How mandatory is a decent plot to you when writing erotica?...

[Sensualist2]

Fascinating thread

I have really enjoyed reading this discussion. For me, as you will see if you read my stories, there has to be character development and plot along with what I hope is hot sex.

It's what I expect on this site in general. And with a few notable exceptions, it's what I find.

 

[Nameless_Rose]

Sometimes all I'll want is a sex scene, but even then I need it to have some basic plot. It's kind of disconcerting in my opinion for a reader to be plunged straight into a scene without some kind of cursory introduction. Most of the time, I prefer my erotica to have plot and fully-fleshed characters because even though you have to wait awhile for the story to get to the sex, when it does get there the encounters are more realistic and exciting.

 

[njailarhee]

I really don't see the point of reading anything erotica or not that doesn't have a plot.

 

[rydia57]

I write erotica too, tho porn seems to just... get it over with, I like a plot with a buildup. Even RL doesn't "just get to the point! You gotta have some fun getting there! so the story seems more like RL therefore allowing me to visualize everything happening as I read and getting me turned on deeper. Yeah, I think a good plot is always better.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

...or is direct, to-the-point, arousingly constructed detail more important to you much of the time?

Personally when I search for erotica, I'm looking for something to get myself off to (surprise surprise), and often when I find myself in this mood, any boring pre-erotic plot annoys me - I want to get straight to the juicy bits; not necessarily hard sex, but simply sexually arousing situations that you know may lead on to something more.

I suppose I'm curious as to how many others are like this? Sorry it's a slightly vague question.



x

Guess it depends on what you're reading for. If I wanted just to get off with erotica? It would be straight to Penthouse Letters or something for me. Just like porn... if I want to get off, I don't need no stinkin ACTING in my porn, thankyouverymuch!

But mostly I read, when I DO read, for story. And when I watch, I watch for the same thing. A good story. Take me away. Transport me. Tickle my imagination.

 

[sr71plt]

You can have it both ways, Whisperly and Selena. A story can open in a sex scene and then fold from there into a developing plot that leads to yet another sex scene.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

You can have it both ways, Whisperly and Selena. A story can open in a sex scene and then fold from there into a developing plot that leads to yet another sex scene.

oh, yeah, there's no reason you can't have REALLY HOT sex in a story that actually has a plot... definitely!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The illustrations were woodcuts, executed with that crude haste to see the finished product that marks the amateur. True pornography is given us by vastly patient professionals.

Thomas Pynchon

 

[simplyme]

I TRY to do both. Whether or not I actually accomplish that attempt or not is up to whomever reads what I put up here.

I don't try to get too flowery with the descriptions, a dick is a dick a pussy is a pussy, I'm not going to try and come up with a huge list of descriptors when simple straight to the point word usage works best, (my opinion of course).

Most of what I put up here involves acts I have NO interest in ever experiencing but I write them because thats the way the story come to me. What I read on here, the majority of the time, also involves a lot of things I have no intention of ever experiencing so 'porn' or 'erotica' doesn't matter to me BUT I do like plot in the stories, even if the story is a simple one involving a guy with his "slightly" above normal size 10' dick as he puts it in whatever orafice he can find on the other nearly impossibly perfect person.

I've read some of the "Best" stories on here and just didn't care for them, while at the same time found some stories that didn't seem to have much in the way of readers or technique and just enjoyed the hell out of them.

So in my somewhat meandering way here I'm trying to say that a story needs 'something' to hold it together but I don't think you should try to write something the story isn't.

If the story is about 2 (or more) people (or whatever) just fucking their brains out. So be it.

If the story is about the 2 (or more) people (or whatever) involved in the fucking. So be it.

 

[parkk84]

...or is direct, to-the-point, arousingly constructed detail more important to you much of the time?

Personally when I search for erotica, I'm looking for something to get myself off to (surprise surprise), and often when I find myself in this mood, any boring pre-erotic plot annoys me - I want to get straight to the juicy bits; not necessarily hard sex, but simply sexually arousing situations that you know may lead on to something more.

I suppose I'm curious as to how many others are like this? Sorry it's a slightly vague question.



x

It's 99% of the story for me. Frankly, the nuts and bolts gets to be boring after a while. An interesting premise with interesting characters, crackling with eroticism, is what interests me most.

 

[EricCalder]

I have no problem at all reading a story which is just an extended sex scene. I like doing that.

In terms of what I write, I have found that writing stories with more detailed plots and characters is much more engaging and interesting for me. I find it much more challenging and the result is therefore more satisfying.

