How liberal/conservative are you?

[Homburg]

Yes. To all of this. Trust me, the USPS is fine and dandy.

I have to deal with the stone age publishing world that will not accept manuscript submissions via email. *Grumbles* I mail my hard copies from this island and cross my fingers that they make the deadlines...but usually they don't. Sometimes they get there in two weeks, sometimes two months, sometimes nine months, sometimes not at all.

K, aren't there some sort of print completion services you could use on this side of the Pacific? Something as basic as a kinkos here can be sent a word document, told to print it, and then mail it, and they do so for reasonable rates (usually). It might even be cheaper in total than your shipping fees from the island, as well as being more reliable vis a vis shipping times.

Just a thought.

 

[JMohegan]

It's called capitalism. Not many people can run a Fortune 500 company. The market sets the price just as it does for people who can throw a baseball 100 mph. Why does Georgia pay Mark Richt almost 3 million dollars to coach football when any generic coach would work for a million? Because he wins.

The unions killed the car companies by paying workers over 70 dollars an hour for turning bolts with an air wrench. When Toyota and Honda was paying 50 dollars an hour. I don't know about you, but I'd rather make 50 dollars an hour at a company who will be successful than 70 at one who might not survive. And that is counting benefits.

They might not be in such a mess if Chrysler was allowed to fail 30 years ago or whenever it was. I'll never set foot on a Chrysler or GM lot.

Capitalism is defined as an economic system in which the means of producing wealth are privately owned. Collective bargaining is fair game. To the extent that your market theory sets the price for the top, then it sets the price for the bottom, too.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather make 300,000 a year sans lavish perks at a successful company, than millions at one that might not survive. Unless, of course, my contract contained a multi-million dollar parachute - in which case, WHOOPIE! I won't really care.

Rick Wagoner, forced to resign earlier this year, had been on top at GM since 2000 - presiding over $82 billion in losses in the past 4 years. As CEO, he focused on the production of pickup trucks and SUVs. GM offered its first full-scale hybrids in 2007, ten freakin' years after Toyota introduced the Prius.

 

[WriterDom]

I had 130,000 miles on my Toyota truck and it was in the shop only one time.

 

[DVS]

Capitalism is good. I think a company and its shareholders can benefit from capitalism. But, the executive in charge when profits start to go down should see the writing on the wall, when the competition is creating innovative products that the customer wants. Maybe a change in business strategy was in order? But, what does he care? He's guaranteed a hefty cash payment, even if the company fails.

And, there comes a time when the perks promised to workers in more profitable days need to be renegotiated for the better of the whole...yes, even if it's a union contract. Toyota and Honda don't offer the "till death do us part" health package to their workers, so they don't have that financial burden on their shoulders.

Their executives are worth what they're paid. Their company is making a product that the customer wants, the workers are happy with their job, they produce an automobile that lasts longer than the competition, and they aren't asking for a bailout.

I don't care how much an executive makes, when the company stays in the black. I do care what the executive makes if he's in charge when a company fails AND he still gets a multi-million $$ severance when he exits through the back door.

Sure, some will say you need to pay for the best people, and that's why CEOs are paid so well. Again, I have no problem with that, so long as the company continues to show a profit. That tells me that CEO is worth what he makes. But, come on...when someone fucks up and the company crashes, they don't need a $$$$ settlement, essentially taking the shareholder's investment with them. That's not capitalism. That's just theft.

 

[Keroin]

yes Ma'am....


​

Well, at least someone is doing what they're told around here!

*Makes note to send extra crate of mangoes to Shank*

K, aren't there some sort of print completion services you could use on this side of the Pacific? Something as basic as a kinkos here can be sent a word document, told to print it, and then mail it, and they do so for reasonable rates (usually). It might even be cheaper in total than your shipping fees from the island, as well as being more reliable vis a vis shipping times.

Just a thought.

Good thought! Something I never considered - mostly because I didn't know it was an option. I will investigate. Thanks H!

 

[DVS]

I had 130,000 miles on my Toyota truck and it was in the shop only one time.

