How do I know if she's serious?

[LarzMachine]

I have a close friend of the female persuasion. We've been friends since 2002, and we keep getting closer, especially after she left her (now ex- ) boyfriend for cheating on her.

So as far as I knew, we were just friends. Then all of a sudden in May of 2003, she says we should get married someday. We aren't sleeping together, we've never even been on a date, but she said we should get maried someday. Now, I'm not complaining, mind you, since I DO like her quite a bit.

And now for the problem. She's incredibly distant emotionally, and often stops answering her phone or e-mails for a week at a time. She's also made no overt signal that we're actually a couple or anything besides her pseudo-proposal. There are little things here and there like always telling me how much she trusts me (and how few people she actually trusts), talking about her nipple ring (which I'd take as being nothing except for how otherwise sexually-reserved she is). asking my opinion on hair and makeup, and her near obsession with when I'm coming back o Minneapolis (I moved to South Dakota, about 3 1/2 hours from Minneapolis, just before Thanksgiving 2003) to visit her.

So I have NO bloody idea what's going on here. Is she dropping huge hints I'm too dense to pick up on? Am I taking things to mean a LOT more than they actually do? I know I'm dense, so you don't need to inform me of THAT. Niether of us have dated that much, so that might be a big part of the problem too.

 

[zombieman]

To be honest, it sounds likes she's a bit of an attention whore, and is doing it all because she likes the attention she gets from you.

 

[LarzMachine]

It's possible, but I have my doubts. If she was an attention whore, wouldn't she be more obvious? Most of the attention whores I've met are pretty flamboyant.

 

[zombieman]

Not always, at least in my experiences. A lot of the time they prefer emotional attention, if that makes any sense?

 

[MMODrew]

I have one question...

What do YOU want?

You seem to be spending a lot of time/energy wondering what's going on with her... Perhaps you first need to get clear about your own desire.

Are you attracted to her? Would the 'emotional coldness' you describe work for you?

Since you now live is a different state, ultimately, one (or both) of you would need to relocate. Would that work?

Even those are premature questions when you haven't even been on a 'date'.

I'm wondering whether you'd even be thinking of this girl in the same way if you were more socially active.

I'm not personally a proponent of long-distance relationships, yet if you are genuinely intersted in pursuing her, you'll need to communicate that to her and find out if she's on the same page.

I can appreciate that may be a difficult conversation to initiate, but a necessary one if you want to end your guessing.

Hopefully, that will bring clarity. When you have clarity, you can deal with it... Unknowns will keep you guessing!

That's my two cents for now... GOOD LUCK!

Drew

 

[eepy]

First of all, I love reading your posts... I think you may be a genuinely sweet guy, which amazes me

zombieman may be right; we girls seek attention in all sorts of ways.

But what if he isn't? What if you had a serious talk with your friend, asked her what her feelings are toward you, explain your confusion? Do you think that it would mess up the relationship you have now? And if it might, do you think it would be worth it to know?

Also, please keep in mind that no one on here will be able to read your friend's mind any more than you can -- sorry

 

[My Own Way]

I can't tell you how many of my guy friends I have told jokingly that one day we should get married. To be honest...while I adore most of them...I wouldn't never consider marrying them. But just because I do this, I'm not an "attention whore" in fact I prefer not to be the center of any sort of attention, good or bad. It's just my relationships are....we always chat about how it will be when we get married...always as a joke and neither of us serious about it.

It sounds like your friend might have been hurt in the past by a cheating boyfriend and therefore has sort of closed herself off emotionally to any relationships other than friendship. What sort of signals are you sending her? Are you being obvious in your intentions towards her? If you really want to date her, then you need to pursue her seriously. If she's interested then she'll return your pursuit...if not then you guys were simply meant to be just friends.

Just on a side note...I'm TERRIBLE at returning phone calls and emails...it's NEVER an indication of my feelings for the person...

I hope this helps...

 

[LarzMachine]

Re: I have one question...

What do YOU want?

Are you attracted to her? Would the 'emotional coldness' you describe work for you?

Yes, quite attracted really, or I wouldn't be thinking about her.

Since you now live is a different state, ultimately, one (or both) of you would need to relocate. Would that work?

The only thing keeping me in SoDak is the cheap cost of living. If we hooked up I'd probably move to be with her unless she decided SoDak was better for her.

 

[LarzMachine]

Re: Re: How do I know if she's serious?

First of all, I love reading your posts... I think you may be a genuinely sweet guy, which amazes me

Um, thanks. I think.
:: fighting urge to make some sarcastic comment about how if I'm so sweet why is it I can't get laid even in the morgue ::

But what if he isn't? What if you had a serious talk with your friend, asked her what her feelings are toward you, explain your confusion? Do you think that it would mess up the relationship you have now? And if it might, do you think it would be worth it to know?

That's why I'm trying to figure it out rather than just asking. I really don't want her to get the idea I just want to fuck her or something. I'm not saying I don't, but that isn't all I want from her. In fact, sex ranks fairly low.

