Giuliani Finally Says What I've Said For Years

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

Socialism fails as a more productive system when compared to free enterprise, always. Free enterprise has made America the most powerful country on earth, Socialism in it's varying degrees and domestic applications has diminished America.

Those European countries you admire so much can only exist in their present state under the protective umbrella of American military power. As will be shown in the near future, they will be unable to defend themselves against coming Russian aggression.

That's simply American propaganda and you know it. America has never had truly free enterprise and never will because it's an inefficient system at best. There is a sweet spot and we are well the right of it right now.

The coming Russian Aggression? Yeah, keep fighting the cold war my man. There isn't anything stopping them from spending MORE on their militaries by the way, they simply choose not to.

Also what's your excuse for how Russia is all things considered a large economy with a powerful military? And who knows how long they might have survived intact as the USSR if they hadn't gotten caught up in the military race with the US and constantly propping up little countries?

 

[unregistered]

 

[BotanyBoy]

What brought on the industrial revolution was free enterprise.

Jesus Christ the stupid..... lmfao...

Go back to the 5th grade you fucking retard....THERE HAS NEVER BEEN FREE ENTERPRISE OR A FREE MARKET IN THE US....EVER...NOT A SINGLE FUCKING ONE....MORON.

He's so fucking brainwashed he's beyond help....fuck em' he's like my grampy just totally out of touch with the real world and eternally stuck in a 60's propaganda film.

 

[RobDownSouth]

What brought on the industrial revolution was free enterprise. Government bureaucracy of all types was minuscule in size, nature, and authority.

You truly are one ignorant son of a whore.

Many historians date the beginning of the Industrial Revolution with the British government enacting protectionist legislation known as the Calico Acts, which prohibited the import of finished textiles into England.

This "government interference" in the marketplace created tremendous demand for British textiles, and after having wrung every last ounce of productivity out of existing textile manufacturing processes, companies began to innovate.

 

[Wrong Element]

Obama has been President in my time here...

Was it just like this with Bush, except everyone who is on the attack was then on the defensive?

Interesting to see what the board will be like at the end of 2016....

AJ in particular swears this is the case -- that the amount of "Bush hate" on Lit back in the day completely dwarfed the amount of Obama hate now -- but all you have to do is look at the post counts of AJ, busybody, Vette, and the late unlamented koalabear and the post counts of the more prominent lefty posters to get an idea of how unlikely this is.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

AJ in particular swears this is the case -- that the amount of "Bush hate" on Lit back in the day completely dwarfed the amount of Obama hate now -- but all you have to do is look at the post counts of AJ, busybody, Vette, and the late unlamented koalabear and the post counts of the more prominent lefty posters to get an idea of how unlikely this is.

I came in at the 2.5 year tail end of Dubya and I know just from that sample size that their "it was soooo much worse!" screeching shit is bunk.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Obama has been President in my time here...

Was it just like this with Bush, except everyone who is on the attack was then on the defensive?

Interesting to see what the board will be like at the end of 2016....

Nope, this was a whole new level of hatred. If you've spent any time around the GB and new Political Board you know for a fact that the Right simply has a damn good monopoly on crazy. Sure we have Trouvure (sorta) and LT/LJReloaded but Trouv pretty much does race and economics, LT rages against women, whites and when he has time the gross concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few. But nothing that compares with miles, Vette, Busybody, Neverendingme/Jeninflorida, or Koalabear. At least Vette can often be readable the the rest are just trolls. Ishmael used to be able to hold a conversation but. . .not so much.

At the end of 2016 it depends. If it's Hillary or by some act of God Warren (who likely won't run but who knows, nobody really saw Obama coming.) expect explosions . If some random white male democrat wins it'll be loud but nothing compared to this because this has never been about Obama's character or qualifications.

If it's Republican they'll be some silence, some half assed congratulations, the usual gloating about the will of the American people and then things will largely turn into "what are we going to do now" followed perhaps by some dialogue depending on what happens over the first six months.

