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fraud in mail in voting - prove it

Prove that there is such a thing as identity theft...

Have you ever heard of identity theft? Never happens? You need proof that it is a problem? If you are aware of how serious identity theft is then you no doubt realize that mail in voting would be a very soft target for creeps. And yes, we live in a world where there are lots of creeps. That is the reason people need to show I.D. for all kinds of things. How can this even be a boggling question for some?
 
kissedcherry said:
Have you ever heard of identity theft? Never happens? You need proof that it is a problem? If you are aware of how serious identity theft is then you no doubt realize that mail in voting would be a very soft target for creeps. And yes, we live in a world where there are lots of creeps. That is the reason people need to show I.D. for all kinds of things. How can this even be a boggling question for some?
Click to expand...

There is plenty of proof that identity thief is a problem, but absolutely none for voter fraud on the level that those who oppose mail-in voting insist there is and will be. The problem with your logic is that the vast majority of identity thief is computer-based. With a hacking program they can steal hundreds or thousands of identities and electronically scam money from those identities.

Mail-in ballots are paper. It requires an actual person to fill out and SIGN the ballot before mailing it back. They would have to 1) gather ballots. To do that you would need a few hundred or thousand people to acquire them. 2) Fill them out and mail them back. That would take hundreds of people to do the thousands of ballots required to swing an election.

Oregon has had all mail-in voting for 20 years, Washington state for a decade. After the 2016 election they both did an investigation the donald demanded. If there were thousands of people involved in voter fraud you would think that they would find at least an inkling of it. They didn't. Your logic doesn't hold up and you haven't presented ANY proof that mail-in voting would be subject to the fraud you insist it will be.

If you think you can come up with actual proof, please feel free to try again.


Comshaw
 
If you can add 2+2, and come up with a whole number between 3 and 5, you may understand the significance of the attached link.

For those of you who can’t ‘cypher it on out, move along.....move along......There is nothing to see here......

“David Stephen Bangs II, 34, of Henderson, was sentenced Thursday to six months in federal prison to be followed by one year of supervised release for stealing mail while employed as a contract mail carrier by the U.S. Postal Service.“


https://www.ktnv.com/news/crime/nev...prison-for-stealing-opening-70-pieces-of-mail
 
The OP, and the democrats in general, have painted themselves into a corner with this line of thought.

First of all, voter fraud does occur. That has been amply demonstrated in this thread and throughout history time and time again. Their counter is, "well that's just small shit." And in many cases they're right. But in battle ground states only a few votes in a few select precincts can turn an election. Fraud does not have to occur on a wholesale basis. Remember the election of 2000? The entire election turned in the vote in Palm Beach County FL. Targeted election fraud occurs and can be quite effective, especially in local and state elections.

Next up is the logical quandary the OP and the democrats find themselves in. Even if no examples of fraud were produced they find themselves in the position of trying to assert that something didn't happen which is logically the same as trying to prove a negative, it can't be done. Once more, assuming that no evidence was produced that voter fraud took place, they are still backed into the corner of trying to prove it NEVER took place. It can't be done and they will never have any hope of proving that it didn't.

Their assertion is that every franchised citizen should be able to vote. And on that point they have my full agreement. But every citizen that votes should be able to prove that they are a franchised citizen, that they are who they say they are, and that they vote only once. Apparently I'm asking far too much.
 
The dems will discover voter fraud, should Biden lose the election, and especially if it’s a close loss. Then, those little low percentage fraudulent votes, which are so negligible, will suddenly be a major crisis, and the most important topic of the day.

They will be screaming like a potato sack full of mashed cats, and the performance will make Gore/Bush and the hanging chads look like amateur hour.

Funny how that works......
Just a guess.
 
A New Jersey election has been invalidated by a judge, and a new election has been ordered to be held, due to rampant mail-in voter fraud.

On Wednesday, State Superior Court Judge Ernest Caposela ruled that the election for a Paterson City Council seat had been irreversibly tainted. A new election has been ordered to take place in November.
The mayor of Paterson praised the ruling. “It was the right ruling,” Mayor Andre Sayegh told CNN. “That past election was fraught with fraud.”

https://pjmedia.com/election/matt-m...bd8152518e992eb6f9d8034281dfdf4e&recip=693665
 
bellisarius said:
The OP, and the democrats in general, have painted themselves into a corner with this line of thought.

First of all, voter fraud does occur. That has been amply demonstrated in this thread and throughout history time and time again. Their counter is, "well that's just small shit." And in many cases they're right. But in battle ground states only a few votes in a few select precincts can turn an election. Fraud does not have to occur on a wholesale basis. Remember the election of 2000? The entire election turned in the vote in Palm Beach County FL. Targeted election fraud occurs and can be quite effective, especially in local and state elections.

Next up is the logical quandary the OP and the democrats find themselves in. Even if no examples of fraud were produced they find themselves in the position of trying to assert that something didn't happen which is logically the same as trying to prove a negative, it can't be done. Once more, assuming that no evidence was produced that voter fraud took place, they are still backed into the corner of trying to prove it NEVER took place. It can't be done and they will never have any hope of proving that it didn't.

Their assertion is that every franchised citizen should be able to vote. And on that point they have my full agreement. But every citizen that votes should be able to prove that they are a franchised citizen, that they are who they say they are, and that they vote only once. Apparently I'm asking far too much.
Click to expand...

If you would be so kind as to reread my post you'll find I NEVER insisted there was no voter fraud, I only insisted that no one who opposes mail-in voting can provide proof there is voter fraud on a level that would influence an election. NOT ONE OF YOU!