Also, please keep in mind that no one on here will be able to read your friend's mind any more than you can -- sorry

Obviously. Even if someone said her signals ABSOLUTELY said something, humans are a weird lot and they could be way off the mark.

 

[LarzMachine]

Not always, at least in my experiences. A lot of the time they prefer emotional attention, if that makes any sense?

My ex was Mistress of such things. Don't get Me started on her.

 

[LarzMachine]

I can't tell you how many of my guy friends I have told jokingly that one day we should get married. To be honest...while I adore most of them...I wouldn't never consider marrying them. But just because I do this, I'm not an "attention whore" in fact I prefer not to be the center of any sort of attention, good or bad. It's just my relationships are....we always chat about how it will be when we get married...always as a joke and neither of us serious about it.

That's what I was afraid of. She later said she really did, but now I have to wonder about that too.

It sounds like your friend might have been hurt in the past by a cheating boyfriend

Oh, definitely. Her ex treated her like shit.

What sort of signals are you sending her? Are you being obvious in your intentions towards her?

Not any. I make sure to make myself available to her when she's having problems, but I don't want to screw up and lose her completely.

If you really want to date her, then you need to pursue her seriously.

And how do I do that? I have an unbelievably shitty history with women. Two I've slept with have tried to kill me, my last relationship was abusive to the point that my shrink kept begging me to leave her, and the last woman I slept with left me for a Nazi (a literal Nazi. He ran for Minneapolis Mayor on the "White Working Man's Party" ticket a few years back) who pretty much date-raped her. Exactly zero have said yes when I asked them out, so all of my dates and relationships have been because she started it. Ye, I know I suck at this.

 

[eepy]

Re: Re: Re: How do I know if she's serious?

I really don't want her to get the idea I just want to fuck her or something. I'm not saying I don't, but that isn't all I want from her. In fact, sex ranks fairly low.

Again with the sweetness You give me hope, so thank you! I just wish you had a bit more faith in yourself and your future relationships... although I can definitely see how you would lose faith -- yeesh! It'll all work out okay, though; I know these things

 

[LarzMachine]

Re: Re: Re: Re: How do I know if she's serious?

Again with the sweetness You give me hope, so thank you! I just wish you had a bit more faith in yourself and your future relationships... although I can definitely see how you would lose faith -- yeesh! It'll all work out okay, though; I know these things

I hope so. I'll be 30 in six months, and most high school kids have had a better track record.

 

[SweetErika]

Apart from the marriage, nipple ring, appearance, and homecoming comments, what other things has she done to show she wants a relationship with you? In other words, what are you getting out of this relationship? I'm hearing all of the things you're doing for her, but I think how she's treating you is the real key to her intentions. Frankly though, if your friendship is that strong, you should just ask her if she's ever thought about dating you.

I may be way off here, but given your history and comments, it sounds like both of you have low self-esteem. Perhaps it would be best to take some time now to work on that so you're ready for a healthy, loving relationship that will work long-term in the future.

 

[smoothdevil]

the "no overt signals that we're actually a couple" and she wants to get married in the future ????? ..... shouldn't that warn you of the possible future relationship .... sounds like a cool person getting together with an ice cube ... didn't hear one word from u about either passion, lust, desire, tenderness, sweetness, etc.... some of the normal reactions between lovers .... the lights are on and no one is home .... of course this could be a r/s of convenience ... good luck ...

 

[hewolf]

self-esteem

I may be way off here, but given your history and comments, it sounds like both of you have low self-esteem.

Yes, I am also getting the same impression as Sweet Erika. Your and hers
dating history bespeaks it.

People with low self - esteem generally do not do well in relationships. They tend to for partners that would confirm their poor image of themselves. They would also often enter relationship with someone just because this person is available - a default realtionship.

Does what I say resonate with you?

 

[LarzMachine]

Re: self-esteem

Does what I say resonate with you?

Just a LITTLE. </sarcasm>

 

[Seattle1120]

I think you should tell her exactly what you feel and what you want. It seems like this has been going on for quite awhile, and have the right to know. She could be being an attention whore, but as others have written, most of the classical attention whores are a lot more overt about it, so I wouldn't necessarily write her off as that. She may also feel the same way about you, but - since she has been hurt in the past - she may be reticent about telling you how she feels.

One thing's for sure, however - you won't know until you finally ask. If she backs off, or gives you a non-answer, and continues giving you non-answers, she will have shown herself to be someone who is indecisive, which you don't need, in which case you should move on. If she says that she only thinks of you as a friend, then while that will suck for awhile, at least you'll know and you can move on.

Generally speaking, women are uncomfortable simply being frank with their feelings, especially if they are sexual, and they won't tell you how they feel unless you specifically ask them.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

 

[hewolf]

Re: Re: self-esteem

Just a LITTLE. </sarcasm> /B]

LOL... There are lots of resources available for help, althogh it takes lots of hard work. And as you learn more about self-esteem and relationships, you will be able to figure out where you stand with your friend, if you would still care at that point.

