Feedback on first story

[SaintDestiny]

Hello everyone.

I posted some incorrigible smut called Sitting for Sir, part 1 of a multi-part series in the reluctance/non-con category. This is not my first creative writing process, but it is the first time publishing anything erotic I have written. So if anyone has read it, or if anyone is up for reading it: What works? What doesn't?
Obviously as a creative work I have had to make decisions. Part 1 is the shortest section of those I have written so far (The others average a little over 3k words each) and only really introduces two characters, but also name-drops or hints at several characters that are brought up later. Are those crumbs enough to tease, but not so big as to distract? Are the two characters I do introduce clearly set up?
I chose early on to write in a first person perspective. I had abandoned an earlier story with some of the same beats written in the man's perspective because it lacked conflict (He wanted to dominate the woman, he did, story died). Are both Emily's inner conflict and her conflicts with her surroundings initially compelling? I'm pretty much committed to the first person perspective by now, but this may not be my only foray into erotica, so feedback on how the first person perspective works is also wanted. Does she monologue too much? Does it work as exposition? Is it clear to the reader that, because the perspective is limited to that of a naïve 18 year old girl, there are things that the narrative won't tell because the POV won't see it, and thus it has to be inferred?
Frederick Saybrook-Grosmont is supposed to be superficially charming but also, once you scratch the surface, a deeply flawed individual. Stylistically I have tried to transcribe his accent by not using contractions or slang. How does that come across to the reader? And is it believable (If not necessarily realistic) that Emily falls prey to him?

And last, very specifically: I use single linebreaks for all the reasons you would use those, and two line breaks to indicate a break in scene. However in the story as published, I cannot tell the difference between the two, since it appears in both instances it is a line and a half. Is that something I just have to live with, or can I get the effect of a double line break some other way? Part 2 is pending now so I am not sure there is much to do there, but parts 3-6 are still being edited if anyone has a trick. Otherwise I may experiment slightly with the line breaks.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

@FrancesScott wrote an essay about how to format on Literotica:

https://www.literotica.com/s/how-to-format-a-story-with-html

 

[darwin1859]

Well, short answer: this is very good. That's my opinion, but not just my opinion. You have ~7200 views and an average rating of 4.35. That's very good.

Also, although I'll provide some advice below, I think you should write what you find erotic.

Some things that I thought you did well:

• You write well in many dimensions. To pick a few ways: you didn't core dump all the information about Emily; you naturally worked in that she was an 18-year-old high school senior from a dysfunctional family. You wrote the characters authentically. You captured the inner dialog of a teen in a believable way. The sex was generally well-written and satisfying. I'm very interested in what happens next.
• You picked a good category (I think); I assume more reluctant sex will follow
• You picked good tags (I think); that matters because I think a lot of people will scan these tags to determine if they want to read your story.

Constructive feedback:

