How representative is the Lit population?

[financebro]

I have met women in all colors of the rainbow as far as age, race, politics, and kinks.

 

[LMWM321]

And another thing... a significant subset of the "all the girls on lit are dudes" crowd seem to be operating on a rather misogynistic level. Namely, that women don't like 'X', wherever X is the thing the guys likes that the women in his life may not like, and therefore women who say they like X are dudes unless proven otherwise with pics, preferably nudes.

Gee, I hope you're not including me in the significant subset. Yikes.

I have expressed skepticism about some members truly being women NOT because I think women are incapable of being as kinky or as highly sexual as men, but rather because some of their posts veer so sharply into misogyny. That's the root of my doubt.

The challenge with Literotica is that there are serious discussions about human sexuality that are taking place along side other conversations that are meant to sexually excite people. And it's the latter where it's understandable that a person may want to pretend to be someone they are not - eg., a guy pretending to be a woman. But when participating in a serious conversation about sex, it's much better if people are honest. ...For example: If there's a discussion about the horror of women being sexually harassed in the workplace, you wouldn't want a guy who's pretending to be a woman chiming in. Especially if he's expressing views like, "What's the big deal? I'm a woman and I LOVE being sexually harassed!" That's the sort of disingenuous poster I'm referring to.

 

[liqueur]

Do you think the sexual appetite and interests, and the proportions of people that express these interests, are representative of the population at large? Or... is there a natural self selection to this community that draws in certain sexual interests?

I don't think there can be an either/or answer to this.

• Many people, maybe even most, who are hypersexual or generally kinky in their appetites are considerably restricted in their opportunities to talk about their desires, appetites, and experiences with people of like mind. People like that will naturally gravitate to sites like these. So to that extent, it's self-selecting
• Oh the other hand, the anonymity gives Everyman and Everywoman the opportunity to talk about what they think about, or even do, all the time, but are unable to talk about in their Everyday world.

So your question sort of indirectly implies two groups: “Is lit composed mostly of group A or group B?” But if it were possible to draw a Venn diagram of those two groups, I think the result would be kind of close to a circle. Or a serpent eating it's tail. Or something.

 

[lil_jenni]

Many people, maybe even most, who are hypersexual or generally kinky in their appetites are considerably restricted in their opportunities to talk about their desires, appetites, and experiences with people of like mind.

Yes, exactly this.

 

[lil_jenni]

Gee, I hope you're not including me in the significant subset. Yikes.

Nope. You don't seem angry at or disdainful of women, nor do you seem to think non-standard sexuality does not exist for women. So, again, nope.

 

[lil_jenni]

some of their posts veer so sharply into misogyny. That's the root of my doubt.

Oh, I know some real life women who are misogynists, at least from my point of view. But I understand what you mean.

Like I've said, I try to give posters the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes...

For example, in another thread, a female poster was questioning the proliferation of young (22ish year old) women on Lit. She said she had been on Lit at 22, and that she had been crazy back then, and single, young woman would have to be crazy to be on Lit at that age. I did not reply, but my thought was that I was on Lit at 22 (albeit not single), and it was to keep me from being crazy... but it's close to the same.

But what we're seeing lately is a bunch of younger "women" who are seeking older men or traditional men or married men... you know where this is going.

Hell, one such poster would end provocative comments with "tee hee". What the fuck? Is that a giggle? I mean, I can giggle over sexual things, but not that stereotypically, and a stereotype from a bygone age at that. Again, what the fuck?

But maybe it's my own bias. I've never been interested in older men or play acting girlish or things like that. I have a great relationship with my father, so I have no need of a father figure, but maybe other people do, and maybe it should not set me on edge when a 22 year old bounces in and announces she wants to explore her previously frustrated sexuality with older men, tee hee. But it does. It is all kinds of red flags.

 

[Susscrofa]

Thank you. Part of learning to live with how fucked up you are is learning how fucked up you are.

I think that because most fucked up people don't want to admit to themselves that they are fucked up, they try to project the traits that make them uncomfortable onto other people. So if someone has a sexual fetish that makes him/her uncomfortable, they often find comfort in telling themselves that almost everyone else harbors the same fetish and fantasy and just won't admit it.