But since you have so many errors in your post, let's take them one at a time shall we?

First up is your insistence I have put myself in a position to try to prove a negative.
I am really not sure where you came up with that, but I have to say I agree that can not be done. The opposite isn't true though. You and the ultra-conservative right have insisted there has been massive voter fraud and will be worst in the coming election. If that's true, it can be proven and I believe that's exactly what I asked you to do.
Since I can't prove a negative, where is your proof that it has and will happen? WHERE?

Your attempt at trying to change the gist of my original post from you proving there was to me proving there can't be was a rather transparent attempt. And ineffectual as well as a rather underhanded tactic even for you.

You also try to move the goalposts from "massive voter fraud" which is what has been claimed by you and your compatriots, to "even small instances of fraud can affect the election". Again a rather transparent and underhanded attempt on your part.

Small amounts of fraud could affect this coming election, but do you believe after watching the debacle in the 2000 election if it is that close that ANY fraudulent votes will slip past? If you're honest you know they won't. Neither side will let it happen.

Besides even if there were a few fraudulent votes, it would be very few. Why do I say that? Well according to the Freedom Foundation there have only been 1,722 proven instances of voter fraud since 1979. 1,722 instances out of how many billions of votes?

If that's not enough chew on this, the states with the strictest voting rules have the most voter fraud:

..."If widespread use of mail ballots truly did engender fraud, one would expect that the instance of such kinds of fraud would be lower in the 16 states that strictly regulated absentee balloting as opposed to the 28 states, which allowed anyone to vote absentee (“no excuse” absentee voting states) or the five states that automatically mailed ballots to all voters for them to mail back or drop off (“vote-by-mail” states).

Instead, the opposite is true. An examination of the Heritage Foundation database for the period 2000-2020 shows that reported instances of such fraud per capita are actually higher in “strict” states than either “no excuse” states or complete “vote by mail” states.

For these types of fraud, within the 29 “no-excuse” absentee states, there was one reported fraud case for every 2.4 million persons. This compared favorably to one such case for every 1.6 million persons in “vote by mail” states, and even more favorably than the strict states, with one fraud case for every 740,000 persons. Although mail ballot fraud was by no means frequent in any of the states, it was actually more common in the states that took the stricter, more Trump-favored approach."...


https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/494649-the-voter-fraud-fraud

With all that said, back to the original question: Where is your proof mail-in voting is rife with fraud? Can you provide such proof? Yea or nay?

Comshaw
 
A large number of countries have postal voting, one of the major reasons given being that it tends to prevent voting fraud and especially voter intimidation. Australia has had it in place for 117 years with no significant problems.

By far the largest democratic votes in the world are the General Elections in India. Direct voter intimidation there is a real problem but their system works pretty well to combat the issue. Four times as many voters as the USA, they also have a far higher % of their electorate actually voting (67%) than occurs in the USA.

However, the only major party I could find that was against postal voting in any of these countries was the Communist Party of India - strange bedfellows for Mr Trump!

I suspect that The USA might be able to catch up with India on this issue. :)

90% of all votes in Switzerland are by post.
 
OldJourno said:
A New Jersey election has been invalidated by a judge, and a new election has been ordered to be held, due to rampant mail-in voter fraud.

On Wednesday, State Superior Court Judge Ernest Caposela ruled that the election for a Paterson City Council seat had been irreversibly tainted. A new election has been ordered to take place in November.
The mayor of Paterson praised the ruling. “It was the right ruling,” Mayor Andre Sayegh told CNN. “That past election was fraught with fraud.”

https://pjmedia.com/election/matt-m...bd8152518e992eb6f9d8034281dfdf4e&recip=693665
Click to expand...

You do realize of course that this is proof that voter fraud doesn't affect elections because when it happens it is discovered and dealt with don't you? Come to think of it, maybe you don't.

Comshaw
 
Donald Trump votes by mail. I'm sure that's good enough for the Trumpettes.
 
Comshaw said:
You do realize of course that this is proof that voter fraud doesn't affect elections because when it happens it is discovered and dealt with don't you? Come to think of it, maybe you don't.

Comshaw
Click to expand...



IF it is discovered...

IF you are admitting that it happens,
THEN you must consider the possibility that it is not always detected.
 
But but but but but but...that IS all they have. They say so...therefore, it is. Fucking stupid boomers.
 
Some morons continue to ignore that their President has already admitted that if votes by mail are widespread he can’t win.

Yet they continue to deflect and distract with all their what ifs.
 
Comshaw said:
You do realize of course that this is proof that voter fraud doesn't affect elections because when it happens it is discovered and dealt with don't you? Come to think of it, maybe you don't.

Comshaw
Click to expand...

ONLY if you operate on the assumption that we catch 100% of it.

All or none is almost always a rather absurd presumption....especially when it comes to human behavior.
 
Last edited:
Adre said:
Some morons continue to ignore that their President has already admitted that if votes by mail are widespread he can’t win.

Yet they continue to deflect and distract with all their what ifs.
Click to expand...

it's not being ignored it's just not really relevant to the conversation....it's just another "orange man BAD!!!" from Adre.
 
FescueFan said:
ONLY if you operate on the assumption that we catch 100% of it.

All or none is almost always a rather absurd presumption....especially when it comes to human behavior.
Click to expand...

And in this thread we're getting a lot of that...

THERE IS NONE! PROVE IT!

YOU JUST PROVED THAT WE CATCH IT...



:eek:



... oh, I forget, we have none...
 
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