Face Your Fear

[intothewoods]

Ah, well I've heard of weirder. Wasn't there some dude who went up on flights with one of those passes for like a month to get over his phobia or something?

I love that whenever some terrorist event raises SUCH PROFOUND CLUSTERFUCK no one even looks at me like I'm nuts when I tell them I don't fly, I have to admit. People are just like "oh you hate being stranded and shit too."

Cattypuss, funny. Butterflies = fine by me. Moths = revulsion, omg, get it away. I have no idea why the chauvenism on my part, they both have that same awful flight motion of unpredictability. I think it's the hairy antenna and sometimes incredibly startling *size* of moths.

I have a *thing*about bugs big enough that they would crunch if I killed them - I don't want to kill them, I don't want to be around someone killing them, I'd rather turn my head and pretend I didn't see them.

Yeah, I should have been more clear. There is all sorts of stuff under the category of "therapy." Also, good point about fear of heights being logical. I would love to know how these things develop in our brain. Is there a trigger? It probably depends.

cool thread JMohegan.

i just had to look up to make certain i wasn't confusing good old-fashioned fear with phobia:

–noun
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

so it seems that what differentiates a phobia from a fear is that a phobia is an irrational or illogical fear...something which common sense or intellect will tell us, there is no reason to fear, and yet we do anyway, strongly.

like Cattypus, i've had a lifelong phobia of driving. i have never driven and do not forsee this changing at any point.

i also have social anxiety which can be crippling at times...it is hard to describe exactly the fear there....it is the fear of crowds, yes, but it goes beyond that. i fear my "differentness" from the masses, sticking out like a neon pink sign. all my life, i've felt this strong sense of abnormality, of freakishness, and being surrounded by people who all so comfortably and unconsciously fit in, who just go about their everyday lives and go to work and the corner store and the bank and happy hour with friends and take a quick peak at those cute shoes at the mall...all these "normal" people...just amplifies my feelings of freakishness. it kills my self-esteem, makes me feel like some terrible mistake was made by placing me on this planet with all these decent normal folk, which makes me wish i could just be erased, voided, or better yet never existed in the first place.

so it is not that i fear public places themselves, or even people at large. i fear that i am not one of them, never will be one of them, and therefore just don't belong. to this day i've never met anyone who truly, truly understands this phobia, but it is what makes it impossible for me to ever successfully function out and about in the world. being submissive on top of all that, is no help either.

Thank you for looking that up. Interesting stuff. I think the underlying fear behind a phobia could be logical, also, but your reaction would maybe just be out of "normal" bounds. For example, standing close to the edge of a really tall building? Normal to be freaked out. I'm guessing that feeling petrified to be near a window in a tenth floor building would not be normal, although understandable if you witnessed some terrible accident or something.

This is the worst part about having an actual, clinical phobia. The fact that people who don't have them don't understand the involuntary reaction.


I'd be SOL if I ever needed an MRI, because I would just flatly refuse to do it. Other than that, I really don't consider my particular flavor of claustrophobia to be debilitating.

Some elevators are too small, so I take the stairs instead. Some stairs are too narrow, and this actually can be a hindrance to living life to its fullest. (I'm never gonna make it to the top of the dome at St. Peter's, for example.) But I'm generally okay in moderately narrow passages, as long as I can keep moving.

ITW, is your spider fear actual, clinical arachnophobia or just a strong aversion?

I wonder if they could sedate you for an MRI. I'm just lookin' out for ya, JM!

As to your question, I was wondering this last night. I don't really know. It has been worse in more recent years. Sometimes I can't even stand to hear about/talk about spiders, and I do have an involuntary physical reaction. It's not like, eek! It's more - I will get out of the fucking room no matter what. Or a slow moving car (yes, I'm unfortunately serious) before I realize that wasn't the wisest reaction.

 

[ImOnIt]

Weta (this is a small one)


http://www.bearsinthecity.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/weta.jpg

I take care to not kill wetas, ever. They are cute in a strange, prehistoric way.


