How liberal/conservative are you?

[graceanne]

Wow, you all are awake and in fighting form EARLY today!

Good coffee?

 

[Netzach]

I forget who said earlier that they were 'pro-education', which was an interesting statement to me because I've never heard a politician admit to being anti-education, and for that matter I've never heard one in serious contention who didn't take the automatic and arbitrary position that we need to Spend More Money On Schools. Sure, other things might be tossed into the mix, standards testing and so on, but it's been pretty much a given that schools just always always always need more money than they're getting.

But it's never analyzed in the realm of public discussion. What does it matter how much money we spend on schools, if the most of it is going to feed bloated administrative overhead?

That's the sort of thing we need an honest voice on. The reason I'm so big on keeping the government out of things whenever possible is because the government basically creates unaccountable monopolies in areas it moves into, and the oversight gets buried in mountains of bureaucratic minutiae. I remember the big push to computerize schools, as if a computer magically makes learning improve. Bullshit. Sure, a modicum of computer literacy is pretty much a necessity for damn near every job out there, and training is necessary for that. But for teaching fundamental education? Not at all. I learned my math and reading with nary a computer involved in the process.

But it sounds sexy, it's good advertising for a campaign, and it ultimately diverts money from areas that need it. Or it flat out is money that doesn't need to be spent in that sector.

Corporate excess is a problem, but government excess and waste is worse by an order of magnitude because corporations have multiple areas of vulnerability- profit margin, litigation, legislation. Government bureaucracies by their nature really aren't vulnerable to much of anything, especially in such a large and labyrinthine system such as ours. Corporations can be broken by law. Governments are law. Combine this with slick marketing, and we end up drowning in red tape.

ETA: This is why I want somebody with some balls in there to stab at the sacred cows.

Meh, it's a question of urgency. If we wanted to rock that mofo badly enough, we simply would. We'd put the screws to it, we'd pump enough money in so that some bloat is simply an accepted fact and keeps John Mc Cain's red pen busy, and there'd still be enough for us to be the best.

The Military is the largest federally run, tax-funded thing we got.

It sure does some things bloated and silly and no career enlisted or other person with any experience in it will fail to have a good joke or seven about same - but no one complains because when it needs to rock when it needs to promote excellence, when it needs to be the best in the world, by God we can do it.

Why don't people have the same expectations on schools? We'd rather have low standards, widespread, that don't cost much, rather than variance and elite anything. I'm not saying fail to increase scrutiny and accountability, but this trimming of everything down to the bone in the process, where the kids are always the first to suffer and last to benefit, isn't going to help.

Why not come at this from both sides at once? An old, but more effective tactic than just chasing.

 

[Netzach]

--



The bolded part is what makes me blow a fuse. Isn't GM's CEO going to Toys'r'us now? Mother Jesus Balls. Why would anyone hire a twit that pissed away that much money, market position, and brand cache? It's insipid.

Have you looked at THEIR numbers lately?

I guess they wanted someone who they knew could put them out of their misery fastest?

 

[ZRT]

Meh, it's a question of urgency. If we wanted to rock that mofo badly enough, we simply would. We'd put the screws to it, we'd pump enough money in so that some bloat is simply an accepted fact and keeps John Mc Cain's red pen busy, and there'd still be enough for us to be the best.

The Military is the largest federally run, tax-funded thing we got.

It sure does some things bloated and silly and no career enlisted or other person with any experience in it will fail to have a good joke or seven about same - but no one complains because when it needs to rock when it needs to promote excellence, when it needs to be the best in the world, by God we can do it.

Why don't people have the same expectations on schools? We'd rather have low standards, widespread, that don't cost much, rather than variance and elite anything. I'm not saying fail to increase scrutiny and accountability, but this trimming of everything down to the bone in the process, where the kids are always the first to suffer and last to benefit, isn't going to help.

Why not come at this from both sides at once? An old, but more effective tactic than just chasing.