Most people are quite comfortable talking about their sex lives and fantasies in public places, go to any bar and eavesdrop, and you'll hear people talking about their sexual conquests, who they want to screw, complaining that their wives or girlfriends don't like a favorite sex act, etc. The reason such people don't talk about fetishes and fantasies like cuckoldry, cross-dressing, or incest is that A. they probably don't harbor those fantasies and B. for the small subset who do, they recognize that they're a minority and would probably be shunned, ridiculed, or worse by their social circle. That's still a more honest take than going around thinking at many/most other people secretly share your fantasy and won't admit it just to feel better about yourself.

In my case, I know I'm strange (including in ways that have absolutely nothing to do with sex), and there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[EvaLane]

For example, in another thread, a female poster was questioning the proliferation of young (22ish year old) women on Lit. She said she had been on Lit at 22, and that she had been crazy back then, and single, young woman would have to be crazy to be on Lit at that age. I did not reply, but my thought was that I was on Lit at 22 (albeit not single), and it was to keep me from being crazy... but it's close to the same.

Helloooooo

I completely understand what you mean about trying to block out the crazy by using this place as an escape. It’s probably what I’m doing now, being back here, as a pretty, non-single, slightly saner woman than I was a decade ago.

It’s also funny because I was bouncing around and tee-hee’ing and “degrade me, Daddy!!!!” all I wanted back then but it was a different world on the Internet, that script hadn’t been passed around at that point.

and now… you’re right. They just don’t get it, at the end of the day, the people who pretend. Even if she really IS 22 and really DOES look like that, she’s doing it for an Amazon gift card a cheque and not because she’s really into it

My culture is NOT your OF costume!!!

We need to raise awareness, #BRINGNEWSLUTSTOLIT or something idk

 

[LMWM321]

But maybe it's my own bias. I've never been interested in older men or play acting girlish or things like that. I have a great relationship with my father, so I have no need of a father figure, but maybe other people do, and maybe it should not set me on edge when a 22 year old bounces in and announces she wants to explore her previously frustrated sexuality with older men, tee hee. But it does. It is all kinds of red flags.

You raise another interesting subject - this idea that most young women are sexually interested in much older men. I truly believe this is another example of when the beliefs that bounce around the echo chamber of Literotica are not remotely representative of real life.

While I don't doubt there are younger women who are attracted to older men, I find it remarkable how so many older guys here on Lit are quick to mistake ANY sort of kindness from every younger woman as an indication of sexual interest. At least that is what I gather from the related threads.

I've seen this take place with my own friends. ..We go to a Starbucks and the attractive young woman behind the counter compliments my friends Minnesota Vikings Jersey, and the first thing he says as we sit down with our coffee is, "Did you hear that? I think she wants to fuck me." ..I laugh and say something like, "Um, no, she just likes your shirt, you idiot. . And because you're so damn old she didn't think you'd misconstrue her compliment. But apparently, you did." Sheesh.. the shit women have to deal with.

 

[liqueur]

find it remarkable how so many older guys here on Lit are quick to mistake ANY sort of kindness from every younger woman as an indication of sexual interest

Yes, this. I see it here; it's absolutely rampant on FetLife; and yes, I see it in real life as well.

 

[Noor]

Yes, this. I see it here; it's absolutely rampant on FetLife; and yes, I see it in real life as well.

You raise another interesting subject - this idea that most young women are sexually interested in much older men. I truly believe this is another example of when the beliefs that bounce around the echo chamber of Literotica are not remotely representative of real life.

While I don't doubt there are younger women who are attracted to older men, I find it remarkable how so many older guys here on Lit are quick to mistake ANY sort of kindness from every younger woman as an indication of sexual interest. At least that is what I gather from the related threads.