As to whether these are any good, well, you tell me. But, I'm having fun.

 

[CorsetLvr]

I have no problem at all reading a story which is just an extended sex scene. I like doing that.

In terms of what I write, I have found that writing stories with more detailed plots and characters is much more engaging and interesting for me. I find it much more challenging and the result is therefore more satisfying.

As to whether these are any good, well, you tell me. But, I'm having fun.

Eric, I hate to categorize, but I think what you are describing, at least to my way of thinking, is the difference between porn and erotica. I write what I like to think of as erotica, with character development and a plot. Porn to me is your basic "Tab A in Slot B" stroke story with no real intent for any sort of literary value other than arousing the reader. I think of erotica as arousing the mind and body. Obviously there is a balance between the two that is necessary and I see many writers that have a tendency to slide to either end of the spectrum in that regard. I've read some stories where the sex scenes were written almost as if they were an after thought. On the other extreme, I have seen some where the writer seems to rush through character development and the set up of the plot to get to the sex scene. I have been giving this a lot of thought lately as I work on my latest story that contains several Lit formatted pages before we get to the first sex scene. It's not that the set up is entirely sexless, but rather builds in erotic tension up to the sexual activity. I'm certain that I will lose a lot of readers before they get to what they are looking for, or they will use the miracle of internet technology to just skip ahead.

Unfortunately, I feel that a majority of Lit readers are far more drawn to the porn variety. Due to this, my style of writing is almost in a niche type category. Certainly I have my fair share of fans, but I think most are looking for more than just run of the mill stroke material. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that my style of writing will never be all things to all people and resigned myself to writing for the kind of reader that is looking for what I have to offer.

 

[CorsetLvr]

Realism?

I'd like to make one more point, as a reader this time, about stories in general. I posted something about this a while back and seemed to be shouted down, but I'll take another stab at it in the hope that some writer will at least take this into consideration.

As a reader, I am far more attracted to realism than pure fantasy. It's sometimes pretty obvious that a writer is just putting images to whatever personal fantasy seems to turn their own crank. First off, the writer needs to consider the fact that his/her fantasy is only going to appeal to a very limited audience of readers that share their fantasy or something similar. The second issue, in my mind is what I call "suspension of disbelief." In other words, am I able to shut down my mind to the point that I can overlook however unlikely the scenario may be and still enjoy the story. Guys, I know that you may fantasize about armies of dripping wet, teenage sluts whose entire existence is focused on their need to feel your middle-aged "throbbing manhood" buried in their virgin pussies. But seriously, is this a realistic story? I'm sure it has some appeal to other make readers with similar fantasies, but for someone like me, its an automatic reflex to vote with the back button.

My example may be a little extreme, although that kind of story certainly exists, but I see similar examples, if not as extreme, often in stories on Lit. I often find myself wondering if a writer ever takes a second to ask him/herself, "is this realistic, would this character really do or say that?" This is particularly true with how many male writers address female sexuality and desire. I'm often left with the impression that female character are reay to turn into total sluts for the simple reason that they lack the opportunity to do so until the writer's hero comes into their life. Of course, the fact that the writer puts a lot of his perceived alter ego into that character is also pretty apparent, go figure.

I was previously shouted down on this topic with multiple comments of "its just a fantasy, deal with it." My point on that point is this, most writers live in a world of fantasy. Even my own writing, while largely based on real life experiences, is still heavily embellished with imagination and I guess what you could call fantasy. Does a fantasy based story have to be unrealistic? I say no. In some cases I feel that some writers are just lazy in that regard. Let's just skip over the part on how I get the "nubile, coed, oral fixated, bisexual cheerleaders" in bed, and get to the sex scene.

OK, I got that rant out of my system. I'm done. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. I might have reached a few writers with this, I hope. I have a feeling that many will just shrug it off and continue with business as usual. Unfortunately, I doubt that many of the writers that I am referring to care enough about the quality of their writing to spend the time in a forum like this to learn something and share their ideas.

 

[Lobo_8]

The few stories I have written have been from my pov involving my SO. As she is the only one who reads them there is no need for me to include complex characters as we are the characters. I would consider it porn, but were I to post a story on lit I would feel the need to make the characters come alive rather than having 2 random people doing something.

Occasionally I like reading porn, but erotica is what I enjoy more often than not. My favourite author is Madam_Noe and all of her stories are well thought out with complex character development.

-Burns

 

[simplyme]

I'd like to make one more point, as a reader this time, about stories in general. I posted something about this a while back and seemed to be shouted down, but I'll take another stab at it in the hope that some writer will at least take this into consideration.