My problem is that we have pumped money and money and money into the schools. Every damned politician who comes along knows full and well that it's a surefire crowd pleaser to pander to 'education needs more money', and the best part is that they don't really have to do anything beyond throwing more money into the system, just say 'I fought to get X number of dollars into the school budget'. Of course, the next politician who comes along to compete with them will point out that the grades still suck, dropout rates are abysmal, and hey, we need still more money!

I'm not talking cuts, though some judicious trimming might be handy. I'm just talking about stricter oversight of the money we are spending.

The most common refuge of the scoundrel is among those things that are 'common sense' and known to be beneficial. It's incumbent on us to therefore monitor our expenditures in those directions veeeeeery carefully. Just because some jackass district superintendent wails about how he needs more money for his district doesn't mean we need to throw our common sense out the window and just give it to him.

The military analogy fails somewhat because there is a lot of criticism of the military and its spending practices. Sure, the oversight isn't as strong as it should be for that either, but at least you have a strong contingent that regards the military with a jaded eye, and a goodly number of people who question its purpose and existence, giving us something resembling a counterbalance to the 'throw money at it and let it roll' situation.

Furthermore, shoveling money at a military can seriously damage its effectiveness. Witness the Royal Navy, which prior to the Napoleonic Wars was always strapped for funding, which served to keep the command structure lean, hungry, and efficient. Post-Trafalgar and the virtual canonization of Nelson, the RN came out as somewhat nationally sacred, and proceeded to decay as an institution until the late 1890s. If Jackie Fisher hadn't rebuilt it into fighting form, the RN would've been utterly useless when World War 1 rolled around. Churchill said that Jellico was the only man on either side who could lose the war in a single day, and the primary reason they were actually capable of carrying out their job was because Fisher got them shaken out of parade mode and back into a fighting navy mindset.

The key is in remembering that the rats always start climbing to the top and that all government activity must be held to strict scrutiny and regarded with suspicion. There absolutely cannot be a sacred cow in government business.

 

[Scotsman69]

Why does this poll not allow me to register as a socialist? I know it's old-fashioned to some, but there are a lot of us around, including plenty in the younger generation. Sorry, can't fill it in.

 

[ZRT]

Why does this poll not allow me to register as a socialist? I know it's old-fashioned to some, but there are a lot of us around, including plenty in the younger generation. Sorry, can't fill it in.

No true Scotsman mixes socialism with his politics.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

[Homburg]

Have you looked at THEIR numbers lately?

I guess they wanted someone who they knew could put them out of their misery fastest?

True, if you need something slaughtered, call a butcher.

And I'll comment later on education. It's an issue I'm close to, for probably obvious reasons.

 

[Scotsman69]

ZRT, you appear not to understand that Scotland has a socialist culture, though alas, until we're independent (give that 5 years), we won't have a socialist government.

 

[jockdom]

No true Scotsman mixes socialism with his politics.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

The Labour movement was born in Scotland althought the current "new" Labour government has little to do with its working class roots being to busy sucking up to big corporations and other parasites. But judging by what I see on FOX or CNN the american public have little grasp of what socialism is, if they think Obama is a Socialist.

 

[DVS]

...Oh Toyota also makes excellent cars, I just haven't owned a car for years and years. Ahm a truck gal! The Camry is a good model. Nowadays you should be able to pick up a used model for cheap. Are they still putting out the "Lemon Aid" books? I know those used to be a good resource for finding out which cars, models and years were most reliable.

My last truck was a Ford. Helluva vehicle.

Stupidest car on the planet? PT Cruiser. Honestly, WTF?

If someone is looking for a used car, Consumer Reports is a nice magazine to subscribe to. Not only do you benefit from their testing of the different washers and dryers, TVs, toasters and camcorders, etc., but every year they publish a paper bound book of the best products to buy, if you want to have the least amount of trouble with them.

All of their testing and such is compiled and that data, added to what the real market gives them, this book is great, if you are shopping for something of value.