PS. Skydiving, anyone? I was 'suprised' with a secret skydiving present... I was vaguely anticipating death until my feet were back on the ground. But hot damn that must be difficult if you really hate heights.

 

[~Haze~]

I apologize if that didn't help any, but I really don't want to talk about it anymore.

Ha. Now that made me laugh.

 

[Keroin]

I would be interested to read how successful this type of therapy is. I assume most people with a fear of spiders don't try it, since you can live with a fear of spiders. If your claustrophobia was not severe enough to preclude you from, say, riding in elevators or other things that come up pretty frequently, there's no real reason to seek treatment. I watched another show where some pretty severe phobias were treated, and it looked harrowing to be subjected to the very thing you're afraid of. On the other hand, it was done very very gradually. Again, I only watched a few television shows on it. I'm no expert.

To Netz - of course I was being flip when I said the person was thrown on the plane. There was a lot of talk therapy that went along with riding the plane.

In my experience, frequent, controlled exposure can work very well for dealing with fear. With phobias, it would have to be very gradual and overseen by a qualified professional, though.

With needles, for example, I used to be terrified. A simple blood test required two nurses - one to hold me down and one to draw the blood. When I became a veterinary assistant, part of my job was giving IM and subQ injections...frequently. As well, I assisted with the taking of blood and eventually learned to do it myself. The more exposure I had to needles, the less fearful I became when they were used on me. It got to the point where I could just roll up my sleeve and, ho hum, blood work done.

Since leaving that job, my fear has slowly crept back in. It's not as bad as it used to be but there is a whole lot of self-talk and the occasional near-fainting every time I get poked.

As for heights - never been a biggie for me though I too have that feeling of wanting to leap whenever I'm up high - one of the best fall guys in the stunt business has an interesting program for training stunt people who are nervous of heights how to do high falls. He makes them do an excessive amount of falls from a ridiculously low height - think six feet, maybe. Slowly he ups the height...very slowly. By the time his students are at 20 or 30 feet, they're cool as cucumbers. I've actually heard that often they get so fricken bored doing the low heights that they push to move higher.

Motivation is also an important factor in overcoming fears. I do believe even debilitating phobias can be overcome but you have to really, really want it.

 

[graceanne]

As for heights - never been a biggie for me though I too have that feeling of wanting to leap whenever I'm up high - one of the best fall guys in the stunt business has an interesting program for training stunt people who are nervous of heights how to do high falls. He makes them do an excessive amount of falls from a ridiculously low height - think six feet, maybe. Slowly he ups the height...very slowly. By the time his students are at 20 or 30 feet, they're cool as cucumbers. I've actually heard that often they get so fricken bored doing the low heights that they push to move higher.

SIX FEET IS A LOW HEIGHT!?!

I know a tall person decided THAT one.

 

[Keroin]

SIX FEET IS A LOW HEIGHT!?!

I know a tall person decided THAT one.

LOL. Yes, it is a low height when you're falling onto a nice, big, cushy piece of foam.

In your case, maybe he'd start at two feet.

 

[~Haze~]

ha. maybe so. i wonder, do those who fear heights fear specifically the idea of falling, the idea of jumping, or simply the fear of feet not touching the ground? i ask because i have a simultaneous love and fear of heights. i love being way way up someplace high, seeing the world beneath me, etc. but if the height is open (say top of a really high building/bridge), i fear i will not be able to control my urge to just LEAP off. seriously, i get anywhere near a ledge or the side of a bridge, and immediately i'm mentally bombarded with images of myself leaping, then falling falling falling, the stomach drop, the sensation of impact, how much will it hurt? and for how long, etc....and i will even get shaky and light-headed holding myself back from just DOING it. is that weird at all? lol

For me, it's all involuntary and when I think about being trapped, think about a number of things.

Specifically, I think about not having enough room to move my extremities and always picture myself trapped in either a coffin (and buried alive) or, trapped and confined in the debris of a collapsed building and not being able to move at all.

