I Feel Like Starting An Argument: Writing a fanfiction based on ANY story you've ever read is perfectly fine***

[ElectricBlue]

This site has a category "Celebrities and Fanfiction"

If you think that borrowing intellectual property is wrong, you should complain.

Just because there a slot for it doesn't make it right. Clearly, it comes down to personal ethics as a writer. You either have a set, or you don't.

But I see, its "borrowing" now - what, it gets given back? But only when you get busted?

You said it up above - without permission, "stealing" is the correct word.

But hey, you've got seventy years to wait, after an author's death. Plenty of time to write something original, don't you think? You've got your own imagination, you don't need to spawn off anyone else. That's the bit I get least of all, "writers" with no originality. That's just odd, to me. Write your own damn story!

 

[SimonDoom]

The Site should provide more guidance on this issue and resolve it once and for all.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

The Site should provide more guidance on this issue and resolve it once and for all.

Or let people be free to exercise their own morals, because again really, no one is getting hurt.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

"I don't want

Using it, while admitting my story is a fan work?

Yep. 100% I have no shame in this.

If I write a story, and then later on they find it and hate it, how does what I've done hurt them? It doesn't.

How could it? How could it possibly hurt them?

"OH NO! SOMEONE WROTE A STORY BASED ON MINE, BECAUSE THEY LOVED MY STORY, AND THEY USED ALL MY CHARACTERS! AND I DON'T LIKE THE STORY! NOW I AM GOING TO DIE FROM
nothing... actually. I'm fine because I haven't been hurt in any way."

I am all about nuances tonight. I want to add some.
Most fanfic is harmless. It doesn't really hurt anybody. It gives some readers joy because they can enjoy more stories about the characters/universe they love. That's all good.
Fanfic is also plagiarism whether people want to admit it or not. And I don't mean nor do I care about the legal part of it. I mean the moral part. Don't get me wrong, you might not have any financial gain from that fanfic and you might credit the original author fully and in bold and caps and you can be satisfied with that. But...
Let's take well-known franchises for starters. Do you really think that all the people who like consuming, say, Star Wars content, would always know when reading some fanfic Star Wars story of yours which parts were created by the original author's imagination and which parts are your creation? All of them? No fucking way. It's inevitable that you will get credited for something that wasn't your creation by a part of the readership. Especially if you start writing some long stories/series and it becomes hard to distinguish your own content from the one that existed as they become intertwined. That part is not okay. In the mind of at least a part of the readership, you will end up receiving credit for something that the original author created.
And things get much worse once you move from the really well-known franchises towards those that are less known.

There are nuances to everything, so while fanfic is mostly okay and harmless, it is not completely okay. it's all about if you can live with that not-okay part or not. Once again, I am not talking about the legal part but the moral one.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

You said it up above - without permission, "stealing" is the correct word.

Nah. It isn't stealing, because nothing is lost.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Just because there a slot for it doesn't make it right. Clearly, it comes down to personal ethics as a writer. You either have a set, or you don't.

Easy now, nothing below the belt.

Just because we disagree on this ethical issue doesn't mean I don't have a set of personal ethics! Mine just differ from yours.

To imply I don't have personal ethics would be... well, dishonest and unethical, to be honest

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The Site should provide more guidance on this issue and resolve it once and for all.

I believe this thread was about our own moral compass in respect to fanfic and not about Lit rules. In that sense, I couldn't care less where Laurel sets her limits.
Clearly, if this was about Lit rules, there would be no need for all this talk. Laurel's rules, whether we like them or not, would be all that mattered.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Fanfic is also plagiarism whether people want to admit it or not.

NO! WRONG!

This is the part where you are straight up incorrect.

Plagiarism is:

"Presenting work or ideas from another source as your own, with or without consent of the original author, by incorporating it into your work without full acknowledgement." ~ Oxford University

Fanfiction is technically copyright violation, but it is not plagiarism

 

[AwkwardlySet]

NO! WRONG!

This is the part where you are straight up incorrect.

Plagiarism is:

"Presenting work or ideas from another source as your own, with or without consent of the original author, by incorporating it into your work without full acknowledgement." ~ Oxford University

Fanfiction is technically copyright violation, but it is not plagiarism

Read the rest of my post. It becomes plagiarism even against your wishes by the simple fact that readers won't be able to completely distinguish your own content from the original, especially if you start writing some elaborate fanfic series.

 

[Plathfan]

Because I shouldn't have to. The absence of a "don't use my work" sign on my door does not give others permission to use my work.

