House cats - killers?

[graceanne]

Totally agreed.



I know the part in bold well! Though I've been amazed with what I can sneak by recently. Must have been all of those fabulous blow jobs.

Btw - I'm just yanking WD's chain because he's always bitching about what a fatfest we all are.

LOL

Something to think about - blow jobs might make it so he doesn't miss his meat so much.

 

[00Syd]

Damn straight.

My cat is my baby, and if I were in Shanghai and being served kitten, I can live with that contradiction and make like a Roman in Rome, rather than crusade against the barbarity. I can resist the urge to fucking beat senseless the people who let the unspayed little female kitten run around the neighborhood underfed and pathetic and sleeping in our car hood that sits in the driveway more. I accept that she's not to them what my cat is to me. If they are fine letting her encounter the incensed bird fan who'll lob rocks at her or just some antisocial kid, I can't *do* anything about that.

I don't know how people incapable of compartments and contradictions can get out of bed in the AM and not shoot themselves.

I guess I'm mostly annoyed with the PETA-type animal people, for whom all living creatures are sacred and worthy of respect and life and happiness, oh, except for that mouse because, seriously, ICK.

But for me, mosquitos or ants are also living creatures that deserve respect in the same way a kitten does. There's no "real" or inherent or universal value that makes a cat more valuable than a mosquito. But people set personal priorities. Some prize cute. Some prize compatibility. Some prize not getting malaria.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but extending the metaphor that loving something or caring for something doesn't always have to do with anthropomorphizing. It has to do with setting priorities. It may express itself as anthropomorphizing, but I think the basic essence of that behavior comes from setting priorities.

I name my car. I name every car, that doesn't mean my car is owned because I love it more than other cars. I could afford it and I have some need to have a car. The anthropomorphizing is entirely lateral to that. It's not the cause of me owning a car. It's a silly personality quirk I have that is entirely separate from my real attitudes.

I'm not really disagreeing with you either. But y'all know the type of people I'm talking about, right? the "That turtle is so sad" (said while in tears in the turtle section of the pet-store) people. Go save a child. Priorities, indeed.

Animals have emotions. That's not pet-owner fantasy, that's scientific fact.

There is a spectrum of nervous system complexity, of course. But fear, boredom, stress, anxiety are all documented animal behaviors.

Have you ever heard of Temple Grandin? Here is a brief article of hers, a summary of the perspective I'm talking about.

I don't disagree with you, but a lot of the "this dog is sad" IS pet-owner/lover fantasy. Fear, boredom, stress, and anxiety, sure, I can agree with that. But we all know that people take it much further than that, treating their pets like little human children. That is what I'm talking about, and that's what bothers me.

The writer of that article used direct observations as part of her evidence, and a lot of direct observations that I've made of pet-people is that many of them put their own emotions onto their pets. That's great for them, and they can spoil and cater to their apparently emotionally unstable cat as much as they like, but it bugs me and I'll probably avoid them. A cat is a cat and more than likely it just wants you to put out its food and leave it alone.

 

[graceanne]

I guess I'm mostly annoyed with the PETA-type animal people, for whom all living creatures are sacred and worthy of respect and life and happiness, oh, except for that mouse because, seriously, ICK.

Yup. That's my pet peeve in one sentence.

 

[intothewoods]

LOL

Something to think about - blow jobs might make it so he doesn't miss his meat so much.

World peace could possibly be achieved with a good blow job.

 

[Netzach]

If someone's feeding a small army, I have no judgement. Frankly I have no judgement on consumers. Other than this - *everyone* should be asking where's the nice meat?

It doesn't have to be so expensive, because so many of the things that are being done are actually not critical to keeping things affordable. They were affordable *before* so much of this crap started. It's not good enough to be affordable and make a profit, it's that now, maximizing profit even if it means killing everyone has replaced quality.

 

[Recidiva]

I've never had real vanilla. I don't even know if there's a difference in taste. lol

Exactly. Or similar things. My husband hunts, quite honestly. We have an agreement - I don't have to see it while it looks like a deer/elk.

Heck, my mom can't eat crab if she's cooked it herself - totally ruins it for her. lol I won't eat crab - it's just a giant sea bug. Ew.

My food attitudes change more often than a drag queen during Mardi Gras.

I can not give a damn and eat total crap, usually when I'm chewing on some life lesson or problem where I don't have a spare brain cell to allocate.

Then when I can and I have lots of spare brain cells, I go purist "make everything myself, buy organic and obsess lovingly over every single detail." My daughter's seen me do that enough that I'm sure she was just trying to appeal to the food snob in me. And unfortunately instead of getting gourmet points, got a lecture. Poor thing can't win.

