God is dead. There is no point to this, not really.
- Thread starter KillerMuffin
- Start date
The flaw in this theory is it presumes there ever was a god which is irrational from the outset based on religious dichotomies.KillerMuffin said:
Take a look at the URL below for a little encouragement that you've found your mind, not lost it.
http://religion.aynrand.org/
CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
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Oh, I agree with you -- but remember, the official line is that God is all good.
From that we can argue that "all good" really means "all that is." I can buy that; the Ebola virus is as good as a flower or a saint or plankton. It is Creation; it is God; it is part of All That Is.
Not everyone sees it that way, though. Darn it.
From that we can argue that "all good" really means "all that is." I can buy that; the Ebola virus is as good as a flower or a saint or plankton. It is Creation; it is God; it is part of All That Is.
Not everyone sees it that way, though. Darn it.
Weird Harold
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Re: Re: Honestly?
I don't remember where I read it, but "If there are ten witnesses to an event, there will be eleven different versions of what happened."
That was a twentieth century observation, but I don't think the basic nature of people has changed so much since they appeared on Earth that it hasn't always been true.
Whatever the "truth" of God is, it is perceived differently by every individual person. Organized religions developed because people have a basic need to share their experiences with others, and when enough people share similar perceptions, they band together.
My problem with "organized religion" is not with the philosophies as they are written, but with the hypocrites that band together to ignore them.
The most "Christian" person I ever met was a Mormon. The least "Christian" person I ever met was also a Mormon. When that realization combined with an adult perception of the back-stabbing and sniping of the "righteous churchladies" in the church I grew up in, I lost any respect for those who loudly proclaim their "goodness" by citing their membership in an organized religion.
I judge people by their actions, and hope they will return the courtesy.
Angel said:
I don't remember where I read it, but "If there are ten witnesses to an event, there will be eleven different versions of what happened."
That was a twentieth century observation, but I don't think the basic nature of people has changed so much since they appeared on Earth that it hasn't always been true.
Whatever the "truth" of God is, it is perceived differently by every individual person. Organized religions developed because people have a basic need to share their experiences with others, and when enough people share similar perceptions, they band together.
My problem with "organized religion" is not with the philosophies as they are written, but with the hypocrites that band together to ignore them.
The most "Christian" person I ever met was a Mormon. The least "Christian" person I ever met was also a Mormon. When that realization combined with an adult perception of the back-stabbing and sniping of the "righteous churchladies" in the church I grew up in, I lost any respect for those who loudly proclaim their "goodness" by citing their membership in an organized religion.
I judge people by their actions, and hope they will return the courtesy.
CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
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Wow. It's been such a LONG time since I had some really good grass . . . .
However, I did have some really good, nay, excellent beer just the other night.
Trust is such a flexible concept.
However, I did have some really good, nay, excellent beer just the other night.
Trust is such a flexible concept.
Madame Pandora
Deliciously Aware of Impending Sins
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Re: Re: Re: Honestly?
If twelve people bear witness to one story, there will be at least thirteen different books to tell it - and it will always be Judas' copy that does the best business.
I am paraphrasing, I'm sure. Can't touch Oscar's wit.
MP
Unless I forget my Oscar, this is his.Weird Harold said:
If twelve people bear witness to one story, there will be at least thirteen different books to tell it - and it will always be Judas' copy that does the best business.
I am paraphrasing, I'm sure. Can't touch Oscar's wit.
MP
Re: Re: Re: Honestly?
Or is it because some people have an insatiable desire to exercise control over others and claims of mystical, intuitive or faith based knowledge is an effective tool by which to achieve those goals? And on the other side, it allows people to exonerate themselves of responsibility for their actions and choices by saying "it's God's will"?Weird Harold said:
Weird Harold
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Unclebill said:
There is definitely an element of control in what organized religions eventually turn into. However, they form (as do many other organizations) because humans are basically pack animals underneath all of their civilization, education, and rationality.
Like any pack animal, there are those who aren't satisfied unless they are at the top of the pecking order. The normal means of getting to the top of a pecking order, is to peck harder and more often than those you wish to have below you.
If you follow Momma April's new religion, all of your drinking buddies are your new "congregation." Eventually, one among your congregation is going to become the de facto leader, because he's always got the best ideas for what to drink and smoke. If you pass the new "religion on to your children and they pass it along to theirs, eventually a "leader" is going to arise who is more interested in what he gets out of having everyone follow than he is in making sure everyone has fun.