My '94 honda had 156,000 miles on it and sure, I had to replace small things from time to time, but the engine and transmission never needed anything.

And, someone stole it and when I got it back, the engine and transimission were what they took. They didn't seem bothered that there were 156,000 miles on it, either. I've never had a GM car last over 100,000 miles. My last Chevy died at 85,000.

 

[DVS]

Well, at least someone is doing what they're told around here!

*Makes note to send extra crate of mangoes to Shank*



Good thought! Something I never considered - mostly because I didn't know it was an option. I will investigate. Thanks H!

What? No mangoes for him?

 

[Homburg]

Good thought! Something I never considered - mostly because I didn't know it was an option. I will investigate. Thanks H!

Quite welcome. I've not used them, but looked into them at one point. If you can't make headway on it, I have a friend that runs a small publishing house. I can see if she knows of any.

 

[caela]

You cannot put a roof of any kind over your head in a city where you can live bagging distance from bag-it grocer without additional subsidy unless you crowd seven to an apartment. It is just *literally* not possible. I'm not trying to beat the drum for the sake of Wanda who could be the laziest loser on earth, but you're still going to be paying. Forcing such person into a min wage workweek for the sake of proving a point is still an expensive point to make, because it's simply not enough money, no matter how you slice.

It's not Robin Hood, it's a society. We're all here and should I ever get so fucked up (which is not the result of fucked up choices remotely as often as the result of hard luck and illness in combination, but that's a scary prospect to admit till you have to) I like to think I won't be wished dead by everyone I meet.

My meager 1200-2000 bucks in taxation could go for Wanda, a missile, school for other people's children because I don't have any, social services for other people's children, because I don't have any, playgrounds for other people's children because I don't have any - but I do see a VALUE in all those things.

It could even fund a golden toilet seat or congressional blow, it's just the crap shoot I have to take as a participant in this country everyone loves till it's time to pull out your checkbook.

Here I think is where we are going to have to, respectfully, agree to disagree. You seem to be of the belief (and I could be reading you wrong, please correct me if so) that we all have some responsibility to each other simply by virtue of being a part of the same country. I know a lot of people who share this belief and I won't say there is anything wrong with it...I simply don't share it.

I believe that my responsibility is to care for myself and my child (and various other family members should the need arise) not for me, myself, and Wanda. A lot of people consider it bitchy in the least, and some consider it evil at the worst. I simply do not feel any obligation to my fellow man due to geography, race, creed, religion etc. So from my perspective, taking my money and giving it to our fictional, Wanda, IS a form of theft. It is taking money from my table (money that could be used to feed, clothe, and educate MY child, and as a single parent that's money I think I can spend better than the gov't) and handing it over to someone else.

The above isn't to say I don't believe in taxes at all mind you, they are a necessary evil for things like roads, schools, public defense etc...I just have a major problem with welfare handouts. If I want to give to charity I'll give to one of my choosing, the gov't shouldn't be forcing me to do it with every paycheck I get.

Like I said though, just my own opinion, though one that's become stronger since I had my daughter and am now trying to support her on my own. Not a lot of people agree with me and I'm o.k. with that. Since I believe we're at am impasse now I'll kindly bow out of this aspect of the conversation.

 

[caela]

My '94 honda had 156,000 miles on it and sure, I had to replace small things from time to time, but the engine and transmission never needed anything.

And, someone stole it and when I got it back, the engine and transimission were what they took. They didn't seem bothered that there were 156,000 miles on it, either. I've never had a GM car last over 100,000 miles. My last Chevy died at 85,000.

My lil Ford truck as a 130,000+ (not sure exactly w/out running to check the odometer) on it and still runs like a dream. Haven't had to have anything major replaced on it yet.

~knock on wood~

 

[Keroin]

My '94 honda had 156,000 miles on it and sure, I had to replace small things from time to time, but the engine and transmission never needed anything.