I feel my heart rate increasing, I have difficulty breathing and I feel myself squirming madly. The thing is, I don't have to be in the situation. Just thinking about it makes me feel very anxious.

Often times, when working through it in my head, I have to get up and move around just to reassure myself.

Also, apparently, my legs are very active when I sleep, too. I feel a similar anxiousness if I tuck my legs into a tight tucked sheet. Even if it's not tucked in, when I wake up, my legs are usually taking up as much room as they can possibly take up and nothing snug is covering my legs. Sheets and blankets are always kicked free and either pulled up toward the pillows, or kicked off the end of the bed. I've never been able to share a blanket with someone I sleep with because I kick and kick and kick.

 

[graceanne]

LOL. Yes, it is a low height when you're falling onto a nice, big, cushy piece of foam.

In your case, maybe he'd start at two feet.

I won't jump from six feet if it's a big ass pool of water below me, and I know this from experience. Heck, they couldn't get me to dive from a standing position, and it wasn't a matter of not being willing to, I just couldn't make myself go.

But, then, I wouldn't become a stunt person, for that reason. It's just a matter of knowing your limitations.

 

[Keroin]

I won't jump from six feet if it's a big ass pool of water below me, and I know this from experience. Heck, they couldn't get me to dive from a standing position, and it wasn't a matter of not being willing to, I just couldn't make myself go.

But, then, I wouldn't become a stunt person, for that reason. It's just a matter of knowing your limitations.

If there was a big piece of cushy foam on the floor, could you fall backwards onto it - from floor height?

 

[graceanne]

If there was a big piece of cushy foam on the floor, could you fall backwards onto it - from floor height?

Probably not. We did something like that my freshman year, where we stood on a stool and were supposed to fall back into someone's arms. I couldn't then, either, and I was just on a stool. Honestly, I say I'm afraid of heights, but more specifically I'm afraid of falling.

 

[Keroin]

Probably not. We did something like that my freshman year, where we stood on a stool and were supposed to fall back into someone's arms. I couldn't then, either, and I was just on a stool. Honestly, I say I'm afraid of heights, but more specifically I'm afraid of falling.

OK, so could you sit on your butt and let your upper body fall backward onto a soft, cushy mat?

My point is that I believe if you started *small* enough, (small being relative), and worked your way up very gradually, I think you could do what you now believe you cannot do. Just a theory though.

 

[~Haze~]

OK, so could you sit on your butt and let your upper body fall backward onto a soft, cushy mat?

My point is that I believe if you started *small* enough, (small being relative), and worked your way up very gradually, I think you could do what you now believe you cannot do. Just a theory though.

I like the way you think. I like the way you post. I like your style.

You're a real problem solver, you seem to be quite the optimist, and have genuine people skills. I would have given up like three posts ago, but not you.

 

[Netzach]

ha. maybe so. i wonder, do those who fear heights fear specifically the idea of falling, the idea of jumping, or simply the fear of feet not touching the ground? i ask because i have a simultaneous love and fear of heights. i love being way way up someplace high, seeing the world beneath me, etc. but if the height is open (say top of a really high building/bridge), i fear i will not be able to control my urge to just LEAP off. seriously, i get anywhere near a ledge or the side of a bridge, and immediately i'm mentally bombarded with images of myself leaping, then falling falling falling, the stomach drop, the sensation of impact, how much will it hurt? and for how long, etc....and i will even get shaky and light-headed holding myself back from just DOING it. is that weird at all? lol

I think it's totally individual. I knew a hiker who told me that she got to the peaks of mountains so manic that she had to consciously not jump, so you're not the only one.

For me it's totally the existential horror of it - just about any other possible method of demise is preferable for some reason. Think it represents a loss of control? Nah.

 

[JMohegan]

I wonder if they could sedate you for an MRI. I'm just lookin' out for ya, JM!

