How mandatory is a decent plot to you when writing erotica?...

[lance gt]

The only time writing feels like work is when I'm writing someone else's fantasy, which is a fairly large percentage of the time. I still enjoy it, but I'm thinking of the plot first, trying to get us up to the sex in a believable way, and the dialog and characterization doesn't always flow so well.[/QUOTE]

That was a problem I faced Sixty in a series called I Spy. I had written two chapters and received comments from readers requesting I use dialogue in the next one. I did and received a poorer rating. As of today, a reader has gone to it and started a comment war on how disappointed he was that I did that. It only shows me from that, that writing the story is my business only, and readers are just supposed to read and criticize what I've done. I'll never change a story line again to accomodate readers requests. Like it or lump it, it's my story and will accept my own failures or successes. Lance

 

[SixtyMinuteMan]

Yeah, I'm too new to have encountered that problem yet. I don't know how or even if I'll respond to reader comments, except in the sense of choosing which chapter to finish next.

It's probably self-indulgent, but I'll refer to my posted work here. "Commander Rainey" is the kind of story I turn out when I write what I feel like. I sat down with the characters in mind and no more thought for the plot then that they end up in bed. The conversation between them was fun and helped solidify their characters, but I didn't have a clear destination until the exchange in the restaurant where they talked about her attitude toward hearing the word 'no'. After that I had her cold, and she really determined the rest of the story. And it was a lot of fun to write, I was just following them.

The alternative writing experience for me is stories like "Wedding Party". I like the story and it was fun to write, but I sat down with a destination in mind- Marie wanted me to take an encounter from our circle of sex-positive friends and turn it into a story that happened "in the wild". So I wasn't getting to know the characters and seeing where they took me, I was writing backstory to a sexual encounter, writing to explain how we got from A to B. Very different experience, and I think it shows.

 

[cyravance]

I think erotica without a plot is simply porn. It has it's place, but for me, plot is essential. Plot enhances the sex when you finally get to it, plain porn is like just tossing a steak on the grill...it's good and filling, but soooo much better after a bit of marinade, some sliced onions and portabello mushrooms, a nice red wine sauce...

 

[Pol_]

erotica vs porn

I like stories with good plots. If I want a quick release I don't read. I much rather other forms of porn which are more to-the-point (pictures, videos). Then again, I would be curious to see a good porn movie with a good plot. Wonder what that would give...

 

[MiriamL]

A common novice error is to try to describe a character completely when they're first encountered, which is completely unnatural and contrary to the way one gets to know someone in real life. IRL, people learn about each other in very small doses that eventually accrete into a (more) complete picture.

Very well said Harold...and actually, I'd rather read a detailed description of the environment than the characters. I like to imagine them my way.

Lord knows many times Ive stopped reading a story because a woman in her 40s oddly resembles the 24 year old porn star archetype.

 

[Mandala40]

I like stuff that's well crafted. I like character driven, interesting stories.

I have to say that if in the first paragraph I'm being informed of someone's cup size, I'm out.

The same goes for penis size.

A story that recounts little more than naked bodies having sex does not interest me. I want to like the characters, and I want to believe in what is happening.

In his Poetics Aristotle said a good plot should combine inevitability with surprise. In other words, the events should follow each other plausibly, but when you start reading, you should not know how things are going to end.

 

[Matadore]

The same goes for penis size.

A story that recounts little more than naked bodies having sex does not interest me. I want to like the characters, and I want to believe in what is happening.

In his Poetics Aristotle said a good plot should combine inevitability with surprise. In other words, the events should follow each other plausibly, but when you start reading, you should not know how things are going to end.

I like to respect everyone's opinion to the extent that they apply it to themselves and not to me or others. Writing prose fiction with erotic content is (to me) not much different than similar prose fiction without erotic content. good is good; poor is poor; and bad...

If any other media form could present the same information as well, that other media probably could present it better. For me, presentation is everything. The benefit of prose (especially in short story form) is that condensation required to give your reader the minimum information required to ignite his imagination. As with any intensely active physical enjoyment, consuming this genera demands of the participant work, but to extent the reward exceeds the effort, the joy is the motivation.