And, someone stole it and when I got it back, the engine and transimission were what they took. They didn't seem bothered that there were 156,000 miles on it, either. I've never had a GM car last over 100,000 miles. My last Chevy died at 85,000.

Toyota trucks are it. GM? Chevy? Pffflllt.

Toyota for trucks. Honda for dirtbikes. Yamaha for outboard motors. Amen.

Oh, and I'll also send H some mangoes for his excellent suggestion but he doesn't like them so Viv and MIS will end up eating them.

 

[Homburg]

Here I think is where we are going to have to, respectfully, agree to disagree. You seem to be of the belief (and I could be reading you wrong, please correct me if so) that we all have some responsibility to each other simply by virtue of being a part of the same country. I know a lot of people who share this belief and I won't say there is anything wrong with it...I simply don't share it.

Your neighbours' tax money pays for the fire departments that will put out the fire if your house goes up in a blaze. Their taxes pay for the police department that makes your neighbourhood safer. And your countrymen pay the taxes that make the military possible that keeps the wolves from your door.

Each of these things are publically supported services that are useful, sensical, and, I would hazard to guess, okay in your book.

Why do we support these services? Because it adds value to the community, state, and nation, and provides services that we could largely not afford as individuals. Personally, I can't afford private security, an army on call, and my own fire service. I rather enjoy the protection afforded by the govt version.

Strengthening the community is important. We pool our buying power, accept an honestly slight burden in the form of taxes, and reap benefits far beyond what we could individually procure (in most cases). Well, the same could be said for the Wanda's of the country. Do we have a pressing obligation to help them simply because they exist within our borders? Not necessarily. Is there worth in it though? Good question.

Let's examine a more extreme case than Wanda - prison inmates. Truly unpleasant people who have been exiled away from society for their misdeeds. Do we owe them education support, etc? Well, yes, we owe them some support minimally because they can't exactly leave to go find things like medical care. But what about education, job skills, etc? Anyone that studies penology, and is honest, will tell you that education, job training, and preparation for real world integration reduces recidivism rates. The short version is that teaching an inmate to swing a hammer, install electrical fixtures, and the like gives him a chance at a better life outside, thus less need to turn back to crime.

Insert Wanda into this. Wanda may not be prone to crime, but if her situation gets desperate enough, she just might turn to vice or outright crime to keep food on the table. If she really can't accomplish it, she will wind up as yet another homeless person. Call me crazy, but I don't want more criminals and homeless people.

The system failed many of these folk along the way. Education is another service government provides using our tax dollars, and most people don't bitch about it. Again, public education is a better alternative than the sort of schooling that most of us can afford. The major point of public education is supposed to be equipping young people with the skills and knowledge to be productive members of society, at least at some minimally useful level. Far too many of the people at the bottom rungs of society do not possess the skills needed to get by in the capitalist world. Quite a few of them would benefit from those skills, and enter the job force, and then we would have another productive taxpayer. Doesn't that beat another street person?

And I'm not blaming the d system there. Circumstances happen, and teachers can only work with what the students will let them work with. But the system should be such as to have ways of helping those kids that need it most.

Overall, I see a pressing need for a safety net. When the bottom falls out, and it has fallen out a LOT as of late, we need something in place to keep people from totally hitting rock bottom. We do not need thousands of people on the streets looking for shelter. We're one of the richest nations in the world for fuck's sake.

Do we need to do more? No. Not at all. No legal duty. But we can. And the result would be more people paying taxes, producing goods and services, and staying off the streets and out of prisons. That means a stronger nation all around.

 

[caela]

I did read your post Homburg (and it's well written), but like I said, I am leaving this aspect of the conversation. My views and those of many here simply don't agree (and that's fine with me ) and they aren't going to no matter how many fictitious people and scenarios we come up with.

ETA: I will make one last comment actually since training people is mentioned in your post...I already agreed with the idea of training programs. I would love to see more of them actually. The more skilled workers we have the better. What I don't like (and see way to many of) are gov't handouts.

Now I am really shutting up and won't reply to this particular subject any longer lol.

