Facts, bears and groupthink

[BoredDirtyCommie]

Do you hate reading comprehension?

Reading is an investment of time, for both information and entertainment. If I don't see a return on investment, I move on to the next source. Paying for a source is a financial and time investment. Paying for corporate propaganda is a dead loss.

Why did you just double down on being against books? It was a completely unnecessary thing to do. Also very weird.

 

[pinkparkhorse]

BTW, groupthink works among bears, but only when they've had a lot of cocaine.

Lol. I love that movie.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Reading is an investment of time

If you read for half an hour each day, that’s using up just 2% of your time.

2.08% to be pedantic.

This feels like just another bad faith argument.

‘I won’t read things that might challenge me because reading is corporate propaganda/too expensive/too much an investment of my time’.

It’s not believable.

 

[LLCox]

.

‘I won’t read things that might challenge me ...

lol, that's what happens when you finally get too much info.

 

[Chernosoth]

Why did you just double down on being against books? It was a completely unnecessary thing to do. Also very weird.

You're still struggling with reading comprehension. I didn't say anything then specifically for or against books. Since I now have well stocked shelves, I haven't checked a thrift store bookshelf in a while. For what new books cost now, I want a book to be worth keeping for years. That's mostly old books with proven lasting value. So, why don't I read more library books? That is still somewhat an option, but most libraries now have less books and more electronic media, conference rooms, and event rooms. They may eventually lose traffic to private libraries and reading rooms. I may eventually buy a private library membership. But I am middle aged with middle aged eyes. Reading enlarged text on a screen is more convenient than squinting at small text on a page. I may eventually wear reading glasses on a string around my neck.

 

[MajorRewrite]

So, why don't I read more library books? That is still somewhat an option, but most libraries now have less books and more electronic media, conference rooms, and event rooms.

It’s astonishing how many subjects you are completely wrong about.

 

[BoredDirtyCommie]

You're still struggling with reading comprehension. I didn't say anything then specifically for or against books. Since I now have well stocked shelves, I haven't checked a thrift store bookshelf in a while. For what new books cost now, I want a book to be worth keeping for years. That's mostly old books with proven lasting value. So, why don't I read more library books? That is still somewhat an option, but most libraries now have less books and more electronic media, conference rooms, and event rooms. They may eventually lose traffic to private libraries and reading rooms. I may eventually buy a private library membership. But I am middle aged with middle aged eyes. Reading enlarged text on a screen is more convenient than squinting at small text on a page. I may eventually wear reading glasses on a string around my neck.

Now you're just back tracking. Lol.

Why do you care so much about what I think of you, anyway. We're strangers on the internet.

 

[Lazaran]

It’s astonishing how many subjects you are completely wrong about.

Sternosot is another MAGAt competing for the title…

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Link it if you have it, but most Americans have learned to be skeptical as so many certified facts have turned out to be absolute BS. I recall litsters here crowing about Trump having difficulty paying bond to appeal the civil lawsuit penalties.

Did you have a chance to read that article on all the ways Trump’s enriched himself during his presidency?

It’s quite long. New Yorker articles are often very long. But I’m genuinely interested to know your opinion.

 

[Chernosoth]

Did you have a chance to read that article on all the ways Trump’s enriched himself during his presidency?

It’s quite long. New Yorker articles are often very long. But I’m genuinely interested to know your opinion.

I read quite a bit and started wondering where are the cites, links, or anything to verify the claims in the article, the stuff that litsters here demand.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

I read quite a bit and started wondering where are the cites, links, or anything to verify the claims in the article, the stuff that litsters here demand.

I’ve just reread a bunch of it and the writer clearly states in the text where each fact or opinion has come from.

Regardless, how are you feeling about Trump’s self-enrichment after reading that article?

A) the abundance of evidence is overwhelming, and self-enrichment would indeed fit with his character: I’ll admit I was wrong. He must be enriching himself. I’m glad I have a better understanding of that.

B) all of the experts referenced in the article are wrong; I don’t trust public records; the documents, independent researchers, and people at the magazine are simply part of a deeply elaborate hoax. I trust my feelings more. I’m sticking with my claim that he’s losing money while he’s President.

C) listen, the article’s almost certainly correct, even if it might have made a mistake here or there, but I’m not willing to change my mind. Sorry. It doesn’t matter what evidence you show me. I’ll find a reason in my own head to dismiss it so I can carry on thinking what I thought before.

I’m going with C. Would I be correct?

I don’t have any citations for this because, like the New Yorker, I’m not a publisher of peer-reviewed scientific papers. Here’s the evidence to back up that claim though: you’ve already used several bad faith arguments to defend your position - corporate media, expense, the time investment and, now, it seems, the lack of citations and links!

 

[Chernosoth]

Regardless, how are you feeling about Trump’s self-enrichment after reading that article?

I expect Trump to die in office or leave early. And then he may be remembered as one of the great leaders of American history. He could become a mythic figure, like King Arthur and Abe Lincoln.

I'm a long term picture guy watching the long slow waves of history roll by and build new shorelines of our future. As a former third party voter now willing to vote major party to get shit done, I don't care which party gets shit done, if shit actually gets done. Currently that is slightly more one party than the other, but I can imagine a future of all parties being dropped forever as stupid wastes of money. That may even be an inevitability as the nation goes the usual route of an empire in decline.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I expect Trump to die in office or leave early. And then he may be remembered as one of the great leaders of American history. He could become a mythic figure, like King Arthur and Abe Lincoln.

