greek mythology

[Svenskaflicka]

Wasn't this a thread about Greek mythology anyway?

Yes, well... it got hi-jacked.

 

[obedientpet]

Ah.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Yes, well... it got hi-jacked.

That's probably my fault. I brought up the Norse gods. As far as euro-centric mythologies go, they are my favorites. Personal honor and the concept of dying well, which Norse mythos shares with Japanese bushido and and Indian Dharma appeal to me. Heimdall and Loki are of particular interest to me. Unfortunately, the current association with Neo-Nazi groups and the Aesir (at least in the U.S.) has been a quite off-putting.

With regard to Zeus and company there is just too much poncing about and boo-fooing of little boys for my tastes.

Marvel Comics Mighty Thor

"The Mighty Thor" cartoon circa 1966
Cross the Rainbow Bridge of Asgard,
Where the booming heavens roar,
You'll behold in breathless wonder
The God Of Thunder, Mighty Thor!

 

[SlickTony]

As far as I've heard, Brynhilde was not only in love with Siegfried, she was actually his twin sister.

I thought Siegfried was the product of Sigmund and Sieglinde, who were twins.

 

[AgentAika]

That's probably my fault. I brought up the Norse gods. As far as euro-centric mythologies go, they are my favorites. Personal honor and the concept of dying well, which Norse mythos shares with Japanese bushido and and Indian Dharma appeal to me. Heimdall and Loki are of particular interest to me. Unfortunately, the current association with Neo-Nazi groups and the Aesir (at least in the U.S.) has been a quite off-putting.

With regard to Zeus and company there is just too much poncing about and boo-fooing of little boys for my tastes.

I completely agree with you CBM - Norse mythology has so much more gumption than the Greek myths! And the clothes were so much better too!
LMAO!

Of course, in Norse mythology there seems to be a lot more emphasis on honour and pride...tho I am sure someone here will come along and dispute this!
Hehe!

Yes it is a shame that in general people seem unable to separate the sensationalist Neo-Nazi groups from anyone else with an interest in Aesir/Asatru but that shows the level of their ignorance does it not? And willingness to believe everything they read in the gutter press (I presume you have gutter press in the US?!)

For me, Loki has always been one of the coolest of the (demi) gods, though Thor is my patron god (being born on Thor's Day helps!)...Hel is a great character too!

So tell me CBM, are you also a fan of Klingons? I see them as Viking/Norse type beings!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Yes it is a shame that in general people seem unable to separate the sensationalist Neo-Nazi groups from anyone else with an interest in Aesir/Asatru but that shows the level of their ignorance does it not? And willingness to believe everything they read in the gutter press (I presume you have gutter press in the US?!)

For me, Loki has always been one of the coolest of the (demi) gods, though Thor is my patron god (being born on Thor's Day helps!)...Hel is a great character too!

So tell me CBM, are you also a fan of Klingons? I see them as Viking/Norse type beings!

If you're referring to the similarity in texture and shape between Klingon heads and Viking helmets...

Loke wasn't a real god, he was a small giant.

The neonazis are the real idiots, worshipping an ancient religion because they think that's masculine and cool and a pride for their own country, when in fact the vikings were thieves, rapists, murderers, and most often the youngest, left-over sons that had to leave home because there wasn't enough room to feed everyone. Not to mention that the Vikings were not unwilling to "import" slaves from other countries. The vikings were the first to make immigrants come to Europe!

Brilliant role models... just as brilliant as neonazis calling themselves after an ancient Indian people, or using a southamerican indian sun-symbol for their political logo...

 

[AgentAika]

If you're referring to the similarity in texture and shape between Klingon heads and Viking helmets...

Loke wasn't a real god, he was a small giant.

The neonazis are the real idiots, worshipping an ancient religion because they think that's masculine and cool and a pride for their own country, when in fact the vikings were thieves, rapists, murderers, and most often the youngest, left-over sons that had to leave home because there wasn't enough room to feed everyone. Not to mention that the Vikings were not unwilling to "import" slaves from other countries. The vikings were the first to make immigrants come to Europe!

Brilliant role models... just as brilliant as neonazis calling themselves after an ancient Indian people, or using a southamerican indian sun-symbol for their political logo...