I've seen this take place with my own friends. ..We go to a Starbucks and the attractive young woman behind the counter compliments my friends Minnesota Vikings Jersey, and the first thing he says as we sit down with our coffee is, "Did you hear that? I think she wants to fuck me." ..I laugh and say something like, "Um, no, she just likes your shirt, you idiot. . And because you're so damn old she didn't think you'd misconstrue her compliment. But apparently, you did." Sheesh.. the shit women have to deal with.

Having lived all over the country, I find Minnesota men able to misconstrue anything as sexual interest, so much so that women don’t say much that that isn’t required to guys here and you’re correct, women are less careful with older guys.
There are some older men who are nice on Lit, and perhaps there are women who prefer those who are older merely for their age, but I doubt it’s very many.
A man being older here doesn’t mean he’s not a player, a jerk, pretending to be single, owner of numerous alts, trustworthy, or that he has any particular value in being older, unless a woman is looking for a daddy figure.

 

[BillyWalrus]

I never pretend to be anything other than what I am. An old grandfather devoted to his Filipina trans woman. Of course I only get spam messages but that's fine!

 

[lil_jenni]

To clarify, I have met older men I have found attractive. But those are exceptions for me, and it is likely despite their age, not because of it. And I think that at some point in their lives, many women probably have been attracted to an older man or two, but that age is probably not the determining factor in such attraction.

On The other hand, I have a friend (who is the same age as me) who dates almost exclusively older men, and has as long as I have known her. And although the age gap itself varies, her current preference seems to be for men at least ten years older than she is. So for her, the age is a big part of the attraction. But I do not believe such age based attraction is anywhere near as prevalent as one might think from posts on Lit.

The same is true of the Daddy Dom/baby girl dynamic. More power to those who find it fulfilling, but I think it is vastly overrepresented on Lit. And I think that vast over representation leads some wannabe Doms to think most, if not all, female subs want to have a Daddy Dom. Of course, faux Doms are one of the banes of this place, as they do not seem to be able to comprehend just because a woman identifies as a sub does not mean that woman will immediately, or ever, want to be their sub.

 

[SirenInTheNight]

I was pretty fired up yesterday (kids waking one up early on New Year's Day will do that), so I decided not to respond to this. But it's still bugging today when I'm not in a mood that would make folks think red is my natural hair color, so...

The above is confirmation bias bullshit. Porn-minded men come to Lit and see a porn site, then they question why women would be here because porn is geared toward men, and then they assume the women here (especially the ones who don't conform to the sexual norms that society tries to impose on women) must not be women at all. QED.

But wait. Some folks don't see Lit as a "porn" site in the way porn-minded men mean porn. We see it as an erotica site. And news flash guys -- women consume a fucking shit ton of erotica. Have any of y'all read bodice ripping type romance novels? They aren't fucking romance. They are erotica. And it is a fucking huge industry, growing when the rest of publishing is shrinking. And why? Because women consume a fucking shit ton of erotica.

And there is a lot of erotica on Lit that does not grade to "porn" in the way porn-minded men use that term. Sure, sometimes finding it takes wading through porn, but it is there. And moreover, sometimes some women actually like more hardcore erotica (let's call it porn ), some of which is made by women for women (and for men too). Sure it's not the standard, but it exists. Also, there are some wonderful curators of the female erotica/porn aesthetic, visual and literary, on Lit.

Or put another way, Lit is not just a fucking porn site unless you came here to find porn and ignore all the less "porny" erotica on here.

And another thing... a significant subset of the "all the girls on lit are dudes" crowd seem to be operating on a rather misogynistic level. Namely, that women don't like 'X', wherever X is the thing the guys likes that the women in his life may not like, and therefore women who say they like X are dudes unless proven otherwise with pics, preferably nudes. Well, guess what? Many women like a lot of things that they aren't "supposed" to like. They may not like it at every point in their life and with every partner. Or, they may have just never liked it with you (this is the generic use of "you", not the particular, so be calm easily offended guys who are going to gasp and say, "not all men" or the like). But most women are much more interested in sex than guys think. Hence, the massive industry that is women's erotica.

Okay. Rant over... for now.

You go girl !