It's simple human nature.
CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
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Unclebill, I have a little problem with the way you said that God's will allows people to abdicate responsibility. (It's just a little problem.)
Sometimes, even when a person has every last duck in a row, a meteorite will fall out of the sky and whack a duck. Is it the person's fault? No. The duck's? Hell, no. The responsibility might lie with the meteorite, which would probably say, if it could talk, "Hey -- I didn't choose my course. I fell here."
In short, there is no possible way to assign responsibility.
There are cases, in short, where a person need not assume responsibility, because there is none to be assigned. This holds true for illness, earthquakes, tidal waves, and duck-flattening meteorites.
Since a lot of people have trouble with the concept that shit just happens, it is easier for them to say it is God's will. It isn't particularly comforting, and it doesn't fit everyone's idea of what is true, but it eases the pain of losing a duck to random chance. It isn't abdicating responsibility at all.
Sometimes, even when a person has every last duck in a row, a meteorite will fall out of the sky and whack a duck. Is it the person's fault? No. The duck's? Hell, no. The responsibility might lie with the meteorite, which would probably say, if it could talk, "Hey -- I didn't choose my course. I fell here."
In short, there is no possible way to assign responsibility.
There are cases, in short, where a person need not assume responsibility, because there is none to be assigned. This holds true for illness, earthquakes, tidal waves, and duck-flattening meteorites.
Since a lot of people have trouble with the concept that shit just happens, it is easier for them to say it is God's will. It isn't particularly comforting, and it doesn't fit everyone's idea of what is true, but it eases the pain of losing a duck to random chance. It isn't abdicating responsibility at all.
fgarvb1
We are in for it now.
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god and time
What makes you think GOD is bound by time.??
the only time he is bound to is when he has committed himself by his word.
As for time passing for him..and what makes you think he has only male qualities...did you not read.??..a thousand
years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years to him.??
Who was it that ask the angel where did you go.? he had blinked the angel was gone..he blinked again the angle was back.
The angel replied that he had walked to and fro across the earth. two eye blinks is not much time.!
The wording is only close...as i said before go find out yourself.
But enough.. have fun..
What makes you think GOD is bound by time.??
the only time he is bound to is when he has committed himself by his word.
As for time passing for him..and what makes you think he has only male qualities...did you not read.??..a thousand
years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years to him.??
Who was it that ask the angel where did you go.? he had blinked the angel was gone..he blinked again the angle was back.
The angel replied that he had walked to and fro across the earth. two eye blinks is not much time.!
The wording is only close...as i said before go find out yourself.
But enough.. have fun..
naudiz
Literotica Guru
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I used to belong to the Assemblies of God. Then the youth pastor started teaching children that it's not only all right but desirable in God's eyes to call down His wrath on the children at school who picked on them for being Christian. I pointed out that this was ridiculous and got warned if I didn't fall into line I'd 'be sorry'.
Then, when I refused to convert my friends because I happened to respect their right to their own beliefs, the youth pastor took me aside and said if I didn't convert my best friend, he would have no choice but to call down the wrath of God on me. All those younger kids who had become like siblings to me were told that I was possessed by demons and that they should revile me. I was no longer welcome to youth group or the main service. When I got a nasty gash on my hand that needed stitches, they told me it served me right because I had gone against their will. Not God's will but their will.
... I just lost faith in the Assemblies of God.
That's not entirely true. I went through a period of being angry at God. I lost my faith. I thought I'd show Him. I'm not trying to belittle your disillusionment, KM. It felt awful. It was the worst thing that happened in my life. The Assemblies of God really know how to do a number on you.
The way I regained my faith is personal. It's a story I prefer not to broadcast on the board. If you're dying to know, email me. Otherwise, let's just say some stuff happened, and then I realized that the Church and God are not the same. Never have been, never will be.
Seriously, KM - believe what you want obviously, but isn't it at least somewhat obvious that this Church is a robber's den? Now that I'm free of them, I think the Assemblies are a joke; a big, rotten, unfunny, fucked up excuse for a joke. If there is a God, I imagine He's not laughing either.