Not only do they tell you the best HD TV or DVD recorder for the money as well as many other items a consumer would want to purchase, their section on used cars is quite nice. They list most brands and models, going back at least 5 years, showing how they held up in several different areas.

Off the top of my head I can only think of a few...
body integrity, engine and transmission, electrical repairs, brake repairs, to list just a few. Then, these areas are all listed in a scale, to show you worst, average and best in repair history.

To have this knowledge with you, when shopping for a used car, it takes a great load off of your shoulders, when you don't know anything except that it "looks nice" on the lot.

A subscription will get you one of these books every year. I think you can possibly purchase the book by itself for about $10 in a book store, but not sure. You might check their web site ConsumerReports.org, their used car section, which I've linked here. Of course, they want you to subscribe for the best info, but even the freebee info is helpful.

If you have the available cash, I personally think the subscription is worth the money, because of the product info you get. We all purchase things and knowing what's the best buy for your money is always nice to know, before you put your money into it. They are totally non-profit, so they aren't subsidized by anybody.

OK, I'll get off of my soapbox, now.

 

[graceanne]

If someone is looking for a used car, Consumer Reports is a nice magazine to subscribe to. Not only do you benefit from their testing of the different washers and dryers, TVs, toasters and camcorders, etc., but every year they publish a paper bound book of the best products to buy, if you want to have the least amount of trouble with them.

All of their testing and such is compiled and that data, added to what the real market gives them, this book is great, if you are shopping for something of value.

Not only do they tell you the best HD TV or DVD recorder for the money as well as many other items a consumer would want to purchase, their section on used cars is quite nice. They list most brands and models, going back at least 5 years, showing how they held up in several different areas.

Off the top of my head I can only think of a few...
body integrity, engine and transmission, electrical repairs, brake repairs, to list just a few. Then, these areas are all listed in a scale, to show you worst, average and best in repair history.

To have this knowledge with you, when shopping for a used car, it takes a great load off of your shoulders, when you don't know anything except that it "looks nice" on the lot.

A subscription will get you one of these books every year. I think you can possibly purchase the book by itself for about $10 in a book store, but not sure. You might check their web site ConsumerReports.org, their used car section, which I've linked here. Of course, they want you to subscribe for the best info, but even the freebee info is helpful.

If you have the available cash, I personally think the subscription is worth the money, because of the product info you get. We all purchase things and knowing what's the best buy for your money is always nice to know, before you put your money into it. They are totally non-profit, so they aren't subsidized by anybody.

OK, I'll get off of my soapbox, now.

I wonder if the library keeps this magazine.

I just can't see subscribing to a magazine just cause I want to buy a car. After you buy the car you're still stuck with the magazine coming routinely.

 

[intothewoods]

I wonder if the library keeps this magazine.

I just can't see subscribing to a magazine just cause I want to buy a car. After you buy the car you're still stuck with the magazine coming routinely.

It's pretty good for product comparisons, but you can get the basic stuff for free on their website. I typically use CR as a starting point and then read other reviews too.

 

[DVS]

I wonder if the library keeps this magazine.

I just can't see subscribing to a magazine just cause I want to buy a car. After you buy the car you're still stuck with the magazine coming routinely.

A subscription is only about $18 a year, and you get all that cool product info, not just for cars.

I don't know about the library, but if someone frequents their periodicals section, it might be worth a look. You just never know what the library has, unless you go inside.

But, I've been a subscriber for years and years. Not all products are created equally, and CR gives you the heads up, when brands are problematic. I have TERRIBLE luck and if I don't have that extra help in knowing which brands to avoid, I'm sure I'm going to buy the one I shouldn't. That kind of crap follows me around like a shadow.

Shit, talk about terrible luck? When I'm lost, driving in an unknown area and deciding which way I should turn to get me back to an area I know...I'll always turn the wrong way...it never fails. I wish I could afford a GPS. I hear they are made for people like me.

Oh, Consumer Reports tells you which is the best GPS to buy, too.