Loki may well have been a giant, small or otherwise but he was still considered to be one of the Aesir.

I agree in principle that neo-nazis are misguided fools but I respect their right to believe what they want....even if I do not agree with their ideas.
When all is said and done, if they truly believe in what they preach, who am I to say they are wrong?
That said, I can see why a group of people would want to believe they are directly descended from a race of gods...it has to be better than having peasants as one's ancestors!
Hehe!

Do the neo bunch really see Vikings as their rôle models? Or merely the Arians?
You see, this is the problem I have with the popular conception of Vikings....as you yourself Svenksa illustrated perfectly. I am not suggesting that what you wrote is your opinion, nor indeed the extent of your knowledge but it does appear to be that of the uneducated masses.

The Vikings were in fact brilliant shipbuilders and excellent seafarers. I was told by a Godi friend of mine that the word viking actually means to go sailing in search of adventure. Of course, I only have his word for that!

As well as their navigational skills, they were fantastic craftspeople and artists.
Their metalworking skills were second to none and this is evident in some of the beautiful jewellery they made....along with their weapons, helms, cauldrons etc.

They had a great sense of law and order and if it seems harsh to us we must remember the times they lived in were harsh.
They even had the sense to recognise the fact that women were more than capable of engaging in battle!

As for slavery and introducing immigrants to Europe - with all due respect that is a completely fatuous statement!
Are you forgetting the Romans? Or the Saxons, Angles, Jutes??
In fact every tribe/clan/nation that has ever trod upon this earth has at some time or another used slavery as a means of labour.
The Vikings were not unique in this....even the Greeks, so beloved of so many here, used slaves.

It is human nature to want to expand one's domain - the Vikings were no different to any other race in that respect. If they took slaves, so what? Take or be taken.
So they pillaged and looted....so? Again, nothing that hadn't been done before; or after.
Raping.....once more, they were not the only ones. For Goddess' sake, it still happens all over the world today...it is not the sole province of the Vikings!

To truly comprehend the Vikings one has to be able to get into the mindset of the era and understand that their world was nothing like ours. Their lives were nothing like ours. Their ideals and priorities were so vastly different to ours that unless we could experience their lives for ourselves, how could we make a valued judgement and state that they were wrong for doing what they did or that it made them as a race, thoroughly undesirable?

Finally, and I think this is a point worth remembering:
......The Eddas and Sagas were written from the victor's perspective - this means that certain aspects would be greatly exagerrated.
......The victims wrote their own accounts.....victims are notorious for exagerrating their woes and wrongs done to them, especially when those doing the writing happen to be Christian monks with their (IMHO) rather soft outlook upon how life should be lived.

It is up to us, as historians (OK, so maybe not everyone here is into history in such a big way!) to trawl through all evidence and draw logical conclusions, not overly romanticised assumptions.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

AgentAika wrote:

So tell me CBM, are you also a fan of Klingons? I see them as Viking/Norse type beings!

Yes, I'm a big fan of the Klingons, though not to the point of learning to speak the language. I can see why they might be associated with the Vikings, especially given the similarities between Vahalla and Stovokor. However, I think that the Klingons are equally derived from the Japanese and the Huns. Their original appearance hinted at asian roots. This is also true of the rigidness of their culture juxtaposed with their affinity for works of art.



Svenskaflicka wrote:

Loke wasn't a real god, he was a small giant.

This is what appeals to me so much about Loki (Loke). According to what I've read (which may seem way off to Svenskaflicka) Loki didn't start out as an enemy of the Aesir. He was their ally, and lived among them, though he was a small fire giant. However the Aesir never really accepted him, and so he gradually became their enemy and eventually, with his off-spring, brought down the halls of Asgard and laid-low the vain Aesir. It sort of reminds me of the United States ...

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

... When all is said and done, if they truly believe in what they preach, who am I to say they are wrong?
That said, I can see why a group of people would want to believe they are directly descended from a race of gods...it has to be better than having peasants as one's ancestors!
Hehe![/color]

This sentiment hints at madness. Both the Germans and Japanese claimed to believe such nonsense*, and it led to their being utterly defeated and conquered by the Slavs and multi-ethnic American mutts respectively (my Old Man included) whom they considered their inferiors.

