Face Your Fear

[~Haze~]

I'm not a psychologist and I I don't every fear has to have a literal, rational cause. In fact, I'm sure of it. Nothing triggered my fear. At least I think.

But I do think I can overcome my fears - whatever they might be. I think that most people can get over their fears with the right... guidance.

I don't think you were born claustrophobic. Most children I know feel more comfortable in a closed, confined space. I am guessing that at some point... as a baby(?), you might have felt comforted in small, tight, spaces. Especially in their mother's loving arms?

Now that I think about it, there was a root cause for my fear and it all has to do with control. I don't relinquish control easily... or comfortably.

My fear had more to do with the thought of being in a situation where I am not only, not in control, but I am in a situation where there is very little that I could do to take control, and that used to just freak me out.

 

[katt_g]

i have a very intense fear of heights, which i understand is very common but intellectually i see to be quite irrational. i have tried for many years to "face" it, which has had varying but only very modest success.

it is often so hard to explain such a thing to those who do not experience it. the friends and family who think i can somehow control and STOP the responses i get. the sweaty palms, racing heart, dizziness, vertigo...all are COMPLETELY unconscious. i have even tried to tell myself how safe i am, to talk myself out of feeling that way. but you know what? it just hasn't worked.

Master tells me i should know i am safe with him...and oddly enough, the closest i ever came to controlling the physiologic chaos was when he talked to me. calmly, quietly he talked me through it. it didn't erase all of it, but was the most effective "treatment" i have experienced in 40+ years of having this really annoying phobia.

 

[JMohegan]

I'd by lying if I said this wasn't one of the reasons I am so intrigued. I don't think anyone is going to disagree that someone who gets in your head is going to trigger the most intense orgasms. It's more than the sex. It's deeper than that. I really do enjoy getting to know someone and understanding the how they think, what they think, what makes them feel safe, secure, loved, deserted, resented, whatever.

I think you can get to know a lot about someone by understanding their fears. What they're afraid of, why they're afraid, what triggers the emotional response and reactions.

When you're getting to know someone, a quick talker can feed you any line they want. Get them thinking about what they fear most, and their responses are going to be a lot more genuine and sincere. What better way to get to know someone?

I'm a sadist. My interest isn't even remotely that noble.

ITW's post aroused me because I instantly imagined myself standing over a bound female, with a daddy longlegs in the palm of my hand.

Fear..... soooo delicious.

Not too much, of course, or the trauma/rage engendered destroys the trust at the base of the relationship. As you say, it's important to know one's partner.

No one would be surprised to learn that woman are attracted to a man who can make her safe. If you can understand someone's fears, you can understand what makes them feel safe. Safe = all kinds of warm and tingly. And, as a man, it's gratifying (and hugely arousing) to make a woman feel safe in my arms.

He who maketh the spider come also taketh the spider away.

Also delicious..... the relief/hugging/warm tingles etc. when it's over.

 

[LilyBart]

Is there always an identifiable "why?"

In my case, I really don't think so. I was just born claustrophobic. Like being born with a literal brain, tall genes, great hand/eye coordination, and an appalling lack of artistic skill. It is what it is, and my skepticism about the "face your fear" thing stems from the fact that I don't believe it can be erased or reversed.

Not at all.

I think it's more retraining your brain rather than erasing a fear. Your brain is thinking, oh God I cannot be stuck in a small place, something terrible will happen! So by sticking yourself in a tight space over and over again, your brain learns there is nothing particularly to fear about being stuck in a tight space.

ITW, I have to disagree. At least on the fear of closed spaces. I'm with JM on this as a congenital issue. Claustrophobia is almost debilitating, and forcing experiences in enclosed or restricted spaces is, in my opinion, harsh enough to induce a really bad health event.

However I have had a few fears present themselves later in life. Primarily a fear of heights. Especially rising, curvy exit ramps. I keep making myself drive over them, but neither I nor the irritated drivers behind me (who have to slow down to 5 mph) are making any progress.