 

[caela]

Toyota trucks are it. GM? Chevy? Pffflllt.

Toyota for trucks. Honda for dirtbikes. Yamaha for outboard motors. Amen.

Oh, and I'll also send H some mangoes for his excellent suggestion but he doesn't like them so Viv and MIS will end up eating them.

What about actual cars? I need to look into something that is both affordable and gets decent gas mileage. Used is the most likely option on the table though new is a pretty dream lol. For now my truck is fine but my daughter won't be in a carseat forever and is, eventually going to need stuff hauled around so a trunk would be nice instead of having it rattle around in a truck bed.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't have kids, so I can't say I'm particularly thrilled about my tax money going to support the public school systems and not, you know, some sort of health insurance for me. It's ok that an otherwise healthy 25-year-old can keel over and die anytime because she doesn't have the money to go to the doctor, but God forbid everyone's dumbfuck children not be coddled (we can't call it educated) and fed and babysat every day.

I direct everyone here and here for the official Bunny Rants on Health Care.

We're all selfish. And we all want "our share" of the handout.

That is all.

 

[Netzach]

It's called capitalism. Not many people can run a Fortune 500 company. The market sets the price just as it does for people who can throw a baseball 100 mph. Why does Georgia pay Mark Richt almost 3 million dollars to coach football when any generic coach would work for a million? Because he wins.

When he keeps losing and losing or if he cheats and fixes games, he gets fired.

 

[Homburg]

I did read your post Homburg (and it's well written), but like I said, I am leaving this aspect of the conversation. My views and those of many here simply don't agree (and that's fine with me ) and they aren't going to no matter how many fictitious people and scenarios we come up with.

ETA: I will make one last comment actually since training people is mentioned in your post...I already agreed with the idea of training programs. I would love to see more of them actually. The more skilled workers we have the better. What I don't like (and see way to many of) are gov't handouts.

Now I am really shutting up and won't reply to this particular subject any longer lol.

I can understand it. I guess I would like to see personal handouts treated the same way as corporate handouts. Give folks the help they need, and attach happy little conditions to it like "attend job training", "apply to get jobs", "keep a job when you get one", etc. Unfortunately, we aren't very diligent on attaching conditions to corporate handouts either.

Le sigh.

 

[WriterDom]

When he keeps losing and losing or if he cheats and fixes games, he gets fired.

Coaches and CEO's can have bad years. Shit happens. Depending on the overall economy and the sector you are involved with. My sister-in-law and nephew are in real estate in Charlotte and life sucks for them. Now she's 62 or so and has some great years and more than a couple of million in the bank I would guess. Or she did before the crash. Of her own money. I imagine she's been burning through that now. It doesn't mean she's a bad saleswoman.

If this thing turns in six months she'll be fine. She loves to work. Keeps her away from my brother. And she can't divorce him now or he'll get alimony.

 

[JMohegan]

I had 130,000 miles on my Toyota truck and it was in the shop only one time.

Very impressive.

I'd be interested in your reaction to the following excerpt from this 2007 article on the pay of auto executives.



GM CEO Rick Wagoner earned $9.3 million in salary and bonus in 2006, nearly double what he earned in 2005.

Chrysler's new CEO, Bob Nardelli, became a symbol of corporate excess when he left Home Depot early this year with a $210 million severance package. Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally, got $27.8 million in salary and bonus in his first few months on the job, including an $18.5 million signing bonus.


"There is a huge difference between Asia and here when it comes to the top executive compensation," says Han Kim, a professor of business administration at the University of Michigan. "Rarely in Asia, especially Japan and Korea, do the CEOs get paid more than a million dollars."

Japanese companies are not required to break out salaries and bonuses for top executives. Instead, they lump them together. Last year, Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined $21.6 million in salary and bonuses, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. U.K. firm Manifest Information Services, which analyzes proxy information, estimates Toyota's top executive, Hiroshi Okuda, earned $903,000 in 2006.

At Honda, the top 21 earned $11.1 million, combined, in salary and bonuses, SEC filings show.

