How do you engage readers on Literotica?

[ideological_imbroglio]

Only in terms of wanting to increase readership. The type of reader is what's important. I don't go into it with any sense that it's healthy for me to be enabling readers who aren't adult enough at an adults-only erotica short story site to take responsibility for themselves enough to be reading here. I am putting a different emphasis on this than most of the rest of you are on this topic. I'm trying to reach more readers, yes, but not the readers these "you might not want to read this is XXX makes you squeamish" readers. I don't want this type of reader at all, and the reader I'm trying to touch is not pandering.

This feels very arbitrary to me. Like, what -- do you think readers who go "ew, author is wrong gender" and close the tab AREN'T squeamish?

Obviously, feel free to cultivate whatever readership you prefer -- but it sounds less like advice on cultivating readers and more like your particular preferences on what KIND of readers we cultivate.

Which... is fine, I guess? Just that -- this isn't publishing advice you're giving, it's "how to avoid the type of readers I don't like" advice you're giving.

 

[intim8]

I do it to reach specific readers for specific categories/fetishes, trying to strip away impediments to the "right" kind of reader for that material here. ... not a reader I want for my stories--or even to be on Literotica. They aren't adult/mature/healthy enough to be here at all and I believe pandering to their "need" is enabling the condition(s) that make them unhealthy/inappropriate readers here.

OK, that is an interesting point. What is the business case for that kind of screening? Is it something about the kinds of readers who might follow you to other venues and wanting them to be quality "prospects"?

If it is just a moralistic preference, I don't care, but I am genuinely curious about whether you see a business case for it.

 

[KeithD]

And you somehow feel so threatened by that that you can't let it go no matter how often I say do whatever you want? If you ever find me initiating an attack on someone doing it, do let me know. Until then, the point is that, although I have publishing opinions and express them in in discussions like this, I don't initiate gangbangs on those having different opinions.

 

[ideological_imbroglio]

And you somehow feel so threatened by that that you can't let it go no matter how often I say do whatever you want? If you ever find me initiating an attack on someone doing it, do let me know. Until then, the point is that, although I have publishing opinions and express them in in discussions like this, I don't initiate gangbangs on those having different opinions.

Dude, relax. I'm not attacking you, I'm just disagreeing with you.

It's fine -- we're allowed to disagree on this. It's not actually that big of a deal.

ETA: If this post was a reply to someone else, I apologize -- it's hard for me to keep track of who's responding to who.

 

[KeithD]

OK, that is an interesting point. What is the business case for that kind of screening? Is it something about the kinds of readers who might follow you to other venues and wanting them to be quality "prospects"?

I don't project that far. I write what I write and put it out there. I don't intentionally go any further than trying to locate it where it will get the most readers I am targeting. For my GM stories, I am directly targeting the active gay guy--and as I age, I'm targeting with a line of stories the guy--gay or bi--who is now more in the memory stage than the active one. I write all sorts of other types of stories and I don't really bother much with the targeting of them other than keeping them away from my intentional targeting of GM stories.

 

[ideological_imbroglio]

Broadly, and more to the point of the thread:

Aside from sending pictures of my boobs (and other body parts) and participating in sex chats -- both of which I am not interesting in doing -- how do you engage readers? Or do you take a laissez-faire attitude and just post stories, only engaging if and when they initiate the contact (comments and/or private messages). I am very interested in what others are doing to build their readership. Thank you!

One of the things I've noticed that invariably occurs in communities wherein people rate works of art is that artists will start developing a 'meta' -- methods to present their art intended to maximize exposure and high ratings. You can think of it like the 'meta' in various tournament games (akin to how communal knowledge about certain strategies in, say, Magic: The Gathering leads to the development of strategies based around other people's strategies).

People end up bitterly divided into camps regarding what the best 'meta' is, or what is and isn't 'meta' -- but one thing I've learned in these communities is this --

No one can blame you for giving a shit about the amount of exposure you get, but the more you dig into this, the less time and attention you'll have to dedicate to your actual craft: Writing.

That isn't to discourage you from putting yourself out there. By all means! Try your best to get exposure. Everyone who writes does so to be read -- there is nothing wrong with pursuing that. Just keep in mind that if you spend too much time trying to "win" at Literotica, this shit WILL swallow your soul. Take a break now and then. Try not to worry TOO much about "min-maxing" your readership. After all -- if you're not developing your craft as a writer and having fun as you do it, what ARE you doing?

It's like Nietzsche said: Gaze into your navel long enough, and your navel gazes back.

 

[AlexBailey]

…I do it to reach specific readers for specific categories/fetishes, trying to strip away impediments to the "right" kind of reader for that material here.

That is the same reason I include a pro slug in addition to tags.

We have different ways of going about it.

I have a lesbian romance story in the works. I suspect it may get a very different initial response if I were to post it under a new author name rather than risk getting a negative TERF reaction.

Is that what you, as an experienced professional author, would recommend?

 

[KeithD]

Is that what you, as an experienced professional author, would recommend?