On the other hand, there are fears that can be dealt with by exposure. For me, anyway, public speaking was one. I was able to get over that fear by self-enforced exposure. I'm not sure if it would have worked for someone else, but it did for me. Others may not benefit from this approach.

I have no interest in exploring a resolution to my fear of spiders.

Needles don't scare me at all.

Disclaimer: I do not represent all of humankind. Your fears may react differently.

 

[Netzach]

i have a very intense fear of heights, which i understand is very common but intellectually i see to be quite irrational. i have tried for many years to "face" it, which has had varying but only very modest success.

it is often so hard to explain such a thing to those who do not experience it. the friends and family who think i can somehow control and STOP the responses i get. the sweaty palms, racing heart, dizziness, vertigo...all are COMPLETELY unconscious. i have even tried to tell myself how safe i am, to talk myself out of feeling that way. but you know what? it just hasn't worked.

Master tells me i should know i am safe with him...and oddly enough, the closest i ever came to controlling the physiologic chaos was when he talked to me. calmly, quietly he talked me through it. it didn't erase all of it, but was the most effective "treatment" i have experienced in 40+ years of having this really annoying phobia.

Fear of heights is, if you ask me, the *logical* phobia. It's everyone else who's defying logic.

 

[Netzach]

I'm a sadist. My interest isn't even remotely that noble.

ITW's post aroused me because I instantly imagined myself standing over a bound female, with a daddy longlegs in the palm of my hand.

Fear..... soooo delicious.

Not too much, of course, or the trauma/rage engendered destroys the trust at the base of the relationship. As you say, it's important to know one's partner.

He who maketh the spider come also taketh the spider away.

Also delicious..... the relief/hugging/warm tingles etc. when it's over.

I think if you are getting gracious hugs when it's all over you're not actually dealing with an honest to God clinical definition phobia, which is really something that other person has to decide he/she is on a mission to get over and work on themselves. The more someone tried to talk me onto ladders the less it would have worked, in a general vanilla sense, but I think I could scramble up one ok if T was like "I'll screw you only when you do that" or something. The simple fact that well, part of my paycheck involved being on top of a ladder, so be it, is a motivator.

I'd never have taken a 15% travel by air job though, it simply would NOT HAPPEN for me. I think the ladder issue would be fear/aversion, the plane thing, phobia. No kind of incentive will make me do it, outside my own frustration with the limitation weighed against how likely it is to induce a major Crohn's event from the stress.

I think phobias are those incredibly entrenched things. I'm liable to get the hugging response after making M kneel in front of me in front of other people and kiss a shoe, or something like that - fears, sure. But I don't think I would ever, EVER, get the same response from making him get closer to a spider than he himself has decided to get.

I was very proud of him for being willing to capture one in an empty plastic tube from some beads, photograph it and fling it outside after we determined it's not poisonous. But handle it? Nothing good would ever come of that.

 

[graceanne]

I'm phobic of *deep breath*

heights
dentists
the toilet flushing in the middle of the night (don't know why)
bridges (related to the heights thing)
planes (also related to the heights thing)
the dark
deep water (namely putting my head under it)
water I can't see through


I'm afraid of:
needles
centipedes
public speaking
tight spaces

There is a difference between a fear and a phobia. I can be sleep walking and you still won't get me to go outside, because it's dark out there. If I'm alone in a bathroom I leave the stall door open, but if people are there I lock the door and I'm okay.

Interesting enough, I used to be phobic of needles. Years of illness and several extended hospital stays have taken that to just a fear. As long as I don't SEE the needle, I'm good. There is probably something to the whole facing your fear thing, but I don't care. I have no interest in doing what it takes to face my fears; they don't interfere with my life enough for me to care.

 

[JMohegan]

I think if you are getting gracious hugs when it's all over you're not actually dealing with an honest to God clinical definition phobia, which is really something that other person has to decide he/she is on a mission to get over and work on themselves.

