History was written by the winners

[Colleen Thomas]

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The winners, obviously.

Sarcasm? Hard to tell.

 

[Guest]

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Sarcasm? Hard to tell.

Quit following my ass.

 

[pop_54]

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Boxlicker is absolutely correct. The Kuntanug army engineered an incident and invaded manchuria in 1931. For most historians world war II begins here. The reason is quite simply because this agression thr4eatened the trading rights of all the powers concerned. The American embargo of fuel oil, which would be Japan's reason for declaring war on the U.S. dates to this time as a punative/coercive measure. Further, The Japanese would launch a full scale invasion of china from thier puppet country of Manchuko.

Depending upon your point of reference you can set the begining of World War II anywhere you like after 1931 and prior to Dec. 7 1941. Interestingly some very forward thinkng contemporary historians set the begining of World War II on the day the Treay of Versalles was forced on the Germans. I believe it was Liddle-Hart who observed in a letter to an american correspondant;

"This isn't a peace treaty, it's an armistance for twenty years"

Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repreat it.

A corollary should be that those who DO remeber the past are oft doomed to see it repreated despite their warnings.

-Colly

Quite so dear... the second world war began in 1914... with just a short break for the aggressors to recouperate between 1918 and 1939... While the aggressors were recouperating and re-arming... the so called defenders were sitting about playing politics and dis-arming.

The Jap / Chink effort on the other side of the world was stirring things up quite well meantime and should have been a warning... but it went largely unheeded... well it was just a bunch of slant eyes pushing each other about... Had WWII proper as it were... not resumed in 1939 with the old aggressors Germany willing to give moral support to Japan... It is highly unlikely Japan would have tried to go it alone against the US and other allies in the Pacific area.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

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Quite so dear... the second world war began in 1914... with just a short break for the aggressors to recouperate between 1918 and 1939... While the aggressors were recouperating and re-arming... the so called defenders were sitting about playing politics and dis-arming.

The Jap / Chink effort on the other side of the world was stirring things up quite well meantime and should have been a warning... but it went largely unheeded... well it was just a bunch of slant eyes pushing each other about... Had WWII proper as it were... not resumed in 1939 with the old aggressors Germany willing to give moral support to Japan... It is highly unlikely Japan would have tried to go it alone against the US and other allies in the Pacific area.

You should have been a history prof pops. Especially when I was in school. You sure make it funnier than any of my profs could.

*HUGS*

 

[Guest]

Colly, I would love to have had both you and Pops in school. Imagine!

Perdita

 

[fogbank]

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Quite so dear... the second world war began in 1914... with just a short break for the aggressors to recouperate between 1918 and 1939... While the aggressors were recouperating and re-arming... the so called defenders were sitting about playing politics and dis-arming.

Agreed. The interesting thing though is that the Japanese switched sides somewhere in there; allied in 1918, axis in 1939. But really, it's hard to say if they were ever on the allied side; possibly they were simply trying to win favour with the western powers for the inevitable reportioning of the world that would follow the first world war. And the Chinese, as well, were involved in the war in the hopes of winning European recognition of their own struggle to exist. For Japan and China, the first war was really about positioning themselves for the inevitable open conflict that would follow.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Colly, I would love to have had both you and Pops in school. Imagine!

Perdita

Believe it or not, In college I entertained the idea of someday being a professor of history.

-Colly

 

[matriarch]

Believe it or not, In college I entertained the idea of someday being a professor of history.

-Colly

I do believe it.
And could see it.
Easily.

 

[Guest]

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And the Chinese, as well, were involved in the war in the hopes of winning European recognition of their own struggle to exist.

Tragedy+time=comedy

 

[Guest]

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Tragedy+time=comedy

Tragedy is time. (Very nuanced view of Shakespearean tragedy, e.g., the tragic arc).

Comedy is in timing.

Perdita

 

[Boxlicker101]

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Agreed. The interesting thing though is that the Japanese switched sides somewhere in there; allied in 1918, axis in 1939. But really, it's hard to say if they were ever on the allied side; possibly they were simply trying to win favour with the western powers for the inevitable reportioning of the world that would follow the first world war. And the Chinese, as well, were involved in the war in the hopes of winning European recognition of their own struggle to exist. For Japan and China, the first war was really about positioning themselves for the inevitable open conflict that would follow.

I would have to take some exception to that. Japan wanted to conquer the Chinese mainland and they saw two German-held terriroties on the northeat coast of the mainland, as well as the Korean peninsula as staging areas for the coming attacks. For that reason, they allied themselves with France/England/Russia. China was neutral in the first WW.

Italy switched sides too, in fact twice. In 1914, because of treaty obligations, they should have been allies of German and Austria-Hungary. Instead, they decided they could do more for themselves by siding with the France, England and Russia. In 1939 they were an Axis nation but they didn't get involved in europe until France had been almost defeated. Italy displayed no honor in either conflict.