Hate Speech, or Academic Criticism

[Boxlicker101]

I looked up his letter and his comments following the letter. He makes two factual assertions I just don't buy: Blacks all have non Anglo names and Asians intermarry with whites at a much higher rate than blacks. I would expect an academician to cite sources for such factual assertions. In my personal experience as a white man who lives in a predominantly white neighborhood but sent his kids through a large urban school system, most of my kids' black friends had Anglo names and I know of quite a few black/white interracial couples. That is my anecdotal experience. I know it is not scientifically researched. The professor dropped outrageously broad generalizations without sources. Yes, I realize it is a letter to an editor, but those often include sources to support factual assertions. I find the professor's letter unworthy of genuine discussion beyond speculation about his motivations.

Race relations and politics are far more complicated than "blacks have crazy names", "blacks don't work hard" and "blacks choose not to integrate". Sure does sound ignorant to the point of racism when his comments are simplified to that (and I don't believe that simplification is unfair). So, if a Duke polisci professor feels comfortable espousing that in the New York Times, are we really shocked the black community feels that racism is alive and well?

The discussion about affirmative action is an interesting one. However, I increasingly find the race argument a distraction from a discussion of income inequality and transformation of our society into economic classes with little social mobility. Racism exacerbates that problem for blacks, but the plight of poor whites is as desperate.

He might have cited sources but the newspaper might have edited them out to same space. They do that, you know.

I sort of have the impression more white women marry black men than vice-versa, and more white men marry Asian women than vice-versa. This last would be largely the result of the millions of US servicemen being stationed in Japan and other parts of Asia and marrying local women. There have been female members of the services stationed in those places too, but not as many.

 

[Aglaopheme]

He might have cited sources but the newspaper might have edited them out to same space. They do that, you know.

Nope. His drivel was posted online in the comments section below an editorial piece. Something you may have caught on to if you were actually comprehending what has been written here and not just "reading" with a defensive slant.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Nope. His drivel was posted online in the comments section below an editorial piece. Something you may have caught on to if you were actually comprehending what has been written here and not just "reading" with a defensive slant.

I was not aware this was an online editorial, because the OP did not make that distinction. I looked up the citation, and here it is: http://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...comment-new-york-times-editorial#.VV5VucLbJ8Q

Here is the actual comment:

This editorial is what is wrong. The Democrats are an alliance of Westchester and Harlem, of Montgomery County and intercity Baltimore. Westchester and Montgomery get a Citigroup asset stimulus policy that triples the market. The blacks get a decline in wages after inflation.But the blacks get symbolic recognition in an utterly incompetent mayor who handled this so badly from beginning to end that her resignation would be demanded if she were white.The blacks get awful editorials like this that tell them to feel sorry for themselves.In 1965 the Asians were discriminated against as least as badly as blacks. That was reflected in the word "colored." The racism against what even Eleanor Roosevelt called the yellow races was at leastas bad.So where are the editorials that say racism doomed the Asian-Americans. They didn't feel sorry for themselves, but worked doubly hard. I am a professor at Duke University. Every Asian student has a very simple old American first name that symbolizes their desire for integration. Virtually every black has a strange new name that symbolizes their lack of desire for integration. The amount of Asian-white dating is enormous and so surely will be the intermarriage. Black-white dating is almost non-existemt because of the ostracism by blacks of anyone who dates a white.It was appropriate that a Chinese design won the competition for the Martin Luther King state. King helped them overcome. The blacks followed Malcolm X.

Under no circumstances would I call that hate speech. It is criticism, but honest criticism and you can agree or not, as you choose.

Some people had apparently not read it either. It refers to "virtually all" blacks, not all and refers to interracial dating and mentions it would probably lead to intermarriage. There are no citations, because the prof. is expressing an opinion based on his own observations.

As for the Anglo or non-Anglo names. There are parents who give their children African names, but there are also many adults who take on such names. Did you ever hear of Muhammed Ali or Kareem Abdul Jabbar? Their parents named them Cassius Clay and Lew Alcindor, but the young men changed that upon adulthood. I have no idea how many others have done this, but if you read the rosters of teams in the NBA, you will get an idea.

Either way, taking on names such as this will not usually be a ticket to success.

 

[Sean Renaud]

In fairness to Muhammed Ali (I've never heard of the other fellow I admit) that's not REALLY an African name. If we're not in geography class Africa actually means Sub-Saharan. Egypt, Syria and like I said pretty much everything north of the Sahara is generally considered part of the Middle East. The name is distinctly Islamic as well. You can argue whether or not Malcolm X or Muhammed Ali had a good or bad point about the absurdity of blacks generally using the last names of their former Masters. I've heard plenty of reports suggesting that despite his claims Alex Haley (Author of Roots) didn't actually trace his lineage and just made a lot of stuff up. Now I'm sure you can't trace your lineage back to the old country, because. . .it's convienent. But plenty of whites can tell you that they are Irish and German on mom's side and French and Italian on Dad's side because not only are the records intact but plenty sat around with their grand parents or at least their parents did and listened to them talk about their heritage. There is nothing similar for African Americans (As opposed to. . .I don't even know what the proper term is for Obama because he is distinct from standard African Americans in that way. He does know where he came from. I'm not sure if that's a matter of truly not wishing to integrate as it is admitting the fact that we don't have a history. I'm not descended from a French Knight or even a German pig farmer. I'm descended (for all intents and purposes) from a draft horse.) So I would argue those are already different things.