As to your question, I was wondering this last night. I don't really know. It has been worse in more recent years. Sometimes I can't even stand to hear about/talk about spiders, and I do have an involuntary physical reaction. It's not like, eek! It's more - I will get out of the fucking room no matter what. Or a slow moving car (yes, I'm unfortunately serious) before I realize that wasn't the wisest reaction.

Awww, so thoughtful, woman!

That does sound closer to actual arachnophobia than just an everyday fearful aversion. Any idea why it's getting worse?

 

[Netzach]

If there was a big piece of cushy foam on the floor, could you fall backwards onto it - from floor height?

Backwards, no, forwards, yes.

Insanely enough, I had no major issue falling back into water, till the height gets really kooky or something. I have full faith in water, for some reason.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I think it's totally individual. I knew a hiker who told me that she got to the peaks of mountains so manic that she had to consciously not jump, so you're not the only one.

For me it's totally the existential horror of it just about any other possible method of demise is preferable for some reason.

ah, the fear of death, or rather the act of dying. you're right, that is healthy. death appeals to me far too much to fear it, and the particular method of weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeSPLAT! just seems like a relatively quick and emotionless way to check out, so it's very tempting.

i frequently have dreams of falling, which i know are common, but in all mine i choose to fall, i just casually let myself walk over a high precipice and then revel in the sensation of the wind in my face as i fall. my stomach lurches as the ground gets closer and closer, but i am very excited too, and actually looking forward to the moment of impact. i want to know what that feels like, to go SPLAT! but in real life, unfortunately, you only get to try once. that thought alone has kept me from hopping over interstate bridges.

 

[insert____here]

i'm afraid of

- trying really hard and still not being good enough
- going up in the sense of things like climbing ladders and rollercoasters and stairs and taking off in a plane (not afraid of actual heights at all, find them rather calming and exhilarating and peaceful all at the same time.)
- cockroaches (not the least bit worried about other creepy crawly things)
- losing my child (either/both physically or emotionally)
- seaweed (this one actually produces panic)
- needles (didn't worry me until a lousy experience at a dentist, now it steadily gets worse)
- my ability to spazz out and go beserk and really badly physically hurt people (scares the crap out of me and i avoid situations where there may be a possibility of violence, including nightclubs. i also don't allow other people to anger me at all, even when they are trying really hard to be assholes)
- really really narrow undergound cave passages, the kind where you have to relax your chest and breath out and squeeze through.

funnily enough while i am afraid of these things, i find i can push away the fear when there is enough need. it'll come back to me later and i'll still be afraid after the event, but when i need to get around it, i can.

 

[Keroin]

I like the way you think. I like the way you post. I like your style.

You're a real problem solver, you seem to be quite the optimist, and have genuine people skills. I would have given up like three posts ago, but not you.

I like that you like me...

I think it's more just stupid bullheadedness than anything else, LOL, but it seems to serve me well.

 

[~Haze~]

I like that you like me...

I think it's more just stupid bullheadedness than anything else, LOL, but it seems to serve me well.

Fear of failure! I feel your pain. It's served me well, too.



ETA: There's nothing wrong with failure. It's giving up that hurts.

 

[LilyBart]

This is the worst part about having an actual, clinical phobia. The fact that people who don't have them don't understand the involuntary reaction.


I'd be SOL if I ever needed an MRI, because I would just flatly refuse to do it. Other than that, I really don't consider my particular flavor of claustrophobia to be debilitating.

Some elevators are too small, so I take the stairs instead. Some stairs are too narrow, and this actually can be a hindrance to living life to its fullest. (I'm never gonna make it to the top of the dome at St. Peter's, for example.) But I'm generally okay in moderately narrow passages, as long as I can keep moving.

JM - I'm here to tell you, having had an MRI, that valium works. I just have to take double the normal dose.