We also don't have to lock the door or use alarm systems and security cameras, but we do it anyway out of caution.

As I see it, some not only avoid putting up that sign on the door but deliberately leave it open, secretly hoping that years from now, when they are not around to give permission, someone will open that door...

No. Bill's work is in the public domain and has been for some time.

Being in the public domain is irrelevant here, as this is an ethics debate, not a legal one. By your logic, since you haven't gotten Bill's permission, you shouldn't use it... EVER!

 

[Bamagan]

This site has a category "Celebrities and Fanfiction"

If you think that borrowing intellectual property is wrong, you should complain.

Having that as a category is not inherently problematic, for three main reasons.
1) There are many works in the public domain that may be 'borrowed' or 'raped' or whatever other loaded term one chooses to use in reference to their use or exploitation as a source for new derivative works.
2) There are works of popular media where some degree of open license exists for the purposes of creating additional content related to that property, albeit often within guidelines that may specifically exclude pornography.
3) There are some people who have expressed willingness or eagerness to allow derivative works and have publicly given permission to do so (although in the case of Lit authors copying each other, I don't think the new stuff winds ups in that category very often, even if it arguably should).

There are also general exceptions for parodic use, and I suppose a case could be made that porn parodies of Star Wars (for example) are unlikely to be confused with legitimate materials, are targeted at a substantially different audience and therefore do minimal damage to the copyright holder, or are so absurd in comparison with the original content that anyone who could possibly mistake Princess Leia peeing on Chewbacca as an official part of the canon is hopelessly out of touch to begin with. I doubt that any serious lawyer would try to structure a defense to a charge of copyright infringement in such a way, but it would at least make for an entertaining day at court.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Having that as a category is not inherently problematic, for three main reasons.
1) There are many works in the public domain that may be 'borrowed' or 'raped' or whatever other loaded term one chooses to use in reference to their use or exploitation as a source for new derivative works.
2) There are works of popular media where some degree of open license exists for the purposes of creating additional content related to that property, albeit often within guidelines that may specifically exclude pornography.
3) There are some people who have expressed willingness or eagerness to allow derivative works and have publicly given permission to do so (although in the case of Lit authors copying each other, I don't think the new stuff winds ups in that category very often, even if it arguably should).

There are also general exceptions for parodic use, and I suppose a case could be made that porn parodies of Star Wars (for example) are unlikely to be confused with legitimate materials, are targeted at a substantially different audience and therefore do minimal damage to the copyright holder, or are so absurd in comparison with the original content that anyone who could possibly mistake Princess Leia peeing on Chewbacca as an official part of the canon is hopelessly out of touch to begin with. I doubt that any serious lawyer would try to structure a defense to a charge of copyright infringement in such a way, but it would at least make for an entertaining day at court.

Wait, Leia didn't pee on Chewie in the original trilogy? I think I've been watching the wrong Star Wars...

 

[KeithD]

I believe this thread was about our own moral compass in respect to fanfic and not about Lit rules. In that sense, I couldn't care less where Laurel sets her limits.
Clearly, if this was about Lit rules, there would be no need for all this talk. Laurel's rules, whether we like them or not, would be all that mattered.

I took this as being about Lit. stories, because that's how the OP framed it--if we got in the argument, the OP was going to fanfiction our stories. MediocreAuthor directly posted that me when I commented.

And after lots of rounds of MA being given the opportunity not to be sleazy and self-possessed about this and giving the opportunity/decency toward fellow authors a pass, I noted that, as applied to Lit., I was sure Laurel would obviate the issue by deleting any story claimed to be a swipe of another author here upon request. I know she would, because she's done it before. In fact, she's been so quick about just deleting with little or no evidence that it's given me heartburn to see it happen from time to time.

So, no real problem on Literotica.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Read the rest of my post. It becomes plagiarism even against your wishes by the simple fact that readers won't be able to completely distinguish your own content from the original, especially if you start writing some elaborate fanfic series.

Hmmm... Okay. Closely reading your post, I see what you mean, but I think that argument is a little shaky. Idk ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Maybe

 

[KeithD]

By your logic, since you haven't gotten Bill's permission, you shouldn't use it... EVER!

No, that's a misrepresentation of what was being pointed out. Shakespeare's works are in the public domain. They are up for grabs. They don't require use permission.

 

[Bamagan]

Wait, Leia didn't pee on Chewie in the original trilogy? I think I've been watching the wrong Star Wars...

What happens in Ord Mantell stays in Ord Mantell.

