Hey, gun nuts!

[Ishmael]

Back to the range tomorrow with the chronograph.

First of all I profiled my chamber (and if anyone's interested I'll tell you how I did that) and it's LONG in the throat. The recommended length over all for the 300 Win Mag. (min) is 3.4" So I seated an empty cartridge to a LOA of 3.530", chambered it no problem. After I profiled the chamber the bullet was actually 200 thousands off the lands. I'm loading the Hornady 208 gr. ELD-Match bullet and their tech crew recommends a 20 thousandths set back. So I readjusted my die for a 50 thousandths set back just in case.

I'm using RL-26 powder and the recommended loading is 74 gr. So I've made up a batch of cartridges starting at 72 gr and going up to 74.5 gr in .5 gr increments. If there are no signs of over pressure I'll probably make up another batch going from 75 to 76.5 in .5 gr steps. I should find a 'sweet spot' somewhere in those batches.

For the techies;

Federal brass
CCI 250 primers
Alliant RL-26 powder
Hornady 208 gr ELD-Match bullets.

Ishmael

 

[Wat_Tyler]

I'll try to remember to keep up with this.


I have a .300WinMag Ruger 77 that would be nice to get to some gnat's ass level at range/distance.


I have also decided to bore out my Springfield in .308 Norma magnum to a .300WinMag just for ease and cost of loading/reloading. Nothing for the .308 is readily available or inexpensive, and the effort required to ream the chamber to .300 is less than that required to finish ream a chamber on a barrel change.


Then I'd actually go down by a cartridge . . . .

 

[richard_daily]

I'll try to remember to keep up with this.


I have a .300WinMag Ruger 77 that would be nice to get to some gnat's ass level at range/distance.


I have also decided to bore out my Springfield in .308 Norma magnum to a .300WinMag just for ease and cost of loading/reloading. Nothing for the .308 is readily available or inexpensive, and the effort required to ream the chamber to .300 is less than that required to finish ream a chamber on a barrel change.


Then I'd actually go down by a cartridge . . . .

I need to lose a couple of cartridges myself. Strongly considering getting rid of .308 winchester / 7.62 nato, because I don't think it does anything that another cartridge I have can't do better and/or cheaper.

 

[Que]

Seems odd that the .308 cartridge is not more popular. I'm pretty sure that's the cartridge that was used by the USMC for their Remington 700 based sniper rifles in Vietnam. (M40, maybe?)

It's probably as you say that there are plenty of other cartridges that do the job better, and so they've become cheaper because they're more popular?

Numbers stick in my head but to me they're just numbers. I don't have a firm visual in my head as far as the size of these various cartridges how much powder they contain and so on.

I saw a nice Remington 700 it from 1963 in a gun shop about 3 years ago and considered buying it it was chambered in 30.06. My grandfather took home his Springfield 03 from World War I training in 30.06. I thought that had become the most common deer rifle round for a while?

 

[thør]

I need to lose a couple of cartridges myself. Strongly considering getting rid of .308 winchester / 7.62 nato, because I don't think it does anything that another cartridge I have can't do better and/or cheaper.

The .308 is relatively inexpensive just to plink and play with. And, ammo is easy to come by. It's the modern 30-30.

 

[richard_daily]

The .308 is relatively inexpensive just to plink and play with. And, ammo is easy to come by. It's the modern 30-30.

I get all of that, but for plinking, I'd use a 9mm carbine, or 7.62x39. Much cheaper, and effective to 100 yards without any drop. for 200-500 yards, I'm mainly using russian 5.45, which I find really effective, and with better ballistics than 5.56.

For longer range, I'm using 6.5 creedmore, and getting rid of all of my other surplus stuff. The reason I'm strongly considering dropping 7.62x51 is that it doesn't do the job past 700 yards as effectively as 6.5 creedmore. 6.5 is a far flatter shooting projectile. If I really want to stay with with with long range shooting, and get more serious with it, I'll probably go .338 lapua mag.

 

[thør]

Lotsa choices out there. My .308 silhouette rifle is just a fun toy. With a 190gr HPBT Matchking, it knocks the iron sheep over at 500m, no matter where you hit them.

 

[richard_daily]

Lotsa choices out there. My .308 silhouette rifle is just a fun toy. With a 190gr HPBT Matchking, it knocks the iron sheep over at 500m, no matter where you hit them.

