Horror & Porn

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEE ZIRE

I use bodice ripping in my current story. But I dont think horror fans want a boner.

DOC

Youre much too concrete. Godzilla and Norman Bates are both monsters. Hannibal Lecter is a monster.

LOGAN

People only care about the monster. Everyone knows Norman Bates, but how many know the names of his victims?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

DOC

Youre much too concrete. Godzilla and Norman Bates are both monsters. Hannibal Lecter is a monster.

Yeah, but I'm thinking of another kind of horror, more psychological, something like Rosemary's Baby, where the "monster" is something that is a part of ourselves, or Poe's stuff like The Pit and the Pendulum, or A Cask of Amontillado where the monster is an existential condition.

Lovecraft often deals with existential horror like that. His "monsters" often defy description and are literally indescribable. His "The Color out of Space" is like that. Its monster is some ineffable influence from a meteor that's never really specified, and that's what makes the story so horrifying: the total alienness of it.

But then, maybe that's why you don't like Lovecraft, because he doesn't fit your formula.

 

[Boota]

The extent to which I've noticed formulas in horror seems to be an attempt at universal fears. It's easy to know someone is scared of clowns and then show them a clown, but to work on a large scale everyone has to be scared of clowns. Most of the successful horror I've enjoyed over the years share certain themes. Usually a sense of claustrophobia and helplessness. That can manifest in different ways. Even the heroine thrown in the pit with the monster is an example of claustrophobia, if not helplessness.

The reason The Exorcist works so well, even after all these years, is claustrophobia and helplessness. The parent cannot leave the child, even though it would technically be as simple as opening the door and walking away. She is still trapped. And she is helpless to stop what is happening to her child.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

The question is whether you want to put people on a rollercoaster or hit them in the face with a hammer.

OMG if I had room in my signature, I'd put this there. Brilliant!

The reason The Exorcist works so well, even after all these years, is claustrophobia and helplessness. The parent cannot leave the child, even though it would technically be as simple as opening the door and walking away. She is still trapped. And she is helpless to stop what is happening to her child.

I think Rosemary's baby works in a similar way, although with a bit more horrific eventuality. What mother could believe her child is going to be Satan, not matter the mounting evidence?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DOC BOOTA

I suggest that my formula for horror appeals to the greatest number of people and is used in the majority of horror fiction.

ROSEMARYS BABY is olive-loaf or the two headed snake or watching midgets fuck. It has a limited appeal that no one bothers to mimic.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Last night I came across a book about writing screenplays. It differentiates all the kinds of films. Horror falls into the Thriller category with action-adventure, murder mystery, sci-fi, et al

The author spells out how each sub-category is different but all of them conform to a formula of sorts. The author calls it audience expectations.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I usually have trouble containing my stories within 8000 words, but I wrote a 1000 word horror story yesterday and it's pretty good. Magazines like the shorties for fillers.

 

[snar]

To me, the best 'horror' stories have always been of the mind-fuck variety, and sometimes they are the least violent. The only book that has ever actually given me a nightmare was by Stephen King and it was one of his later, almost non-violent novels. But it was just so damn creepy. Violence, in itself, isn't always scary -it's all in the telling.

I don't necc. agree that horror fans don't want a boner, but I do think that if you're watching Godzilla, that is probably true.

The question is what are you after? Gross out? Fear? Arousal? A mix? For example, the story I am working on right now has violence and a murder, but it is not a horror story; it is a sex story and it is designed to turn people on, not scare them.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

To me, the best 'horror' stories have always been of the mind-fuck variety, and sometimes they are the least violent. The only book that has ever actually given me a nightmare was by Stephen King and it was one of his later, almost non-violent novels. But it was just so damn creepy. Violence, in itself, isn't always scary -it's all in the telling.

Mind sharing?

I'm curious.

 

[snar]

Mind sharing?

I'm curious.