As much as the reader can be guided to bring to the experience, the more she will potentially enjoy being engaged in the creative process with the writer. Any line, phrase, letter that is a part of the presentation is either necessary to maximize the creativity of the reader or it becomes a distraction to the process and dilutes the wholeness of the product for the reader.

A description of an act of sex is not much difference than the description of any rather complex, quick progressive act that also depends on emotion, intuition, reflexes, particular sensory stimulation, coordination between individuals striving to attain a shared goal. Motives, concerns, focus, experience, condition, inner and outer environments, communication, reflexes, responses...all play to influence outcomes. Be the activity coitus, whitewater, horse racing, ballroom dancing, aerobatics, etc., the variables differ, but the description of the event depends upon how the reader perceives these variables as being of the characters, but vicariously realized through the filter of his/her own experiential background...not strictly from the writers.

Of course, I could be full of myself and not even on target as applied to other people be they writers, reader, critics, trolls, etc.

 

[truman5]

Difference Between Porn and Erotica

I wonder if there is a bright line distinction between porn and erotica. It seems to me that the difference may be only the quality of the writing. Both have the same goal, to arouse the reader but I see erotica as being better written, something that engages the brain instead of only the genitals.

 

[Matadore]

I wonder if there is a bright line distinction between porn and erotica. It seems to me that the difference may be only the quality of the writing. Both have the same goal, to arouse the reader but I see erotica as being better written, something that engages the brain instead of only the genitals.

Perhaps not, but excellent writing can still be porn and not be erotica. Also, there is some kernel of truth in the worn and tired observation that even giving the genitals their due, all of the action is really in the brain; ergo, it is the largest organ of sex in the body.

Your suggestion that both have have the same goal doesn't quite ring true for me. Perhaps, porn does prioritize the stoking of the libidinous fires of passion. Somehow it makes more sense to consider a multi-valued perspective and where more than one of several purposes undoubtedly exist in both, porn and erotica, it is the emphasis or importance of the various factors wherein lies the key difference.

 

[Bebeslut]

I'm much more interested in the development of the characters I have created. This sometimes leads to what you might call "boring," but it interests me. Some of my stories seem hardly to have any sex in them at all, but they do advance the stories of my characters, all of whom are highly sexual charalcters.

 

[falcon29]

come on!

This site is for sexual stories. "Erotica". Of course, you'll find everything from the "wham-bam" porn stuff to the long drawn out romantic types that try to be erotic, but are just needlessly long. They're all approved, and it's good that they are. I've written both the hard core and the more erotic (and more character based), but I prefer to read shorter -- not necessarily the throw down and screw stuff, but short pieces that have decent character development. It doesn't take page after page (or chapter after chapter) to do that; it can be done in a paragraph or two. And it doesn't have to include -- and, in my opinion, shouldn't include -- cock size or bra size. Please: when you finish a story, let it stand on its own. It doesn't need additional chapters unless it was set up that way from the start.

I shy away from multi-part tales that require repeated descriptions of physical prowess or measurements. If a writer ever says, "I bared my eight inch erection...", I click on the back button. It's not because I don't have eight inches, it's just because I don't think that's a necessary description for any story. If it's hard and reaches farther than a finger, I'm told it's long enough, according to my wife -- and she had enough experience before we met to know. According to my wife, too, it's the thickness, not the length that gets her off, anyway.

So: Erotica or porn. It's (almost) all good, depending on the mood of the moment. When I write, it's more about the story than the excitement. But I do get to the excitement after a bit.

 

[Storyfeller]

It is almost invariably the case that the least credible and uninspiring erotica, i.e. that which has the barest of plot and characterisation, has similarly the greatest proportion of poor grammar and spelling.

This is, I would have thought, unsurprising.

 

[Cold_Eyes]

Hmm, as I've read more of the stuff on Lit, I'm leaning more toward plot.

However, I have to qualify that. A lot of people here seem to consider plot to be an exposition dump at the beginning of the story. I don't think that qualifies as "porn with plot." To make an analogy, you know what's really fuckin' annoying? Fantasy novels where the first 200 pages are exposition about the geography and architecture of the setting. Information in any story should be on a need to know basis! Don't dump an encyclopedia's worth of facts on me, tell the damn story.