What brought on the industrial revolution was free enterprise. Government bureaucracy of all types was minuscule in size, nature, and authority. Much of the bureaucratic notions vis a vis the economy of FDR was found unconstitutional. After WWII America was at the pinnacle of world power. What followed the firing of ten million government employees by Harry Truman, was massive economic growth in the civil society and an unprecedented quality of life for Americans. The subsequent growth of government has brought on our decline. There is no question.

The world was a vastly different place at the time of the Industrial Revolution, ignoring as Rob already pointed out about the Calico Acts, the fact is you can't compare pre-industrial revolution to post with any accuracy or honesty.

Yes, much of what FDR did was ultimately found unconstitutional for various reasons, that's not to say none of it worked. The man got elected four times and the Right had to call in a favor from the Grim Reaper to get rid of him. Because the average citizen DID see their lives improving under him.

Yes, Truman downsized the military during the post war and other people who had been necessary to fight a World War, we don't live in that world right now. There was no massive (overnight) increase in government. It crept in and is basically normal for us. If we'd spent the last 5 years spending the modern equivalent of WWII on men aged 18-30 we'd be deep(er) in debt right now but far better off.

The growth of the government has not brought our decline by any means anybody has ever stated specifically. There is though Leviathan will eat you quote but it doesn't really mean anything.

Watch what happens in the Ukraine. European governments in the Baltic States are preparing for Russian aggression as we speak. They are presently asking Obama for American assurances to aid in their defense. Poland has moved thousands of troops from the West to their Eastern Border. The U.S. has moves 300 troops and squadron of F-16s into Poland. Yes, it's just cold war mentality.

I will watch what happens in the Ukraine. But just for the record is Russia a failed state that was going to collapse on it's own and we basically burnt a lot of money and lives on something that couldn't sustain itself in the first fucking place, or are the the big bad wolf. It seems they change from one to the other at the drop of a hat.

Actually for most of my life the old Soviet Union was in reality a Third World country with nuclear weapons, like India. Even today they are quite backward, but they have benefited economically from throwing off Communism. They are harmed however by having a former Communist with dreams of the old days running their country.

Ok a failed, third world Super Power with a sphere of influence depending on who you ask half the world or more. Cus. . .that'd DAMN impressive. I mean holy shit. They were winning the Space Race for a long time, were roughly on par with with technology wise. I hope one day Mexico or someplace in Africa fails as hard as the USSR did.

And I didn't say Communism was perfect or even good, only that our current mix of economies is not working for the average American and its NOT the result of too much government or too many unions. IT's largely that we have nobody to go to bat for us and no way to bat for ourselves.

 

[LadyVer]

I have a problem with someone who claims he's the proto-patriotic American and yet he can't stop screwing around on his wives/gfs. He says Obama is un-American.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Obama has been President in my time here...

Was it just like this with Bush, except everyone who is on the attack was then on the defensive?

Kinda, but not nearly this bad. AFAIK, no Congressional Dems set out from Day One to make W a one-term POTUS as their highest priority. It seemed time for a change anyway after 8 years of Clinton (not that anyone but wingnuts was deeply dissatisfied with anything but his sexual conduct and dishonesty about same). After the fuss about the 2000 election settled down, everyone was more or less willing to move on from that and give Bush a chance -- he seemed to be mostly harmless for a Republican POTUS, at any rate -- and after 9/11 he actually looked like a leader if you kind of squinted, so he got a rally-'round-the-flag popularity boost -- and it was like that until we got into Iraq, and then we found out that Cheney is the moral equivalent of the Antichrist and was playing Edgar Bergen to W's Charlie McCarthy, or, rather, Mortimer Snerd. Most of the really serious W-hate dates from after that. And the ultimately disastrous effects of his economic policies didn't help any.