The name of the Stephen King book or my story? The Stephen King book was Duma Key (don't laugh, it was scary! ). I just finished the first draft of my story, but I need to edit it. Should have that wrapped up this week.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Sorry SNAR, the navel gazing stories by pecksniffs dont cut it with real horror fans. Stevie is definitely a navel gazing pecksniff since about 1986.

 

[snar]

Sorry SNAR, the navel gazing stories by pecksniffs dont cut it with real horror fans. Stevie is definitely a navel gazing pecksniff since about 1986.

LOL! I have to ask.... what's a navel gazing pecksniff?

....and you don't need to apologize to me, I'm not a hard core horror fan (I actually don't read much horror), and even if I was I certainly wouldn't be offended by your taste in literature one way or the other.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SNAR

There's been too much blending of literary themes since about the mid 80s. I cant name anything Stephen King published after IT (1985) thats worth a damn. he lost his way and is still wandering in the wildnerness.

Ditto for Thomas Harris. RED DRAGON, THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, and the 3rd one HANNIBAL? are horror classics, but he's now lost, too.

Folks dont read horror to contemplate their navels and their existential condition; they read horror to scream and sleep with a nite-light burning brightly.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

SK's new short story collection Just After Sunset is very much a return to his older stuff. I was impressed and pleasantly surprised.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA

I checked it out. Looks like more introspective navel gazing according to the comments posted. Survivor guilt? Whats that all about? I see that Stevie's hyping it...sales must be bad.

I wanna do a modernized LEGEND OF SLEEPY HOLLOW story....Dixie Style.

 

[Boota]

I just finished Just After Sunset and I liked it a lot. Short story anthologies in general don't do very well, but King's tend to do better than most just on his name. There were a couple of clinkers in the book, but most were pretty good stories.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BOOTA

I appreciate that King is popular, and I'm a big fan of his early books...CARRIE, CHRISTINE, MISERY, THE SHINING, SALEM'S LOT are genius. I measure King by his early efforts. I measure King by the non-fiction articles and non-fiction books he's written. By his own standards he's now McDonalds.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I just finished Just After Sunset and I liked it a lot. Short story anthologies in general don't do very well, but King's tend to do better than most just on his name. There were a couple of clinkers in the book, but most were pretty good stories.

Have you read his son, Joe Hill? It's like reading King when he was young, actually... makes you wonder if it's in the genes!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA

Kings wife writes, too.

But the gene theory is likely true. My family tree is full of writers, Mark Twain is probably the most famous.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

SELENA

Kings wife writes, too.

Yes, but she sucks.

I'm just sayin....

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its likely. She obviously learned nothing from Stevie.

 

[snar]

SNAR

There's been too much blending of literary themes since about the mid 80s. I cant name anything Stephen King published after IT (1985) thats worth a damn. he lost his way and is still wandering in the wildnerness.

Ditto for Thomas Harris. RED DRAGON, THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, and the 3rd one HANNIBAL? are horror classics, but he's now lost, too.

Folks dont read horror to contemplate their navels and their existential condition; they read horror to scream and sleep with a nite-light burning brightly.

I like King's old stuff too. I haven't read Harris' books, but have heard great things. As I said, horror's not my favorite genre, but I can appreciate what you're saying about someone not wanting to contemplate their navel whilst reading a slasher novel. LOL.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SNAR

Its not even the slashing that makes it horror, as much, and worse, happens in war novels or Westerns.

The issue is scaring the crap out of people. You want to seriously disturb their reality. You want them to sleep with all the lights on in the house.

 

[Boota]

Have you read his son, Joe Hill? It's like reading King when he was young, actually... makes you wonder if it's in the genes!

I knew he became a writer, but I have yet to read any of his stuff. There may be something to the genetics of it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I read some of his hype on Amazon and saw a quote attributed to Joe....THE PAST ISNT DEAD, IT ISNT EVEN THE PAST. Unfortunately, William Faulkner said it first.