"There is this huge gap between the average worker and the CEO, and the gap is greatest in the U.S.," Kim says. "That kind of thing might work where individual work counts the most, but in the manufacturing sector, it's all about teamwork."

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Told You

I checked “Very Liberal” since there was no listing for “Realist.” What do I mean by that? I did a post in the café in early October of 2007 that got no comments or responses. Here is the link:

Reality​

The last paragraph is the kicker. If anyone has had his portfolio or 401(k) implode, he can’t say he wasn’t warned. As for schadenfreude, I ‘ll have mine on the half-shell with a tall grass of warm blood, thank you.

[The post was in a thread on the ill treatment given to disabled veterans returning from Iraq.] I warned everyone that I knew that the idea of going after Saddam, the architect of 9/11, was both nonsense and a fool’s errand. I also knew that my advice would be regarded with utter contempt. It was. Any realistic view of the Cheney-Bush rush to war had to see that it was all about oil. Well, hell, if the fools intend to make bucks for Haliburton, who am I to stand aside from that level of profit?

As far as the prediction of economic turbulence before the 2008 election, my only fear that it would happen after the 15th of October. It usually takes 4-5 weeks to anything to penetrate the general consciousness – excepting the latest crap from some reality show. Fortunately, the idiot Paulson decided to screw the “other team” by letting Lehman Bros go down the tube on September 15th. It seems never to have occurred to him that Lehman’s collapse could suck the entire economy into the vortex. So instead of the election being a toss up between Obama and McCain, Obama was assured of a win.

Oh, by the way, I define happiness as a SPY put @ $135 and GE @ $30 – laughing all the way to the bank.

Actually, I’m an Economic Determinist. The Conservative is happiest when those at the bottom are fighting like junk yard dogs over a few pathetic scraps– that way they don’t notice all the fun at the top. [But then as Simone de Beaviour observed: America is the only industrialized country in the world with a fascist working class]

********​

As I take note of the huge number of people here who classify themselves as liberal but opposed to big government, I can’t help but think that John M Olin must be laughing hard enough to spit his coffin open. The puppet master certainly knew how to pull everyone’s strings!

 

[Keroin]

Your neighbours' tax money pays for the fire departments that will put out the fire if your house goes up in a blaze. Their taxes pay for the police department that makes your neighbourhood safer. And your countrymen pay the taxes that make the military possible that keeps the wolves from your door.

Each of these things are publically supported services that are useful, sensical, and, I would hazard to guess, okay in your book.

Why do we support these services? Because it adds value to the community, state, and nation, and provides services that we could largely not afford as individuals. Personally, I can't afford private security, an army on call, and my own fire service. I rather enjoy the protection afforded by the govt version.

Strengthening the community is important. We pool our buying power, accept an honestly slight burden in the form of taxes, and reap benefits far beyond what we could individually procure (in most cases). Well, the same could be said for the Wanda's of the country. Do we have a pressing obligation to help them simply because they exist within our borders? Not necessarily. Is there worth in it though? Good question.

Let's examine a more extreme case than Wanda - prison inmates. Truly unpleasant people who have been exiled away from society for their misdeeds. Do we owe them education support, etc? Well, yes, we owe them some support minimally because they can't exactly leave to go find things like medical care. But what about education, job skills, etc? Anyone that studies penology, and is honest, will tell you that education, job training, and preparation for real world integration reduces recidivism rates. The short version is that teaching an inmate to swing a hammer, install electrical fixtures, and the like gives him a chance at a better life outside, thus less need to turn back to crime.

Insert Wanda into this. Wanda may not be prone to crime, but if her situation gets desperate enough, she just might turn to vice or outright crime to keep food on the table. If she really can't accomplish it, she will wind up as yet another homeless person. Call me crazy, but I don't want more criminals and homeless people.

