I believe you,

Last words from me on this

I have received many pms on this issue, and am tired of saying the same things over and over again, so I'll say it once, here. I thought of doing it in its own thread, but there's more than enough about this hoohaa already.

First: Why did I start the thread?

I was worried. I saw what I thought was manipulation of my friends. I also saw someone I thought in need of help, but the kind of help we give (the compassion and care and support) in this case could do more harm than good.

I also saw a whisper campaign developing. I was party to a small portion of that. I saw people posting one thing in open forum, and saying another, totally different thing in pm. And I thought that was wrong and unfair to the person being spoken about.

Yes, I did think long and hard about how Christabel would feel about it. I could only use my own feelings as a gauge - and I would want to know. That people continued to support me, knowing I could be faking would strengthen me. That people thought I could be faking would be amusing, knowing how off the wall this malady has been.

But to find out later that all the wonderful people supporting me publicly, really thought I was a fake and a fraud and were only doing it to keep up appearances - that would hurt profoundly, and unhealingly.

Second: Why am I leaving?

I'm still not sure I am leaving totally. But I am pulling back. Not because people disagreed or were nasty about it. I expected that. You can't bring up any controversial issue here without it going to hell in a handbasket. I'm a big girl and I knew what I was getting myself into.

What I didn't expect was the large support for the notion that it IS better publicly support and privately knife in the back and that anything else is poor form, and downright rude.

Obviously I don't agree with that, or I would not have begun the thread that started all this in the first place and opened myself up to the slings and arrows of outraged forumites.

As far as I see, public support with private denigration is a great way to undermine the forum. It certainly erodes trust in each other. It is not adult, it's teenage-juvenile and shows a lack of moral courage. That some of those who advocate it are some of the forumites I thought the most sincere and honest and strong here is profoundly unsettling.

That is why I am pulling out.

Finally, to those who paint me as some kind of evil, hatefilled monster for attacking Christabel: go back and actually read the first post of that thread.

I handled it poorly, I admit. I stupidly posted late in my day and was sleeping when I should've been directing traffic on the thread. I can't change that.

To anyone who waded through this entire post, Thank you. Be happy, be safe and my the next story you write be all you hoped and dreamed when you began.
 
I have received many pms on this issue, and am tired of saying the same things over and over again, so I'll say it once, here. I thought of doing it in its own thread, but there's more than enough about this hoohaa already.

First: Why did I start the thread?

I was worried. I saw what I thought was manipulation of my friends. I also saw someone I thought in need of help, but the kind of help we give (the compassion and care and support) in this case could do more harm than good.

I also saw a whisper campaign developing. I was party to a small portion of that. I saw people posting one thing in open forum, and saying another, totally different thing in pm. And I thought that was wrong and unfair to the person being spoken about.

Yes, I did think long and hard about how Christabel would feel about it. I could only use my own feelings as a gauge - and I would want to know. That people continued to support me, knowing I could be faking would strengthen me. That people thought I could be faking would be amusing, knowing how off the wall this malady has been.

But to find out later that all the wonderful people supporting me publicly, really thought I was a fake and a fraud and were only doing it to keep up appearances - that would hurt profoundly, and unhealingly.

Second: Why am I leaving?

I'm still not sure I am leaving totally. But I am pulling back. Not because people disagreed or were nasty about it. I expected that. You can't bring up any controversial issue here without it going to hell in a handbasket. I'm a big girl and I knew what I was getting myself into.

What I didn't expect was the large support for the notion that it IS better publicly support and privately knife in the back and that anything else is poor form, and downright rude.

Obviously I don't agree with that, or I would not have begun the thread that started all this in the first place and opened myself up to the slings and arrows of outraged forumites.

As far as I see, public support with private denigration is a great way to undermine the forum. It certainly erodes trust in each other. It is not adult, it's teenage-juvenile and shows a lack of moral courage. That some of those who advocate it are some of the forumites I thought the most sincere and honest and strong here is profoundly unsettling.

That is why I am pulling out.

Finally, to those who paint me as some kind of evil, hatefilled monster for attacking Christabel: go back and actually read the first post of that thread.

I handled it poorly, I admit. I stupidly posted late in my day and was sleeping when I should've been directing traffic on the thread. I can't change that.

To anyone who waded through this entire post, Thank you. Be happy, be safe and my the next story you write be all you hoped and dreamed when you began.