You're right.

And someone with honest to God clinical arachnophobia would be no fun for spider play, because there'd be no way to do it without shredding trust.

 

[Aquila1]

1) I'm scared of heights - I was once forced to abseil down a cliff and when I got to the bottom I punched the instructor in the side of head for making me feel stupid and incompetent. The endorphins obviously didn't kick in in quite the way he thought they would

2) I am scared of being burned in a fire - sometimes I wonder if I met my demise that way in a previous life

3) I am scared of confined spaces as well. I discovered this when I went spelunking with friends in a limestone cave system and had to squeeze through narrow passages on my stomach. Even thinking about it now makes my insides churn and I start sweating and shaking

4) I am scared of balloons - seriously. As soon as someone starts blowing one up I have to leave the room. I can cope with those balloon animal-maker guys though - for some reason they are OK.

On the positive side - for many years I was scared of a creature endemic to NZ called a Weta. They can get pretty large, and I lived in the bush where we got them all the time.
A good friend who worked as a wildlife officer signed me up to a 2 day volunteer workshop where I learned all about the little critters and helped to transfer a colony of them to a new wildlife park. Amazingly, by the end of day two I was picking them up and letting them walk on my arms. I think it was the process of desensitizing through gradual exposure, combined with being given lots of factual information that worked for me.


Weta (this is a small one)


http://www.bearsinthecity.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/weta.jpg

 

[Cattypuss]

I have had two full-blown phobias in my life. Driving a car, and moths and butterflies.

I conquered the driving phobia two years ago at the age of 40 - I learned to drive, passed my test (stick-shift - I thought if a job's worth doing it's worth doing to the fullest extent), and bought a car. Oddly, I now love driving so much that I sometimes go for a drive now for no other reason than to relax. And last year I drove the most difficult road in England (the Hardknott mountain pass).

Butterflies and moths are up next. Shudder.

But it has felt BLOODY good to conquer my lifelong driving phobia. And to have conquered it with a vengeance. From being, literally, a quivering, hyperventilating, weeping wreck during my first few driving lessons.

 

[PertPerth]

I have all those social fears - public speaking, being put in the 'spotlight' etc. So, when I was 26 I entered myself into a amature bikini comp. NEVER AGAIN. Not only was I the oldest (all the rest of the girls were 18) but I was the biggest! It really helped and hindered my self esteem at the same time. I'm glad I did it, but NEVER again.

I also have huge (HUGE) issues around control (hence my switch personality). I fear not having control when I don't trust the person who is in control. I'd rather be in control if I don't trust the person. Having said that, I fear my judgment of the person is not always accurate. This, of course, means that I fear planes and other forms of public transport (For example - how the fuck do I know if the pilot doesn't know what he's doing? It freaks me out everytime I step onto the plane.)

I used to be afraid of needles, but not so much anymore. Mainly because I have had SO many (and bloodtests) that I realise that the people who do it are very good at it! In fact, my last jab was from a student doctor...I think she was more nervous that I was.

I have a very long list of things I'm afraid of, but I'm too afraid to post them.

 

[intothewoods]

ITW, I have to disagree. At least on the fear of closed spaces. I'm with JM on this as a congenital issue. Claustrophobia is almost debilitating, and forcing experiences in enclosed or restricted spaces is, in my opinion, harsh enough to induce a really bad health event.

However I have had a few fears present themselves later in life. Primarily a fear of heights. Especially rising, curvy exit ramps. I keep making myself drive over them, but neither I nor the irritated drivers behind me (who have to slow down to 5 mph) are making any progress.

On the other hand, there are fears that can be dealt with by exposure. For me, anyway, public speaking was one. I was able to get over that fear by self-enforced exposure. I'm not sure if it would have worked for someone else, but it did for me. Others may not benefit from this approach.

I have no interest in exploring a resolution to my fear of spiders.

Needles don't scare me at all.

Disclaimer: I do not represent all of humankind. Your fears may react differently.