The system failed many of these folk along the way. Education is another service government provides using our tax dollars, and most people don't bitch about it. Again, public education is a better alternative than the sort of schooling that most of us can afford. The major point of public education is supposed to be equipping young people with the skills and knowledge to be productive members of society, at least at some minimally useful level. Far too many of the people at the bottom rungs of society do not possess the skills needed to get by in the capitalist world. Quite a few of them would benefit from those skills, and enter the job force, and then we would have another productive taxpayer. Doesn't that beat another street person?

And I'm not blaming the d system there. Circumstances happen, and teachers can only work with what the students will let them work with. But the system should be such as to have ways of helping those kids that need it most.

Overall, I see a pressing need for a safety net. When the bottom falls out, and it has fallen out a LOT as of late, we need something in place to keep people from totally hitting rock bottom. We do not need thousands of people on the streets looking for shelter. We're one of the richest nations in the world for fuck's sake.

Do we need to do more? No. Not at all. No legal duty. But we can. And the result would be more people paying taxes, producing goods and services, and staying off the streets and out of prisons. That means a stronger nation all around.

*Applauds* Very well put indeed.

I used to bitch and moan about where my tax money went, the lazy bums on welfare, the government handouts for people who sit on their fat asses while I work my ass off, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Then I went and walked through the world for awhile. I learned...

1. I am rich and have nothing to complain about.
2. Our system may not be perfect but the alternative, (ie. the places without social safety nets), is horrific.
3. The guy with a low IQ who can't throw a 100mph fastball, should still have the right to live with dignity and respect.

Now I pay happily and quietly.

What about actual cars? I need to look into something that is both affordable and gets decent gas mileage. Used is the most likely option on the table though new is a pretty dream lol. For now my truck is fine but my daughter won't be in a carseat forever and is, eventually going to need stuff hauled around so a trunk would be nice instead of having it rattle around in a truck bed.

Oh Toyota also makes excellent cars, I just haven't owned a car for years and years. Ahm a truck gal! The Camry is a good model. Nowadays you should be able to pick up a used model for cheap. Are they still putting out the "Lemon Aid" books? I know those used to be a good resource for finding out which cars, models and years were most reliable.

My last truck was a Ford. Helluva vehicle.

Stupidest car on the planet? PT Cruiser. Honestly, WTF?

 

[Netzach]

Coaches and CEO's can have bad years. Shit happens.

Yes it does. And when it keeps happening to most people they get fired. And they definitely don't get hefty bonuses.

 

[CutieMouse]

I can understand it. I guess I would like to see personal handouts treated the same way as corporate handouts. Give folks the help they need, and attach happy little conditions to it like "attend job training", "apply to get jobs", "keep a job when you get one", etc. Unfortunately, we aren't very diligent on attaching conditions to corporate handouts either.

Le sigh.

I know this part of the conversation is somewhat over, but welfare changed to TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) in July of 1997. People who qualify for TANF are restricted to a lifetime benefits time line of 60 months (yes in some ways that's a lot, in some ways it isn't).

In 1996 there were 12,320,970 on welfare with a poverty rate of 11% and unemployment rate of 5.4%.

In 2007 there were 3,895,407 on TANF with a poverty rate of 9.8% and unemployment rate of 4.6%.

TANF sets forward the following work requirements necessary for benefits:

1. Recipients (with few exceptions) must work as soon as they are job ready or no later than two years after coming on assistance.
2. Single parents are required to participate in work activities for at least 30 hours per week. Two-parent families must participate in work activities 35 or 55 hours a week, depending upon circumstances.
3. Failure to participate in work requirements can result in a reduction or termination of benefits to the family.
4. States, in FY 2004, have to ensure that 50 percent of all families and 90 percent of two-parent families are participating in work activities. If a state reduces its caseload, without restricting eligibility, it can receive a caseload reduction credit. This credit reduces the minimum participation rates the state must achieve.

(data here)

Yes there are still assholes sitting around collecting their government check and laughing all the way to the bank, but the system is vastly improved over what it was. (Thank you President Clinton.)

***

Now to the gray areas.