As for Anglo names, first I know plenty of Asians who don't have Anglo names at all. Plenty of various breeds of Europeans who don't have Anglo names. To be fair by Anglo the author, either not bothering to make the distinction or not knowing it probably means it can be pronounced in English without your head exploding. Jamal and Jamil are both Islamic names but nobody bitches about them. The reason you don't name kids Adolf (anymore) isn't because the name is German. So . . .yeah.

For the record I highly doubt that most of the names in the NBA are made up as adults. That changing names BS was never really vogue and seems to have passed for the most part.

I will be the first motherfucker inline however to call out blacks who just come up with goofy names that aren't even African in origin. Shaniqua comes to mind. So don't take this as a blanket defense.

 

[Iceprincess12]

In fairness to Muhammed Ali (I've never heard of the other fellow I admit) that's not REALLY an African name. If we're not in geography class Africa actually means Sub-Saharan. Egypt, Syria and like I said pretty much everything north of the Sahara is generally considered part of the Middle East. The name is distinctly Islamic as well. You can argue whether or not Malcolm X or Muhammed Ali had a good or bad point about the absurdity of blacks generally using the last names of their former Masters. I've heard plenty of reports suggesting that despite his claims Alex Haley (Author of Roots) didn't actually trace his lineage and just made a lot of stuff up. Now I'm sure you can't trace your lineage back to the old country, because. . .it's convienent. But plenty of whites can tell you that they are Irish and German on mom's side and French and Italian on Dad's side because not only are the records intact but plenty sat around with their grand parents or at least their parents did and listened to them talk about their heritage. There is nothing similar for African Americans (As opposed to. . .I don't even know what the proper term is for Obama because he is distinct from standard African Americans in that way. He does know where he came from. I'm not sure if that's a matter of truly not wishing to integrate as it is admitting the fact that we don't have a history. I'm not descended from a French Knight or even a German pig farmer. I'm descended (for all intents and purposes) from a draft horse.) So I would argue those are already different things.

As for Anglo names, first I know plenty of Asians who don't have Anglo names at all. Plenty of various breeds of Europeans who don't have Anglo names. To be fair by Anglo the author, either not bothering to make the distinction or not knowing it probably means it can be pronounced in English without your head exploding. Jamal and Jamil are both Islamic names but nobody bitches about them. The reason you don't name kids Adolf (anymore) isn't because the name is German. So . . .yeah.

For the record I highly doubt that most of the names in the NBA are made up as adults. That changing names BS was never really vogue and seems to have passed for the most part.

I will be the first motherfucker inline however to call out blacks who just come up with goofy names that aren't even African in origin. Shaniqua comes to mind. So don't take this as a blanket defense.

I hate the word african american. I am american or you can use my name.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I will be the first motherfucker inline however to call out blacks who just come up with goofy names that aren't even African in origin. Shaniqua comes to mind. So don't take this as a blanket defense.

There is an urban legend that the whole thing started with a white obstetrician at an inner-city hospital, who had a sick sense of humor, and suggested to his patients baby names like "Urethra" and "Chlamydia."

Me, I think it's actually rooted in an attitude that if all your kid is likely to have in this world is a name, you might as well fancy it up.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I hate the word african american. I am american or you can use my name.

Which is incredibly shameful. I'm only American if I'm overseas. Otherwise I'm African American, just like I have a German American friend and a Russian American friend.

When I was overseas I was American as long as I was the only one (or at least the only branch) present. If there were soldiers present I'm not an American, I'm an American Marine (to separate me from the Royal Marines who were also present.) I am not a soldier, I'm not a sailor and I'm not an airman.

I've never heard (in the present day) of the Irish, German or French denying their heritage like they were ashamed of it. That feeling is unique to the African American.

There is an urban legend that the whole thing started with a white obstetrician at an inner-city hospital, who had a sick sense of humor, and suggested to his patients baby names like "Urethra" and "Chlamydia."

Me, I think it's actually rooted in an attitude that if all your kid is likely to have in this world is a name, you might as well fancy it up.

I have no idea how it started. The theory doesn't really sound insane however.

 

[Iceprincess12]

Which is incredibly shameful. I'm only American if I'm overseas. Otherwise I'm African American, just like I have a German American friend and a Russian American friend.

When I was overseas I was American as long as I was the only one (or at least the only branch) present. If there were soldiers present I'm not an American, I'm an American Marine (to separate me from the Royal Marines who were also present.) I am not a soldier, I'm not a sailor and I'm not an airman.

I've never heard (in the present day) of the Irish, German or French denying their heritage like they were ashamed of it. That feeling is unique to the African American.



I have no idea how it started. The theory doesn't really sound insane however.