I would be interested to read how successful this type of therapy is. I assume most people with a fear of spiders don't try it, since you can live with a fear of spiders. If your claustrophobia was not severe enough to preclude you from, say, riding in elevators or other things that come up pretty frequently, there's no real reason to seek treatment. I watched another show where some pretty severe phobias were treated, and it looked harrowing to be subjected to the very thing you're afraid of. On the other hand, it was done very very gradually. Again, I only watched a few television shows on it. I'm no expert.

To Netz - of course I was being flip when I said the person was thrown on the plane. There was a lot of talk therapy that went along with riding the plane.

 

[neci]

fears...
i am afraid of heights. edges with no railings, cliffs, driving on a windy road on a cliff...
i also get anxious in large crowds. it's not the small space that scares me, but the feeling of being crowded in. i don't really like clubs or crowded bars for that reason. i don't have a problem with calm orderly crowds, but when there is a lot of noise, it can really get to me.
i have a fear of failure. it's more letting people down, or not living up to expectations that i have set for myself, or that others have set for me.

 

[Netzach]

I would be interested to read how successful this type of therapy is. I assume most people with a fear of spiders don't try it, since you can live with a fear of spiders. If your claustrophobia was not severe enough to preclude you from, say, riding in elevators or other things that come up pretty frequently, there's no real reason to seek treatment. I watched another show where some pretty severe phobias were treated, and it looked harrowing to be subjected to the very thing you're afraid of. On the other hand, it was done very very gradually. Again, I only watched a few television shows on it. I'm no expert.

To Netz - of course I was being flip when I said the person was thrown on the plane. There was a lot of talk therapy that went along with riding the plane.

Ah, well I've heard of weirder. Wasn't there some dude who went up on flights with one of those passes for like a month to get over his phobia or something?

I love that whenever some terrorist event raises SUCH PROFOUND CLUSTERFUCK no one even looks at me like I'm nuts when I tell them I don't fly, I have to admit. People are just like "oh you hate being stranded and shit too."

Cattypuss, funny. Butterflies = fine by me. Moths = revulsion, omg, get it away. I have no idea why the chauvenism on my part, they both have that same awful flight motion of unpredictability. I think it's the hairy antenna and sometimes incredibly startling *size* of moths.

I have a *thing*about bugs big enough that they would crunch if I killed them - I don't want to kill them, I don't want to be around someone killing them, I'd rather turn my head and pretend I didn't see them.

 

[Cattypuss]

Cattypuss, funny. Butterflies = fine by me. Moths = revulsion, omg, get it away. I have no idea why the chauvenism on my part, they both have that same awful flight motion of unpredictability. I think it's the hairy antenna and sometimes incredibly startling *size* of moths. .

I must admit that if someone said to me, "You have to spend ten seconds locked in a room with either a moth or a butterfly", I would NOT be a happy Cattypuss, but I would choose the butterfly every time.

 

[ownedsubgal]

cool thread JMohegan.

i just had to look up to make certain i wasn't confusing good old-fashioned fear with phobia:

–noun
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

so it seems that what differentiates a phobia from a fear is that a phobia is an irrational or illogical fear...something which common sense or intellect will tell us, there is no reason to fear, and yet we do anyway, strongly.

like Cattypus, i've had a lifelong phobia of driving. i have never driven and do not forsee this changing at any point.

i also have social anxiety which can be crippling at times...it is hard to describe exactly the fear there....it is the fear of crowds, yes, but it goes beyond that. i fear my "differentness" from the masses, sticking out like a neon pink sign. all my life, i've felt this strong sense of abnormality, of freakishness, and being surrounded by people who all so comfortably and unconsciously fit in, who just go about their everyday lives and go to work and the corner store and the bank and happy hour with friends and take a quick peak at those cute shoes at the mall...all these "normal" people...just amplifies my feelings of freakishness. it kills my self-esteem, makes me feel like some terrible mistake was made by placing me on this planet with all these decent normal folk, which makes me wish i could just be erased, voided, or better yet never existed in the first place.

so it is not that i fear public places themselves, or even people at large. i fear that i am not one of them, never will be one of them, and therefore just don't belong. to this day i've never met anyone who truly, truly understands this phobia, but it is what makes it impossible for me to ever successfully function out and about in the world. being submissive on top of all that, is no help either.