• I think you should insert some signal for a scene break, like "* * *" or "<center>* * *</center>" (or you could try the modern version "<p style="text-align: center;">* * *</p>"). For example, between Emily putting the girls down for a nap and knocking on the study or after the study before she was home.
• I think you could use an editor. As one example, this was confusing (I think there's a word missing): "He delved down and put his mouth on my lips, wrapping his [sic] around one and sucking it in. His tongue teased me, his teeth tormented me." And there were a few points where I has to re-read your sentence or paragraph to get your meaning.
• BTW, I would strike "delve" from your vocabulary. Some people consider it a marker for AI writing. I doubt that I have ever used that word in any fiction (maybe it's more common in UK English?)
• I thought it was inconsistent that she calls him "Sir" until they have sex and then rarely afterward.
• You don't have to agree, but I, personally, have an "Ick" reaction to virginity as a fetish. I think it's way too much concern about a relative non-event (something that's only an event because we make it one).
• But I did expect that part of the virginity fetish was an explicit point where he breaks her hymen and that hurts her. I don't know how realistic that is, but I think that's how virginity-taking is commonly portrayed.
• Again, you don't need to agree, but his condescending, "Daddy" mannerisms didn't land for me (e.g., "'Oh sweet Emily, pure, virgin Emily,' he cooed..."). Also her calling him "Sir S-G" was grating to me; "Sir" would have been fine.
• This line has, for me, a few illustrative issues: "'Cro-... crotch... less?' I managed, in disbelief." (1) The way to write stuttering is to repeat the initial sound with a hyphen (no ellipsis), so "Cr-crotch... less?" OR "Cr-crotchless?" (2) You don't have boring "I said" dialog tags, you use a lot of unique verbs (e.g., "I managed"). I think that is a mistake. When you write "I said/he said" I think it clarifies while being invisible (readers don't even see it), but when you use a different verb, you emphasize the dialog tag and force the reader to consider it. I think invisible, boring (I said, He said, etc.) dialog tags are best unless you want to draw attention to how the dialog was uttered (e.g., "Yessss," I sighed). (3) You should SHOW us and not TELL us (and also NOT both SHOW and TELL us). By show, I mean that you pick your dialog super carefully to convey your meaning and you already did that very, very well (with "Cr-crotch... less?"). I don't think you need "I managed, in disbelief" and I think adding that actually detracts from the clear signal in the dialog. Also, FWIW, this is supposedly one of the "tells" for AI writing (AI uses a belts-and-suspenders approach to ensure that it's perfectly clear). Rely upon your generally excellent dialog. Points #2 and #3 apply generally to your writing.
• There was a certain verbosity to your writing. Frankly, I see very similar issues in my writing and I'm reluctant to call it a "flaw" but as an example, in the middle of oral sex we don't need this: "Once again, it was a first that I didn't even know about but now it would never be far from my mind." Not needed, not advantageous. There were a few places where you could have squeezed words out or written it more simply and that would improve the flow and pace of the text.
• Does she not have pubic hair? I thought it was odd that it wasn't mentioned.
• Finally, it's very clear that the sex has moments of pleasure for Emily, but they are not expressed in the vocabulary common to erotic stories. For example, I don't read many words conveying "arousal" even though the story says she's aroused. When he says he's going to fuck her, she says "Okay"--there's no hint that she's aroused, wet, eager for penetration, etc. I attributed it to this being her first time, but it would be less satisfying if all the sex in your story were written in this way. The reason this is an issue is that the erotic value of a sex scene depends on us experiencing the feelings and the sex thoughts of the protagonist. I'm not saying that virgin Emily should be worldly in this scene, but her body should react and she should feel things that we worldly people can relate to as sexy.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

• This line has, for me, a few illustrative issues: "'Cro-... crotch... less?' I managed, in disbelief." (1) The way to write stuttering is to repeat the initial sound with a hyphen (no ellipsis), so "Cr-crotch... less?" OR "Cr-crotchless?

Minor point, but stutterers I've known repeat the initial sound. Which is the "k" sound. Something like, "c-c-crotchless".

 

[darwin1859]

Minor point, but stutterers I've known repeat the initial sound. Which is the "k" sound. Something like, "c-c-crotchless".

Definitely the rule is "the initial sound" is repeated... I debated if that's "c" or "cr" but it's definitely not "cro" and there shouldn't be an ellipsis. If OP had written "c-c-crotchless" (or "c-c-crotch... less") I would not have disagreed.

 

[FrancesScott]

@FrancesScott wrote an essay about how to format on Literotica:

https://www.literotica.com/s/how-to-format-a-story-with-html

Thank you for mentioning my essay.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Hello everyone.

I posted some incorrigible smut called Sitting for Sir, part 1 of a multi-part series in the reluctance/non-con category. This is not my first creative writing process, but it is the first time publishing anything erotic I have written. So if anyone has read it, or if anyone is up for reading it: What works? What doesn't?
Obviously as a creative work I have had to make decisions. Part 1 is the shortest section of those I have written so far (The others average a little over 3k words each) and only really introduces two characters, but also name-drops or hints at several characters that are brought up later. Are those crumbs enough to tease, but not so big as to distract? Are the two characters I do introduce clearly set up?
I chose early on to write in a first person perspective. I had abandoned an earlier story with some of the same beats written in the man's perspective because it lacked conflict (He wanted to dominate the woman, he did, story died). Are both Emily's inner conflict and her conflicts with her surroundings initially compelling? I'm pretty much committed to the first person perspective by now, but this may not be my only foray into erotica, so feedback on how the first person perspective works is also wanted. Does she monologue too much? Does it work as exposition? Is it clear to the reader that, because the perspective is limited to that of a naïve 18 year old girl, there are things that the narrative won't tell because the POV won't see it, and thus it has to be inferred?
Frederick Saybrook-Grosmont is supposed to be superficially charming but also, once you scratch the surface, a deeply flawed individual. Stylistically I have tried to transcribe his accent by not using contractions or slang. How does that come across to the reader? And is it believable (If not necessarily realistic) that Emily falls prey to him?