Readers (probably male readers) tolerate lesbian stories in general Literotica categories much better than they will tolerate gay male stories there. There's a streak of "they're only lesbian because they haven't had a real man like me yet" attitude in play, I think. But, yes, all of the lesbian stories I've written here have been posted to the lesbian category--and following the separation of accounts, they've all been posted in the name of a lesbian-centered account. I've had some minor FF interaction in bi stories, but the placement of bi stories at Literotica has always been problematic for me and I often just don't submit them here at all.

The importance of perceived author gender was demonstrated to me in the mainstream. My best-selling author series in the mainstream is a light lesbian detective series marketed under a female name. (I got into this when I had a publishing consultation/editorial service and ran a workshop on targeting underoffered genres in the e-book era. I started the light lesbian series to show where niches could be found, and the series took off in profit terms.) There are nearly twenty books on offer in this name. Sales were going real well until half way into the series when I appeared at a book festival with those books and clearly exhibiting as male. Someone who had attended that session went up on Amazon and posted that she was disappointed that the author of the series was revealed as male rather than female. Sales dropped off after that (but not totally). That indicated that some readers/buyers do consider author gender important. I haven't gone to another book festival peddling those books as a male author.

 

[AlexBailey]

Readers (probably male readers) tolerate lesbian stories in general Literotica categories much better than they will tolerate gay male stories there. There's a streak of "they're only lesbian because they haven't had a real man like me yet" attitude in play, I think. But, yes, all of the lesbian stories I've written here have been posted to the lesbian category--and following the separation of accounts, they've all been posted in the name of a lesbian-centered account. I've had some minor FF interaction in bi stories, but the placement of bi stories at Literotica has always been problematic for me and I often just don't submit them here at all.

The importance of perceived author gender was demonstrated to me in the mainstream. My best-selling author series in the mainstream is a light lesbian detective series marketed under a female name. (I got into this when I had a publishing consultation/editorial service and ran a workshop on targeting underoffered genres in the e-book era. I started the light lesbian series to show where niches could be found, and the series took off in profit terms.) There are nearly twenty books on offer in this name. Sales were going real well until half way into the series when I appeared at a book festival with those books and clearly exhibiting as male. Someone who had attended that session went up on Amazon and posted that she was disappointed that the author of the series was revealed as male rather than female. Sales dropped off after that (but not totally). That indicated that some readers/buyers do consider author gender important. I haven't gone to another book festival peddling those books as a male author.

That’s really interesting. Thanks.

It makes me think of Harper Lee.

 

[KeithD]

I know there is a current of thought on "how could a male writer write sellable lesbian works?" or, conversely, "how could a female author write plausible GM works?"

I think in my case it was my acting training. I trained as a youth actor at a professional theater and in that training I had to get into all sorts of characters that weren't me and make them believable. Some were female characters. I think that training has allowed me to immerse myself and write in characters that "aren't me." It probably helps that I'm bi and have had to take different roles sexually during my active life.

 

[AlexBailey]

I know there is a current of thought on "how could a male writer write sellable lesbian works?" or, conversely, "how could a female author write plausible GM works?"

I think in my case it was my acting training. I trained as a youth actor at a professional theater and in that training I had to get into all sorts of characters that weren't me and make them believable. Some were female characters. I think that training has allowed me to immerse myself and write in characters that "aren't me." It probably helps that I'm bi and have had to take different roles sexually during my active life.

What do you see as the issue with bi material being accepted here?

 

[KeithD]

There's no bi category here. That's a site choice. They once entertained the idea of opening a bi category (Laurel even queried me about it) and then allowed collection of poster opinions about it for eighteen months--which were overwhelmingly supportive--and then they abruptly closed out the possibility of having such a category (resulting in one of our regular posters leaving because she felt she'd been blindsided on the permission to collect the opinions from board posts). So, it's not accepted here because the site won't accommodate it.

The site isn't providing even a shed of a home for bi works here, and it's a genre that invites attacks by certain categories of straights if it isn't off in its own category(ies). I indicate it might require more than one category because female-perspective bi can be quite different from male-perspective bi.

 

[ideological_imbroglio]

There's no bi category here. That's a site choice. They once entertained the idea of opening a bi category (Laurel even queried me about it) and then allowed collection of poster opinions about it for eighteen months--which were overwhelmingly supportive--and then they abruptly closed out the possibility of having such a category (resulting in one of our regular posters leaving because she felt she'd been blindsided on the permission to collect the opinions from board posts). So, it's not accepted here because the site won't accommodate it.

The site isn't providing even a shed of a home for bi works here, and it's a genre that invites attacks by certain categories of straights if it isn't off in its own category(ies). I indicate it might require more than one category because female-perspective bi can be quite different from male-perspective bi.

In my (limited, but still notable) experience, this is extremely true. Straight folk (particularly men) can get REALLY weird just because a guy gets a little hot and heavy with another guy.

(This weirdness sometimes extends to women, too. I've seen straight AND bi women get excessively weird over a bisexual guy, insisting that sucking cock makes them 'gay'. I've never understood this shit beyond that it has something to do with just how weird some of us get in regards to gender and its intersection with sex.)