Pure vanilla does taste better and it's lacking some of the chemical overtones I'm really sensitive to. Especially if you're making a creme brulee.

But I know that being a food snob is a privilege, not a right. I think everyone can make small changes in their lives to benefit the world, no matter what socioeconomic strata they inhabit. But that being their first priority is not my call.

 

[Netzach]

I guess I'm mostly annoyed with the PETA-type animal people, for whom all living creatures are sacred and worthy of respect and life and happiness, oh, except for that mouse because, seriously, ICK.

I've never encountered this in regard to PETA. More why should any of us consider ourselves more worth saving than the mouse?

Ethical meter broken. Nazi meter pinging.

However well-intentioned and theoretically fair it may feel, going

human=mouse=roach

leads into some very fucking fucked up shit.

 

[graceanne]

World peace could possibly be achieved with a good blow job.

LOL

If someone's feeding a small army, I have no judgement. Frankly I have no judgement on consumers. Other than this - *everyone* should be asking where's the nice meat?

It doesn't have to be so expensive, because so many of the things that are being done are actually not critical to keeping things affordable. They were affordable *before* so much of this crap started. It's not good enough to be affordable and make a profit, it's that now, maximizing profit even if it means killing everyone has replaced quality.

Oh, I agree that the prices on good food is retarded. I have to buy everything without msg, and they charge me twice as much NOT to put msg in my food. I'm being charged and they're saving by NOT putting msg in the food. It infuriates me.

 

[Keroin]

Sea World & Aquariums.

I have spent thousands of hours with wild dolphins and other marine mammals. Bottlenose dolphins, the ones used in captivity, rarely live in groups of less than twelve, often much larger. They are highly social. I've also seen super pods. This is when pods of dolphins come together to hunt and socialize, there can be a thousand dolphins together at a time - quite a sight.

Dolphins hunting is a spectacle of skill and cooperation. I once saw a row of about thirty dolphins, all swimming in a perfectly straight line, their porpoising completely synchronized, and suddenly, simultaneously, they all turned ninety degrees and poured on the steam. Slowly they formed a circle around the herring, and then gradually tightened it. They then took turns going after the fish. It was amazing.

I've swam with wild dolphins, in the wild, in their habitat. They were curious about me and tolerant but that's about it. They left when they wanted to. I've watched them dig conch underwater, also cool.

A normal, healthy dolphin life involves traveling large distances every day, hunting live food, and complex social interactions within a big group. Please explain to me how any aquarium, Sea World, or swim-with-dolphins facility can accurately replicate this.

 

[Recidiva]

hijack - I went into a WF recently after not going in for almost a year and, man, just for a sec, I thought, I wish I were rich and didn't give a shit about buying produce trucked in from Chile or California or whatever. I mean, I'm not normally a sucker for marketing and store layout and all that, but that place totally fucking has my number. If I died and went to heaven and the only grocery store was WF, I would be just pleased as punch (organic cane sugar sweeted fruit punch, that is).

I love Whole Foods. It takes a huge effort to not overspend. Huge. Sometimes I just go somewhere else. But I'm lucky to have one close and lucky to have that choice. I love that place so much.

It runs in the family. My sister's not allowed to go into a Whole Foods without escort, requested by her husband. So it might be genetic.

 

[Shankara20]

World peace could possibly be achieved with a good blow job.

I am ready to dedicate my life to world peace....

 

[Recidiva]

Sea World & Aquariums.

I have spent thousands of hours with wild dolphins and other marine mammals. Bottlenose dolphins, the ones used in captivity, rarely live in groups of less than twelve, often much larger. They are highly social. I've also seen super pods. This is when pods of dolphins come together to hunt and socialize, there can be a thousand dolphins together at a time - quite a sight.

Dolphins hunting is a spectacle of skill and cooperation. I once saw a row of about thirty dolphins, all swimming in a perfectly straight line, their porpoising completely synchronized, and suddenly, simultaneously, they all turned ninety degrees and poured on the steam. Slowly they formed a circle around the herring, and then gradually tightened it. They then took turns going after the fish. It was amazing.

I've swam with wild dolphins, in the wild, in their habitat. They were curious about me and tolerant but that's about it. They left when they wanted to. I've watched them dig conch underwater, also cool.

A normal, healthy dolphin life involves traveling large distances every day, hunting live food, and complex social interactions within a big group. Please explain to me how any aquarium, Sea World, or swim-with-dolphins facility can accurately replicate this.

It can't.

 

[Netzach]

Sea World & Aquariums.