As a reader, I am far more attracted to realism than pure fantasy. It's sometimes pretty obvious that a writer is just putting images to whatever personal fantasy seems to turn their own crank. First off, the writer needs to consider the fact that his/her fantasy is only going to appeal to a very limited audience of readers that share their fantasy or something similar. The second issue, in my mind is what I call "suspension of disbelief." In other words, am I able to shut down my mind to the point that I can overlook however unlikely the scenario may be and still enjoy the story. Guys, I know that you may fantasize about armies of dripping wet, teenage sluts whose entire existence is focused on their need to feel your middle-aged "throbbing manhood" buried in their virgin pussies. But seriously, is this a realistic story? I'm sure it has some appeal to other make readers with similar fantasies, but for someone like me, its an automatic reflex to vote with the back button.

My example may be a little extreme, although that kind of story certainly exists, but I see similar examples, if not as extreme, often in stories on Lit. I often find myself wondering if a writer ever takes a second to ask him/herself, "is this realistic, would this character really do or say that?" This is particularly true with how many male writers address female sexuality and desire. I'm often left with the impression that female character are reay to turn into total sluts for the simple reason that they lack the opportunity to do so until the writer's hero comes into their life. Of course, the fact that the writer puts a lot of his perceived alter ego into that character is also pretty apparent, go figure.

I was previously shouted down on this topic with multiple comments of "its just a fantasy, deal with it." My point on that point is this, most writers live in a world of fantasy. Even my own writing, while largely based on real life experiences, is still heavily embellished with imagination and I guess what you could call fantasy. Does a fantasy based story have to be unrealistic? I say no. In some cases I feel that some writers are just lazy in that regard. Let's just skip over the part on how I get the "nubile, coed, oral fixated, bisexual cheerleaders" in bed, and get to the sex scene.

OK, I got that rant out of my system. I'm done. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. I might have reached a few writers with this, I hope. I have a feeling that many will just shrug it off and continue with business as usual. Unfortunately, I doubt that many of the writers that I am referring to care enough about the quality of their writing to spend the time in a forum like this to learn something and share their ideas.

I think you make a lot of sense in the post. Rant or no.

I know for a fact that my problem in what I've been putting up here, for a large part, is I don't take it very serious. If I wrote in my 'normal voice' I'd have pages of nothing but exposition and character development with NO sex what so ever. When the sex would come it wouldn't be so much about the sex as it would about the characters doing the nasty things to each other. I'm trying to find some happy medium and I'm slowly getting there I think. My poems are closer to what I enjoy writing than my stories, with the exception of a couple. (style wise)

As to what you mean about the 'wish fullfilment' aspects of the stories.. I TRY to be honest, yep I'd love to be able to walk down a beach and have mobs of nubile young 'Girls Gone Wild' panting for me, I know it's never going to be that way but I still try to put the fantasy in but make it hopefully beliveble in that the reader can go.."It could happen. Maybe."

Not that I have any stories up yet with these elements in them. I hope that the handful I have up are believable or at least not complete bullshit that makes you go.."Uhh ok."

And hey it's cool to rant every once in a while, use to talk about books on another site and I ranted about the 7th Harry Potter book for weeks in how it's one of, if not, the single worst book I've read (or in this case never finished due to the sucktitude of it).

Yes, I DO speak nerd fluently.

 

[Storyfeller]

I believe I may be right in saying that, with regard to this issue, many people confuse 'plot' with what they actually mean: verisimilitude.

It has to be believable.

Without this, all you have is cheap porn, digestible only by the brain dead of this world.

 

[lance gt]

I agree, no matter if it's straight up sex or a character induced fantasy, the plot has to be believeable. Albeit if the writing is poor, nothing can make it more readable than a story that captures my attention about the events that transpire. It all comes down to the details that describe the event, whether it's just sex or several paragraphs of character development and then sex, it has to be a believable plot

 

[CorsetLvr]

I agree, no matter if it's straight up sex or a character induced fantasy, the plot has to be believeable. Albeit if the writing is poor, nothing can make it more readable than a story that captures my attention about the events that transpire. It all comes down to the details that describe the event, whether it's just sex or several paragraphs of character development and then sex, it has to be a believable plot

Lance,

I was going to make some comparison to the lack or presence of a plot in a story and the scores that the story recieve. Then I realized that, at least from a statistical basis, is a pretty ludicrous comparison. Too few readers actually vote for stories to make that comparison. A lot of the views that we see on stories are probably followed by the hitting of a back button. That's probably especially true on some of my own marathon writing efforts. Most readers aren't looking for the erotic version of the Pulitzer Prize. Their enjoyment of a story is measured by its "cum quotient" and not some contrived voting system. A large part of what I call the cum quotient is a measure of how fast the story helps the reader get off. In the case of most of my stories, I'm sure I greatly disappoint a lot of readers if they have to slog through several pages of actual story before they get to the part they are looking for as an aid in reaching their own "happy ending."