And last, very specifically: I use single linebreaks for all the reasons you would use those, and two line breaks to indicate a break in scene. However in the story as published, I cannot tell the difference between the two, since it appears in both instances it is a line and a half. Is that something I just have to live with, or can I get the effect of a double line break some other way? Part 2 is pending now so I am not sure there is much to do there, but parts 3-6 are still being edited if anyone has a trick. Otherwise I may experiment slightly with the line breaks.

'And is it believable (If not necessarily realistic) that Emily falls prey to him?"

Not even slightly as written, but it's a very very common phenomenon here that guys write women as just incredibly malleable, inherently 'submissive' and borderline having an acquired brain injury.

 

[SaintDestiny]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

@FrancesScott wrote an essay about how to format on Literotica:

https://www.literotica.com/s/how-to-format-a-story-with-html

Thanks. This explains why what I uploaded doesn't produce the results I want. At least I can fix it from part 3.

Well, short answer: this is very good. That's my opinion, but not just my opinion. You have ~7200 views and an average rating of 4.35. That's very good.

I appreciate your feedback, you make a lot of good points. I'm striving for improvement and several of your comments highlight flaws that I want to fix.
You make a few points on my verbosity. That's fair, but also not one of the things I will change broadly. I write as an outlet and this is one of those stylistic choices that readers can take or leave (For this story at least). I will, however, look out for places where I over-egg the pudding as you point out with e.g. "crotchless". There's a difference between verbosity and then beating the reader with crutches, after all.

I think you should insert some signal for a scene break, like "* * *" or "<center>* * *</center>" (or you could try the modern version "<p style="text-align: center;">* * *</p>"). For example, between Emily putting the girls down for a nap and knocking on the study or after the study before she was home.

This in particular vexed me because I do have those scene breaks in the document I uploaded, but all the scene breaks got truncated into the same break that is used for all line breaks. But the article above gave me the tools I need to have those line breaks in the future.

• You don't have to agree, but I, personally, have an "Ick" reaction to virginity as a fetish. I think it's way too much concern about a relative non-event (something that's only an event because we make it one).
• But I did expect that part of the virginity fetish was an explicit point where he breaks her hymen and that hurts her. I don't know how realistic that is, but I think that's how virginity-taking is commonly portrayed.
• Again, you don't need to agree, but his condescending, "Daddy" mannerisms didn't land for me (e.g., "'Oh sweet Emily, pure, virgin Emily,' he cooed..."). Also her calling him "Sir S-G" was grating to me; "Sir" would have been fine.

The Sir S-G was something I dropped fast. Basically I realised that it was grating to write. ;-) But the 'daddy' mannerisms were actually meant to be red flags - he's supposed to come off as somewhat a creep. Maybe that's not working as well as intended?
For Emily it's a big deal because all she has had are stories (Her sex ed was poor, her home milieu would not have taught her), but for Frederick it is supposed to be a very clear signal that he's actually a bad guy and that this is not a love story. He's abusing power he holds over her, after all.
So if you can elaborate a bit, was the ick reaction to the inclusion at all (It sounds like it just doesn't appeal to you), or because a grown man is acting like this over a vulnerable teenager? Or both?

Does she not have pubic hair? I thought it was odd that it wasn't mentioned.

I completely biffed that. I wanted to avoid the trope of a character starting off by describing themselves, and wanted more "natural" ways of introducing what she looks like. This is why I don't have Emily describe her own height. She pegs Frederick at 6'6'' and herself as a foot and a half lower.
So to answer: yes and it's something I am writing in part 7 after a notable absence. If I should defend myself, I would claim that we don't often think of ourselves in descriptive terms (Fiction being unrealistic in that regard), but really it's just an oversight in characterisation.