It was something like the present environment when Clinton took over from Bush Sr. There seemed from the beginning of his first term to be a feeling among conservatives that he had to be a crook, that his presidency was somehow illegitimate, that after the Reagan Revolution no Dem could legitimately be POTUS, it was an impossible reversal of history, like a Jacobite restoration. (Rush Limbaugh always opened his short-lived TV show with "Day [X of the Clinton Administration]! America Held Hostage!") Bill came in for all kinds of crazy crime/conspiracy theories, like Vince Foster and Whitewater (Ken Starr's years-long investigation of which turned up a blowjob from an intern and nothing else). But, Obama has been getting it a lot worse.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Granted I was IN Iraq for the beginning but I don't think the majority (even amongst Dems) really got upset about the Iraq War until it became crystal clear that we had been some combination of lied to or lead by someone who either didn't see or didn't want to see the truth.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Granted I was IN Iraq for the beginning but I don't think the majority (even amongst Dems) really got upset about the Iraq War until it became crystal clear that we had been some combination of lied to or lead by someone who either didn't see or didn't want to see the truth.

That, and, until it became clear we had mired ourselves in an expensive, dangerous and intractable quagmire with no clear way out.

 

[Sean Renaud]

And it seems as I recall that a lot of the "anger" directed at Bush retroactive. And by anger I mean constant things that had come up during his time in office that nobody had given a shit about until Obama did something similar and it became a case of "Well why the fuck does this matter, Bush had the same/similar policy. And that was anger at Republicans.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And it seems as I recall that a lot of the "anger" directed at Bush retroactive. And by anger I mean constant things that had come up during his time in office that nobody had given a shit about until Obama did something similar and it became a case of "Well why the fuck does this matter, Bush had the same/similar policy. And that was anger at Republicans.

LOL

PATRIOT Act when Bush did it = "IF YEWW DON'T WHANNA STAND WITH ARR TREWPS YOU CAN STAND IN FRONT OF EM'!!"

PATRIOT Act under Obama= "I won't have my civil liberties violated by no damn nigra!!! Tha fuck don't yaw'll understayaund bout' WHITE haus hua? That shit is treason I tell ya...UNCONSTITUTIONAL!! If you don't impeach him then kenyan death squads will be dispatched to rape grandma, I'm not racist because once I had a black friend and that's a fact!! "

 

[Sean Renaud]

LOL

PATRIOT Act when Bush did it = "IF YEWW DON'T WHANNA STAND WITH ARR TREWPS YOU CAN STAND IN FRONT OF EM'!!"

PATRIOT Act under Obama= "I won't have my civil liberties violated by no damn nigra!!! Tha fuck don't yaw'll understayaund bout' WHITE haus hua? That shit is treason I tell ya...UNCONSTITUTIONAL!! If you don't impeach him then kenyan death squads will be dispatched to rape grandma and that's a fact!! "

I think my two new favorite ones are Obama's bad for not opening his transcripts but Walker's okay as a college drop out and Cruz was born whar? But he has American PArents it's all good.

For the record while I think it's insane to let a college drop out run for major political office if Wisconsin is sitting pretty near the end of the year, by all means. I don't care if you were a porn star who dropped out of middle school if you can clearly govern. (How you got the chance in the first place is baffling but past that play ball.) and the rule about being born in the US is outdated and dumb.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I think my two new favorite ones are Obama's bad for not opening his transcripts but Walker's okay as a college drop out and Cruz was born whar? But he has American PArents it's all good.

For the record while I think it's insane to let a college drop out run for major political office if Wisconsin is sitting pretty near the end of the year, by all means. I don't care if you were a porn star who dropped out of middle school if you can clearly govern. (How you got the chance in the first place is baffling but past that play ball.) and the rule about being born in the US is outdated and dumb.

LOL yea that one made me laugh too, college transcripts were the end all be all right up until they chose a quitter as their darling child.