I have spent thousands of hours with wild dolphins and other marine mammals. Bottlenose dolphins, the ones used in captivity, rarely live in groups of less than twelve, often much larger. They are highly social. I've also seen super pods. This is when pods of dolphins come together to hunt and socialize, there can be a thousand dolphins together at a time - quite a sight.

Dolphins hunting is a spectacle of skill and cooperation. I once saw a row of about thirty dolphins, all swimming in a perfectly straight line, their porpoising completely synchronized, and suddenly, simultaneously, they all turned ninety degrees and poured on the steam. Slowly they formed a circle around the herring, and then gradually tightened it. They then took turns going after the fish. It was amazing.

I've swam with wild dolphins, in the wild, in their habitat. They were curious about me and tolerant but that's about it. They left when they wanted to. I've watched them dig conch underwater, also cool.

A normal, healthy dolphin life involves traveling large distances every day, hunting live food, and complex social interactions within a big group. Please explain to me how any aquarium, Sea World, or swim-with-dolphins facility can accurately replicate this.

Blerg, no, it's a penitentiary. With land mammals I'm definitely not arguing that everything *should* be captive-bred either.

I don't fully get the swim with dolphin thing because it's not impossible to encounter them if you just go out in a boat or go out and swim in many of the places people have already traveled to to do that.

You just may not get that lucky, and I guess people can't handle the ambiguity or something.

 

[Recidiva]

Blerg, no, it's a penitentiary.

I don't fully get the swim with dolphin thing because it's not impossible to encounter them if you just go out in a boat or go out and swim in many of the places people have already traveled to to do that.

You just may not get that lucky, and I guess people can't handle the ambiguity or something.

I'm never going in the ocean again. Sharks. Nope. I don't belong there. I don't belong in space either.

Fuck that.

It's not ambiguity, it's being eaten. I am not an ocean person. I respect her, I love her, I adore walking along her shores. But I don't belong IN there.

That being said, I'm not justifying dolphins being kept in captivity. I'd prefer they weren't.

 

[WriterDom]

I've been a member of PETA for a while now.

People who Eat Tasty Animals

Rarely do it eat red meat or pork. Usually it is at men's night out once or twice a year when my oldest brother gets steaks cut that would serve a bear. Ground turkey is better than beef to me if it is the lean stuff.

 

[intothewoods]

I love Whole Foods. It takes a huge effort to not overspend. Huge. Sometimes I just go somewhere else. But I'm lucky to have one close and lucky to have that choice. I love that place so much.

It runs in the family. My sister's not allowed to go into a Whole Foods without escort, requested by her husband. So it might be genetic.

I could go there and try and get the local produce, especially since I've recently been informed via this thread that there is no just God to give me a gold star at the end of this road. Fuck! It's not just that though. The whole sort of yuppie food orgie porn aspect of it - I mean, there is so much there, I wonder if WF wastes more than a TJ's - they must! We don't need heaps of Japanese eggplant next to heaps of Thai basil. There aren't enough of people buying that. Anyway, at some level I refuse to be a marketing statistic. Eff you, Whole Foods! I'm going to join the co-op and hang out with the tatoo moms...who are, of course, another demographic to be courted...*bangs head against wall*

NB: Obviously I'm not entirely serious and of the things to worry about in this world, WF is low on the list.

 

[intothewoods]

I am ready to dedicate my life to world peace....

*gets in car and heads to Kansas*

 

[Netzach]

I'm good in the ocean. Not in a plane.

Odds are better on a plane, but fuck it. I like the water.

Jellyfish suck. I assume I'm not going to be eaten by sharks. I just do - I go in with the "not likely to be eaten" mindset.

In the NE Atlantic, this is probably a safer bet than in dolphin land.

 

[Shankara20]

*gets in car and heads to Kansas*

*heads home to clean up the place and put on clean undies*

 

[Recidiva]

I've been a member of PETA for a while now.

People who Eat Tasty Animals

Rarely do it eat red meat or pork. Usually it is at men's night out once or twice a year when my oldest brother gets steaks cut that would serve a bear. Ground turkey is better than beef to me if it is the lean stuff.

I'm not sure if it's just being a girl or what. I already know i have hormone imbalances that cause headaches. I think they also cause "MUST EAT SMALL FURRY/FUZZY THING NOW" impulse. Though when I was pregnant I couldn't stand meat, but I did want...salsa? Menstrual cycle is different from pregnancy and it does appear that my body wishes to have small helpless animals sacrificed in her honor. I'm fine with someone thinking that's an imbalance. But it's my brain. I can't argue with headaches, I can't argue with the urge to eat meat that hits like a hurricane.