Yeah, but like I said, after 700 yards, it's not really as effective, and you've go to deal with significant drop and drag. It goes subsonic quickly after that, and loses it's effectiveness. for 300-500 yards, I'd say it's effective (for drop, cost, and hitting power), but that's such a small area of effectiveness, that and I have other stuff that can do it better with larger ranges of effectiveness.

That said, it is common as hell, although it sounds like the military is going to 6.5 themselves as well in the semi-near future (although not Creedmore).

 

[BotanyBoy]

If I really want to stay with with with long range shooting, and get more serious with it, I'll probably go .338 lapua mag.

There you go.

That will get some bidniz done.

Yeah, but like I said, after 700 yards, it's not really as effective, and you've go to deal with significant drop and drag. It goes subsonic quickly after that, and loses it's effectiveness. for 300-500 yards, I'd say it's effective (for drop, cost, and hitting power), but that's such a small area of effectiveness, that and I have other stuff that can do it better with larger ranges of effectiveness.

That said, it is common as hell, although it sounds like the military is going to 6.5 themselves as well in the semi-near future (although not Creedmore).

It's effective enough to tear limbs/heads off or disembowel point targets up to 800m.

They might go to other things for your specialty shooters, they are always getting the cool kid stuff but I doubt it will get fielded to your regular line units for the fact of interchangeability and supply.

You can de-link some of your bro's M240-M60 ammo and re-up the mags for your M14/21/40 riflemen.

You can do the same for your 249---> M4

I mean they could, no doubt.....things do change.

But not very often.

 

[richard_daily]

There you go.

That will get some bidniz done.



It's effective enough to tear limbs/heads off or disembowel point targets up to 800m.

They might go to other things for your specialty shooters, they are always getting the cool kid stuff but I doubt it will get fielded to your regular line units for the fact of interchangeability and supply.

You can de-link some of your bro's M240-M60 ammo and re-up the mags for your M14/21/40 riflemen.

You can do the same for your 249---> M4

I mean they could, no doubt.....things do change.

But not very often.

If I had an M249 or M240, I'd agree with you, but since I don't, and don't even have an M14, I'm not tied to those platforms, and as such, not tied to the round.

I have a bolt action (mauser action) and a semi-auto. Neither are effective tack drivers, and are about 2 MOA as currently set up. So I'd either have to invest significantly to upgrade, or consider going the other way, and getting out of that caliber, since it's not effective for my current hardware anyways.

 

[KUJACK]

Love my gun

Ruger GP-100 357 six shooter pistol
Solid protection

 

[BotanyBoy]

If I had an M249 or M240, I'd agree with you, but since I don't, and don't even have an M14, I'm not tied to those platforms, and as such, not tied to the round.

But the military does have them, which is what I was talking about.

Not you.

I have a bolt action (mauser action) and a semi-auto. Neither are effective tack drivers, and are about 2 MOA as currently set up. So I'd either have to invest significantly to upgrade, or consider going the other way, and getting out of that caliber, since it's not effective for my current hardware anyways.

And if you're looking for a nice cartridge for long range with good flight characteristics and enough juice to still whallup the shit out anything it hits when it gets there.... .338 Lapua is hard to beat in the .30 cal department.

 

[thør]

And if you're looking for a nice cartridge for long range with good flight characteristics and enough juice to still whallup the shit out anything it hits when it gets there.... .338 Lapua is hard to beat in the .30 cal department.

Everything I've hit with the .338WM gets dead really fast. I think that my Ruger cost a whole $229 at Longs Drug when I picked it up in '81. I only bought it because I was going deer hunting on Admiralty Island and I wanted a little more juice for big brown and ugly than my '06 carried.

 

[richard_daily]

But the military does have them, which is what I was talking about.

Not you.

Well, I'm hoping that with all of this "weapons of war" stuff that the antis are talking about, that I'll be able to pick one up.

And if you're looking for a nice cartridge for long range with good flight characteristics and enough juice to still whallup the shit out anything it hits when it gets there.... .338 Lapua is hard to beat in the .30 cal department.

Right now, I'd need to justify the $5 a shot price tag by going out and getting a bit more serious about long distance first. I'm just dabbling in it right now.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Everything I've hit with the .338WM gets dead really fast. I think that my Ruger cost a whole $229 at Longs Drug when I picked it up in '81. I only bought it because I was going deer hunting on Admiralty Island and I wanted a little more juice for big brown and ugly than my '06 carried.