I'm sure that we, as writers, have a very different view point, at least to some degree, than a majority of our readers. We look for different things in a story than just simply being a masturbatory tool. OK, at least some writers do, at least the ones that take their writing seriously. Those writers are more likely to be participating in this discussion in the first place, IMHO. So, a forum thread like this may simply be a case of "preaching to the choir." In other words, we're all just telling each other what we want to hear. It took me a while, but I learned to ignore the response, or more likely the lack of response, that I get from a lot of readers. My stories are definitely not for everyone and as I said earlier, I fill a small niche. That is magnified by the fact that I seem to be repeatedly drawn to similar themes in my stories. If a reader is not interested in those themes they are probably never going to be a fan of my stories, especially if they are looking for "jerk or jill-off material."

BTW Lance, I enjoy your stories. Mark me up as a fan.

 

[lance gt]

I am honoured Corset. I am just a hack trying to get a feel for writing. I'll get there soon. I do thank you for the vote of support.

 

[BrazenFellow]

CorsetLvr: I'd have to agree with your so-called rant's key points. Realism is what makes it erotic, in my world - and I'm well aware I'm part of a minority in that sense. There's only so many ways to describe the nubile virgin taking that 'throbbing shaft'; even fewer when you consider that she always feels that first stab of pain and then really starts to enjoy it moments later. Yes, I'm well aware that this is fantasy and not a repository of "after action reports" like The First Time.com, but I find that those "AARs" are even more bullshitty than the average Literotica story. I'm sure my girlfriend would like to know where these guys losing their virginity who can last for five hours are. Until she met me she was unaware that sex lasted longer than fifteen seconds. Was also unaware of her G-spot, but that's Christian repression for you.

Actually, shit, there's a good story in and of itself. Relatively inexperienced girl meets more-experienced-but-by-no-means-a-stallion boy. Education happens with believable slightly-awkward dialogue. Some meat to that and fits the concept of realism. But I digress.

I'd say there are two types of literary erotica. You've got your standard erotica, which (usually) has a plot, proper grammar, all the hallmarks of good writing and is usually good writing. Then you've got what I'm going to euphemistically call - to borrow a turn of phrase from you - "CQ" stories. These are very much the equivalent to professionally made video porn.

lance gt: Again I'd have to agree with Corset, for someone "just trying to get a feel for writing" you're doing quite well.

 

[neighborboy]

The nuts and bolts of sex get pretty boring after being described for the upteenth time. If I am only interested in people fucking, I'll look for porn. But if I am also interested in the psychological aspects of sex, the teasing, the power games, and the emotions, a story is far better than porn. Nicely described sex is nice, but it is never enough to hold my interest.

 

[lance gt]

Thank you Brazen, I truly appreciate your praise. Writing sex stories is a bit like trying to drive blind. You have a good idea of the road your on when you first took a look at it, but sometimes it has a turn you didn't remeber being there and you crash and burn.
And yes, finding the right sex story to fit the mood your in at the time can be difficult. Maybe they should sub-divide the sections so people know which is which. Quick wank or a long stroking adventure.

 

[Iftheshoefits]

Depends on the story. I have read some stories that just dove right into it that were good. But for the most part I prefer 80% plot/20% raunch. To me the things that lead up to the sex, the sexual tension that's created, is often just as hot, and in many cases, hotter than the main event. If the charecters have been developed and I feel more like I know them then it makes the fireworks that much more spectacular. Just my 2 cents.

 

[lance gt]

Total agreement here Shoe. Love the set up as much as I love foreplay and the sex is sex, just has to be great sex. Lance

 

[SixtyMinuteMan]

The characters and plot are so much of the fun for me when I write that I have about twenty stories where I've written everything but the sex. When I'm really feeling both characters, the story just writes itself and before I know it I'm to the point where I need to find a new and steamy version of "tab A into slot B."

If I had the chops, I'd write much higher-concept plots.

The only time writing feels like work is when I'm writing someone else's fantasy, which is a fairly large percentage of the time. I still enjoy it, but I'm thinking of the plot first, trying to get us up to the sex in a believable way, and the dialog and characterization doesn't always flow so well.