I'm a long term picture guy watching the long slow waves of history roll by and build new shorelines of our future. As a former third party voter now willing to vote major party to get shit done, I don't care which party gets shit done, if shit actually gets done. Currently that is slightly more one party than the other, but I can imagine a future of all parties being dropped forever as stupid wastes of money. That may even be an inevitability as the nation goes the usual route of an empire in decline.

Donald Trump is another Marino Faliero

 

[Chernosoth]

Also, I don't have the time or the salary or the paid accounts at paywalled sites to be an investigative journalist doing legwork of finding sources only half cited in attack articles. The New Yorker article was first a print article. The online editor did not add links, which seems odd for a publication that supposedly goes to exhaustive lengths of checking facts.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

I expect Trump to die in office or leave early. And then he may be remembered as one of the great leaders of American history. He could become a mythic figure, like King Arthur and Abe Lincoln.

I'm a long term picture guy watching the long slow waves of history roll by and build new shorelines of our future. As a former third party voter now willing to vote major party to get shit done, I don't care which party gets shit done, if shit actually gets done. Currently that is slightly more one party than the other, but I can imagine a future of all parties being dropped forever as stupid wastes of money. That may even be an inevitability as the nation goes the usual route of an empire in decline.

So, yes, your answer was 'C - other people's expertise has zero effect on me.'

To be honest, this thread is about what people do to fend off bears. Read the original post. It's not about Trump's self-enrichment.

You've done an excellent job of demonstrating the concept. You've fended off the bear.

I picked Trump's self-enrichment and self-dealing because it's just so irrefutable. There is just so much evidence of it. Documented evidence.

You'd think that humans would go 'huh, wow, that's amazing. I'm glad I know that now.' But they don't.

Instead they come up with one self-deception after another to protect themselves from changing their minds. You can tell the arguments are made in bad faith because, whenever they're demonstrated to be incorrect, the person never accepts that fact and adjusts their thinking - instead they immediately move on to another bogus justification.

You see it over and over again here. Eventually all the justifications are shown to be bogus and the person lashes out, tells you to fuck off and walks away. Two days later, you see them regurgitating the same nonsense all over again.

 

[Chernosoth]

So, yes, your answer was 'C - other people's expertise has zero effect on me.'

My reasons are different versions of B and C. The article didn't provide or link to documents I can check myself, which I want to see before I trust a word of the New Yorker, a Conde Nast corporate media outlet. Current "experts" are increasingly recognized as available to say whatever they're paid to say.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

My reasons are different versions of B and C. The article didn't provide or link to documents I can check myself, which I want to see before I trust a word of the New Yorker, a Conde Nast corporate media outlet. Current "experts" are increasingly recognized as available to say whatever they're paid to say.

Ok, so, just so that we all know: What’s the reason why Condé Nast is paying all these experts to say that Trump is enriching himself?

And don’t forget, we’re going to need to see all your citations too.

This is an extremely elaborate hoax - to be honest, I’m astonished no one else has heard about it - and I’m fascinated to find out more.

 

[Chernosoth]

Ok, so, just so that we all know: What’s the reason why Condé Nast is paying all these experts to say that Trump is enriching himself?

I suggest instead you watch the next turn in your group's groupthink. If the Republicans gain a large number of seats this year, that will be marketing data the corporate media can't ignore. They will turn on the decimal point of a bitcoin and suddenly discover they love Trump and all those nice Republicans, and never said anything bad about him, honest to dollars.

Or you could look at any previous turn. Democrats accused Trump of racism when he ordered travel restrictions to and from China at the start of the covid years. The White House changed parties, and suddenly they wanted more extreme restrictions, mandated vaccinations, and all sorts of crazy shit. Dr. Fauci, the anointed covid expert, said don't wear masks, and then he said masks should be universal, and most of the nation marched to his tune.

 

[Lazaran]

Or you could look at any previous turn. Democrats accused Trump of racism when he ordered travel restrictions to and from China at the start of the covid years.

Um, no. Democrats pointed to DonOld’s own comments & actions as proof of his racism: “Kung Flu” ring a bell???

DonOld also almost immediately started making claims that China PURPOSELY engineered and released the Covid virus from the lab in Wuhan, thus placing a target on the back of many Asian Americans.



Hope that ^ helps.



Sternosot



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Chernosoth]

The neolibs here won't believe this now, but later may see their own bad faith arguments, and realize they wanted only excuses for attacks, bullying, shaming, etc., not discussion.

 

[YDB95]

The neolibs here won't believe this now, but later may see their own bad faith arguments, and realize they wanted only excuses for attacks, bullying, shaming, etc., not discussion.

In Dante's Inferno, there's a special place in hell for the man who is responsible for the fact that people speak different languages. His curse is to spend eternity ranting and raving in a language only he understands.

Your posts often remind me of him.

 

[Chernosoth]

In Dante's Inferno, there's a special place in hell for the man who is responsible for the fact that people speak different languages. His curse is to spend eternity ranting and raving in a language only he understands.

Your posts often remind me of him.

I accept that here. Corporate media (billionaires) can still tell you what to think and who to hate in your language.

 

[Chernosoth]

Learning a second language can be illuminating, by showing us how much knowing only one language limits how and what we think. Being the guy who inspires people to speak different languages would be one of the great legacies of the human species.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

In Dante's Inferno, there's a special place in hell for the man who is responsible for the fact that people speak different languages. His curse is to spend eternity ranting and raving in a language only he understands.

Your posts often remind me of him.

Funny.

I'd say he was more like a doctor who correctly diagnoses a woman has breast cancer. But then tells her it's because she's been eating too many pancakes at the weekend and advises her to change the color of her shoelaces.