Yea I bet it does.

Well, I'm hoping that with all of this "weapons of war" stuff that the antis are talking about, that I'll be able to pick one up.

They might get some accessories banned but that's all.

You much like me are at far greater threat of getting shit on by state/local laws than federal.

Right now, I'd need to justify the $5 a shot price tag by going out and getting a bit more serious about long distance first. I'm just dabbling in it right now.

Fair enough.

I should just shoot my rifles more often.

I've done very little rifle work/training lately and been pistol heavy pretty much since I got out of the military.

Because practicality.....I don't carry battle rifles about regularly anymore but I've always got a pistol and a good blade around. Paranoid? Maybe, but paranoid doesn't mean wrong and when you need it and don't have it....you'll sing a different tune.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFGJycZUsAAN1GM.jpg

I do miss the zen of long range rifle shooting though. I should do something about that soon.

 

[thør]

They might get some accessories banned but that's all.

That and the black parkerizing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That and the black parkerizing.

LOL....only on newly manufactured guns after the start of the new year of course.

If it saves just one life!!

 

[thør]

LOL....only on newly manufactured guns after the start of the new year of course.

If it saves just one life!!

The black is soooooo scary.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

I have 2 M14 platforms, both in .308 and an asspot of ammo for them, all kinds. So I guess you could say I'm kinda wed to that cartridge.


That said, I'd consider a re-barreling in something smaller.


I wonder why they went with a case size so similar to the .260 Remington. I've always thought one of those would be sweet.

 

[thør]

I have 2 M14 platforms, both in .308 and an asspot of ammo for them, all kinds. So I guess you could say I'm kinda wed to that cartridge.


That said, I'd consider a re-barreling in something smaller.


I wonder why they went with a case size so similar to the .260 Remington. I've always thought one of those would be sweet.

I believe that the .300 Savage case was the parent of the .308.

 

[Ishmael]

OK, I'll give you the narrative of yesterdays results because photobucket is being assholes. I'll post the pix as soon as I work around pb.

As I had previously discussed I worked up to the 74.5 gr loading and the groups got tighter with each increase in powder. No signs of over pressure so I can keep moving up in powder. This came as no surprise in that magnums seem to like the cases filled to the brim with the slow burning powders. On the down side this is running the cost per shot up.

My extreme spread at 200 yds was approx. .8 inches which means the rifle is shooting just under 1/2 MOA. Avg. velocity was right at 3075 fps which I pretty much expected in the the best starting data I had was that 74 gr of powder would yield 2950 fps from a 24" barrel and a 200 gr bullet. I'm throwing a 208 gr pill out of a 26" barrel.

The G1 BC for this particular bullet is .670 so running it through the calculator for this altitude and temp. I get a velocity of 1822 @ 1000 yds well beyond any trans-sonic considerations.

Oh, and I'm going to dbl check my bullet seating to make certain I can seat to the 20 thousandths jump that the Hornady techies recommend. Although I'm going to have to keep a close eye on that in that I'm getting close to magazine issues. I suspect that when I go to the 225 ELD-M I'm going to have to have some more gunsmith work done.....or not. I plan on changing the stock to a true magazine style so if any work of that sort is to be done I'll wait until after the new stock is in place.

Regardless, so far, so good. My goal is to approach 1/4 MOA. Might not make it, but it's worth the try.

Ishmael

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Bravo!!!

 

[Ishmael]

Bravo!!!

Save the "Bravo's" for a while.

I've made damn sure I haven't had to deal with wind drift, spin drift, mirage, or all the other variables that creep in. Well, spin drift is bordering on a constant.

Wind drift and mirage are whole new ball games at LR shooting.

Ishmael

 

[thør]

The Best Ever.

Lones Wigger - Rest in Peace

 

[bellisarius]

The Best Ever.

Lones Wigger - Rest in Peace

That sucks. A true gentleman willing to share his knowledge with anyone. And someone that could read mirage like no one I've ever met.

At every match we ever participated in Lones would put on a mini-seminar. Either Gary (Anderson), Karen (Monez), or myself would be the 'models' for whatever point Lones was trying to make. It was funny in that invariably each of us would require some correction even though we were trying to do it right the first time even if it was just moving the foot so, or tucking the arm thusly. One of the reasons he had all those Olympic gold medals.