 

[neci]

i'm afraid of

- trying really hard and still not being good enough
- going up in the sense of things like climbing ladders and rollercoasters and stairs and taking off in a plane (not afraid of actual heights at all, find them rather calming and exhilarating and peaceful all at the same time.)
- cockroaches (not the least bit worried about other creepy crawly things)
- losing my child (either/both physically or emotionally)
- seaweed (this one actually produces panic)
- needles (didn't worry me until a lousy experience at a dentist, now it steadily gets worse)
- my ability to spazz out and go beserk and really badly physically hurt people (scares the crap out of me and i avoid situations where there may be a possibility of violence, including nightclubs. i also don't allow other people to anger me at all, even when they are trying really hard to be assholes)
- really really narrow undergound cave passages, the kind where you have to relax your chest and breath out and squeeze through.

funnily enough while i am afraid of these things, i find i can push away the fear when there is enough need. it'll come back to me later and i'll still be afraid after the event, but when i need to get around it, i can.

i have to add seaweed after reading this. i hate fucking seaweed.

 

[intothewoods]

In my experience, frequent, controlled exposure can work very well for dealing with fear. With phobias, it would have to be very gradual and overseen by a qualified professional, though.

With needles, for example, I used to be terrified. A simple blood test required two nurses - one to hold me down and one to draw the blood. When I became a veterinary assistant, part of my job was giving IM and subQ injections...frequently. As well, I assisted with the taking of blood and eventually learned to do it myself. The more exposure I had to needles, the less fearful I became when they were used on me. It got to the point where I could just roll up my sleeve and, ho hum, blood work done.

Since leaving that job, my fear has slowly crept back in. It's not as bad as it used to be but there is a whole lot of self-talk and the occasional near-fainting every time I get poked.

As for heights - never been a biggie for me though I too have that feeling of wanting to leap whenever I'm up high - one of the best fall guys in the stunt business has an interesting program for training stunt people who are nervous of heights how to do high falls. He makes them do an excessive amount of falls from a ridiculously low height - think six feet, maybe. Slowly he ups the height...very slowly. By the time his students are at 20 or 30 feet, they're cool as cucumbers. I've actually heard that often they get so fricken bored doing the low heights that they push to move higher.

Motivation is also an important factor in overcoming fears. I do believe even debilitating phobias can be overcome but you have to really, really want it.

Yeah, I'm not that motivated to overcome my fear of spiders.

Awww, so thoughtful, woman!

That does sound closer to actual arachnophobia than just an everyday fearful aversion. Any idea why it's getting worse?

Mmmm, if I have a run in with a big spider or other bug like a roach, it gets worse. If I see a few little ones and deal with them successfully, it gets better.

 

[katt_g]

This is the worst part about having an actual, clinical phobia. The fact that people who don't have them don't understand the involuntary reaction.

i once had to "freak out" at my own mother who kept gushing over the drop off along side a road once despite my repeated pleas for her to stop. she didn't seem to understand that even if i closed my eyes, her detailed descriptions made the picture so clear in my mind that the unconscious physical reactions continued!

fears...
i am afraid of heights. edges with no railings, cliffs, driving on a windy road on a cliff...

ha. maybe so. i wonder, do those who fear heights fear specifically the idea of falling, the idea of jumping, or simply the fear of feet not touching the ground?

interesting thoughts these two...

in my case, i am most fearful and get the strongest reactions when i am out of control of the situation somehow. the worst seems to be riding in a vehicle on winding mountain roads where all i see past the edge is sky! i think my mind conjures visions of loss of control of this huge metal box which then plummets off the side completely unstoppable by human means.

 

[graceanne]

OK, so could you sit on your butt and let your upper body fall backward onto a soft, cushy mat?

My point is that I believe if you started *small* enough, (small being relative), and worked your way up very gradually, I think you could do what you now believe you cannot do. Just a theory though.

Very possible. They were able to get me to dive into the pool from a sitting position (about the only battle they won, since I won't put my head under water for more than a few seconds at a time), which was only mildly creepy. It would probably take a lot of time, patience, and willingness on my part. None of which I have right now. LOL

 

[midwestyankee]

i have to add seaweed after reading this. i hate fucking seaweed.

I'll try almost anything once....but I'm not sure even I could get off on fucking seaweed. I think I'll stick to women, thanks.