I'm not going to pray that you return to the fold. That fold is a nasty place that tortures its sheep. Instead, I'm going to have faith that you're an intelligent woman who knows what she needs, and it's none of my damned business to lecture one way or another. Take care.
Then, when I refused to convert my friends because I happened to respect their right to their own beliefs, the youth pastor took me aside and said if I didn't convert my best friend, he would have no choice but to call down the wrath of God on me. All those younger kids who had become like siblings to me were told that I was possessed by demons and that they should revile me. I was no longer welcome to youth group or the main service. When I got a nasty gash on my hand that needed stitches, they told me it served me right because I had gone against their will. Not God's will but their will.
... I just lost faith in the Assemblies of God.
That's not entirely true. I went through a period of being angry at God. I lost my faith. I thought I'd show Him. I'm not trying to belittle your disillusionment, KM. It felt awful. It was the worst thing that happened in my life. The Assemblies of God really know how to do a number on you.
The way I regained my faith is personal. It's a story I prefer not to broadcast on the board. If you're dying to know, email me. Otherwise, let's just say some stuff happened, and then I realized that the Church and God are not the same. Never have been, never will be.
Seriously, KM - believe what you want obviously, but isn't it at least somewhat obvious that this Church is a robber's den? Now that I'm free of them, I think the Assemblies are a joke; a big, rotten, unfunny, fucked up excuse for a joke. If there is a God, I imagine He's not laughing either.
I'm not going to pray that you return to the fold. That fold is a nasty place that tortures its sheep. Instead, I'm going to have faith that you're an intelligent woman who knows what she needs, and it's none of my damned business to lecture one way or another. Take care.
scylis
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HERESY
He sowed His eyes shut because He is afraid to see
He tries to tell me what i put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity
He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity
GOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARES
IF THERE IS A HELL
I'LL SEE YOU THERE
He flexed His muscles to keep His flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering, and pain
demands devotion... atrocities done in His name
GOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARES
IF THERE IS A HELL
I'LL SEE YOU THERE
GOD IS DEAD (your God is dead!)
AND NO ONE CARES (and no one cares!)
IF THERE IS A HELL (drowned in His own hipocracy!)
I'LL (see you!) SEE YOU(you) THERE(there!)
-Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails
(all that copyright 1994 stuff goes right here)
He sowed His eyes shut because He is afraid to see
He tries to tell me what i put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity
He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity
GOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARES
IF THERE IS A HELL
I'LL SEE YOU THERE
He flexed His muscles to keep His flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering, and pain
demands devotion... atrocities done in His name
GOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARES
IF THERE IS A HELL
I'LL SEE YOU THERE
GOD IS DEAD (your God is dead!)
AND NO ONE CARES (and no one cares!)
IF THERE IS A HELL (drowned in His own hipocracy!)
I'LL (see you!) SEE YOU(you) THERE(there!)
-Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails
(all that copyright 1994 stuff goes right here)
Weird Harold
Opinionated Old Fart
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- Mar 1, 2000
- Posts
- 23,768
Re: god and time
God probably is not bound by space or time, since both are part of what he created.
However, mankind is bound by space and time, and that binding limits our perception of God.
fgarvb1 said:
God probably is not bound by space or time, since both are part of what he created.
However, mankind is bound by space and time, and that binding limits our perception of God.
FlamingoBlue
a simple country lawyer
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How can something die that never lived
Man invented God to answer questions that man could't answer. God is another word for faith and faith is not based on logic.
This is my point of view about religion. Religious people are afrad of going to hell or of recieving some unknown sanctions based on their (percieved) less than perfect behavior. A spiritual person, on the other hand, has been to hell, knows it well, and doesn't want to ever go back. Most religions, in MY opinion are fear based. Spirituality, in MY opinion, is love based.
KM, I'm sorry to hear of your travail. It will pass, if you let it.
blue
Man invented God to answer questions that man could't answer. God is another word for faith and faith is not based on logic.
This is my point of view about religion. Religious people are afrad of going to hell or of recieving some unknown sanctions based on their (percieved) less than perfect behavior. A spiritual person, on the other hand, has been to hell, knows it well, and doesn't want to ever go back. Most religions, in MY opinion are fear based. Spirituality, in MY opinion, is love based.
KM, I'm sorry to hear of your travail. It will pass, if you let it.
blue