I am employed full time [in retail]. I'm dammed good at what I do; I just barely make enough to get by - with a roommate to split the bills, a paid off car, frugal living, and a modest child support payment to my ex each month. My employer does not provide health care benefits. I have been trying to get a job with health care benefits (that also pays enough to at least maintain the status quo, and allows for my visitation schedule), for about a year now. I have been unsuccessful in that endeavor.

I also have a [years ago] screwed up wrist, that probably has a decent amount of nerve damage at this point. I wear a brace to relieve the pressure, I'm looking into acupuncture, I rarely do art, or write, or anything stressful these days; I'm teaching myself to use my left hand more (so typing left handed right now).

In order to improve my chances in life and be a more productive member of society I have to go back to college.
In order to go back to college, I have to fix my wrist.
In order to fix my wrist, I have to have health insurance.
In order to have health insurance, I need a better job... which means college.
or
In order to have health insurance, I could quit my current job and qualify for TANF/Medicaid - something my personal ethics will not allow me to do. Because the current system (improved as it is) has no room for someone like me.

So instead of getting treatment that will stop the progression of the issue and enable me to continue being productive, I cobble things together and keep putting money in my savings account [expecting I'll need surgery at some point], and crossing my left fingers that I'll figure things out - awfully dammed hard to do art or conserve/bind books without the full use of one's hands, you see [ultimate goal].

I don't want there to be "handouts". I'm naive enough to think *most* people would be thankful instead of abusing the system. But IMO it is incredibly stupid that we are one of the most powerful, wealthy, and productive countries in the world, but our society suffers due to the lack of a functional health-safety net.

 

[Keroin]

I know this part of the conversation is somewhat over, but welfare changed to TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) in July of 1997. People who qualify for TANF are restricted to a lifetime benefits time line of 60 months (yes in some ways that's a lot, in some ways it isn't).

In 1996 there were 12,320,970 on welfare with a poverty rate of 11% and unemployment rate of 5.4%.

In 2007 there were 3,895,407 on TANF with a poverty rate of 9.8% and unemployment rate of 4.6%.



(data here)

Yes there are still assholes sitting around collecting their government check and laughing all the way to the bank, but the system is vastly improved over what it was. (Thank you President Clinton.)

***

Now to the gray areas.

I am employed full time [in retail]. I'm dammed good at what I do; I just barely make enough to get by - with a roommate to split the bills, a paid off car, frugal living, and a modest child support payment to my ex each month. My employer does not provide health care benefits. I have been trying to get a job with health care benefits (that also pays enough to at least maintain the status quo, and allows for my visitation schedule), for about a year now. I have been unsuccessful in that endeavor.

I also have a [years ago] screwed up wrist, that probably has a decent amount of nerve damage at this point. I wear a brace to relieve the pressure, I'm looking into acupuncture, I rarely do art, or write, or anything stressful these days; I'm teaching myself to use my left hand more (so typing left handed right now).

In order to improve my chances in life and be a more productive member of society I have to go back to college.
In order to go back to college, I have to fix my wrist.
In order to fix my wrist, I have to have health insurance.
In order to have health insurance, I need a better job... which means college.
or
In order to have health insurance, I could quit my current job and qualify for TANF/Medicaid - something my personal ethics will not allow me to do. Because the current system (improved as it is) has no room for someone like me.

So instead of getting treatment that will stop the progression of the issue and enable me to continue being productive, I cobble things together and keep putting money in my savings account [expecting I'll need surgery at some point], and crossing my left fingers that I'll figure things out - awfully dammed hard to do art or conserve/bind books without the full use of one's hands, you see [ultimate goal].

I don't want there to be "handouts". I'm naive enough to think *most* people would be thankful instead of abusing the system. But IMO it is incredibly stupid that we are one of the most powerful, wealthy, and productive countries in the world, but our society suffers due to the lack of a functional health-safety net.

CM for president.

Actually, there are a few people on this board I'd like to see in politics.

 

[Homburg]

CM for president.

Actually, there are a few people on this board I'd like to see in politics.

The collective sexually-checkered pasts here would make us ineligible to run on anything other than a republican ticket.