I've seen lots of animals go from live to dead to the table. I do know at a certain point I'd break the damned lamb's neck myself and do silly things with the blood if denied red meat for a long time.

I'd prefer this weren't part of my nature, but I do know the inside of my own head. If I eat red meat sparingly I'm okay. If I don't, I build up cravings that go on for years or months if unsatisfied, resulting in crazy behavior. And if someone knows how to fix the headaches that'd be cool too, thanks. Telling me not to think about it doesn't work in either case.

God Bless Texas De Brazil and Churrascarias everywhere.

 

[Recidiva]

I could go there and try and get the local produce, especially since I've recently been informed via this thread that there is no just God to give me a gold star at the end of this road. Fuck! It's not just that though. The whole sort of yuppie food orgie porn aspect of it - I mean, there is so much there, I wonder if WF wastes more than a TJ's - they must! We don't need heaps of Japanese eggplant next to heaps of Thai basil. There aren't enough of people buying that. Anyway, at some level I refuse to be a marketing statistic. Eff you, Whole Foods! I'm going to join the co-op and hang out with the tatoo moms...who are, of course, another demographic to be courted...*bangs head against wall*

NB: Obviously I'm not entirely serious and of the things to worry about in this world, WF is low on the list.

Yes. Look. Some women buy shoes and clothes. I buy food. New food. I'm sure what I save in leather in bags and shoes and coats works out somehow. If not, I don't really care.

I love little bottles and jars of things I've never tried as condiments...

I love fresh produce that I have no idea how it tastes and I get to mangle it when I get home and maybe figure it out.

And they carry this cherry cream soda that is not to be believed...and Vosges chocolate...

(I'm serious about Vosges chocolate...they make it with sea salt and bacon..>BACON<)

That's what I did for my birthday this year. I went to Whole Foods and bought everything I walk by and can't afford the rest of the year. An organic leg of lamb - $50. King Crab legs (which actually weren't that good, and I discovered that you kinda have to be in Alaska to get them good this summer) and overpriced Brioche I didn't have to make myself. It was perfect.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm good in the ocean. Not in a plane.

Odds are better on a plane, but fuck it. I like the water.

Jellyfish suck. I assume I'm not going to be eaten by sharks. I just do - I go in with the "not likely to be eaten" mindset.

In the NE Atlantic, this is probably a safer bet than in dolphin land.

Yeah, I'm in Florida. not a good bet here. I did lots of ocean trapising in the Northeast at the Jersey Shore and in Delmarva.

Here's just kinda asking for it.

 

[WriterDom]

A guy in the navy from Georgia never had been to the beach so some guys took him in San Diego. He got stung by a jellyfish and never went back. He also borrowed S's whites and didn't wear underwear and left a shit stain in them.

They have it made now with girls on ships. Two weather girls flew out to our ship from Diego Garcia. That's when I learned how powerful the female smell is when you haven't smelled it in a long time. Powerfully good that is. The entire office turned girlie.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't disagree with you, but a lot of the "this dog is sad" IS pet-owner/lover fantasy. Fear, boredom, stress, and anxiety, sure, I can agree with that. But we all know that people take it much further than that, treating their pets like little human children. That is what I'm talking about, and that's what bothers me.

I do get the distinction. I know I do my own bit of eye rolling to that behavior. I'm not sure that the English language really has decent words to avoid anthropomorphism. There's no separate word from "sad" to describe a "comparable to human sadness, but in animal form" set of animal behaviors. I guess they're not defined because we don't really know what they are because they can't tell us. It's projecting.

I do think we would need a separate linguistics set for that. But this is just probably indicative of how little thought or priority humans have put into the subject linguistically. Or how little information we actually have about animal thought or behavior. Maybe I'd have to be a zoologist to know there is that set of words available, I just don't know them.

I do know that some people dressing their animals up at Halloween makes me angry. And then some of it makes me laugh my ass off or go "awwww" and then I'm angry and ashamed of laughing. Stupid Halloween.

 

[Recidiva]

A guy in the navy from Georgia never had been to the beach so some guys took him in San Diego. He got stung by a jellyfish and never went back. He also borrowed S's whites and didn't wear underwear and left a shit stain in them.

They have it made now with girls on ships. Two weather girls flew out to our ship from Diego Garcia. That's when I learned how powerful the female smell is when you haven't smelled it in a long time. Powerfully good that is. The entire office turned girlie.

I had my own moment like that. I went on a retreat where no men were allowed on the grounds for a long period of time.

I remember when I first saw a guy after that. Completely ordinary guy, nothing special. He was walking about a block away from me. It was like being struck by emotional lightning.