 

[BiBunny]

I think it would be the other way around... if anything. Fear of public speaking would include symptoms that are common in other forms of social phobias.? I ask because I know people who don't show any form of SAD but could never get up in front of a crowd.

I'm asking, not to instigate (well, a little instigation never hurt anyone), but because I am genuinely curious. Especially because I find myself being asked to speak to large groups with some frequency now.



This wasn't my original source. I read what I posted a few months ago and I'm pretty confident that I remember it correctly. I just googled it and found this....


and this

There are two different uses of the word "phobia" here.

Irrational, sustained fear of a single thing, e.g., public speaking, is a phobia in the actual clinical definition of the world. Social phobia is a term used interchangeably with Social Anxiety Disorder, probably because the initials for Social Anxiety Disorder and Seasonal Affective Disorder are the same, and the alphabet soup of acronyms gets confusing after awhile.

Thus, a person with Social Anxiety Disorder may and probably will have a fear of public speaking, but each person who has a specific phobia about public speaking does not have Social Anxiety Disorder. The disorder has a set of symptoms and diagnostic criteria associated with it. Fear of public speaking is just fear of public speaking.

I apologize if that didn't help any, but I really don't want to talk about it anymore. I suggest you read OSG's excellent post.

cool thread JMohegan.

i just had to look up to make certain i wasn't confusing good old-fashioned fear with phobia:

–noun
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

so it seems that what differentiates a phobia from a fear is that a phobia is an irrational or illogical fear...something which common sense or intellect will tell us, there is no reason to fear, and yet we do anyway, strongly.

like Cattypus, i've had a lifelong phobia of driving. i have never driven and do not forsee this changing at any point.

i also have social anxiety which can be crippling at times...it is hard to describe exactly the fear there....it is the fear of crowds, yes, but it goes beyond that. i fear my "differentness" from the masses, sticking out like a neon pink sign. all my life, i've felt this strong sense of abnormality, of freakishness, and being surrounded by people who all so comfortably and unconsciously fit in, who just go about their everyday lives and go to work and the corner store and the bank and happy hour with friends and take a quick peak at those cute shoes at the mall...all these "normal" people...just amplifies my feelings of freakishness. it kills my self-esteem, makes me feel like some terrible mistake was made by placing me on this planet with all these decent normal folk, which makes me wish i could just be erased, voided, or better yet never existed in the first place.

so it is not that i fear public places themselves, or even people at large. i fear that i am not one of them, never will be one of them, and therefore just don't belong. to this day i've never met anyone who truly, truly understands this phobia, but it is what makes it impossible for me to ever successfully function out and about in the world. being submissive on top of all that, is no help either.

 

[JMohegan]

i have a very intense fear of heights, which i understand is very common but intellectually i see to be quite irrational. i have tried for many years to "face" it, which has had varying but only very modest success.

it is often so hard to explain such a thing to those who do not experience it. the friends and family who think i can somehow control and STOP the responses i get. the sweaty palms, racing heart, dizziness, vertigo...all are COMPLETELY unconscious. i have even tried to tell myself how safe i am, to talk myself out of feeling that way. but you know what? it just hasn't worked.

This is the worst part about having an actual, clinical phobia. The fact that people who don't have them don't understand the involuntary reaction.

I would be interested to read how successful this type of therapy is. I assume most people with a fear of spiders don't try it, since you can live with a fear of spiders. If your claustrophobia was not severe enough to preclude you from, say, riding in elevators or other things that come up pretty frequently, there's no real reason to seek treatment.