 

[AG31]

While I agree that many people are likely more sexual then they let on, and many folks may be kinier than we ever imagine, I do not believe that most people have fetishized kinks they way those seem to manifest on Lit. For example, for a brief period of time in my early marriage, rough/consensual non-consent (CNC) sex was becoming fetishized for me because I was having trouble achieving climax without it. I worked on that with my husband and my therapist, and I was able to get past that to the point it went back to being a kink, albeit a pretty compelling one... when I want it, I can start obsessing. However, I do not think that CNC as a true fetish (i.e. required for sexual satisfaction) is common, and even if it is more common than I think, I doubt it is as common as it might seem in the echo chamber if Lit.

And that leads me to respond to another comment above, the one about the regularization of nonconsensual sex on Lit and other similar fora. This has concerned me for several years, all the more so now that I have daughters. And I know I'm part of the problem (re my above paragraph). For me, consensual CNC play is an important part of me sexual activities with my husband. If it doesn't happen relatively regularly, I start getting anxious and manic regarding it. It's less compulsive than it used to be, but it is still... compelling.

But I worry about messaging. I used to use the term "rape play". In fact, I overtly commented on not liking to use the term CNC. But after that comment, I received some of the creepiest messages I have ever received here. I now use CNC on here, and I also always qualify my comments about CNC to make sure people understand that I can engage in it with my Hubby because I trust him completely. And that trust is the heart of it, and probably why I started to fetishize it at one point.

Data show that a lot of women fantasize about CNC situations. Not the majority, but not an insignificant number. But that is not to say that all the significant number of women who fantasize about CNV situations want to go beyond fantasy. And even for those who do, there is a wide range of activities that can help realize those fantasies, from simply being held down during sex to full on CNC role play scenarios. And more importantly, of the women who fantasize about CNC situations, for all but maybe a fraction of a percent, the consensual part of CNC is necessary.

It is for me. I have been raped, and I have no fucking interest in it ever happening again. I have also been choked out during a truly violent encounter that I let get a little rough but that then got truly the fuck out of my control. I fought that asshole like hell, which is why he choked me out. So while I am fine giving up surface control to someone I trust, it is all about control for me. I know my husband will stop if I need him to, so I am ultimately in control of the situation. Also, and as importantly, I know he does this for me but he is not really into it, so he is in control of himself. I don't think I could let it get as intense as it can if both of those were not true. And it's never as intense as I could take, and that's a part of it too, because I always have a cushion. I

Is it healthy? Oh, my therapist and I have discussed that many a time. Let's just say it is probably not unhealthy as long as it is not necessary for me to achieve sexual satisfaction. And it is not. But that's not really my point, away from which I have wandered.

To get back to that point, I do worry about my proclivities impacting other people because some folks might take my comments as normalizing true nonconsensual activities. That's why I always try to include qualifiers and explain myself. I have pondered not talking about it here, but as I have said many a time in many a thread here, Lit is my outlet for those thoughts and ideas and drives that are difficult to engage in the real world without there being consequences. I've even cut down on my real world exhibitionism (you know, dressing revealingly to go grocery shopping at a store many miles from where I live) because the feelings of danger are threatening to overwhelm the feelings of satisfaction (also, my body has not sprung back from having twins as well as it did from my first pregnancy, but that is an ancillary issue, not the main issue). So, being here, my place for literary exhibitionism, is important to me, and it's important to me that I am able to express my proclivities, because that's what helps relieve the buildup of tension, but I do worry.

Thanks for this! Insightful on many levels.

 

[AG31]

Since this thread has awakened, I'll add that that there seem to be fewer gay men than I would expect, at least over in AH, where I spend most of my time. I'm not talking about BI men, just plain old GM. Since KeithD died, I don't recall bumping into a single one. Are there any here in Fetish & Sexuality?

 

[EvaLane]

Since this thread has awakened, I'll add that that there seem to be fewer gay men than I would expect, at least over in AH, where I spend most of my time. I'm not talking about BI men, just plain old GM. Since KeithD died, I don't recall bumping into a single one. Are there any here in Fetish & Sexuality?