 

[Plathfan]

No, that's a misrepresentation of what was being pointed out. Shakespeare's works are in the public domain. They are up for grabs. They don't require use permission.

But if you're uncomfortable with the use of your work without your express permission, even after you're not around, why would you suddenly be comfortable with it just because the law allows it at some point?

Since when is an arbitrary law, subject to change at any moment, superior to the wishes of the creator?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I took this as being about Lit. stories, because that's how the OP framed it--if we got in the argument, the OP was going to fanfiction our stories. MediocreAuthor directly posted that me when I commented.

And after lots of rounds of MA being given the opportunity not to be sleazy and self-possessed about this and giving the opportunity/decency toward fellow authors a pass, I noted that, as applied to Lit., I was sure Laurel would obviate the issue by deleting any story claimed to be a swipe of another author here upon request. I know she would, because she's done it before. In fact, she's been so quick about just deleting with little or no evidence that it's given me heartburn to see it happen from time to time.

So, no real problem on Literotica.

Yeah, that part is very clear. Laurel does remove such stories on the original author's request and that's all that needs to be said about it. The topic is an interesting one in a more general way, so I expanded on it. I believe that the moral nuances (not the legal ones - those are quite clear) are very interesting to ponder about.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Yeah, that part is very clear. Laurel does remove such stories on the original author's request and that's all that needs to be said about it. The topic is an interesting one in a more general way, so I expanded on it. I believe that the moral nuances (not the legal ones - those are quite clear) are very interesting to ponder about.

I made a joke about using KeithD's characters in a fanfic, (a continuation on the joke which began the thread) and he either didn't understand the obvious joke, or didn't bother to read my whole post.

Possibly both.

 

[KeithD]

But if you're uncomfortable with the use of your work without your express permission, even after you're not around, why would you suddenly be comfortable with it just because the law allows it at some point?

Since when is an arbitrary law, subject to change at any moment, superior to the wishes of the creator?

This doesn't address anything I've posted. But I will say that you (you specifically; MediocreAuthor specifically) can't speak for any other "you" on such a topic of this. The industry and the law say it's illegal, immoral, and unethical to violate copyright to the extent that's been identified. "You" don't really have a vote in that. There can always be a question of what violated copyright, of course. You also don't have a vote on whether a law is arbitrary or not. The law is the law.

 

[KeithD]

I made a joke about using KeithD's characters in a fanfic, (a continuation on the joke which began the thread) and he either didn't understand the obvious joke, or didn't bother to read my whole post.

Possibly both.

Yes, it couldn't have been a failed joke, right? And you had already been peddling the same sleazy position on another board on the same issue, so you started off behind the jackass eight ball on this as far as I was concerned. And you haven't changed.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

The industry and the law say it's illegal, immoral, and unethical to violate copyright to the extent that's been identified.

But obviously, Laurel thinks it's fine, right?

Celebrities & Fan Fiction Sex Stories

Any opinions on that?

 

[KeithD]

But obviously, Laurel thinks it's fine, right?

Celebrities & Fan Fiction Sex Stories

Any opinions on that?

No. I've twice posted that Laurel, if she remains consistent with past practice, will delete any story that a Lit. author claims to her is snatched from their already-posted story in any way.

I've twice posted that. Are you really just trolling here?

 

[MediocreAuthor]

No. I've twice posted that Laurel, if she remains consistent with past practice, will delete any story that a Lit. author claims to her is snatched from their already-posted story in any way.

I've twice posted that. Are you really just trolling here?

I don't think you understand me... once again.

I shared the link to the fanfiction category to point out that Laurel clearly does not find fanfiction "illegal, immoral, and unethical"

 

[AwkwardMD]

I originally misread this thread as a harmless bit of trolling. At this point, I think I was wrong, and I think I might have something to add.

There's a lot of entitlement on the pro-fan fiction side of this argument, and I say that as someone who has dabbled in some fan fiction. I don't know where the line is, and I was fully prepared for at least one of my submissions (the Star Wars one) to get rejected outright. I took the "Ask for forgiveness, not permission" route in publishing it (though it was worth the effort alone just to write it), and depending on the day I don't always feel great about it. I don't claim the right to be able to do what I did, but I sleep at night knowing no one has complained so far and I'll sleep at night if it gets pulled. I will survive if someone at Disney or Lucas (or whoever) doesn't like me.

The only reason this conversation has gone on this long is because a lot of people are not listening when MA keeps repeating that she could and would. This insistence on preserving a space to have the conversation about whether or not she can take your intellectual property is manifestly ludicrous. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Welcome to my ignore list.