*The Nazis of WWII era Germany are something of an enigma to me. They publicly touted the superiority of the German Master race, but they really wanted to be Norwegians. Just look at Hitler, Himmler, Goering, etc ... They were all swarthy, short squirrelly-looking men. Also, they appear to have had an active program of breeding Norwegian women to German men in order to "improve the German stock." This strikes me as more of an inferiority complex than a true belief in divine ancestry.

I believe that one of the female singers from "Abba" (Anni-Frid Lyngstad) is the result of that breeding program, and was born in some sort of monstrous "aryan" (though Aryans are really from Iran, Afghanistan, and India) baby mill.

 

[Amfig]

<snip>
They had a great sense of law and order and if it seems harsh to us we must remember the times they lived in were harsh.
They even had the sense to recognise the fact that women were more than capable of engaging in battle!

Vikings established the oldest Parliament in Europe-the Allthing in Iceland, about 976.

As for slavery and introducing immigrants to Europe - with all due respect that is a completely fatuous statement!
Are you forgetting the Romans? Or the Saxons, Angles, Jutes??
In fact every tribe/clan/nation that has ever trod upon this earth has at some time or another used slavery as a means of labour.
The Vikings were not unique in this....even the Greeks, so beloved of so many here, used slaves.

It is human nature to want to expand one's domain - the Vikings were no different to any other race in that respect. If they took slaves, so what? Take or be taken.
So they pillaged and looted....so? Again, nothing that hadn't been done before; or after.
Raping.....once more, they were not the only ones. For Goddess' sake, it still happens all over the world today...it is not the sole province of the Vikings!

But mostly they settled and farmed. In eastern England, in Normandy, in Iceland, Greenland, parts of Spain.

To truly comprehend the Vikings one has to be able to get into the mindset of the era and understand that their world was nothing like ours. Their lives were nothing like ours. Their ideals and priorities were so vastly different to ours that unless we could experience their lives for ourselves, how could we make a valued judgement and state that they were wrong for doing what they did or that it made them as a race, thoroughly undesirable?

Finally, and I think this is a point worth remembering:
......The Eddas and Sagas were written from the victor's perspective - this means that certain aspects would be greatly exagerrated.
......The victims wrote their own accounts.....victims are notorious for exagerrating their woes and wrongs done to them, especially when those doing the writing happen to be Christian monks with their (IMHO) rather soft outlook upon how life should be lived.

The Sagas and Eddas were recorded by Christian monks after the Norsemne had been converted to Christianity.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Wasn't this a thread about Greek mythology anyway?

that's ok it was just a jump off point.

btw, pretty much all greek mythology is incest. they're all related after all- one big horney family

 

[RisiaSkye]

"The Mighty Thor"... *shivers in agony*
Don't tell me that you would actually read ANYTHING about the Aesir/Vanir cult, that hasn't been written by a Scandinavian?

Isn't that a bit like saying Eminem can't rap because he's white?

Discrimination cuts all ways.

JMO, of course.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Oj, with the poodles already...

OK, one at a time:

Risia: Kind of. Even though I still think that both Marvel Comics and Hollywood are masters of destroying orginially great stories and turning them into *insert your favourite dirty word here*, I promise you that my prejudiced statement was uttered with the famous twinkle-in-the-eye. Or, as interneters would say: "jk".

AgentAika: I agree that neonazis have the right to think whatever they want about them being superior to other human beings simply because they don't have as much pigment as others... but I'll never ever say that they also have the right to treat other people badly because of their beliefs!!!

There are two sides to every story, AA. Yes, the vikings were good shipbuilders, good sailors, and good warriors. But in my book, only the first two are worth boasting about. The last is not a chárecteristic, it's a flaw.

I would hardly call myself "uneducated mass", even though I am a rather big woman...
According to one of the theories I have heard about the word "viking", is that it means "man from the bay". Bay is called "vik" in Swedish.

