For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Celand]

Enough said ! ( Pt 2)... an YOU paid for it

 

[Lazaran]

Enough said ! ( Pt 2)... an YOU paid for it

17 thousand (0.04%) of Ukraine’s (a CAPITALIST society) population are millionaires.

By contrast, 24 MILLION (8.5%) of America’s (ALSO a CAPITALIST society) population are millionaires.

And Ukraine has six billionaires, while the US has close to ONE THOUSAND.BILLIONAIRES.

If you want to argue that both countries have too much wealth inequality, we can have that discussion, but Ukraine is faaaaar from being out of line in the number of wealthy individuals at the top of their society.



Also:

Ukraine is literally holding back the Russian horde for the entire "free" west, while they also signed a mineral deal with the US that basically gives half ownership of Ukraine’s natural wealth to the US.

Ukraine isn’t being "given" anything.

Ukraine has “paid” for everything - in blood AND treasure.



Slava Ukraini!!!

 

[Celand]

Here is your special mention " the Russian horde", I recall in 2021 a spokesman the Azov battalion (and the Banderites... my addition) are protecting Europe from the "Mongolian hordes and the Judeo Bolsheviks from the East". However you may be right in one element, they likely will clear in the future Europe form the Islamic horde... So, Slava Ukraine

 

[Lazaran]

Here is your special mention " the Russian horde", I recall in 2021 a spokesman the Azov battalion (and the Banderites... my addition) are protecting Europe from the "Mongolian hordes and the Judeo Bolsheviks from the East". However you may be right in one element, they likely will clear in the future Europe form the Islamic horde... So, Slava Ukraine

Pro tip for Celand: Refrain from posting when you’re soused on your allotment of cheap Russian vodka…





Slava Ukraini!!!





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Rightguide]

You also said a bribe to Biden had something to do with it. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about here

Not concerning the course of the war, I didn't.

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[dmallord]

View attachment 2584061

Good day of hunting.

 

[Wilson23]

Not concerning the course of the war, I didn't.

Chloe's posts and links in this thread might overstate the case, but they didn't come out of nothing. How can you possibly believe Russia is winning this war?

 

[Rightguide]

Chloe's posts and links in this thread might overstate the case, but they didn't come out of nothing. How can you possibly believe Russia is winning this war?

Because wars aren’t scored by or won in wartime headlines or hashtags, they’re judged by territory, attrition, production, and political endurance, and on those metrics, Russia is ahead right now, whether people like it or not. Russia still controls and is fortifying large swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine, has not been strategically rolled back, and has adapted its economy and military production to a long war while Ukraine depends almost entirely on finite Western support that is politically fragile. Russia is outproducing Ukraine in artillery, missiles, and drones, and has deeper manpower reserves. Winning in Ukraine doesn’t mean “parading into Kyiv.” It means reducing the other side’s ability to fight. If Ukraine cannot retake lost territory and the West cannot or will not escalate indefinitely, then time favors Moscow. That’s not propaganda, it’s how wars of attrition work. I've said from the beginning, study Russian history, recall the battle of Stalingrad, and the great sacrifice the Russians committed themselves to in defeating the German Army. Attrition is their goal. You don’t have to like that reality. But disbelief isn’t a strategy, and wishful thinking has never stopped an army. The other glaring reality is that you haven't been told the truth.

 

[ll74]

Because wars aren’t scored by or won in wartime headlines or hashtags, they’re judged by territory, attrition, production, and political endurance, and on those metrics, Russia is ahead right now, whether people like it or not. Russia still controls and is fortifying large swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine, has not been strategically rolled back, and has adapted its economy and military production to a long war while Ukraine depends almost entirely on finite Western support that is politically fragile. Russia is outproducing Ukraine in artillery, missiles, and drones, and has deeper manpower reserves. Winning in Ukraine doesn’t mean “parading into Kyiv.” It means reducing the other side’s ability to fight. If Ukraine cannot retake lost territory and the West cannot or will not escalate indefinitely, then time favors Moscow. That’s not propaganda, it’s how wars of attrition work. I've said from the beginning, study Russian history, recall the battle of Stalingrad, and the great sacrifice the Russians committed themselves to in defeating the German Army. Attrition is their goal. You don’t have to like that reality. But disbelief isn’t a strategy, and wishful thinking has never stopped an army. The other glaring reality is that you haven't been told the truth.

So should Ukraine give up land they still control for peace?

 

[Rightguide]

So should Ukraine give up land they still control for peace?

If they want to keep what they still have, they should sue for peace. If they don't, it's only going to get worse. I told you this would be solved in the battlefield, and the solution is becoming apparent. They are being attrited.

 

[ll74]

If they want to keep what they still have, they should sue for peace. If they don't, it's only going to get worse. I told you this would be solved in the battlefield, and the solution is becoming apparent. They are being attrited.