And I agree with you on the rest of it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

LOL yea that one made me laugh too, college transcripts were the end all be all right up until they chose a quitter as their darling child.

And I agree with you on the rest of it.

Oh, yes, about that . . .

 

[dan_c00000]

Oh, yes, about that . . .

The GOP folks are still upset they got beat by a black guy, twice.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

As one of my perfessers usta say. IF YOU WERE LOST IN THE EVERGLADES WOULDJUH WANT A PERFESSER WHO KNOWS ALL ABOUT SEMINOLES TO COME LOOK FOR YOU, OR A DUM SHIT SEMINOLE WHO KNOWS ALL ABOUT THE EVERGLADES?

 

[unregistered]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What brought on the industrial revolution was free enterprise. Government bureaucracy of all types was minuscule in size, nature, and authority. Much of the bureaucratic notions vis a vis the economy of FDR was found unconstitutional. After WWII America was at the pinnacle of world power. What followed the firing of ten million government employees by Harry Truman, was massive economic growth in the civil society and an unprecedented quality of life for Americans. The subsequent growth of government has brought on our decline. There is no question.



Watch what happens in the Ukraine. European governments in the Baltic States are preparing for Russian aggression as we speak. They are presently asking Obama for American assurances to aid in their defense. Poland has moved thousands of troops from the West to their Eastern Border. The U.S. has moves 300 troops and squadron of F-16s into Poland. Yes, it's just cold war mentality.





Actually for most of my life the old Soviet Union was in reality a Third World country with nuclear weapons, like India. Even today they are quite backward, but they have benefited economically from throwing off Communism. They are harmed however by having a former Communist with dreams of the old days running their country.

Youre right as you normally are. Folks need to read Anthony Daniels' books about the Workers Utopias when our Lib perfessers worshipped Stalin and Mao. Their libraries rivaled Hillary's stacks of autobiographys, their stores were usually out of the one cigarette or beer or jelly shoe they made and sold. Medical care was a clipboard and sign up sheet, 2 aspirin, and a monthly visit by a kid with a First Aid card.

My son in law told me plenty of goods were available if you were VIP enough but you couldn't get in the doors of the stores reserved for VIPS. And he was tossed outta school at 12 to harvest beets. The did not suffer juvenile ass heads as the West does.

Its what liberal America wants.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Yes I should have said led and nurtured the Industrial Revolution in America. Your points are only incidental to my point, that freedom, free enterprise, and capitalism, stoked the revolution here like nowhere else on earth.

The Industrial Revolution happened in Britain and Germany and even France before it happened here. What accounts for that?

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

What accounts for the tremendous explosion of American industrial technology and productivity in the late 19th Century and on into the 20th Century? Why did millions upon millions beat a path to these doors? I'll tell you, a kind of freedom and opportunity that didn't exist anywhere else.

In the early years of the U.S., the strongest voice for "freedom" in your terms was Jefferson, who was an ideological agrarian. The strongest voice for industrial development was Hamilton, who was an authoritarian statist (he wanted government "bounties," subsidies, to encourage infant industries). Jefferson prevailed and industry was delayed. When it did eventually emerge, federal support for it (in the form of infrastructure funding and protective tariffs -- and, in the Civil War, direct government contracting) was always at least as important a factor as "freedom." See the American System, just to start with. See also Land of Promise: An Economic History of the United States, by Michael Lind.

 

[Sean Renaud]

What accounts for the tremendous explosion of American industrial technology and productivity in the late 19th Century and on into the 20th Century? Why did millions upon millions beat a path to these doors? I'll tell you, a kind of freedom and opportunity that didn't exist anywhere else.

Superior access to natural resources, less concentrated wealth (prior to the Industrial Revolution) much more space where you just had to go a little farther West than the last guy to claim your own space and be an independent man something that wasn't possible at all in Europe. Yes, we had economic opportunity that didn't exist elsewhere, but it wasn't anything we did. It was where we were for the most part.