Finally, it's very clear that the sex has moments of pleasure for Emily, but they are not expressed in the vocabulary common to erotic stories. For example, I don't read many words conveying "arousal" even though the story says she's aroused. When he says he's going to fuck her, she says "Okay"--there's no hint that she's aroused, wet, eager for penetration, etc. I attributed it to this being her first time,

I thought of her as somewhat out of it, loopy after the first orgasms. But this is possible a situation of under-egging the pudding.

Not even slightly as written, but it's a very very common phenomenon here that guys write women as just incredibly malleable, inherently 'submissive' and borderline having an acquired brain injury.

This was a fear of mine. I wanted to at le

 

[SaintDestiny]

Huh, respond got truncated at the end there. Weird. It was supposed to be:

Not even slightly as written, but it's a very very common phenomenon here that guys write women as just incredibly malleable, inherently 'submissive' and borderline having an acquired brain injury.

This was a fear of mine. I wanted to at least avoid the borderline brain injury, and maybe with more characterisation work myself up to a passable level. As I wrote first, I had a rough draft of a similar story that was in the man's point of view, but I abandoned it because I couldn't write her resistance well enough. Changing the perspective was an attempt to fix that major flaw.
Are there passages that stood out to you? Elements that were missing? Or can you point to stories that do it better that I can learn from?

 

[TheWritingGroup]

[pubic hair mysteriously absent]

I completely biffed that. I wanted to avoid the trope of a character starting off by describing themselves, and wanted more "natural" ways of introducing what she looks like. This is why I don't have Emily describe her own height. She pegs Frederick at 6'6'' and herself as a foot and a half lower.

Sure, but you could have her trimming it or refreshing her shave. You do think about your own personal grooming. Or you could have Frederick stroke either the hair or the bare skin, and introduce it that way.

 

[SaintDestiny]

Sure, but you could have her trimming it or refreshing her shave. You do think about your own personal grooming. Or you could have Frederick stroke either the hair or the bare skin, and introduce it that way.

That's true. If you're OK with it I might use that first suggestion. Since I need to edit in the HTML markup in, I might as well do another editing pass on the parts I haven't uploaded yet.
My own solution was to have another character comment on her lack of grooming in a later chapter where it fit in, but as I said, the real answer is that I should have mentioned it earlier, it just slipped my mind.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

That's true. If you're OK with it I might use that first suggestion. Since I need to edit in the HTML markup in, I might as well do another editing pass on the parts I haven't uploaded yet.

I'm flattered. Go for it.

 

[darwin1859]

About Sir, maybe you were spot on then. He comes off as creepy.

So if you can elaborate a bit, was the ick reaction to the inclusion at all (It sounds like it just doesn't appeal to you), or because a grown man is acting like this over a vulnerable teenager? Or both?

I was reflecting on why I chose "ick," and I think I can articulate that better. You were perfectly clear that Emily is 18, but if you made her 14 or 16 and if Literotica allowed it (which, it absolutely does not allow), I don't think you'd have to change many words in this story (you'd have to adjust how soon she's anticipating college). So, that's icky to me and to a lot of people. I have (also) an ideological stance against virginity being a big deal, and I am not drawn to that aspect of the story (the virginity fetish). But what specifically made me feel "icky" was that Emily was, in my opinion, written like a child, not a woman. Maybe that's just part 1 and in later parts we see her grow. I can see you arguing that her childish lack of agency came from sources other than immaturity, but I'm elaborating the ick reaction. Maybe this is what made me notice the lack of any discussion of her pubic hair, which honestly is otherwise a pretty trivial thing. And him baby-talking, and infantilizing her (and maybe that was only 1-2 lines) made that icky feeling worse.

BTW, I think good stories need heroes (or having a hero is a shortcut to having a more interesting story; villains also help, but you can get by without villains with misunderstandings and random/natural disasters). In a romance, both MCs are the heroes. So in R/NC, the dominant AND the submissive are often the heroes. Not always; sometimes the submissive is the hero. Maybe I also avoid R/NC stories where the dominant is the villain. Anyway, Sir is no hero and Emily didn't seem like a hero, so I was a little confused how to process your story. Again, maybe in later parts we see Emily grow into being the hero. Or she's rescued by a hero? Publishing in parts works against you if this is the case.