 

[Keroin]

Why does this poll not allow me to register as a socialist? I know it's old-fashioned to some, but there are a lot of us around, including plenty in the younger generation. Sorry, can't fill it in.

Because this thread is a dictatorship. *Claps hands and demands a Shirley Temple with two maraschino cherries* But I am a benevolent dictator and I shall allow you to call yourself a socialist so long as you do not stir up the rabble. *Adjusts epaulets* Go now, before I have your family thrown in jail.

I don't know about the library, but if someone frequents their periodicals section, it might be worth a look. You just never know what the library has, unless you go inside.

Sigh, how I miss having a library. Aren't they great? So much free knowledge!

 

[Scotsman69]

.....he shudders before the mighty Keroin. Only because she respects libraries.

The only good thing Andrew Carnegie did was fund them, in Scotland at least. And look what it's landed you with - a wee nation of big strong socialists.

Then he recalls his socialist principles, emerges proud and erect. And tells her loud and clear:

No fucking chance lassie, that you could throw any of us in jail. We're socialists and fighters, my big strong bairns and I.

We don't try to stir rabble. We energise thinking folk. And we will win. It may take a wee while, we know that. But justice and equity always win in the end.

You know that from all these daft Hollywood movies.

 

[caela]

It is when you are coming sobbing to them going Dad I need a loan.

So agree with this!!! lol

 

[Keroin]

.....he shudders before the mighty Keroin. Only because she respects libraries.

The only good thing Andrew Carnegie did was fund them, in Scotland at least. And look what it's landed you with - a wee nation of big strong socialists.

Then he recalls his socialist principles, emerges proud and erect. And tells her loud and clear:

No fucking chance lassie, that you could throw any of us in jail. We're socialists and fighters, my big strong bairns and I.

We don't try to stir rabble. We energise thinking folk. And we will win. It may take a wee while, we know that. But justice and equity always win in the end.

You know that from all these daft Hollywood movies.

Dear Diary,

Despite his endearing use of the word "wee", I have removed Scotsman69 from my Xmas card list and will not be sending him his allotment of mangoes.This is not because he is a socialist or because he is a Scotsman, though they do have much to apologize for with the bagpipes and all that. No, this is because he used the word "bairns" and I have no idea what it means but I suspect it is some kind of threat.

Pity.

K

 

[caela]

Going to jump in on the education front here because it is quickly becoming an issue that is meaning more and more to me as I watch my daughter grow. I won't have to actually worry about it in a concrete way (as in for HER education) for a few years yet but it only makes good sense to start paying attention early.

Our current system seems to have a number of problems and while all the politicians give it lip service in an election year, it seems like all they want to do is toss a band-aid on it, not actually dig in and fix what's broken. That is, of course, on them.

With all the honest issues that school have however there is one problem I see a lot of that gov't can't really do anything about...parental apathy. So many parents today think it is entirely the school's job to teach their children and they completely dump all the responsibility for their children's knowledge onto teacher's shoulder. Hell I'll be 30 in a few months and this was a trend even when I was in high school. Parent's come home, ask if the kids did their homework and simply drop it. They don't actually check to see if the homework is done, or put in the effort to understand what it is their child is actually working on...much less sit down and help with it.

Some of this has to do with the shape of our society. We have a lot more single parent households (like mine) and households where both parents have to work just to make ends meet. It makes it hard to come home and find time to fix dinner, spend family time doing something that everyone likes, find time to relax yourself, AND do the kids homework. A lot of parents are simply overwhelmed and their children's educations suffer for it.

This is something that really is a complicated, and multi-faceted problem and simply throwing more money at it isn't going to fix it...but it might apply a few more band-aids.

 

[caela]

Dear Diary,

Despite his endearing use of the word "wee", I have removed Scotsman69 from my Xmas card list and will not be sending him his allotment of mangoes.This is not because he is a socialist or because he is a Scotsman, though they do have much to apologize for with the bagpipes and all that. No, this is because he used the word "bairns" and I have no idea what it means but I suspect it is some kind of threat.