The same goes for erotica, porn, whatever. Make the reader care. Even if plot is very important to your story, you don't need to describe every detail of your characters and setting before the story starts. The narrative should always be present. This is something I've been trying to get closer to in my own writing.

Sometimes, it seems a bit difficult to find stories that can meet that middle ground between plots with expo dumps and completely plotless stories. That being said, a brief but well-written sex-scene can still be enjoyable.

 

[wildehafer]

Depends on the audience.

Look at porn movies. Some are just boy and girl going at each other and that equates to the written stroke piece. No character development, just action.

Then there's increasing degrees of story and character development. How that is achieved is the art of writing. The greater the skill in story telling the more enjoyable (and generally longer) the works tend to be because there is more than just the sex. It's about the people, their needs, hopes, fears etc.

Some people really like those.

So it's personal taste in the production and consumption. I won't write a stroke piece because it's not a challenge, so I write engaging story lines and the votes tend to support that effort. I'm still honing my skills in both the story and how it's told.

Weaving the facts, the people and the action throughout the story can be difficult, but with a little fore thought, a lot of effort and self criticism of the work you can come out with a half decent piece that people will enjoy.

 

[sr71plt]

The greater the skill in story telling the more enjoyable (and generally longer) the works tend to be because there is more than just the sex. It's about the people, their needs, hopes, fears etc.

"Sort of" generally only, because the better writer you are the less flab and more focused precision you put into the story as well. "More words" doesn't really equate to "better" even "generally," I don't think.

 

[driphoney]

"Sort of" generally only, because the better writer you are the less flab and more focused precision you put into the story as well. "More words" doesn't really equate to "better" even "generally," I don't think.

While you master it, I think, in regards to Lit, most short pieces are lacking in development, and the longer stories, while not always, often do give an attempt at more.

Precision is a great word, though, and all you said about more words not equaling better is very true, too.

 

[sr71plt]

While you master it, I think, in regards to Lit, most short pieces are lacking in development, and the longer stories, while not always, often do give an attempt at more.

Precision is a great word, though, and all you said about more words not equaling better is very true, too.

A good story, I think, entices the reader to fill in some blank spots for themselves (and not run off on tertiary tangents); it engages and holds them. It gives them space to personalize--and also to expand their imaginations concerning what the story could mean to them in its broader sense.

I'm never more irritated with a comment on Lit. stories when they say, essentially, "beautiful story, but too short." If it's a beautiful story, it's quite long enough--especially when it's a complete story, with dilemma, tension, and resolution (or purposeful lack of same), no matter what the wordage is.

I've noted elsewhere that competition stories are generally limited to 3,000 to 3,500 words (that's less than one Lit. page)--and some contests are for 1,000 words max. There's a lot of development a writer can do of her/his writing by striving to fit everything in limits such as these rather than writing as many words as they can in a story.

 

[driphoney]

A good story, I think, entices the reader to fill in some blank spots for themselves (and not run off on tertiary tangents); it engages and holds them. It gives them space to personalize--and also to expand their imaginations concerning what the story could mean to them in its broader sense.

I'm never more irritated with a comment on Lit. stories when they say, essentially, "beautiful story, but too short." If it's a beautiful story, it's quite long enough--especially when it's a complete story, with dilemma, tension, and resolution (or purposeful lack of same), no matter what the wordage is.

I've noted elsewhere that competition stories are generally limited to 3,000 to 3,500 words (that's less than one Lit. page)--and some contests are for 1,000 words max. There's a lot of development a writer can do of her/his writing by striving to fit everything in limits such as these rather than writing as many words as they can in a story.

Your first paragraph has me standing and cheering in the Amen Corner. I don't know how to do that, yet, but when I read a story that does that for me, I sit back breathless at their ability to do it. Every once in a while I'll come across a part in a story, usually character interaction containing dialogue, and I'm so overwhelmed by the emotion brought out in me by just a few written words and I wonder how they did that. I think it's as you say, they've allowed me to personalize and expand it. I know these characters.

That leads to my thoughts on your second paragraph. I always take comments to mean, "I'm so personally connected to this story and these characters, I don't want my relationship with them to end." I've felt that many times when finishing a book. I'm not quite ready to move on.

Your last point gives me something to think about. I don't really know how to tell a complete story in such a short telling, and part of why I have never written a contest story.