 

[NuclearGorilla]

I have nothing groundbreaking to add, but I have found that if you put a little note at the end of the story letting readers know that they don't need an account to drop a rating or comment, the engagement goes way up.

Predictably, about 80% of the comments will be anonymous, so that doesn't help much if you are looking to make friends. If you're just looking for a nice vanity metric or you legitimately wish to solicit feedback, it's not a bad way to accomplish that.

Most readers aren't going to make it to your author page, so if you want people to comment, message, or connect with you on Literotica, don't be afraid to ask at the end of your submission! Let people know you love them.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Like, sure, I get it; it DOES come off as defensive. But... y'know that people who are acting defensive typically don't stop BEING defensive when you attack them, right?

Who is Keith attacking?

 

[ideological_imbroglio]

Who is Keith attacking?

Given the overall temperature of the conversation prior, I think it's best for me to just let it go. I disagree with Keith's position, but I also don't think it's really that important.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

That is the same reason I include a pro slug in addition to tags.

Yes, protecting the score. You want only readers who will score you well and tell you how great you are to read it. That is the message that the disclaimer sends, the vibe that it puts out, and it's an arrogant and whiny one, whether you realize it or not.

 

[AlexBailey]

Yes, protecting the score. You want only readers who will score you well and tell you how great you are to read it. That is the message that the disclaimer sends, the vibe that it puts out, and it's an arrogant and whiny one, whether you realize it or not.

How many more times do you intend to offer your same insulting opinion as fact?

 

[Vitriolhack]

Write because you want to write and because you have something to say.

Readers will show up and stay, if you have talent.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

How many more times do you intend to offer your same insulting opinion as fact?

How many more times are you going to keep replying to me after telling me that you're done with me?

 

[AlexBailey]

How many more times are you going to keep replying to me after telling me that you're done with me?

I’m done considering your posts to have value. I explained that before but you are apparently choosing to ignore it.

Please just stop addressing me. I don’t want your input.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Please just stop addressing me. I don’t want your input.

Yes you do, or you wouldn't keep talking to me.

Intim8 said he was done with me. And he is. He's ignored me for two days now. He's smart enough to not stick his foot any further down his mouth. You on the other hand, you seem to like the attention, and you definitely need to have the last word. It's silly and childish. So do what you want. the choice is yours, but I'd advise you not to lie to yourself - in front of everyone I might add.

 

[AlexBailey]

Yes you do, or you wouldn't keep talking to me.

Intim8 said he was done with me. And he is. He's ignored me for two days now. He's smart enough to not stick his foot any further down his mouth. You on the other hand, you seem to like the attention, and you definitely need to have the last word. It's silly and childish. So do what you want. the choice is yours, but I'd advise you not to lie to yourself - in front of everyone I might add.

You’re a troll.

Enough. I won’t waste more time with you. Let’s watch and see how you try to bait me some more.

 

[AchtungNight]

I write my characters as the people I want them to be, not necessarily thinking about realism and often only recognizing logic and personality when I am reviewing later (wait, would he really do this?). I have used both male and female perspectives many times, hard to say which I prefer. I do try to get into women’s heads more, that’s because of personal attraction to them. My bi characters often follow chaotic patterns of lust or go with whoever is available at the moment and attracted to them. They are polyamorous, easily get over jealousy, and are disappointed by short term or casual relationships but accept the situation with resignation. At least they got laid. This may not be realistic, but it’s a simple formula to keep me writing. Maybe it works on readers too.

I often see the notification beacon up top as a personal message from someone and if the message in question is an attack- the threat response unit in my brain demands I answer. So, argumentative people- if you truly don’t want me to answer you, stop replying to me. Of course, a lot of the time, people feel they need to assert they are right, have the last word, grind down opposition… threat response goes both ways.

 

[ideological_imbroglio]

Intim8 said he was done with me. And he is. He's ignored me for two days now. He's smart enough to not stick his foot any further down his mouth. You on the other hand, you seem to like the attention, and you definitely need to have the last word. It's silly and childish. So do what you want. the choice is yours, but I'd advise you not to lie to yourself - in front of everyone I might add. I get disagreeing over this, but acting like the decision to put a blurb at the top of your story is akin to exposing the author's innate weakness -- rather than just a decision some authors on a website for smut sometimes make -- is extremely silly.

Christ. What even are the stakes, here? Do you think we're all posting our stories from a room full of starving werewolves who will pounce at the first sign of fear?

Again, it's fine to disagree about whether we should put up blurbs. Hell, I don't use 'em! I also don't self-upvote. But if someone else does, I don't act like it's a character flaw. It's just two people posting stories on a free smut-site who disagree about something that's relatively trivial.

ETA: Like, seriously, I get how internet discussions can get out of hand, particularly when everyone starts bandwagoning on one side or another, but I desperately want to know how on earth someone's opinion on sticking a blurb at the top of a smut-story REALLY matters.