Pity.

K

LMAO @ this post.

"Bairns" are children and you have to give Scotsmen some credit for being confident enough to walk around wearing skirts! Maybe you could send him one mango instead of a whole crate.

You can call it a kilt all you want...that's just another name for a type of skirt that is socially acceptable to be worn by men.

 

[Netzach]

Our current system seems to have a number of problems and while all the politicians give it lip service in an election year, it seems like all they want to do is toss a band-aid on it, not actually dig in and fix what's broken. That is, of course, on them.

With all the honest issues that school have however there is one problem I see a lot of that gov't can't really do anything about...parental apathy. So many parents today think it is entirely the school's job to teach their children and they completely dump all the responsibility for their children's knowledge onto teacher's shoulder. Hell I'll be 30 in a few months and this was a trend even when I was in high school. Parent's come home, ask if the kids did their homework and simply drop it. They don't actually check to see if the homework is done, or put in the effort to understand what it is their child is actually working on...much less sit down and help with it.

I agree here. I remember the strong suspicion that there would be physical violence against my person, even if that weren't actually the case or were largely exaggerated in my mind, if my grades were crappy in anything other than math, which no amount of drama light beatings or tutoring seemed to help.

I don't know anyone else raised like this in my immediate social circle except for a couple of asian and latino first-gens.

And hey, with a little devious creativity and attention you can make it totally not worth the effort to screw up, even without beatings. I would have traded a lot of the psy warfare my mother can do for a good whack.

One thing that would help is return to the expectation of a normal workweek. The moment you take a salary, no matter how small, you are now out from under any kind of labor law and your employer is not even obligated to let you sleep. There's a lot of white collar sweatshop schedules out there.

 

[Homburg]

Dear Diary,

Despite his endearing use of the word "wee", I have removed Scotsman69 from my Xmas card list and will not be sending him his allotment of mangoes.This is not because he is a socialist or because he is a Scotsman, though they do have much to apologize for with the bagpipes and all that. No, this is because he used the word "bairns" and I have no idea what it means but I suspect it is some kind of threat.

Pity.

K

bairn = baby, small child, oyster

I am probably fucking with you on at least one, if not two, of those. Pick your poison.

And malign not the noble bagpipe. It is a fine, fine instrument of demeanor both raucous and fair, and no finer instrument of martial intent has ever been created.

I suggest Battlefield Band, by the way. Mike is a fantastic piper, and somehow manages to not dominate the songs. It's good stuff. He can't tell a joke to save his life though.

 

[satindesire]

I don't really know how to classify myself. I think I'm right of center, I call myself a Republican, but I also think that people should be able to get married freely whether gay or straight and I know that's not a popular way of thinking in the Right, for some odd reason.

I also think college should be free. But I don't know if that's really a right/left issue.

 

[Netzach]

I don't really know how to classify myself. I think I'm right of center, I call myself a Republican, but I also think that people should be able to get married freely whether gay or straight and I know that's not a popular way of thinking in the Right, for some odd reason.

I also think college should be free. But I don't know if that's really a right/left issue.

Since college is now the equivalent of HS, and you used to be able to get a reasonably good job with an HS diploma that would feed and clothe you and in which you could move up without being some kind of lotto-winning wunderkind of luck, I think either it should be free or HS needs to function that way again.

 

[satindesire]

Since college is now the equivalent of HS, and you used to be able to get a reasonably good job with an HS diploma that would feed and clothe you and in which you could move up without being some kind of lotto-winning wunderkind of luck, I think either it should be free or HS needs to function that way again.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks college should be free. I felt like some kind of weird freak for thinking that charging people for education that's NECESSARY these days is ridiculous.

 

[Netzach]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks college should be free. I felt like some kind of weird freak for thinking that charging people for education that's NECESSARY these days is ridiculous.

Maybe not every single institution, but definitely your basic decent state school University of whatever.