with translations done by the U.S. government for consistency. There were no inconsistencies in the translations."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said the government conducted numerous scientific tests on the videotape comparing bin Laden's image and voice to tapes he has personally released and each test revealed the videotape to be authentic.

The translators provided both a translation and subtitles to the tape, which jumps from bin Laden to footage of an American helicopter that was downed in Ghazni province, and then al Qaida fighters brandishing rifles and chanting in prayer in an open field.

Copyright 2001 by United Press International. All rights reserved.

 

[Spinaroonie]

You see, SD does have a point, these guys are not to blame, it is the states that sponser them, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, et.al.

He just obviously thinks it is a tactically bad manuever to try to cut the heads of the hydra off when we should be going for the heart of the beast.

That's not what I've been saying at all.

 

[SINthysist]

At least I saved you the trouble of waiting to see it on TV!

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Hey, SD - UPI says...

In Tape, bin Laden Owns Up to Sept. 11
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Dec. 13, 2001

Copyright 2001 by United Press International. All rights reserved.

Alright, that's pretty good. I still wanna check it out to see the quality and all, but yeah.

The news misportrayed it to me, they said all he did was say that he was surprised at the damage, which, of course, everybody was. The dreams and his 'joke' and details of the 'op' are pretty much as close to a smoking gun as we'll get.

Still, it's interesting all the intolerance you get when you go outside of the norm's thinking.

ATG.

 

[Spinaroonie]

At least I saved you the trouble of waiting to see it on TV!

Still gonna check it out. I want to see if it's OBL, I mean if it's grainy and you can't tell who the people are in the tape then... then it becomes pretty sketchy. But if I see the familiar face then I'll agree.

 

[SINthysist]

Heard the reports that he's [bin bin bayby] in Pakistan, his right-hand man is still alive, and gave an interview yesterday to an arabic-british publication?

Which one escapes me now...




You should read LeBoutilliers current rant against George Tenet, his incompitence, and why Bush won't fire him. Only on Newsmax.com. Where enquiring minds want to know.

 

[SINthysist]

PS

I get a lot of grief for going outside of the norms. Don't let it get to you and keep up the good fight. No matter which side you're on.



My goal is to gain converts!

 

[Guest]

newsmax? where retards dare to grow. what a joke! i guess you get your groceries at 7-11 and your shoes at walmart.

 

[SINthysist]

Obviously an embarrassed Salon.com liberal on the attack. Nice style. Hooded and all, just like the Clan, or an Hamas/Hezbollah bomber.

 

[Guest]

embarrassed? is that why you change your name every two weeks, embarrrassment? or are you trying to keep up with those who put you on ignore for your racist stupid hateful accusations?

Obviously an embarrassed Salon.com liberal on the attack. Nice style. Hooded and all, just like the Clan, or an Hamas/Hezbollah bomber.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Saw it... Yup, pretty good evidence. I just hope the translation is correct.

 

[REDWAVE]

Let's put the biggest terrorist of all on trial

I saw the famous videotape, and if it's genuine, and if the translation is correct, then ObL (if that's him even, and not an actor dressed up as him) does say some things which suggest he knew about the attack ahead of time. However, many parts of the tape are inaudible, and at no point does he clearly and unambiguously say he was reponsible for it. Overall, I think it's pretty dubious evidence, and there are serious questions about the chain of custody, how this video was just lying around in a private home in Jalalabad, etc. And there's no way he could get a fair trial in the U.S., because of all the prejudicial pretrial publicity. I'm all for putting him on trial before an truly neutral and impartial international tribunal, if such can be found. But on one condition only-- that the world's biggest and most despicable terrorist, Dubya, also be put on trial. The charges?

-- Usurping power and stealing the Presidency
-- Serial killing of over 100 people while Governor of Texas
-- Mass murder of Afghani civilians and Taliban prisoners
-- Attempted destruction of democracy and imposition of a police state here in the U.S.
(He's probably committed more crimes, but that'll do for starters.)

After all, fair is fair, don't you think?

 

[SINthysist]

REDWAVE, you crack me up.

I change names, but never hide who I am, unlike you. Hell some even hide behind Laurel's skirts.

Reponding to me can only build my credibility.