 

[My Own Way]

And how do I do that? I have an unbelievably shitty history with women. Two I've slept with have tried to kill me, my last relationship was abusive to the point that my shrink kept begging me to leave her, and the last woman I slept with left me for a Nazi (a literal Nazi. He ran for Minneapolis Mayor on the "White Working Man's Party" ticket a few years back) who pretty much date-raped her. Exactly zero have said yes when I asked them out, so all of my dates and relationships have been because she started it. Ye, I know I suck at this.

Frankly...no one is ever very good at relationships in the beginning. Part of the frustration...as well as part of the fun is figuring out what the HELL the opposite sex is thinking half the time. I think if relationships were easy...we wouldn't want to be part of them because it would be boring...but that's just me.

I agree with SweetErika when she asks what exactly are you getting from this buddy buddy relationship. I mean...it seems to be working out just great for her...she has a shoulder to cry on and a friendly ear whenever she needs it...but then has no problem shoving you back into your designated corner when she doesn't need you anymore. It seems to me that you're doing A LOT of giving...and she's doing a lot of taking without any giving in return. Of course...this is just what I've gathered from your posts...I don't know this girl so I could be totally off base so forgive me if I am.

Also...I don't really know what you mean when you say that all your dates and relationships have been ones that she's set you up on...do you mean that she's hooking you up with her girlfriends and such? If that's the case...if it was me and I was truly interested in you as a dateable male...I definitely wouldn't be setting you up with my friends....or anyone else for that matter.

In all honesty...I think you need to set your sites someplace else. I know that isn't easy because you obviously care for this girl very much...but I really don't get the impression that she feels anything more for you than friendship...but again...I could be WAY off base.

Now...as to how to meet normal women...can't say I've ever tried to meet a woman with the intentions of dating her but it seems to me that you might be looking at the wrong women...and therefore possibly looking in the wrong places. You have to meet people that you have similar interests with...similar values...etc....try different places. Take a class, join a Church group, volunteer for Habitat for Humanity...or whatever floats your boat...meeting people at bars, clubs, or through friends who think you'd be "just perfect for each other" are generally recipes for disaster...mix it up a little bit...try something different...

Sorry this is so long....but I feel for you and really want to offer you some good advice...so I hope this helps...

 

[LarzMachine]

Also...I don't really know what you mean when you say that all your dates and relationships have been ones that she's set you up on...

I meant every time, it has been the woman asking me. Every time I've asked, it's been a resounding "No."

Now...as to how to meet normal women...can't say I've ever tried to meet a woman with the intentions of dating her but it seems to me that you might be looking at the wrong women...and therefore possibly looking in the wrong places. You have to meet people that you have similar interests with...similar values...etc....try different places. Take a class, join a Church group, volunteer for Habitat for Humanity...or whatever floats your boat...meeting people at bars, clubs, or through friends who think you'd be "just perfect for each other" are generally recipes for disaster...mix it up a little bit...try something different...

I've tried and nobody ever seems interested. So if she isn't the one, I'm half considering joining a monastery or something.

 

[My Own Way]

I meant every time, it has been the woman asking me. Every time I've asked, it's been a resounding "No."

Hmmm....well this might have something to do with the self confidence issue discussed before. No woman...or man for that matter is drawn to a wallflower of sorts. I think you sounds like a sweet, caring, articulate man here on Lit...you just need to become that in RL. How do you do that?? I have no idea...but I think you have to work on yourself and love yourself before you can love someone else, or expect someone else to love you.


I've tried and nobody ever seems interested. So if she isn't the one, I'm half considering joining a monastery or something. [/QUOTE]

LOL..don't do that...!!! Seems a bit drastic to me...

 

[hewolf]

I meant every time, it has been the woman asking me. Every time I've asked, it's been a resounding "No."


I've tried and nobody ever seems interested. So if she isn't the one, I'm half considering joining a monastery or something.

There is nothing wrong with YOU as a person - other than self-esteem. You just do not have skills. Get them.

 

[My Own Way]

There is nothing wrong with YOU as a person - other than self-esteem. You just do not have skills. Get them.

That's easier said then done though. Just picking up skills is practically impossible. Any suggestions on what sorts of skills he should be getting and how to get them?

Also, I went back and re-read your posts Larz....and I noticed you said that you're not giving her any signs that you're interested...DO YOU THINK WOMEN READ MINDS?? We like to pretend we're the know all, see all, be all...but I'll let you in on a little secret...we're not...shhhhhh don't tell. She might be sitting at home wondering about you like you're wondering about her. She may be just as confused as you are. Maybe not...but you don't know this until you say or do something that might indicate to her that you're interested...

 

[LarzMachine]

say or do something that might indicate to her that you're interested...

OK, like what? I had the idea of dropping a "You know I love you" into conversation, but that sounds trite as Hell, and I also don't want to screw up and drive her off. Yes, I know I suck at this.