So they should give up land they still control, with all of those people, to Russia, for peace.

Got it.

You know who decides whether they will? Ukranians.

 

[Rightguide]

So they should give up land they still control, with all of those people, to Russia, for peace.

Got it.

You know who decides whether they will? Ukranians.

Russia is likely to make a serious move on Odesa, and there are credible indications that preparations are already underway. If Odesa falls, Ukraine would be effectively cut off from the Black Sea, stripping it of maritime access, export capacity, and strategic depth. At that point, Ukraine would be reduced to a landlocked, economically dependent rump state, permanently vulnerable to Russian pressure.

Moscow has shown little interest in occupying or governing western Ukraine or the regions north of the Dnieper. Its apparent objective is strategic control, not total conquest. Control of Odesa alone would give Russia decisive leverage over Ukraine’s economy and future viability. What follows politically is unclear. Zelensky’s legitimacy already rests on wartime emergency powers rather than elections. If elections were held today, it is entirely plausible that a war-weary population would vote him out in favor of a government seeking an end to the conflict, rather than the continuation of a grinding war with ever-diminishing prospects.

 

[Rightguide]

You know who decides whether they will? Ukranians.

That sounds empowering, but it misunderstands how wars actually end. Ukrainians decide whether they resist, they do not unilaterally decide the outcome. Outcomes are determined by a brutal mix of material power, manpower, industrial capacity, external support, geography, and time. No nation, however determined, gets to vote its way out of physics, logistics, or attrition. If willpower alone decided wars, Poland wouldn’t have fallen in 1939, Hungary wouldn’t have been crushed in 1956, and Afghanistan would have defeated every invader without outside aid. Courage matters, but it is not sovereign.

 

[ll74]

That sounds empowering, but it misunderstands how wars actually end.

It doesn't misunderstand anything. Ukranians will determine whether they give up their own land for peace. .it's aa simple as that.

Ukrainians decide whether they resist, they do not unilaterally decide the outcome.

They are the ones who will accept or reject any deal.

Outcomes are determined by a brutal mix of material power, manpower, industrial capacity, external support, geography, and time. No nation, however determined, gets to vote its way out of physics, logistics, or attrition. If willpower alone decided wars, Poland wouldn’t have fallen in 1939, Hungary wouldn’t have been crushed in 1956, and Afghanistan would have defeated every invader without outside aid. Courage matters, but it is not sovereign.

Poland fell territorily but the country eventually prevailed with the will of the people and help from allies.

The country will decide it's fate

..not Putin.

 

[Rightguide]

It doesn't misunderstand anything. Ukranians will determine whether they give up their own land for peace. .it's aa simple as that.



They are the ones who will accept or reject any deal.


Poland fell territorily but the country eventually prevailed with the will of the people and help from allies.

The country will decide it's fate

..not Putin.

You should learn how to listen to something other than your heart. You don’t actually look at reality, you listen to your feelings and think of it as wisdom. When data, evidence, or hard numbers show up, you wave them away and consult your heart like it’s an oracle. Your conclusions never change because they were never built on reality in the first place; they’re built on how things make you feel. That may be comforting, but it isn’t thinking. Emotion isn’t analysis, sincerity isn’t accuracy, and conviction doesn’t magically outweigh evidence on the field of battle. If feelings decided reality, we wouldn’t need facts at all, and yet here we are, still governed by them whether you acknowledge them or not.

 

[ll74]

You should learn how to listen to something other than your heart.

I'm observing Ukranian law.
The Ukranoan people decide.
The President cannot actually do so.

You don’t actually look at reality, you listen to your feelings and think of it as wisdom. When data, evidence, or hard numbers show up, you wave them away and consult your heart like it’s an oracle. Your conclusions never change because they were never built on reality in the first place; they’re built on how things make you feel. That may be comforting, but it isn’t thinking. Emotion isn’t analysis, sincerity isn’t accuracy, and conviction doesn’t magically outweigh evidence on the field of battle. If feelings decided reality, we wouldn’t need facts at all, and yet here we are, still governed by them whether you acknowledge them or not.

Putin can continue his war, but he cannot force land forfeiture that he does not control. He can either fight for it or he can get Ukranians to accept his proposal.

That's just a simple reality.

 

[Rightguide]

The Ukraine war was always about mathematics and material realities, not slogans or sentiment. It is a contest of manpower, industrial output, logistics, geography, and time, equations that don’t bend to moral enthusiasm or media narratives. Artillery barrels wear out, stockpiles empty, populations age, and supply lines stretch whether anyone approves or not. In the end, wars are decided by who can replace losses faster, sustain pressure longer, and absorb punishment without political collapse. Everything else is commentary layered on top of the math. That is the truth.