I'd be SOL if I ever needed an MRI, because I would just flatly refuse to do it. Other than that, I really don't consider my particular flavor of claustrophobia to be debilitating.

Some elevators are too small, so I take the stairs instead. Some stairs are too narrow, and this actually can be a hindrance to living life to its fullest. (I'm never gonna make it to the top of the dome at St. Peter's, for example.) But I'm generally okay in moderately narrow passages, as long as I can keep moving.

ITW, is your spider fear actual, clinical arachnophobia or just a strong aversion?

 

[BiBunny]

This is the worst part about having an actual, clinical phobia. The fact that people who don't have them don't understand the involuntary reaction.


I'd be SOL if I ever needed an MRI, because I would just flatly refuse to do it. Other than that, I really don't consider my particular flavor of claustrophobia to be debilitating.

Some elevators are too small, so I take the stairs instead. Some stairs are too narrow, and this can be a hindrance to living life to its fullest. (I'm never gonna make it to the top of the dome at St. Peter's, for example.) But I'm generally okay in moderately narrow passages, as long as I can keep moving.

ITW, is your spider fear actual, clinical arachnophobia or just a strong aversion?

You don't think you could do one of the open MRIs?

 

[JMohegan]

You don't think you could do one of the open MRIs?

I'm not ever doin' this.

Is there an alternative to the tube thing?

 

[ownedsubgal]

Fear of heights is, if you ask me, the *logical* phobia. It's everyone else who's defying logic.

ha. maybe so. i wonder, do those who fear heights fear specifically the idea of falling, the idea of jumping, or simply the fear of feet not touching the ground? i ask because i have a simultaneous love and fear of heights. i love being way way up someplace high, seeing the world beneath me, etc. but if the height is open (say top of a really high building/bridge), i fear i will not be able to control my urge to just LEAP off. seriously, i get anywhere near a ledge or the side of a bridge, and immediately i'm mentally bombarded with images of myself leaping, then falling falling falling, the stomach drop, the sensation of impact, how much will it hurt? and for how long, etc....and i will even get shaky and light-headed holding myself back from just DOING it. is that weird at all? lol

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not ever doin' this.

Is there an alternative to the tube thing?

We have Open MRI places all around here. When I had my MRI, I was in one of the tube things, but the open ones look similar to getting an X-ray, at least in the pictures.

I don't know if they can be used for everything a traditional MRI can be used for, though.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I'm not ever doin' this.

Is there an alternative to the tube thing?

somehow this looks a whole lot scarier to me than the traditional coffinesque MRI:

http://www.washingtonopenmri.com/stand_up.htm

 

[JMohegan]

Either of those would be fine. Good to know, in case I ever have health issues.

 

[JMohegan]

ha. maybe so. i wonder, do those who fear heights fear specifically the idea of falling, the idea of jumping, or simply the fear of feet not touching the ground? i ask because i have a simultaneous love and fear of heights. i love being way way up someplace high, seeing the world beneath me, etc. but if the height is open (say top of a really high building/bridge), i fear i will not be able to control my urge to just LEAP off. seriously, i get anywhere near a ledge or the side of a bridge, and immediately i'm mentally bombarded with images of myself leaping, then falling falling falling, the stomach drop, the sensation of impact, how much will it hurt? and for how long, etc....and i will even get shaky and light-headed holding myself back from just DOING it. is that weird at all? lol

I've thought about this sort of thing, many times. Don't have to fight to hold myself back, though - unless there's a chance that I could actually accomplish the leap unscathed. The latter represents a tempting challenge indeed.

Osg, the type of questions you ask at the beginning here don't really apply to my flavor of claustrophobia. It's more an involuntary, unreasoning freakout or allergic reaction than a question of actual fears. Hard to explain.

For example, if you asked me what I "fear" from the closed MRI, I would say that's the wrong question. A better question would be: what would happen to your body if you were put in that tube? (Racing pulse, sweating, extreme uncontrolled belligerence, etc.)