Times change, rules and laws and the way we look upon life change. What is decent conduct today is barbaric tomorrow. But no matter what the times are like, you're always respopnsible for your own actions. Just because it was a common practise to take slaves, doesn't make it acceptable. Taking land that doesn't belong to you, stealing, looting, kidnapping and raping women - the fact that it still happens in the world today makes it, in my eyes, EVEN WORSE!!!

As for the remark about vikings being the first to bring slaves to Europe, that was a wrong choice of words. They were the first to bring immigrants to Sweden. There. Limited enough to be true.

The vikings did do some nice things. They also did some horrible things. They were no monsters, but they were no heroes either. I'm proud of the good things they did, and I'm ashamed of the bad things they did.

I don't want to put a 2-dimensional label on them.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Risia: Kind of. Even though I still think that both Marvel Comics and Hollywood are masters of destroying orginially great stories and turning them into *insert your favourite dirty word here*, I promise you that my prejudiced statement was uttered with the famous twinkle-in-the-eye. Or, as interneters would say: "jk".

Point taken. When it comes to bastardizing world cultures, nobody does it like the Hollywood machine. You're certainly entitled to be annoyed at the crap produced under the guise of US entertainment. We're masters at taking history, theology, and anything that people hold sacred and making it into a theme park.

My apologies for taking your comments more seriously than they were intended to be. One of my many faults is a tendency toward humorlessness when the topic of discrimination pops up in the convo; suffice it to say my sense of humor suffers--and fails me--at odd moments.

[/tangent]

RS

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

"The Mighty Thor"... *shivers in agony*
Don't tell me that you would actually read ANYTHING about the Aesir/Vanir cult, that hasn't been written by a Scandinavian?

Actually, I was a toddler when the "Mighty Thor" cartoon was in it's heyday. I don't think that I'd even heard the word Scandinavian at the time. To tell the truth, I only watched it because it was in the same time-slot as "The Hulk."(only The Hulk came on Tuesdays and The Mighty Thor, appropriately enough, on Thursdays)

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Point taken. When it comes to bastardizing world cultures, nobody does it like the Hollywood machine. You're certainly entitled to be annoyed at the crap produced under the guise of US entertainment. We're masters at taking history, theology, and anything that people hold sacred and making it into a theme park.

RS

Disney's "Hercules"...

 

[Arkontheroof]

Of course, in Norse mythology there seems to be a lot more emphasis on honour and pride...tho I am sure someone here will come along and dispute this!
Hehe!

Ah, AA, how could I let you down?! I couldn't! So, I'll dispute....

Norse honour had sod-all to do with romantic or Bushido-like concepts - I call as my witness the Icelandic Saga of the Confederates, which is a long story about greedy bastards bribing each other and perverting justice for financial gain - and "honor" in the Sagas has more to do with gaining respect through victory than standing up for what is right. The heroes were also often morally bankrupt - e.g. the Norwegian Arrow-Odd - though there are also historical/semi-historical heroes (e.g. the more historical Thorstein and Thorarin from the Thorstein Staff-Struck story) who are genuinely heroic and honourable as we'd understand it.

Happy with that?

Vaguely back onto topic -

The Norse can't be written off as uncivilised just because they didn't build marble monuments like the Classical tyrants, and it isn't fair to reduce their achievements to going Viking (especially since the Slavs, Saxons, Picts and everyone else in N/W/Central Europe did the same thing, just not as well!) The Icelanders, for example gave us the Thing and the Kvidur - which were probably closer to a democratic assembly or a reasonable jury than the Athenians ever managed, and better than Europe would see for hundreds of years thereafter.

And their mythology gives LOADS of ideas of erotic fiction - from the romantic (I'm thinking: virgin couple elope/sail off together only to drift into the Sea of Worms, and realising that they'll die they throw themselves into ech others' arms) to the outright perverse (I think it's Eirik the Red's Saga that has the luscivious zombie-woman who rises from the dead and tries to molest a guest at her oild farm)....

 

[Guest]

Mythology of ANYKIND..

 

[Guest]

Centaurs..and centaurettes

 

[Guest]

Faeries

 

[Guest]

Faery "infestation"

 

[Guest]

Venus and Fertility figures

 

[Svenskaflicka]

rhino, your art gets better and better!!!

 

[Guest]

art?

 

[Guest]

driads