I am not African. I didn't come from there, my dad didn't, his dad didn't. Classifying people based on color is racist. My mom is Korean, I was born in S. Korea, but I am still an American. If you want to talk about my culture, then I am Korean American. What culture is African? People here pretending by picking ridiculous name and observing kwanzaa...it's their right, of course, but they no nothing about being African. Do you think if they went over there people would welcome them? No they would be looked at like Americans.

Black-that is a culture here in America, what is it? The stereotype is chip on my shoulder, lower class, criminal American. Don't argue with me on this either. My dad was alive when he had to drink out of separate water fountains and had to ride in the back of the bus. Obviously he grew up in the south. He didn't want us (my sister and I) to live like that, so we grew up in a white upper middle class neighborhhood. I've known very few black people and others may see me as black but I don't. Black is a social class, not a heritage. I am not black, I get nervous when I see a group of black people. I went to visit my sister in California and she hangs out with "those type" of people-the ones that smoke weed, steal, generally useless. They scare me. I don't like driving through Oakland. If you want to tell me Africans are anything like these people, I will laugh you out of Lit. I met someone from Africa before. He was awesome, but guess what...he was a person, not a color.

Again, if you to call me something, call me American or use my name.

 

[DooleyDarter]

boom lakka lakka boom lakka lakka

 

[Sean Renaud]

African American is the most accurate term. And you can be Korean American if you like that sounds genuinely more accurate than African American. However it is a race, and it is a culture, a uniquly American one since our older culture was all stripped away as part of the slavery process.

I could tell you the country of origin of every single Asian friend I've ever had. African Americans are the only group who are supposed to be ashamed of who we are and what we are and what we've contributed to this country. They don't teach that the first man to officially die for this country was a black man, music history and our contributions there are glossed over as well. The Civil Rights movement boils down to MLK and Rosa Parks and sometimes Malcolm X.

But no, Africans do not act like African Americans because our culture was severed hundreds of years ago. I've never heard a single one of them refer to me as anything other than a brother however.

Also I've seen enough pictures of you. Even in a bad neighborhood the worst thing a group of blacks a likely to do to you is the same thing that happens to you on lit 24/7. You're gonna get unwanted attention.

 

[Iceprincess12]

African American is the most accurate term. And you can be Korean American if you like that sounds genuinely more accurate than African American. However it is a race, and it is a culture, a uniquly American one since our older culture was all stripped away as part of the slavery process.

I could tell you the country of origin of every single Asian friend I've ever had. African Americans are the only group who are supposed to be ashamed of who we are and what we are and what we've contributed to this country. They don't teach that the first man to officially die for this country was a black man, music history and our contributions there are glossed over as well. The Civil Rights movement boils down to MLK and Rosa Parks and sometimes Malcolm X.

But no, Africans do not act like African Americans because our culture was severed hundreds of years ago. I've never heard a single one of them refer to me as anything other than a brother however.

Also I've seen enough pictures of you. Even in a bad neighborhood the worst thing a group of blacks a likely to do to you is the same thing that happens to you on lit 24/7. You're gonna get unwanted attention.

luv you

 

[Sean Renaud]

luv you

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2736682/fluttershy-yay-o.gif​

 

[Aglaopheme]

I was not aware this was an online editorial, because the OP did not make that distinction

According to WTVD, Duke University Professor Jerry Hough responded to a New York Times editorial titled “How Racism Doomed Baltimore” by suggesting that the author’s attitude was what was “wrong” with the black community.

Actually, he did quite plainly. I'll stick with my observation.

 

[MrRandyWatson]

I hate the word african american. I am american or you can use my name.

I'm not crazy about it either, but studies have shown that people think more highly of an "African American" person than they do of a "black" person. So it's just marketing, essentially.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I don't like being called a European. I have never even been to Europe; my father was during WW2, but I don't know any other specific members of my family who ever were. Some were, of course, but it was a long time ago. I am many things, first and foremost an American, but I have never been a European.

 

[renard_ruse]

My mother's grandparents emigrated from what's now Poland. The city of Schenectady, where General Electric and American Locomotive, hired many immigrants and those newly-minted citizens from steel mills and coal mines to work in the factories. It was lawful to discriminate against Poles and Italians, because of their "perceived" laziness, incompetence, and well, lack of intelligence...

Precisely why I have no sympathy for groups claiming to be "victimized" today. In fact, I've just been doing family history recently with my cousin, and I found out the Lithuanian Catholics were discriminated against to the extent some of my ancestors (mom's side of the family) went to great lengths to hide their background from their employers to avoid being fired. But, so what? They survived and nobody cares now. And that was before massive civil rights laws taking employers rights away, before 100,000 full time civil rights bureaucrats at various levels of government ensuring there's no discrimination, etc. No excuses now, get a job.

Of course, its hard to get jobs for less educated people or skilled people because of "free" trade shipping the jobs overseas and cheap labor at home due to immigration, which are valid issues that do impact blacks to a greater extent than some other groups. Those are valid issues, but nobody talks about those issues. It doesn't fit the politicians' narrative or agenda.