 

[Rightguide]

I'm observing Ukranian law.
The Ukranoan people decide.
The President cannot actually do so.


Putin can continue his war, but he cannot force land forfeiture that he does not control. He can either fight for it or he can get Ukranians to accept his proposal.

That's just a simple reality.

Even legally, he's on shaky ground, but it is what it is.

Putin doesn’t need Ukrainians to accept anything for land forfeiture to occur. He needs to hold territory long enough that the other side cannot retake it and external backers lose the will to keep funding the attempt. At that point, reality, not consent, does the work. History is full of borders changed without plebiscites, signatures, or moral agreement.

The simple reality is this: Wars are decided by who can impose facts faster than the other side can undo them. Legitimacy arguments come after the shooting stops, not before.

 

[ll74]

Even legally, he's on shaky ground, but it is what it is.

No he isn't. He's the President of the country per the Ukranian Constitution.

Putin doesn’t need Ukrainians to accept anything for land forfeiture to occur.

Of course he does.

Unless he wants to keep fighting, he absolutely needs them to accept his offer.

He needs to hold territory long enough that the other side cannot retake it and external backers lose the will to keep funding the attempt. At that point, reality, not consent, does the work. History is full of borders changed without plebiscites, signatures, or moral agreement.

At that point Ukraine needs to accept terms of surrender.

The simple reality is this: Wars are decided by who can impose facts faster than the other side can undo them. Legitimacy arguments come after the shooting stops, not before.

If Ukraine wants to continue fighting then they will.

 

[Wilson23]

Because wars aren’t scored by or won in wartime headlines or hashtags, they’re judged by territory, attrition, production, and political endurance, and on those metrics, Russia is ahead right now, whether people like it or not. Russia still controls and is fortifying large swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine, has not been strategically rolled back, and has adapted its economy and military production to a long war while Ukraine depends almost entirely on finite Western support that is politically fragile. Russia is outproducing Ukraine in artillery, missiles, and drones, and has deeper manpower reserves. Winning in Ukraine doesn’t mean “parading into Kyiv.” It means reducing the other side’s ability to fight. If Ukraine cannot retake lost territory and the West cannot or will not escalate indefinitely, then time favors Moscow. That’s not propaganda, it’s how wars of attrition work. I've said from the beginning, study Russian history, recall the battle of Stalingrad, and the great sacrifice the Russians committed themselves to in defeating the German Army. Attrition is their goal. You don’t have to like that reality. But disbelief isn’t a strategy, and wishful thinking has never stopped an army. The other glaring reality is that you haven't been told the truth.

Cloe, is all that true?

 

[Rightguide]

No he isn't. He's the President of the country per the Ukranian Constitution.

Show me that part of article 157 of the Ukrainian Constitution that permits amendments during martial law. Experts argue that the Constitution does not explicitly authorize an extension of the 5-year term even under martial law, and that Article 103 doesn’t provide for term prolongation without elections. You should probably research those points as well. I don't think his claims are as clean as you think. But, it is what it is. He is the leader until he decides to take his loot and bug out for somewhere safe.

Earlier, you mentioned Poland. Have you heard there may have been as many as 10,000 dead Polish mercenaries on the field in Ukraine? I wonder how many Americans and European mercenaries are being employed there. You know they are not protected by the laws of War and most likely will be imprisoned or executed upon capture.

 

[Wilson23]

Earlier, you mentioned Poland. Have you heard there may have been as many as 10,000 dead Polish mercenaries on the field in Ukraine? I wonder how many Americans and European mercenaries are being employed there. You know they are not protected by the laws of War and most likely will be imprisoned or executed upon capture.

Of course they are protected by the laws of war. It's not like Blackwater came in with its own merc regiment. These are only individual foreigners who joined the Ulkrainian Army, and are paid no more than Ukrainians.

 

[Rightguide]

Of course they are protected by the laws of war. It's not like Blackwater came in with its own merc regiment. These are only individual foreigners who joined the Ulkrainian Army, and are paid no more than Ukrainians.

Why do you continue to spout your complete ignorance?

Under international humanitarian law (IHL), specifically Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions (Article 47), mercenaries:
Do not have lawful combatant status, Do not qualify for POW protections, May be prosecuted under domestic law if captured. I will expect your apology after you read it.

 

[Wilson23]

Why do you continue to spout your complete ignorance?

Under international humanitarian law (IHL), specifically Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions (Article 47), mercenaries:
Do not have lawful combatant status, Do not qualify for POW protections, May be prosecuted under domestic law if captured. I will expect your apology after you read it.

But these are not mercenaries. They're only foreign soldiers in Ukrainian uniform. There are many foreigners in the U.S. Army -- they ain't mercs, and it is no war crime to employ them.