I wonder if, similar to women, their fantasy-sex lives are “easier” to fulfill than the average straight/bi man, leading to a lack of representation here on Lit.

I’ve always had the mindset that someone actually living the life would have very little interest in meandering around here with the woulda’s/coulda’s/shoulda’s crowd.

 

[SalaciousMonkey22]

I’ve always had the mindset that someone actually living the life would have very little interest in meandering around here with the woulda’s/coulda’s/shoulda’s crowd.

Brutal.

 

[YourSecretDesires]

Most people behind closed doors have some kind of kink, even if they keep it to themselves.

As for men impersonating women here, I have no problem with it. It's usually pretty obvious, and really who cares. First, this place is for playing out fantasies. If two parties have fun chatting, that's great. Second, since gender can be fluid IRL it certainly can be online. Choosing to be female on a site like this is just one of many types of sexual exploration.

You can get indignant that it's dishonest but again - this is online. Nothing here is necessarily real.

I've done it in the past, I admit, not here but elsewhere. It was fulfilling and erotic to me to have a female "persona" and chat with men. I did note that some men are either pathetic (no game) or creepy, but some were cool. I have no qualms about it and it taught me a lot about what real females experience in spaces like that.

I do miss the old days here when it was more of a balance between men and women, but other apps and techs have pilfered would-be users. If a woman can make $ on OnlyFans I totally get why she wouldn't be on an old fashioned forum like Lit.

 

[EvaLane]

If a woman can make $ on OnlyFans I totally get why she wouldn't be on an old fashioned forum like Lit.

I can’t speak for other women here but I prefer philanthropy work

 

[liqueur]

Men are five to ten times more sexual than women

WTF world do you live in?

. So, Lit does actually reflect the real world. It’s mostly a bunch of horny men looking to have contact with one of the few females present.

Sounds to me like you're describing your own sad predicament.

 

[Maya_Vakker]

I think men are far more interested in porn than women which accounts for the fact that there are very few women here. The type of man who is interested in porn is older than the rest of the population so again it is not representative. Of course there are some people who are here for other reasons but they are few in number.

I wouldn’t agree with this as a blanket statement.

I think women as interested in porn or more so, different forms of auto erotica that I would consider pornographic. Smut books are a real thing and dang are they popular. They have moved way past the days of the Fabio book cover genre.

A few things to think about: Is watching porn normalized for women, or even casually permissive? Is it socially acceptable for women to explore sexuality? Is it safe for women to express sexuality?

Would it be amazing if it was ok!

I do agree with you that the population on here is not representative.

 

[Maya_Vakker]

Don’t be so sure. I won’t say I know of anyone specific on Lit, but I absolutely know online spaces where women pretend to be men in order to dodge unwanted attention. This would seem to be exactly the kind of place where a move like that is called for.

I’m not a gamer, but online gaming fits this description. I know a few women in there 20’s who create online profile and label themselves as male so they don’t have to deal with the tech-bro culture, apparently it’s very toxic.

But then again I’ve heard that MMORPG actual stands for, Many men online role playing girls.

 

[Maya_Vakker]

The above is confirmation bias bullshit. Porn-minded men come to Lit and see a porn site, then they question why women would be here because porn is geared toward men, and then they assume the women here (especially the ones who don't conform to the sexual norms that society tries to impose on women) must not be women at all. QED.

But wait. Some folks don't see Lit as a "porn" site in the way porn-minded men mean porn. We see it as an erotica site. And news flash guys -- women consume a fucking shit ton of erotica. Have any of y'all read bodice ripping type romance novels? They aren't fucking romance. They are erotica. And it is a fucking huge industry, growing when the rest of publishing is shrinking. And why? Because women consume a fucking shit ton of erotica.


Okay. Rant over... for now.

Love this! I was just making this same point. I guess I should have read the entire thread before jumping in the pool.

I’m convinced men are their own worst enemies.

 

[SexyInMy60s]

Love this! I was just making this same point. I guess I should have read the entire thread before jumping in the pool.

I’m convinced men are their own worst enemies.

Nailed it.