I appreciate your honesty in this Starr. I'll admit, some of the things you said confused me, and just didn't sound like you. I'm glad it was a misunderstanding on my part, and I'm glad you came forward with this. :)

Well, I know I have some closure now. :p

*hugs* :rose:
 
Don't be away long starr. :kiss:

I, for one, will miss you. :(
 
I was worried. I saw what I thought was manipulation of my friends. I also saw someone I thought in need of help, but the kind of help we give (the compassion and care and support) in this case could do more harm than good.


As I said in private, I never doubted your intentions to be anything but kind and good. :rose:
 
Some people are saying can't we just let this thing die (while still getting in a last few snarky comments among the threads) :rose:

Since this was aimed at me, I would like to point out that the comment in question was only another attempt to ask that we all move on by pointing out that Odessa had. I believe Sarahh and I have worked that out ourselves now.
 
For my part, I received no PMs at all until I had posted a "maybe me too" to Starrkers's thread--and then I received a few PMs, all saying "me too." Athough I scanned the "Odessa" thread for several days, increasingly thinking "this smells like three-day-old fish and doesn't add up right" based on my profesisonal propaganda analysis training, I said nothing, as I didn't really know Christabel. And I only said anything because Starrkers was brave enough to interject a "you might want to stop and think" entirely separate thread.

The question was posed and I agreed--although I wasn't sure for a bit that we were talking about the same thread--and so I stated as much.

All I thought it needed was a warning shot and then for folks to decide for themselves. This was out of concern for the general board, because I've seen these scams run before. I was harried and goaded into saying more--and then harried and goaded even more when I answered honestly.

My personal position is that enabling doesn't solve any problem and only broadens the problem and adds side problems (which, I think, it has here). I don't think ignoring the possibility it is happening or covering it up with kum-ba-yah (thanks for that term, Impressive) mumbo jumbo helps either. I wouldn't have minded if those preferring to genuinely believe or to take the enabling role had just said they did and then we just continued business as usual. But they didn't do so--they wanted to continue to bleed over it and beat on those who wouldn't knuckle under to them (and, in fact, still seem to want to do so to ridiculous lengths--which, of course, is also normal Internet chat board dynamics; it's fun to bleed over these things on Internet boards).

The "Odessa" thread could just have continued with everyone living the soap opera--neither Starrkers nor I nor anyone else took this matter to that thread--but "Odessa" herself soured that thread by taking the matter there. So, that issue can be laid at her feet. You can even start it up again. All anyone at all wanted to do was to raise a little flag to get the attention of your self-preservation genes.

It's your choice what to believe. It's your choice to keep on ragging on it too, if you like, but you will only do so because you enjoy picking at the scab (as noted up the line). But if you think hammering away at your belief choices affect me, you're spitting upwind.

For me, I still think it's a fraud and Internet game and shouldn't be rewarded/pandered to beyond an "oh, that's too bad." But I don't care if you think otherwise--or even if it continues now that the possibilities of what is going on have been introduced in the open. We do so love our drama here.

Like Starrkers, though, I don't believe in or feed whisper campaigns--or double-facing between public and private statements.

So, shall we drop it, or do you want to wallow more?
 
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....As far as I see, public support with private denigration is a great way to undermine the forum. It certainly erodes trust in each other. It is not adult, it's teenage-juvenile and shows a lack of moral courage. That some of those who advocate it are some of the forumites I thought the most sincere and honest and strong here is profoundly unsettling...
In view of your unsettlement, here's hoping that your respect for these honest, sincere and strong forumites causes you to re-inspect your beliefs. Because they just might know something important.

Privately expressing one's qualms about a situation is not the same as a "knife in the back." You could have said something to the knifers-- in that private discussion. moreover, you didn't post about knives in the back, you posted that there was a big fake going on. Calling people hypocrites because they were willing to express concern even while they had reservations about the situation is insulting to everyone concerned-- and disengenuous after the fact.

A far more calamitous example of how speaking up can make a situation much worse;

Sen. Charles Schumer on Sunday defended himself against claims by regulators that he was partially to blame for a run on IndyMac Bancorp Inc. that led to the bank's takeover by the government Friday.

At a news conference Sunday, the New York Democrat deflected blame cast upon him by regulators for causing a run on the bank that saw depositors withdraw more than $1.3 billion during the 11 days after Schumer released a letter about the possible risks of IndyMac failing.
 
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In view of your unsettlement, here's hoping that your respect for these honest, sincere and strong forumites causes you to re-inspect your beliefs. Because they just might know something important.

More likely my beliefs will cause me to reinspect my level of respect.
 
Starrkers, If we all manage to stop and think and learn something from this experience, in some way it will be a positive thing.
 
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