Some people want a "Hot" rating, which is 4.5 or higher. I was trying to understand why your rating was not "Hot." Your rating is 4.35. You had 7200 views. I usually assume 0.5% leave a rating, so that's 36 ratings, which isn't a trivial sample to evaluate an average. If everyone loved or hated it, that's 6 1-star ratings and 30 5-star ratings. The real data would be more mixed, but probably most people are giving you a high rating and some people are giving you a low rating. I was trying to determine why the low ratings? My best guesses are: (1) Maybe it's the naive, child-like way Emily is written. (2) Maybe it's the lack of a clear hero. (3) Maybe it's that your story departs from a "50-shades" template where there is romance with a power dynamic. Maybe all three. If this is an issue for you, I'd consider adding your own comment to your story requesting your reader's feedback.

Anyway, I don't want to leave you with the impression that you're a bad writer. I think 4.35 is a very good rating and I think it reflects your very good writing. I am honestly interested in where this story is going, how Mrs Sir will react, who the hero turns out to be, etc.

 

[darwin1859]

Huh, respond got truncated at the end there. Weird.

This forum software has an issue. Sometimes you'll see a message like, "Oops, there is an error." I associate it with editing a reply for a long time.

To fix this, you need to refresh the page (probably to refresh a session cookie, or something) and you will usually lose content when you refresh.

So, what I do is just highlight and copy my whole reply, hit refresh, then paste my reply (overwriting whatever stale content is shown).

It's annoying. There may be other solutions, but my work-around works for me 100% of the time.

 

[SaintDestiny]

Once again thank you for taking the time for an in-depth response.

About Sir, maybe you were spot on then. He comes off as creepy.
(...)
I was reflecting on why I chose "ick," and I think I can articulate that better. You were perfectly clear that Emily is 18, but

I absolutely see where you're coming from now that you elaborated. So to draw the curtain back a little bit: Frederick, in my authorial intent at least, has very few compunctions about age and consent. It's just easier for him to avoid repercussions if he follows the law. So in that view, your ick reaction is appropriate. It is intentional that he comes across as infantilising and creepy. Later stories will portray him disregarding very clearly expressed red lines. He may not be a rapist the way the law is constucted, but to borrow a phrase, there are more red flags around him than at a Communist rally.
This particular aspect came in part from a discussion about why usually older men pick up very young women, and a friend of mine said, basically, that women their own age are too wise for that shit.
Emily is a different story, and it may just be my lack of experience as a writer or because I'm a man. She was meant to come across as naïve, inexperienced, and (as is later revealed) deeply misinformed about sex ed for sure, and at least somewhat childish. But not as an actual child. That is unintentional, and something I need to keep in mind when I revisit the later parts.

So in R/NC, the dominant AND the submissive are often the heroes. Not always; sometimes the submissive is the hero. Maybe I also avoid R/NC stories where the dominant is the villain.

In that case, you may not enjoy the series. I'm just being forthright here: Frederick will not get better as a character, and he's an all-round manipulative villain.
I'm planning on 3-4 heroes, depending on how grey you accept your heroes and just where the writing takes me.

Some people want a "Hot" rating, which is 4.5 or higher.

46 ratings and an average of 4.37 is alright for a first story.

 

[darwin1859]

why usually older men pick up very young women, and a friend of mine said, basically, that women their own age are too wise for that shit.

Believe it or not, I also had a very similar conversation yesterday, about how icky it was that a coworker (~21F) was hooking up with a middle-aged guy. My friend said she thought it was "icky." I pointed out that robs the young woman of her agency, but my friend was not at all persuaded from feeling that it was "icky."

I started a story where a young woman waits until 10PM on the night before her 18TH birthday to go next door and throw/force herself upon a M30-ish neighbor crush. She has held off acting on her feelings until it's legal for him to sleep with her, and she feels that she cannot wait any longer. Pretty sure I'd have to edit it to be after midnight on her birthday to allow it to be published here. But what gives me pause in continuing the story is that I think a lot of people will have a "ick" reaction to that age gap and/or to simply having a "barely legal teen" protagonist, even if she's written with a lot of gumption. And I wouldn't feel that they were wrong.