 

[Acal]

All good stories leave you wishing that they were longer, and I agree with earlier comments why is there a need to descirbe breast and cock sizes? Really not nessassary, it really turns me off when they talk about impossible sized breasts or beer can sized cocks things that aren't physically possible.

Big, long and large are descriptive enough as it is, just trust the reader to fill in the size for themself. I've only been writing about a year but i've learned a lot about how to craft erotic scenes without needing to be crass or vulgar. They've rated better and are much longer then the slam bam porno pieces.

 

[PerilEyes]

New writer here also. I've only been having my go at erotica for about a month not and I've been writing catfight stories for about 6 months now. In both topics, I can't bring myself to just get right into the "action" bits without any real setup. I always force myself to ask myself "who are these people and why should I care?" or "what are they like as people? what are their motives?". I don't know if any one else suffers from this either but I'm actually worse at writing the "action" bits than everything else in the story. I'm not bad at it by any means, but I like to think my forte is the buildup. That's why I hope no one ever skips over the plot driven bits just to get to the "meaty" sections.

 

[Acal]

Me too! Action is hard to write without it sounding clumsy and hard to follow, writing the sex, plot and emotional stuff is far easier then gritty action pieces.

 

[wildehafer]

That leads to my thoughts on your second paragraph. I always take comments to mean, "I'm so personally connected to this story and these characters, I don't want my relationship with them to end." I've felt that many times when finishing a book. I'm not quite ready to move on.

Yeah, the character in my sci-fi story was so hot I had to kill her off

It was kind of hard to do really, but then again is she really dead?

Time will tell. Even I'm eager to find out what happens and I'm writing the damn thing!

 

[driphoney]

All good stories leave you wishing that they were longer, and I agree with earlier comments why is there a need to descirbe breast and cock sizes? Really not nessassary, it really turns me off when they talk about impossible sized breasts or beer can sized cocks things that aren't physically possible.

Big, long and large are descriptive enough as it is, just trust the reader to fill in the size for themself. I've only been writing about a year but i've learned a lot about how to craft erotic scenes without needing to be crass or vulgar. They've rated better and are much longer then the slam bam porno pieces.

I tend to agree, but sometimes, without numeration or nutty description, it's nice to read that she's impressed with his huge cock!

New writer here also. I've only been having my go at erotica for about a month not and I've been writing catfight stories for about 6 months now. In both topics, I can't bring myself to just get right into the "action" bits without any real setup. I always force myself to ask myself "who are these people and why should I care?" or "what are they like as people? what are their motives?". I don't know if any one else suffers from this either but I'm actually worse at writing the "action" bits than everything else in the story. I'm not bad at it by any means, but I like to think my forte is the buildup. That's why I hope no one ever skips over the plot driven bits just to get to the "meaty" sections.

You can hope all you want . . . .

Yeah, the character in my sci-fi story was so hot I had to kill her off

It was kind of hard to do really, but then again is she really dead?

Time will tell. Even I'm eager to find out what happens and I'm writing the damn thing!

Damn. Why am I wasting time posting, posting, posting, when I could be reading glorious fiction?

I've got to learn to insert action and drama. My problem is when I manage to dream some up, I go, "Nah. That wouldn't really happen," and talk myself out of it. Well. No. It wouldn't happen, not in real life. That's why we love to read about it!

 

[wildehafer]

I've got to learn to insert action and drama. My problem is when I manage to dream some up, I go, "Nah. That wouldn't really happen," and talk myself out of it. Well. No. It wouldn't happen, not in real life. That's why we love to read about it!

Let it all out baby!

 

[PeteHulbert37]

I came to Literotica because I was seeking something different. Porn is very one dimensional and over time, I became a little numb to it. Sex for the purpose of sex all the time is kind of lame. Here, I can find a story. Something that offers a compelling plot and some very erotic imagery through word is very intriguing. I really like the stories found in Incest/Taboo. If it is wrong socially, then the story that gets the characters past the inhibition is what really gets me going. Those stories that are 5 paragraphs and 4 of them have erotic action are not much different than porn and quickly lose any perception of credibility as a story, even as a fictional story. Good topic, but I imagine it is one some of the long-standing members have seen before.